Belfield Running Track Closure

RelaxedRunner

The health and safety excuse was just a smokescreen - it's now an almost finished car park.
They were just biding their time. After all, we need more car parks and less facilities.

Sad for athletics. It's even sadder for UCD - those in charge have no shame about lying and seemingly no care for the student body.

ironclaw

Sam the Sham wrote: »

There really was no reason UCD couldn't have maintained the track. Except for letting it continue to exist would've interfered with this pipe dream that Brady once had (and blew €10 million on).

€10 million that had to be made up one way or another . . .

The track realistically would have had to have been rebuilt. It would have to be at least at a European training standard. It easily would have cost €10 million to do so by the time you planned it, tore it down and rebuilt it. This is Ireland, everything costs 10 times the planned amount :pac:

I do agree with you though, its a huge loss. That said, it needed investment and a serious one at that. I'm not sure I would have agreed with that quantity of cash being spent on what is, to be fair, a minority of the student body.

Sam the Sham

ironclaw wrote: »

The track realistically would have had to have been rebuilt. It would have to be at least at a European training standard. It easily would have cost €10 million to do so by the time you planned it, tore it down and rebuilt it. This is Ireland, everything costs 10 times the planned amount :pac:

Just because I used the €10 million figure (source) for the money wasted on consultants for the Gateway Project (that will never be built), doesn't mean that you get to state (with zero evidence) that a track would also cost €10 million. You're entitled to your own views. You're not entitled to your own facts.

Here are two links that say that you're way off.

ironclaw

Sam the Sham wrote: »

Here are two links that say that you're way off.

Few things wrong with that.

Its in dollars. Its based in America and hence their building standards. It takes nothing into account of having to remove the existing track. Completely rebuild the foundations. New drainage. The obviously high costs of doing any construction in Ireland. And thats all after you plan, accredit and supervise the entire project. Then insure and run it for a year. And while your at it, probably add some facilities and some viewing stands.

Granted €10 million is probably on the high side but a fully functioning decent running track wouldn't have much change left from that budget, in my opinion.

Sam the Sham

ironclaw wrote: »

Few things wrong with that.

Its in dollars. Its based in America and hence their building standards. It takes nothing into account of having to remove the existing track. Completely rebuild the foundations. New drainage. The obviously high costs of doing any construction in Ireland. And thats all after you plan, accredit and supervise the entire project. Then insure and run it for a year. And while your at it, probably add some facilities and some viewing stands.

Granted €10 million is probably on the high side but a fully functioning decent running track wouldn't have much change left from that budget, in my opinion.

Based on what?

On nothing, that's what. Come back to me with some price estimates that contradict mine and then we can have a discussion. Until then, you're blowing smoke.

ironclaw

Sam the Sham wrote: »

Based on what?

On nothing, that's what. Come back to me with some price estimates that contradict mine and then we can have a discussion. Until then, you're blowing smoke.

10 years of involvement in the leisure industry and planning projects would be my limited experience. Granted, never a running track but for example you'd easily blow a million building a decent paintball centre, and I mean just construction alone. People often gawk at that level of investment but its easily added up when you factor everything.

Your figures as I said are from an American perspective, in America, in an American climate and just for the basic track. They don't factor Irish planning, appeals, the inevitable consultation for things such as traffic and drainage, double this for chats with local residents and then Irish wage levels. Add a viewing stand and some facilities. Get it certified and insured. Even 20 guys on site at 100E per day each would cost you 2000 per day, that's 60 grand per month and its going to take way longer than that. You literally have to strip the entire field to bedrock and start again. Its not the same as taking up some carpet and putting some down. You literally have to rebuild the house.

I'm not disagreeing with your figures and I'm not saying its going to cost 10 million, I'm just saying I feel people are vastly underestimating the costs involved here for what I feel, and I'm talking as a runner myself, is a minority in UCD.

Sam the Sham

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with your figures and I'm not saying its going to cost 10 million

I could've sworn you did make exactly that claim.

I'm just saying I feel people are vastly underestimating the costs involved here for what I feel, and I'm talking as a runner myself, is a minority in UCD.

Might as well rip up the field hockey, football, and rugby pitches then, since only a minority use them. And, obviously, that swimming pool was a waste of money.

John_C

€150,000 in funding has been made available for the development of a new athletics track at Cherry Orchard in Enniscorthy ... The whole thing will cost about €350,000 in total.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/enniscorthyguardian/news/150000-boost-for-new-athletics-track-28974229.html

Sam the Sham

John_C wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/enniscorthyguardian/news/150000-boost-for-new-athletics-track-28974229.html

Did you not hear the man? He said €10 million.

ironclaw

Sam the Sham wrote: »

Did you not hear the man? He said €10 million.

Where?

There's also a massive difference between a track in a relatively small commuter town and say a University that wants to compete on a world stage. Different surface, different insurance, maintenance (Remember, it wouldn't be maintained by a council with unlimited funds) Facilities (Showers, changing rooms, upkeep of such) Perhaps a viewing stand. Security.

To reiterate, I never said the total bill would be €10 million, I'm just saying by the time you factor it all in, you mightn't have much change out of it. And then begin to insure, secure and maintain it. Contrast this to say a similar investment in say all the 'multi use' facilities such as the gym, pitches, swimming pool and other facilities that benefit a much larger student body.

What shocked me though is the didn't just build a running track and incorporate it into the pitches on the far side when they were working over there anyway.

Sam, if you have info or experience to the contrary, fair enough. Post it up. I'm just giving my opinion. I could of course be way off and open to correction.

Sam the Sham

Yes, that's it: we can't build the track because we want to compete on the world stage. Nothing less than the finest facility in Europe will do. And if we can't have that, then: nothing.

Raphael

Ok, this has more or less run its course by now, and possibly even looped back a few times, so I'ma lock this.

If anything new comes to light, or someone has something else to contribute to the subject, please start a new thread on the subject. But please do not carry baggage across from this one.