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Limerick Student Protest
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shouldn't ye be IN college? and not skiving off to march down the street? seriously, what do people hope to achieve with these nonsense marches and protests!
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They're hoping to achieve no increase to fees as promised by labour before the election? Its all there in the poster.0
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I wont be making any friends by saying this as a student, but I think fee's should be reintroduced, on a loan base system, the current system leaves the 3rd level sector heavily underfunded and the current system is highly abused.
By introducing a loan base system that should be repaid once the student has graduated and has started earning would be a good solution to the current funding problem, while it would not help the budget deficit in the short run it is a solution that should at the very least be considered.
I guess it goes to show that I study economics...0 -
While I do think there should be some form of fee, I am all for the student's right to protest as well.
But would it not make more sense (and look more impressive) if all the colleges around Ireland, that have students who wish to protest of course, organised one massive protest outside the Dail in Dublin?
It would get far greater coverage in the national media and be a much greater show of intent than a number of much smaller protests in the various cities.
Are UL part of the protest? I only see three college names on the poster and UL is not one of them.0 -
Actually there has been one outside the Dail and Leinster house just last week and it did get a lot of media coverage, must of slipped by you but students from colleges all over Ireland attended. 3rd year in a row I believe.0
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They're hoping to achieve no increase to fees as promised by labour before the election? Its all there in the poster.
that was the first problem right there Z- election. promises.
no but seriously, when you organised the zombie festival, it was for a great cause, and it took MONTHS of planning, to bring a fun, lively event to limerick city that everyone young, old, anyone, could get involved in, and it was clear who the captive audience were and what your aims were and that they were achieved.
this "protest march", just seems like something that was hastily thrown together, it's target audience in dail eireann wont give a fiddlers, and it'll have just been a waste of time for the students as they'll have missed out on classes and so forth, and for what? to block up o' connell street in the middle of the day for a couple of hours?
as a former student of Carlow RTC, DIT Kevin St., and UL, i have plenty of experience of college and university life and the pressures many students are under, both financially AND academically. i appreciated the opportunity to attend further education simply because i paid my own way through college in a wide variety of part time and full time jobs.
i for one am in favour of college fees being reintroduced or subsequent ones being increased, because it'll weed out the students who actually WANT to be there, to further their education, from the ones that see it as one four year long excuse to party! ie- the ones who have to pay for their education, will want to make sure they're not squandering their money that they worked hard to earn.
i dont buy the argument that the reintroduction, or subsequent increase in current fees will be a deterrent to those tho are actually willing to put in the WORK required not just to attend higher level, but to actually excel and make the most of the opportunity while they're there. higher level education (especially the high standards in this country!), IS a privilege, and should NOT be a right afforded to every tom, dick, and harry.
it is a privilege that should be earned, and then those who are determined enough to make it into higher education, this determination and motivation to be better and to DO better for themselves, will stand to them in life, long after they have graduated.
tl;dr: not ANOTHER bloody excuse protest march!0 -
yeah, huge protest in dublin last week.0
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While I do think there should be some form of fee, I am all for the student's right to protest as well.
But would it not make more sense (and look more impressive) if all the colleges around Ireland, that have students who wish to protest of course, organised one massive protest outside the Dail in Dublin?
It would get far greater coverage in the national media and be a much greater show of intent than a number of much smaller protests in the various cities.
Are UL part of the protest? I only see three college names on the poster and UL is not one of them.
ULSU - University of Limerick Student Union, it's their poster.
This protest is to highlight Fee increases and cuts to the student maintenance grant, I personally have been cut 60% in funding which was a complete lie by the FG/Lab and they will do it again. I budgeted to return to college on the old level so it has caused hardship not only for me but lots of students are struggling to live and will drop out of college on to the Dole which will cost the government more money over time.
As for student loans the Government have said they will not support a student loan scheme back to a two tier society"the have and have nots"
"CAN'T PAY, WON'T PAY" !!!0 -
Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.0
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Just on the discussion of the fee's; IMHO I think that there should be no fee's for now, and when the economy actually decides to pick up and people have money, THEN Fees should be introduced, otherwise you are just deepening a debt that people can't afford.0
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XiledSniper wrote: »Just on the discussion of the fee's; IMHO I think that there should be no fee's for now, and when the economy actually decides to pick up and people have money, THEN Fees should be introduced, otherwise you are just deepening a debt that people can't afford.
Actually I think if you are talking about economic benefit then the nature of the course should also be taken into account. If a student does a course that is economically beneficial (e.g. Science, Engineering etc) then there is a strong argument that the fees should be waived perhaps provided the student commits to working in Ireland for a period of time after graduation. However if a student wants to do an Arts degree specialising on the impact of post modern feminist art in Uzbekistan popular literature then they can **** off and pay for that themselves. We'll be paying for them to sit on the dole long enough after they graduate.0 -
Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.
at least in fairness to the OP they gave us the heads up! :rolleyes:
and not wishing to further aggravate what is no doubt a frustrating situation for the OP, certainly not wishing to flame the thread, but:This protest is to highlight Fee increases and cuts to the student maintenance grant, I personally have been cut 60% in funding which was a complete lie by the FG/Lab and they will do it again.!!!
this is what politicians do, they make promises they know they wont keep, so they can be elected, people are worse to believe them, they never learned from previous lessons!I budgeted to return to college on the old level so it has caused hardship not only for me but lots of students are struggling to live
it's not just students, everyone has had to adjust their budgets, especially in the current economic climate, i have had to pay more taxes than i have in previous years, which i didnt expect, but now in january i shall have to adjust my budget again accordingly. i just don't know yet how the government is going to penalise self employed people.and will drop out of college on to the Dole which will cost the government more money over time.
first of all, dropping out of college and going on the dole? and that's the first option that comes to mind? seriously? cant get paid to go to college, so i'll get paid to sit on my bum instead! the only one this will affect in the long run is the students who choose to go down this route themselves, which i suspect are in a minority, most will try to get a second or in some cases if they're determined enough- a third, source of income.back to a two tier society"the have and have nots"
the haves because they worked for it, and the have nots because they chose to sit on their bums and resigned themselves to not wanting to better themselves.
you wont cost the government more money over time, it's not the government who will have to dig into their own pockets to support you, instead the government will just increase taxes or introduce new taxes, dipping into the pockets of the people that voted them in on the premise that they would introduce "no new taxes" (classic george bush quote!)."CAN'T PAY, WON'T PAY" !!!
cant pay, dont want to pay.
that is completely up to the individual, as i mentioned before, there are the minority that will adopt that mentality, but then there are those that like i said, will be determined enough to be passionate about doing better for themselves and will find ways and means to further their education, not letting something like a financial hurdle be the first thing that stops them.0 -
i cant believe the reception that you people are giving this topic
what a joke
farmers get upset about something they protest. joe public sits back and the general thought is "they have every right"
public servants have their pensions cut(they pay for their pensions now) and they protest. joe public thinks "they have every right"
students are told they have to fork out in some cases 4k a year(currently by the way) and are told the grants will be cut(the only source of income) and the student want to protest. joe public thinks "lazy drunken students"
seriously you people should maybe go back finish school and start actually thinking for yourselves for once instead of believing everything you read.
a couple of educational points for you.
- not all college studens have time to have the "college lifesyle" you describe
- not all college student are wasters who care about getting drunk and their next roide
- not all college sudents have time to work through college
- not all students have mammy and daddy to pay they way
- not all students can sell the car to fund college
thinking the above says more about you than the students and trust me there are so many angry things that i would like to say to a couple of you that i will not degrade myself by doing so but seriously grow up.
i am a architecture student. my fees are almost 4 grand a year in a 5 year course. then because im not living at home i have to pay 2800 a year on accomadation. 1k a year on transport 3k a year on food and about 2k a year on bills. then because of my course i have about 800 a year on suplies and about 200 a year on books. i need a laptop and a camera which costs another 800(for low budget)
that means for the duraton of my course i must pay €10,600 a year or €53k for the whole course.
because of my course im not able to work during college. in first year alone i was in colleg at 9 and until 9 most nights if not later when it was coming up to deadlines. now in second year im spending even longer in college. not because i choose to(im not exactly the head to books student) but if i dont spend the time in college(up to 60 hours a week by the way) then ill fail. during the summers i try to get work but the fact is i need to do internships to get experience and make connecions.
so for those not keeping up. i have a bill of €53k and no way to pay it as id have no grant and cant work.
the fact is this is your actual typical student. not the drunken mess you may think.
being in college is like on the job training for most. if you where on the job training you woudnt expect to have to pay for it.
get your facts straight and grow up. support instead of actually being the problem0 -
this "protest march", just seems like something that was hastily thrown together, it's target audience in dail eireann wont give a fiddlers, and it'll have just been a waste of time for the students as they'll have missed out on classes and so forth, and for what? to block up o' connell street in the middle of the day for a couple of hours?
as a former student of Carlow RTC, DIT Kevin St., and UL, i have plenty of experience of college and university life and the pressures many students are under, both financially AND academically. i appreciated the opportunity to attend further education simply because i paid my own way through college in a wide variety of part time and full time jobs.
i for one am in favour of college fees being reintroduced or subsequent ones being increased, because it'll weed out the students who actually WANT to be there, to further their education, from the ones that see it as one four year long excuse to party! ie- the ones who have to pay for their education, will want to make sure they're not squandering their money that they worked hard to earn.
i dont buy the argument that the reintroduction, or subsequent increase in current fees will be a deterrent to those tho are actually willing to put in the WORK required not just to attend higher level, but to actually excel and make the most of the opportunity while they're there. higher level education (especially the high standards in this country!), IS a privilege, and should NOT be a right afforded to every tom, dick, and harry.
it is a privilege that should be earned, and then those who are determined enough to make it into higher education, this determination and motivation to be better and to DO better for themselves, will stand to them in life, long after they have graduated.
tl;dr: not ANOTHER bloody excuse protest march!
of course your in favour of bringing in fees. as youve stated youve been to your fair share of colleges. your the type of student that you seem to be disliking so much.
why should it be a privilage?? if i was startin in mcdonalds tommorrow would i have to pay for my training??
not all of us can just struggle through the financial hardship
sometimes when a person says "i cant afford it" they actually mean "im f##king broke and im about to starve because i do not have 1 euro for bread or a tin of beans"
thereis no exadgeration here. ive seen first hand students tat go some weeks not knowing wher they are going to get money for food from.Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.
this is pathetic. as ive stated not all students have this mindset.
yes there are the yound 18/19 year olds that can go a bit wild now that they arent living at home any more and dont seem to feel they have any shakles but we are not all like that.
im a student who when i can afford to likes to go for a few pints with my mates. i dont like student nights personally or studentsfor that mater but thats another issue:)
student work hard. alot might spend 17-25 hours a week in actual class. then another 10-15 hours a week doing college work. they are doing the same 40 hour a week you are. except they are not getting paid and they are alot more stressed. so if they wanna blow off steam every so ofetn fine let them. i have no problem with them out as long as they behave. but as i said not all students can go out.
from my experience first hand most of the pople who complain about drunken student ar usually the ones hammered on a friday saturday night inside smyths or nancys
off the high horses mates0 -
No I don't. I think they are wrong also. It's just here we are talking about students. Go visit the Irish Economy section of boards.Icky Thump wrote: »
farmers get upset about something they protest. joe public sits back and the general thought is "they have every right"
public servants have their pensions cut(they pay for their pensions now) and they protest. joe public thinks "they have every right"
I have a Bachelors degree in Engineering (pre-free fees) and a Masters in Science (part time so no grant/free fees). All paid for by myself and it didn't ruin my life having to do so. It just limited my ability to socialise.Icky Thump wrote: »seriously you people should maybe go back finish school and start actually thinking for yourselves for once instead of believing everything you read.
You say not all. I say sure "not all" but many if not most can. The handful of exceptions should not drive the expensive rule for all.Icky Thump wrote: »a couple of educational points for you.
- not all college studens have time to have the "college lifesyle" you describe
- not all college student are wasters who care about getting drunk and their next roide
- not all college sudents have time to work through college
- not all students have mammy and daddy to pay they way
- not all students can sell the car to fund college
Did you even look at the news before you decided to do a course with no jobs. There have been no jobs in architecture for the past 5 years or more. Why on earth do you think the taxpayer has a duty to pay for you to scribble a few lines on a piece of paper?Icky Thump wrote: »i am a architecture student. my fees are almost 4 grand a year in a 5 year course. then because im not living at home i have to pay 2800 a year on accomadation. 1k a year on transport 3k a year on food and about 2k a year on bills. then because of my course i have about 800 a year on suplies and about 200 a year on books. i need a laptop and a camera which costs another 800(for low budget)
No it means you will be paying €4000 a year or €20,000 over the 5 years of the course. All of the other bits and pieces you added into the bill are lifestyle related and you'll be paying that (and possibly far more) if you left college. Life in school may have been free because Mammy and Daddy were picking up the tab but as an adult life outside college is not free.Icky Thump wrote: »that means for the duraton of my course i must pay €10,600 a year or €53k for the whole course.
So I suggest you do a course that has employment prospects during and more importantly after college. Seriously though if you are doing 12 hours a day just to keep up in first year you really need to ask yourself if you are cut out for this career. First year is only the introduction. It will be 10 times harder by the end. Perhaps there are other things you would enjoy, which you would find easier and which would be more beneficial to the economy than putting another Architect on the dole...Icky Thump wrote: »because of my course im not able to work during college. in first year alone i was in colleg at 9 and until 9 most nights if not later when it was coming up to deadlines. now in second year im spending even longer in college. not because i choose to(im not exactly the head to books student) but if i dont spend the time in college(up to 60 hours a week by the way) then ill fail. during the summers i try to get work but the fact is i need to do internships to get experience and make connecions.
so for those not keeping up. i have a bill of €53k and no way to pay it as id have no grant and cant work.
No it's not. In my experience college is nothing like on the job training. College gives you the theory. Real jobs give you the experience you need to know how to apply that theory. I have yet to hire a graduate who was job ready straight out of the box.Icky Thump wrote: »being in college is like on the job training for most. if you where on the job training you woudnt expect to have to pay for it.
I'm sorry but it is you who need to grow up and face reality. We can't afford to send everyone to college to do courses that will not prepare them for a job. We are not the problem. We are the people paying for the problem.Icky Thump wrote: »get your facts straight and grow up. support instead of actually being the problem0 -
XiledSniper wrote: »Just on the discussion of the fee's; IMHO I think that there should be no fee's for now, and when the economy actually decides to pick up and people have money, THEN Fees should be introduced, otherwise you are just deepening a debt that people can't afford.
there should never be fees!!!
i keep saying it but il say it again.
if i stat a job tommorrow in lets say Dell. they have to train me. not even Dell are going to charge m for my training.
college is training for your future career.
sure some people take the piss and study things that they dont really car aboutan basically plan on never using but its their right if it somthing that can be used.
its costing me 53k to get through college. that is alot of money to just magically find.
but when im qualified as an architect (hopefully) i will be generating alot of income that will be used as tax. i will also buy my house car and most likely setle down and start a family. the amount of money that i will end up ploughing into the country from this outcome im sure you can imagine its a great deal with the costs of startig up a family(wedding, kids, schools etc)
second outcome is i manage to get a job somewhere and end up making my 30k a year(good job) or end up making bad choices and not finding proper work and ending up on the dole.
surely me going through college would be the better outcome??
as i said it costs me 53k for college. if i have no fees then it costs me 33k. thats still alot of money but at least it helps a little???
say no to fees. while aome students CAN afford it. there are most who CAN NOTI wont be making any friends by saying this as a student, but I think fee's should be reintroduced, on a loan base system, the current system leaves the 3rd level sector heavily underfunded and the current system is highly abused.
By introducing a loan base system that should be repaid once the student has graduated and has started earning would be a good solution to the current funding problem, while it would not help the budget deficit in the short run it is a solution that should at the very least be considered.
I guess it goes to show that I study economics...
a loan system is a really bad idea. we should get students to college and then when they are finished we will hand them a bill and tell them that if they dont hurry then the intrest will rise......................... didnt bono and bob have some sort of night out about something like this???
i do however think that every student sould sign a contract going into college. if a student does not finish a year(sit the exams and have a significant attendance record) then they should pay for that year. if they drop out by novemberfair enough kids choose the wrong course and thats a mistake. if this happens there are the right ways of dropping out. but if someone is taking the piss and doesnt show up to college gets drunk all the time and doesnt even try to get into second year then yes they should have to pay for that year.
contracts would make it alot stricter and would give an employment feeling rather than the party personna joe public seems to have0 -
Icky Thump wrote: »of course your in favour of bringing in fees. as youve stated youve been to your fair share of colleges. your the type of student that you seem to be disliking so much.
why should it be a privilage?? if i was startin in mcdonalds tommorrow would i have to pay for my training??
not all of us can just struggle through the financial hardship
sometimes when a person says "i cant afford it" they actually mean "im f##king broke and im about to starve because i do not have 1 euro for bread or a tin of beans"
thereis no exadgeration here. ive seen first hand students tat go some weeks not knowing wher they are going to get money for food from.
this is pathetic. as ive stated not all students have this mindset.
yes there are the yound 18/19 year olds that can go a bit wild now that they arent living at home any more and dont seem to feel they have any shakles but we are not all like that.
im a student who when i can afford to likes to go for a few pints with my mates. i dont like student nights personally or studentsfor that mater but thats another issue:)
student work hard. alot might spend 17-25 hours a week in actual class. then another 10-15 hours a week doing college work. they are doing the same 40 hour a week you are. except they are not getting paid and they are alot more stressed. so if they wanna blow off steam every so ofetn fine let them. i have no problem with them out as long as they behave. but as i said not all students can go out.
from my experience first hand most of the pople who complain about drunken student ar usually the ones hammered on a friday saturday night inside smyths or nancys
off the high horses mates
At the lower end of your range 17+10 is 27. The upper extreme of your example is 25+15 = 40 so I assume if we apply a distribution to your figures most students are doing less than 40 hours.
Students are getting paid. They are getting fees, grants and what not to fund their lifestyle. Just because we don't give them a pay slip and they dont' pay tax on it does not mean they are not getting paid. Where do you think the money for them to "blow off a little steam".0 -
im not talking about the ability to socialise and from the sounds of it you where not the type of struggliong student i have been talking about.I have a Bachelors degree in Engineering (pre-free fees) and a Masters in Science (part time so no grant/free fees). All paid for by myself and it didn't ruin my life having to do so. It just limited my ability to socialise.
wow "many if most can"??? what did you pluck that theory from your head yea?? without getting angry:) im going to just sa that the public perception gives student a bad name. as i said its "not all" because im not going to make false claims and give a made up percentage.You say not all. I say sure "not all" but many if not most can. The handful of exceptions should not drive the expensive rule for all.
i cant evaluate every student and let you know if its most or none that can afford these fees. all im saying is everyone has a right to free education.
who gives you the right to question my career choice??Did you even look at the news before you decided to do a course with no jobs. There have been no jobs in architecture for the past 5 years or more. Why on earth do you think the taxpayer has a duty to pay for you to scribble a few lines on a piece of paper?
not that its any of your business but i am a 26 year old student who has been out of school for some time now and while im doing a course that i love and feel i want to be a success in i also know that that where the jobs will be in 7-10 years time(when my course is finished and become fully qualifies)
i have thought it through and i have faith that in 5 years the economy will either be recovering in such it means work will start picking up(if not ireland then somehwere in the world) and if the economy isnt picking up in 5 years then the choice of career will hardly matter because we will all be in trouble.
let me ask you one question.
what would you advise people to do in college??? computers..............????No it means you will be paying €4000 a year or €20,000 over the 5 years of the course. All of the other bits and pieces you added into the bill are lifestyle related and you'll be paying that (and possibly far more) if you left college. Life in school may have been free because Mammy and Daddy were picking up the tab but as an adult life outside college is not free.
yes thats 20k over 5 years on top of living expenses. living expenses are 33k over 5 years on a budget. as ive stated im 26 ive been out paying ren and bills im not under the impression that everything in life is free.
tell me how a student can afford 10k a year(fees and living) by working aswell as being in college??So I suggest you do a course that has employment prospects during and more importantly after college. Seriously though if you are doing 12 hours a day just to keep up in first year you really need to ask yourself if you are cut out for this career. First year is only the introduction. It will be 10 times harder by the end. Perhaps there are other things you would enjoy, which you would find easier and which would be more beneficial to the economy than putting another Architect on the dole...
well no offence intended but if i was doing engineering i wouldnt have to spend 12 hours a day in college.
there is the difference between continous assesmant and theory.
architecture is all hands on. projects all the time. each project can take a couple of weeks .
in any projectwe et our brief(what the client wants)
- we consider what is in the brief
- we come up with a concept and do some rough designs on what our concept is
- we do some designs based on our concept
- we do our concept models and experiment to see if the shape and the idea work and dont just look good
- we make our working drawings and plan our design
- we make our model which including the site would usually be A0 size(in paper terms)
- we do up our finished "art drawings" and setup our project layout to show the client(in this case the lecturer)
- we have a "crit" where we present our project to a group of people(usually the lecturers aswell as the class) and this is where everyone gets to question why you did what youve done and you must defend it
this is a project for an architect. its not theory and its not as simple as reading a book. it is time consuming and unless your not a successful engineer id hope you knew that already.No it's not. In my experience college is nothing like on the job training. College gives you the theory. Real jobs give you the experience you need to know how to apply that theory. I have yet to hire a graduate who was job ready straight out of the box.
as i said what im doing for example is not theory
last year i lived with a graphics student who like me had the same on the job experience not theory.
this year i live with a law student who again like me has the same on the job experience not theory.I'm sorry but it is you who need to grow up and face reality. We can't afford to send everyone to college to do courses that will not prepare them for a job. We are not the problem. We are the people paying for the problem.
as i said my carreer path is my choice. you may not have stuck with your(maybe you have and you just dont pay attention) but i have my plan of coming out the otherside of the reccesion with something worthwile as far as im concerned.
so again maybe you should grow up and have a think about your inaccurate claims before talking nonsense on a public forum0 -
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Icky Thump wrote: »so again maybe you should grow up and have a think about your inaccurate claims before talking nonsense on a public forum
Mod note: Calm it down, buddy. Just because ye don't agree doesn't mean ye can describe each other's opinions as nonsense.0 -
Was reading last night that circa 80% of State money/tax payers money that goes into education in Ireland goes towards wages, with only the remaining 20% towards facilities/projects/equipment etc.
So thanks to the Unions and the Croke park agreement there is very little that can be done to cut costs from that 80%.
Maybe students should, as well as protesting against the goverment, have a long hard look at how much of an effect that protected 80% has on things, and at how big a part various unions etc are playing in the fee arguement.
Actually it is a great example of how bloated and poorly run the public service side of things get run in this country when circa 80% of total income on a national level is needed for wages alone. If a company did that in the private sector it would not last too long and be called financially irresponsible.0 -
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At the lower end of your range 17+10 is 27. The upper extreme of your example is 25+15 = 40 so I assume if we apply a distribution to your figures most students are doing less than 40 hours.
Students are getting paid. They are getting fees, grants and what not to fund their lifestyle. Just because we don't give them a pay slip and they dont' pay tax on it does not mean they are not getting paid. Where do you think the money for them to "blow off a little steam".
yea id say alot of students are doing less than 40 hours
im not going to say "most" or "least" because i dont think its fair to guess
i and everyone in my course i can tell you is doing at least 60 hours a week.
students "some" get grants where their fees are paid. this is grand and this should happen. this just means they dont have to find 4k a year to pay the fees. thats not manoey in thier pocket thats money they didnt have to scrape together or put themselves in debt for in the first place.
students "some" ge the full grant which is worth about 5k a year. you tell me how anyone can live on 5k a year?? over 10 month(college year) thats 1k every two months or €500 a month. thats definitly achievable if you dont have rent, bills, food etc. alot of students who go out and party are student who are also working part time.
so on top of their 27-40 hours a week(not even going to mention students doing the 50-70 hours a week) they are al working part time.
so yes i do think blowing off a little steam is ok and these ar all future tax payers so saying that the tax payer is footing the bill is a government smear campaign used to help them justify the decisions.
te fat that the public have no support for the students is the exact reason why grants have been hit so hard. the reason that fees have risen so high.
the fact is that if you look at every section of society you will find over the last 10 years students have been hit more than anybody and joe public doesnt seem to give a s#it because it doesnt affect them0 -
its already been mentioned in the thread about farmers protesting if something happens and people saying they've every right. The difference is farmers dont go drinking 5 nights a week.I'm aware all students dont go drinking 5 nights a week but a lot do so until that is solved there not gonna get much sympathy from the ordinary joe.
If students want to make a point try growing up a little first, showing their responsible and falling around outside icon Sunday to thrusday isn't a way of showing it.
Basically rather than changing the governments mind about a potential policy try changing your own image then maybe you'll have more success. I'm out of college 2 years now and things have gotten worse if anything across the country however the one thing that hasn't changed is students who are always broke are always drunk.
Once again i'm fully aware not all students do this but a lot do0 -
Insect Overlord wrote: »Mod note: Calm it down, buddy. Just because ye don't agree doesn't mean ye can describe each other's opinions as nonsense.
im sure he thinks im talking nonsense aswell:) but piont takenWas reading last night that circa 80% of State money/tax payers money that goes into education in Ireland goes towards wages, with only the remaining 20% towards facilities/projects/equipment etc.
So thanks to the Unions and the Croke park agreement there is very little that can be done to cut costs from that 80%.
Maybe students should, as well as protesting against the goverment, have a long hard look at how much of an effect that protected 80% has on things, and at how big a part various unions etc are playing in the fee arguement.
Actually it is a great example of how bloated and poorly run the public service side of things get run in this country when circa 80% of total income on a national level is needed for wages alone. If a company did that in the private sector it would not last too long and be called financially irresponsible.
i think that is ahuge issue aswell that doesnt seem to get any light. im in college in waterford and we had a few "incidents" with our college president
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0512/1224296753474.html
he spent 100k alone on taxis between wateford and dublin(so much for 10 euro trains)0 -
Icky Thump wrote: »im sure he thinks im talking nonsense aswell:) but piont taken
i think that is ahuge issue aswell that doesnt seem to get any light. im in college in waterford and we had a few "incidents" with our college president
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0512/1224296753474.html
he spent 100k alone on taxis between wateford and dublin(so much for 10 euro trains)
It is an issue that seems to be ignored pretty much by student protests. The various unions must be delighted to see the students protesting against politicans imho as it takes the spotlight off other areas of spending that if they were managed in a prudent manner could possibly make the savings needed to avoid the need for fees or at the very least it could make a massive difference to the size of fee increase that got implemented.0 -
its already been mentioned in the thread about farmers protesting if something happens and people saying they've every right. The difference is farmers dont go drinking 5 nights a week.I'm aware all students dont go drinking 5 nights a week but a lot do so until that is solved there not gonna get much sympathy from the ordinary joe.
If students want to make a point try growing up a little first, showing their responsible and falling around outside icon Sunday to thrusday isn't a way of showing it.
Basically rather than changing the governments mind about a potential policy try changing your own image then maybe you'll have more success. I'm out of college 2 years now and things have gotten worse if anything across the country however the one thing that hasn't changed is students who are always broke are always drunk.
Once again i'm fully aware not all students do this but a lot do
alot do your right
but have you ever walked past icon on a friday or saturday night??? just as bad as a student night. the only difference is there isnt as many people. the issue is that the student population is so big its more noticable and its easier to label them as students rather than club goers.
while i agree whole heartedly that something needs to be done to make students more responsible i also think that alot of the responsiblit should be put on bar and club owners.
have you seen the some of the students going into these places??? they can barely walk going in never mind coming out!!!! if clubs and bars are willing to let extremly drunk people in then the strees will be fiulled with drunken behaviour. if bars and clubs didnt leave them in then they wouldnt be in town and they would stop getting that drunk before going to town.
as i said its the same to a lesser extent on fridays and saturdays its just that there isnt as many people around.
sure everyone finds a way of getting drink. usually it a 4 euro bottle of wine in tesco or any cheap crap they can get. its not like students are spending 200 quid on drink. hell i dont think i know many students that spend that in a month on drink and still go out alot. many of my mates who do go out might spend 20 quid a week at the most on drink and that includes a couple of pints0 -
Icky Thump wrote: »yea id say alot of students are doing less than 40 hours
im not going to say "most" or "least" because i dont think its fair to guess
i and everyone in my course i can tell you is doing at least 60 hours a week.
students "some" get grants where their fees are paid. this is grand and this should happen. this just means they dont have to find 4k a year to pay the fees. thats not manoey in thier pocket thats money they didnt have to scrape together or put themselves in debt for in the first place.
students "some" ge the full grant which is worth about 5k a year. you tell me how anyone can live on 5k a year?? over 10 month(college year) thats 1k every two months or €500 a month. thats definitly achievable if you dont have rent, bills, food etc. alot of students who go out and party are student who are also working part time.
so on top of their 27-40 hours a week(not even going to mention students doing the 50-70 hours a week) they are al working part time.
so yes i do think blowing off a little steam is ok and these ar all future tax payers so saying that the tax payer is footing the bill is a government smear campaign used to help them justify the decisions.
te fat that the public have no support for the students is the exact reason why grants have been hit so hard. the reason that fees have risen so high.
the fact is that if you look at every section of society you will find over the last 10 years students have been hit more than anybody and joe public doesnt seem to give a s#it because it doesnt affect them
When I was in college, I didn't qualify for the grant. My parents were earning €10 over the monthly threshold. I went out and found a job working in a shop, and at one point when I wasn't getting enough hours in the job I had, I went and got a second job packing shelves at night time in a toy shop.
Lots of students don't get grants, and are fine. A friend of mine also a member on here, went back as a mature student having dropped out of college the first time around. He paid fees, and worked his ass off in jobs to get himself through college. It's not as impossible a task as you make out.0 -
When I was in college, I didn't qualify for the grant. My parents were earning €10 over the monthly threshold. I went out and found a job working in a shop, and at one point when I wasn't getting enough hours in the job I had, I went and got a second job packing shelves at night time in a toy shop.
Lots of students don't get grants, and are fine. A friend of mine also a member on here, went back as a mature student having dropped out of college the first time around. He paid fees, and worked his ass off in jobs to get himself through college. It's not as impossible a task as you make out.
Good post, and one I reckon a lot of current and ex students can relate to.0 -
It is an issue that seems to be ignored pretty much by student protests. The various unions must be delighted to see the students protesting against politicans imho as it takes the spotlight off other areas of spending that if they were managed in a prudent manner could possibly make the savings needed to avoid the need for fees or at the very least it could make a massive difference to the size of fee increase that got implemented.
well i know that the USI(union of students in Ireland) where very vocal about these things last year but the problem was that to get support from colleges and some polititions they couldnt highlight these as priority issues. they where relying on backing and couldnt exactly blame the same people that where supposedly behind them.
i think though its a common problem in this country. we never seem to blame the right people.
everyone looks out for themsleves. we have split into sections in our society. we have public servants, private sector workers, students, unemployed, elderly, children, men, women and just about every other demogarphic you can think of.
the problem is this is how governments get into power. they divide and conquer. if they keep most of the sections happy they get voted in.
te point is we are all people all being affected the exact same. every family in this country fits at least 3 demogarphics. so insead of blaming the other demographics we should be blaming mnagement for runningthe company by treating its employees with different levels of respect. in this case the management is the government0 -
Icky Thump wrote: »alot do your right
but have you ever walked past icon on a friday or saturday night??? just as bad as a student night. the only difference is there isnt as many people. the issue is that the student population is so big its more noticable and its easier to label them as students rather than club goers.
while i agree whole heartedly that something needs to be done to make students more responsible i also think that alot of the responsiblit should be put on bar and club owners.
have you seen the some of the students going into these places??? they can barely walk going in never mind coming out!!!! if clubs and bars are willing to let extremly drunk people in then the strees will be fiulled with drunken behaviour. if bars and clubs didnt leave them in then they wouldnt be in town and they would stop getting that drunk before going to town.
as i said its the same to a lesser extent on fridays and saturdays its just that there isnt as many people around.
sure everyone finds a way of getting drink. usually it a 4 euro bottle of wine in tesco or any cheap crap they can get. its not like students are spending 200 quid on drink. hell i dont think i know many students that spend that in a month on drink and still go out alot. many of my mates who do go out might spend 20 quid a week at the most on drink and that includes a couple of pints
The reason you dont see the same on a friday or saturday is that people cant afford it the way they used to so they made a decision to cut back on going out where this doesn't seem to be the case with students.
You're right saying that they drink before they go and do it cheaply but thats not what the rest of the country will see. Regardless how much they spend on drink per night or month as long as they're complaining about fees people will throw it in their faces0 -
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When I was in college, I didn't qualify for the grant. My parents were earning €10 over the monthly threshold. I went out and found a job working in a shop, and at one point when I wasn't getting enough hours in the job I had, I went and got a second job packing shelves at night time in a toy shop.
Lots of students don't get grants, and are fine. A friend of mine also a member on here, went back as a mature student having dropped out of college the first time around. He paid fees, and worked his ass off in jobs to get himself through college. It's not as impossible a task as you make out.
yea of course it can be done. but my point is that not every course allows students time to work. im back as a mature student myself and paying fees aswell. im not getting help but ill cope some how. im just saying that its stressful its hard and its should not be the norm. it shpouldnt be normal to live on a couple of hours sleep because your working so much on top of college0
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