I am your public representative unless you are Black African

Ostrom

Seems reasonable, a very efficient way to deal with aggression. If only other such aggressors or general population-level scummers possesed as convenient a marker as skin color.

Perhaps the Mayor and his staff should draft a schedule of permissible characteristics and force some form of visible identification, or implement a screening system?

anymore

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Incitement to hatred is a crime. Also jailing sets an example for all the wannabe Nick Griffin's and Adolf Hitler's.

On the contrary it would be a boon for the Nick Griffins of the world - ask the Shinners how jailing people does wonders ofr recrutiment !
AS for the Hitlers, they only have to look to South Africa to see how contries start turning from democracy and setting on the road to dictatorship ! And to look at zimbabwe to see the end result.

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

Come on for Gods sake - it is a bit of a storm in a tea cup !
Is it racist to have 'Councils for Immigrants' funded by the taxpayer ?

What?

JonathanAnon

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I just heard on the radio that Labour's Aodhan O'Riordan is reporting this to the Gardai under incitement to hatred laws.

I find this sort of playing to the left wing, politically correct audience very cynical... Scully is gonna get in huge trouble over what he said anyway, without this sort of nonsense from Labour..

walshb

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I find this sort of playing to the left wing, politically correct audience very cynical... Scully is gonna get in huge trouble over what he said anyway, without this sort of nonsense from Labour..

Big time; she's simply tryin' to make a name for herself. Sad woman! It's the likes of her that I would be more wary of.

Suryavarman

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Incitement to hatred is a crime.

Refusing to deal with somebody is hardly incitement to hatred though is it?

Also jailing sets an example for all the wannabe Nick Griffin's and Adolf Hitler's.

Why not jail everyone who smokes cannabis to teach all those Pablo Escobar wannabes a lesson? Why not jail everyone that doesn't want an overweight partner to teach everyone that doesn't like overweight people a lesson? Just because you don't like somebodies opinion doesn't mean they should be put in prison.

JonathanAnon

walshb wrote: »

Big time; she's simply tryin' to make a name for herself. Sad woman! It's the likes of her that I would be more wary of.

Him... (Aodhan is Irish for Aiden I think)... Vincent Browne pronounced it wrong about 10 times on his show the other night.. O'Riordan was getting really p1ssed off by the end of the show

walshb

Suryavarman wrote: »

Refusing to deal with somebody is hardly incitement to hatred though is it?



Why not jail everyone who smokes cannabis to teach all those Pablo Escobar wannabes a lesson? Why not jail everyone that doesn't want an overweight partner to teach everyone that doesn't like overweight people a lesson? Just because you don't like somebodies opinion doesn't mean they should be put in prison.

But his apparnent negative labelling of a particular ethnicity could be considered incitement. He doesn't have to say "kill kill kill" or "hate hate hate" for it to be considered incitement to hatred.

walshb

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Him... (Aodhan is Irish for Aiden I think)... Vincent Browne pronounced it wrong about 10 times on his show the other night.. O'Riordan was getting really p1ssed off by the end of the show

Thanks. How silly of me. Goes to show nobody knows who the **** he is.

glenkeeran

Pride Fighter wrote: »

This 'person' if he can be described as such should be barred from holding public office and jailed. There should be zero tolerance for racist pigs.

This man must of been drive to the end of his patience to do this, personally i am pissed off which ireland been so welcoming and the ordinary citizen getting in line last for everything.
The race card is used far to often especially by ie blacks or jews. For example i was drawn to a website last week regarding some people in ireland protesting outside the israeli embassy and this was published..http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4149059,00.html

We as irish people need to get a grip. fix our own roads, be first in line to see our doctors or in line at our hospitals and even get a chance to get into a social wefare office.

No i dont condone racists but to say he should be jailed is silly. But he should be asked to explain himself.

desaparecidos

What's so bad about being "racist"?

Why is it seen in a negative light? He's formed an opinion on a grouping of people based on past experience from a high proportion of that grouping. What's the big deal? He's going to save himself a lot of grief in future because of this decision. (that is if he keeps his job, the Offended Brigade will probably have him ousted).

Nodin

glenkeeran wrote: »

This man must of been drive to the end of his patience to do this, .

A subjective standard.

glenkeeran wrote: »

personally i am pissed off which ireland been so welcoming and the ordinary citizen getting in line last for everything..

The ordinary citizen is behind who, exactly?

glenkeeran wrote: »

We as irish people need to get a grip. fix our own roads, be first in line to see our doctors or in line at our hospitals and even get a chance to get into a social wefare office.
.

What do you mean by "be first in line"...I'm not following here.

Solair

Well, the story's now gone international.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/22/ireland-mayor-refuses-black-people

Quite honestly, that is just inexplicable and inexcusable. He is the MAYOR of Naas, thus represents ALL the people of Naas.

He needs to resign NOW.

glenkeeran

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I find this sort of playing to the left wing, politically correct audience very cynical... Scully is gonna get in huge trouble over what he said anyway, without this sort of nonsense from Labour..

It would be better if labour stouk to its pre-election promises than get involved in this. If this is a crime the Garda will deal with it.

glenkeeran

Nodin wrote: »

A subjective standard.


The ordinary citizen is behind who, exactly?

People who are born and grown up in Ireland


What do you mean by "be first in line"...I'm not following here.

How many times have u gone into a doctors/hospitals and people from other ethnic origins are always in front and demanding service

Nodin

glenkeeran wrote: »

How many times have u gone into a doctors/hospitals and people from other ethnic origins are always in front and demanding service

I know this might be shocking to you, but I'm usually only interested in the size of the que.

You do realise that if its walk-in, then the order is entirely random?

Are you advocating two standards of service, one for "people from other ethnic origins" and one for those you regard as the same as yourself?

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

Urban myths? Well, when many, some or few people are verbally saying things and expressing their views I wouldn't call that an urban myth.

Oh sorry – urban myths and meaningless anecdotes.

BX 19 wrote: »

I think there will be many politicians and furthermore ordinary citizens who would agree with him privately but publicly he is in the middle of a ****storm at the moment.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting he’s the only racist in the country.

glenkeeran wrote: »

No i dont condone racists...

You just did.

Ostrom

glenkeeran wrote: »

How many times have u gone into a doctors/hospitals and people from other ethnic origins are always in front and demanding service

Is this supposed to be representative evidence of some sort?

glenkeeran

Nodin wrote: »

I know this might be shocking to you, but I'm usually only interested in the size of the que.

You do realise that if its walk-in, then the order is entirely random?

Are you advocating two standards of service, one for "people from other ethnic origins" and one for those you regard as the same as yourself?

Nodin i understand where ur coming from and i honestly dont know. Unfortunatly in times of hardship these are issues that will always surface and the weak in the community always seem to suffer. I really dont know what the man was thinking but if he wanted to be famous he surely is now.

whydoibother?

desaparecidos wrote: »

What's so bad about being "racist"?

Why is it seen in a negative light? He's formed an opinion on a grouping of people based on past experience from a high proportion of that grouping. What's the big deal? He's going to save himself a lot of grief in future because of this decision. (that is if he keeps his job, the Offended Brigade will probably have him ousted).

So you don't have a problem with the racism that Irish people experienced in the past either then?

"No Blacks, No Paddies, No dogs" - kind of thing is fine?

RichardAnd

People take racism a little too seriously in many cases. Here's a lighthearted spin on things by a very talented black comedian, Dave Chappelle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU28Pv26nNQ

BlaasForRafa

Nodin wrote: »

I know this might be shocking to you, but I'm usually only interested in the size of the que.

You do realise that if its walk-in, then the order is entirely random?

Are you advocating two standards of service, one for "people from other ethnic origins" and one for those you regard as the same as yourself?

Far be it for me to interpret for him but I think what he's saying is that not only is it incumbent on the Irish to get used to people from other countries but its also incumbent on people from other countries that come here to get used to Irish people and modify how they might deal with people. From my experience of Nigerian people they can (in general) be pretty pushy and in your face when they want something.

whydoibother?

RichardAnd wrote: »

People take racism a little too seriously in many cases. Here's a lighthearted spin on things by a very talented black comedian, Dave Chappelle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU28Pv26nNQ

Yeah, but this isn't one of those cases. It's hardly a trivial matter when your public representative is refusing to represent you on grounds of race. There's the comical over-PC brigade and very serious real-life racism that actually makes a difference to a persons lives.

desaparecidos

whydoibother? wrote: »

So you don't have a problem with the racism that Irish people experienced in the past either then?

"No Blacks, No Paddies, No dogs" - kind of thing is fine?

If an establishment chooses not to allow Irish in then that's fine. It's their choice. They might not like Irish people

steelcityblues

The thing with black Africans - in particular Nigerians - is how they talked to me about their different tribes in the country with a big level of disdain.

If they can't all unite with each other, then expecting them to assimilate well into a very different country in Ireland, was always a bit more than wishful thinking.

tweedledee

Aodhan O Whatshis face should actually go and read the laws on racism here, ignorant man. Saying you are not going to assist someone because of their race ISN'T incitement!!!! I love all these sideline solicitors!!!!!!!!!!!Reporting someone to the police under a statute that he dosn't understand.
Its amazing the amount of anti-rascists there seems to be in Ireland, when it's somebody else making statements about non-whites, but I havn't yet met a white Irish person who hasn't slagged off somebody of a different race, religion or nationality.
This country is full of hypocrites!!!!

telecaster

tweedledee wrote: »

This country is full of hypocrites!!!!

Another racist /\

Nodin

desaparecidos wrote: »

If an establishment chooses not to allow Irish in then that's fine. It's their choice. .....

Nope. Them days are gone.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/your_rights/discrimination/discrimination_because_of_religion_or_belief.htm

Suryavarman

walshb wrote: »

But his apparnent negative labelling of a particular ethnicity could be considered incitement. He doesn't have to say "kill kill kill" or "hate hate hate" for it to be considered incitement to hatred.

I guess you have a point there. The problem with incitement to hatred laws is what some people would consider incitement to hatred. If somebody made these comments about white people it wouldn't bother me, whereas somebody else might take great offence to it.

RichardAnd wrote: »

People take racism a little too seriously in many cases. Here's a lighthearted spin on things by a very talented black comedian, Dave Chappelle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU28Pv26nNQ

I think people should relax a little more when it comes to racist comments. If somebody wants to be an ignorant pig then just ignore them. The way to defeat racism is to ignore racists and/or make fun of them and show them to be the fools they are.

While we're on the subject of Dave Chappelle I'd recommend checking out his sketch on the blind black man that also happened to be a white supremacist.

InigoMontoya

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Or if he had been approached by a particularly obnoxious and pushy person belonging to, let's say, the Jewish community and had found the experience so unpleasant that he decided to announce he would henceforth no longer deal with any Jews?:rolleyes: Not only would Fine Gael already have given him the bum's rush, which he thoroughly deserves, by now, they would be busy trying to airbrush him out of the party's history as well.:eek:

If you are a public representative, and no one forced him to become one and accept the rewards that he gets for it, you must judge everyone as an individual. To refuse services, to which they are entitled, to an entire group based on the actions of one or several members of that group is discrimination, shameful, racist and inexcusable. Not only is he a racist, he is also an idiot.:mad:

People like Scully have no place in Irish public life. We already have far too much casual, ignorance-, pettiness- and envy-based racism among certain segments of the population. If a public representative like him can say what he said and not be called to heel for it, it marks a new and worrying development in our political life and can only give encouragement and legitimation to the nasty racist elements in Ireland who indulge in collective hate.:rolleyes:

That's unlikely. I'm sure FG, and other parties, have to go through a certain procedure to eject anyone from the party. It's not just a case of Enda Kenny picking up the phone and telling him to piss off.

whydoibother?

Suryavarman wrote: »

I think people should relax a little more when it comes to racist comments. If somebody wants to be an ignorant pig then just ignore them. The way to defeat racism is to ignore racists and/or make fun of them and show them to be the fools they are.

The problem with that is it assumes that the person making fun of you is a person of no consequence in your life - a randomer on the bus or something. What if you are relying on the person to carry out their job properly and be fair to you? This is hypothetical, but what if the racism is by a police force, by a doctor in deciding to treat you, by employers in deciding to hire you etc.? There are some people you can't ignore because whether they are fair to you or not matters.

tweedledee

People here should travel to Nigeria and see how Nigerians treat each other and foreigners!!!!It's not pretty, it's a very VERY dangerous place.Black South Africans, Black Kenyans, etc etc won't deal with Nigerians, won't give em jobs and if possible won't do business with them!!!! Why is that?????
Several Arab gulf countries, several affluant Asian countries won't give visas to Nigerians!!!Not even holiday visas. Why is that???????
Ask any member of ANY British police force about their relations with Nigerians!!!!
If Irish people actually knew more about the extremely bad reputation Nigerians have they wouldn't be soo quick to defend them. They are an extremely aggressive nationality to deal with.
On the other hand, Somalies, South Africans, Ethiopians, Ugandans are very decent, friendly and easy to do business with. (not including Somali pirates)

SillyMcCarthy

whydoibother? wrote: »

The problem with that is it assumes that the person making fun of you is a person of no consequence in your life - a randomer on the bus or something. What if you are relying on the person to carry out their job properly and be fair to you? This is hypothetical, but what if the racism is by a police force, by a doctor in deciding to treat you, by employers in deciding to hire you etc.? There are some people you can't ignore because whether they are fair to you or not matters.

Although I do not personally know the guy I would not call
him a racist for his motives. He felt that he has had enough
from this section of people & he had decided to give them
help but through another direction.

cornbb

I listened to his interview on Kildare FM there. The guy came across as a complete moron, pausing for reflection as the interviewer explained to him why his comments were racist.

It wouldn't be so bad if it were just one idiot politician shooting his mouth off, but the sad/disturbing fact is that there is a large part of the public who will see absolutely nothing wrong with what he said and in fact applaud him for doing this without having the slightest clue about what A Bad Thing it is for a mayor to have said that.

whydoibother?

SillyMcCarthy wrote: »

Although I do not personally know the guy I would not call
him a racist for his motives. He felt that he has had enough
from this section of people & he had decided to give them
help but through another direction.

He defined the "section of people" unfairly. If you have a problem with rude people, stop dealing with rude people. I wouldn't blame him for introducing policies in his office regarding what behaviour he or his staff were/were not required to tolerate and having clear, consistent guidelines as to when he would stop dealing with people who were misbehaving.

He, however, made the massively unfair assumption that rude people equals black people. Bringing race into it of his own accord and deciding to avoid people based on race is racism.

Nodin

tweedledee wrote: »

People here should travel to Nigeria ......

Before I get myself the tickets, you might explain to me what Nigeria has to do with the Mayor's comment.

pawrick

Most people seem to assume he is referring to Black Nigerians and not Black Africans in general...

Definitely he was being racist and should seriously consider his position representing all the people of the town he is paid to represent equally. His personal opinion should have been kept to himself while he continued to deal with people on an individual basis.

I do know where he is coming from on this through from a job I once worked in, some nationalities do stand out as having a higher proportion of difficult people but that didn't stop me carrying out my job, I chalked it down as that person being an ass and got on with it.
I was also called a racist a few times while doing this job as they had the mistaken belief this would speed things up for them, sometimes people do give preferential treatment just to move someone difficult on and this does not help.

tweedledee

For the wanabe solicitors here,,, "Incitement occurs where the accused PERSUADES or influences another person to commit an offence or where a person is induced to commit an offence as a result of duress exerted by the accused". Very straightforward really.
Saying you are not going to assist someone because you don't like their behaviour is NOT incitement.

whydoibother?

tweedledee wrote: »

For the wanabe solicitors here,,, "Incitement occurs where the accused PERSUADES or influences another person to commit an offence or where a person is induced to commit an offence as a result of duress exerted by the accused". Very straightforward really.
Saying you are not going to assist someone because you don't like their behaviour is NOT incitement.

Firstly, I think that's a different kind of incitement - not the hatred type.

Secondly, there are plenty discrimination related offences that don't involve incitement at all.

desaparecidos

Nodin wrote: »

Nope. Them days are gone.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/your_rights/discrimination/discrimination_because_of_religion_or_belief.htm

You asked what I thought of it. Laws have nothing to do with what I think about it.

I think nowadays the term racism doesn't only apply to race "discrimination", but towards different ethnic or social groupings.

Therefore, all of your hate towards racists (a social grouping) makes you a racist.

tweedledee

Nodin for you, 90% of African immigrants (mostly illegal here) in Ireland are Nigerian. Like I said Somalies, Ethiopians, South Africans are very humble, decent people, Nigerians have a WORLDWIDE, justified reputation as aggressive, violent people.
Thats why I'm assuming he has had difficulties with Nigerians.

Zubeneschamali

tweedledee wrote: »

Saying you are not going to assist someone because you don't like their behaviour is NOT incitement.

Saying that Black Africans as a group are so rude and aggressive that you, as a public official, are no longer going to deal with them certainly is.

Suryavarman

whydoibother? wrote: »

The problem with that is it assumes that the person making fun of you is a person of no consequence in your life - a randomer on the bus or something. What if you are relying on the person to carry out their job properly and be fair to you? This is hypothetical, but what if the racism is by a police force, by a doctor in deciding to treat you, by employers in deciding to hire you etc.? There are some people you can't ignore because whether they are fair to you or not matters.

If a member of the police force was a racist and it was negatively his/her ability to do their job then they should be fired. If somebody is forced to pay for that service through taxation then it is not acceptable if they receive lower standards due to their race.

In the case of a racist doctor then somebody could attend another doctor's practice.

With an employer, attempts to stamp out racism make the situation worse. If an employer is racist and he has the option of hiring either a white person or a black person and he has to pay both equal amounts, the employer is going to go with the white person as it won't cost anything to be a racist. On the other hand if he is allowed to offer the black person lower wages it costs him to be a racist. Also with anti-discrimination laws if the employer were to make an off the cuff remark or try to fire a black person, he could have a court case on his hand, which would disincentivise people from hiring black people, even if they weren't racists!

tweedledee

Hatred laws in Ireland are very vague, theres a reason for that.

Nodin

desaparecidos wrote: »

You asked what I thought of it. Laws have nothing to do with what I think about it.

I didn't ask you anything, actually.

The way you phrased it conveyed rather a different meaning than the expression of a personal opinion. And of course, the fact is that such persons have little or no choice in who they serve anymore.

Nodin

tweedledee wrote: »

Nodin for you, 90% of African immigrants (mostly illegal here) in Ireland are Nigerian..

You've some official stats to back up both those claims, I trust?

tweedledee wrote: »

..........Thats why I'm assuming he has had difficulties with Nigerians.

....by superimposing your personal opinion onto him. He, however, has not made any such distinction, so perhaps we should address what he actually stated.

tweedledee

I agree as a public official he is there to help everybody, but I and 100's of millions of other people around the world who has had the misfortune to deal with Nigerians understand where he is coming from, but again as a public official he was out of order.

whydoibother?

Suryavarman wrote: »

If a member of the police force was a racist and it was negatively his/her ability to do their job then they should be fired. If somebody is forced to pay for that service through taxation then it is not acceptable if they receive lower standards due to their race.

In the case of a racist doctor then somebody could attend another doctor's practice.

With an employer, attempts to stamp out racism make the situation worse. If an employer is racist and he has the option of hiring either a white person or a black person and he has to pay both equal amounts, the employer is going to go with the white person as it won't cost anything to be a racist. On the other hand if he is allowed to offer the black person lower wages it costs him to be a racist. Also with anti-discrimination laws if the employer were to make an off the cuff remark or try to fire a black person, he could have a court case on his hand, which would disincentivise people from hiring black people, even if they weren't racists!

In relation to the doctor, if racism becomes endemic and acceptable in a society, it's plausible that no doctor would see them, or see them with the same sense of urgency as other patients.

In relation to employers, if employers are going around making off the cuff remarks that result in court cases, are you sure they're not racist? If you're advocating lower pay for black people in the interests of equality, I really don't know where to start with that one.

Norwayviking

tweedledee wrote: »

People here should travel to Nigeria and see how Nigerians treat each other and foreigners!!!!It's not pretty, it's a very VERY dangerous place.Black South Africans, Black Kenyans, etc etc won't deal with Nigerians, won't give em jobs and if possible won't do business with them!!!! Why is that?????
Several Arab gulf countries, several affluant Asian countries won't give visas to Nigerians!!!Not even holiday visas. Why is that???????
Ask any member of ANY British police force about their relations with Nigerians!!!!
If Irish people actually knew more about the extremely bad reputation Nigerians have they wouldn't be soo quick to defend them. They are an extremely aggressive nationality to deal with.
On the other hand, Somalies, South Africans, Ethiopians, Ugandans are very decent, friendly and easy to do business with. (not including Somali pirates)

I have worked offshore in Nigeria for 2 years,and i a NEVER EVER going back there again:mad:
And the way you are beiing treated by the locals are beyond believe.
Talk about racism,try and work in Nigera:rolleyes:

Solair

What it illustrates to me is that Irish Local Government is absolutely screwed up. How did this guy manage to become mayor of anywhere?

The way the mayoral systems work in Ireland is an absolute joke.

1) Councillors have no power, so they're voted for by a very small turn out and most people can't even name one of their local councillors.

2) TDs ride roughshod all over councillors and do or take credit their work.

3) The mayor position is usually some kind of a carve up between the political parties. He/she has no power, and is nothing other than a ceremonial chair of the council. The term is usually so short too that it makes absolutely no impact because everyone wants to have a 'go' at playing Mayor. I remember ringing a certain Irish city hall and the receptionist couldn't name the mayor!!!

To me this scandal and total fiasco just shows that the local authority system is utterly broken and needs urgent reform.

If you don't take the system seriously and encourage people to get involved, this is the kind of stuff that happens!