Eminem lyrical genius ?

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 12:53am

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

It's not often i agree with you Hugh but now I completely agree with you.

not sure you do tbh, im a huge pac fan, the man is up there as one of the best ever, his music was/is timeless.

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 12:58am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

not sure you do tbh, im a huge pac fan, the man is up there as one of the best ever, his music was/is timeless.

No i honestly don't think he is up there.
If he was still alive he would be no more famous than any of the major artists that came out of the 90s and his talent is definitely not extraordinary IMO.

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 12:59am

fair enough, your obviously wrong, no offence.
talented as fukk.

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 1:07am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

fair enough, your obviously wrong, no offence.
talented as fukk.

He wasn't any better than a mid 90s cube or snoop IMO
The fact that he died his beef with biggie and all his publicity he got just raised his popularity and exposed him more and more to the public which convinced people that he was a lot better than he was.
And to be honest i'm a huge biggie fan as well which doesn't really help my opinion of tupac.

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:15am

its 2011 buddy, why you letting 1996 beefs cloud ya judgement?

seriously, listening to all eyez on me right now, shyts classic.

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:16am

Pac >>> Biggie
Biggie >> Pac

meh who gives a fukk, two legends.

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 1:19am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

its 2011 buddy, why you letting 1996 beefs cloud ya judgement?

seriously, listening to all eyez on me right now, shyts classic.

I'm not letting their beef cloud my judgement lol
I just think biggie is better than him and i always have.
It's just my opinion.
And yes tupac has plenty of good songs but theyre nothing spectacular theyre just good west coast rap.

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:24am

ye but biggie being better than pac does not mean pac an over rated no talent zero.

whats west coast about Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. , Me Against the World and All Eyez on Me

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:26am

west coast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbpEgQvfw0A

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 1:30am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

ye but biggie being better than pac does not mean pac an over rated no talent zero.

whats west coast about Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. , Me Against the World and All Eyez on Me

I'm not sure if the 1st part of your reply is even in english.
The 2nd part: thats three songs...... I think he may have had a few more than that.
You cant base an argument on such a narrow selection of tupacs songs.

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:33am

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

I'm not sure if the 1st part of your reply is even in english.
The 2nd part: thats three songs...... I think he may have had a few more than that.
You cant base an argument on such a narrow selection of tupacs songs.

not sure i can argue something with someone who cant understand english, and more to the point shyts on an srtist yet doesnt even know said artists catalogue.

3 songs, seriously?

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 1:37am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

not sure i can argue something with someone who cant understand english, and more to the point shyts on an srtist yet doesnt even know said artists catalogue.

3 songs, seriously?

I've owned a few tupac albums so don't talk to me like i'm fúcking retarded and in no way did i "shyt" on him i just said i don't think he's near as good as people make him out to be.

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:45am

the above i mentioned are 3 of his albums, like i said, fair enough, entitled to your opinion, but your wrong, sorry mate, no offence.

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 1:47am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

the above i mentioned are 3 of his albums, like i said, fair enough, entitled to your opinion, but your wrong, sorry mate, no offence.

Well done you have been successful in arguing with every regular to the hip hop forum.
That in itself is astounding.:D:D:D

Hugh Cream · 27-11-2011 1:50am

lol the only regular user on here ive had a problem with is pb, i think weve sorted that out thankfully.:)

conor.hogan.2 · 27-11-2011 5:48pm

Again I dont know how anyone can be wrong with an opinion, but anyway.

Even if you think Biggie was better than Tupac, although that is up there with preferring the stones to the beatles and blur to oasis.

I used to think Biggie was overrated, until I properly listened to him and although he has some great songs he was nowhere near Tupac in either quality, quantity or in any other way.

Where is biggies or eminems "keep ya head up", "dopefiends diner", "changes", "until the end of time" or "dear mama" ? Not saying the em or biggie are crap or anything but where are songs like those in their catalogues?

Drugs and having a hard (personal) life only spread so far.

horsebox09 · 27-11-2011 6:10pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Again I dont know how anyone can be wrong with an opinion, but anyway.

Even if you think Biggie was better than Tupac, although that is up there with preferring the stones to the beatles and blur to oasis.

I used to think Biggie was overrated, until I properly listened to him and although he has some great songs he was nowhere near Tupac in either quality, quantity or in any other way.

Where is biggies or eminems "keep ya head up", "dopefiends diner", "changes", "until the end of time" or "dear mama" ? Not saying the em or biggie are crap or anything but where are songs like those in their catalogues?

Drugs and having a hard (personal) life only spread so far.

I agree with the point you're making, but the part in bold, I think Lose Yourself, Sing For The Moment, Stan, Rock Bottom, Rabbit Run would be Em's equivilent of those tracks, and B.I.G has songs like Juicy and Sky Is The Limit, that everyone knows.

@ Jimmy Iovine; Ha I messed up that line completely, it's supposed to be; "I promised the ****in' critics I wouldn't say "fcukin'" for 6 minutes", which he goes exactly 6 minutes without doing

Bobby Baccala · 27-11-2011 6:15pm

horsebox09 wrote: »

I agree with the point you're making, but the part in bold, I think Lose Yourself, Sing For The Moment, Stan, Rock Bottom, Rabbit Run would be Em's equivilent of those tracks, and B.I.G has songs like Juicy and Sky Is The Limit, that everyone knows.

@ Jimmy Iovine; Ha I messed up that line completely, it's supposed to be; "I promised the ****in' critics I wouldn't say "fcukin'" for 6 minutes", which he goes exactly 6 minutes without doing

Big had juicy, hypnotise, big poppa, skies the limit, suicidal thoughts etc..
You don't even have to be a biggie fan to know how good these songs are.

mufcboy1999 · 27-11-2011 8:39pm

Where is biggies or eminems "keep ya head up", "dopefiends diner", "changes", "until the end of time" or "dear mama" ? Not saying the em or biggie are crap or anything but where are songs like those in their catalogues?

you cant compare different rappers work so they sound a like... each artist has there own unique sound both em and biggie have different ways in expressing them selves through there music.

you cant just say where's so and so's keep ya head up etc eminem and biggie also rap about real things maybe not in the same light and as frequent as pac but none the less they express it in there own way, especially eminem who really rapped in a different time period than pac and has reached out to an entire new audience and generation of hip hop fans so you cant compare and also you really do have to realize how different of style/sound the east and west coast had back then it was very unique unlike todays hip hop. biggie reached out to his fans in songs like juicy,skys the limit etc in a way that pac couldn't thats what made them different its the ying and the yang.

imo by your train of taught you are saying big and em are not as good as pac because they haven't made enough songs about the same things pac raps about? if thats so its just wrong, there all different but at the same time both biggie and em have made similar songs that have impacted young people's lives in the same way as the songs by pac you have listed above.

Shapey Fiend · 27-11-2011 9:48pm

Judging by the number of Eminem topics on this forum I can reveal that he is indisputably THE best lyricist of all time.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-11-2011 9:52pm

Those biggie songs are great, no doubt.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

biggie reached out to his fans in songs like juicy,skys the limit etc in a way that pac couldn't thats what made them different its the ying and the yang.

imo by your train of taught you are saying big and em are not as good as pac because they haven't made enough songs about the same things pac raps about? if thats so its just wrong, there all different but at the same time both biggie and em have made similar songs that have impacted young people's lives in the same way as the songs by pac you have listed above.

I agree, I wasnt saying that really.

But what do you mean by the "reached out" part?

Em and Biggie are amazing, but the sheer amount and diversity of Tupacs songs outshines them both imo and that is not to put them down at all.

mufcboy1999 · 28-11-2011 12:30am

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Those biggie songs are great, no doubt.

I agree, I wasnt saying that really.

But what do you mean by the "reached out" part?

Em and Biggie are amazing, but the sheer amount and diversity of Tupacs songs outshines them both imo and that is not to put them down at all.

i meant eminem has touched upon a whole new hip hop audience with his music, something pac hasn't done because he wasn't around long enough where as em is still actively making music keeping himself relevant amongst hip hop's newer/younger fans.

im not saying pac isn't relevant, im just saying there's a lot of younger hip hop fans who wouldn't know an album like all eyez on me if it jumped up and smacked them in the face and its no fault of there own considering the kind of hip hop that breaks the commercial market these days heavily influenced by techno/pop.

Hugh Cream · 28-11-2011 1:15am

doesnt everyone know pac?
any concert i go to, lots of young people, raise the roof to unbelievable levels when pacs music comes on.

mufcboy1999 · 28-11-2011 2:16am

Hugh Cream wrote: »

doesnt everyone know pac?
any concert i go to, lots of young people, raise the roof to unbelievable levels when pacs music comes on.

knowing someone's name and knowing someone's music are 2 entirely different things.

one my sisters is 16 likes eminem but she doesn't like 2pac she's heard of him alright but i can gaurntee you she wouldn't even have an interest in his music this is the kind of scenario im talking about, eminem has broken into an entirely new hip hop audience. My sister went out with i say tousands of other teenagers and bought the recovery album, she now loves eminem lol but if i gave her the marshall mathers lp with no rhianna,pink etc an album with pretty much completly different lryical content i think she'd say to me is this the same person

.

This is why id really doubt a lot of todays youngsters would listen to a pac album front to back and actual think hey is this what 2pac sounds like i taught his music was like "changes" (possibly pacs most commercial friendly song and popular song amongst young people even though it was made after he passed).

as far as the roof being raised to unbelievable levels when a pac song comes on by younger people there's only certain pac songs that they are going to know hugh if we are going to be honest a handful at most but my point was the majority of young hip hop fans are not going to know an album released in the early to mid 90's by him or know much of his music bar his hits, fu*k i cant remember the last time i saw a pac video on even the music channels bar the odd 1 on channel AKA late at night.

when i say young im not talking 20's ether im talking teeny boppers, 12 to 16 year old drake and young money fanatics that have been brainwashed by the industry into thinking this is hip hop, long gone are the days when you would hear anything remotely gangsta or just raw hip hop on the radios/music channels, it has to have a pop hook/techno beat to even be successful now a days.

Da Shins Kelly · 28-11-2011 3:51am

On the subject of Eminem, I think he's had some brilliant moments of lyrical genius and I think he's an excellent lyricist, but I've felt deeply underwhelmed by most of his current work. I don't really think he has anything to prove though, the strength of some of his songs from the past are head and shoulders above most.

conor.hogan.2 · 28-11-2011 11:13pm

Ye, good points.

I cant blame them either it is a completely different set of music they are being drowned with atm.

Sure I didn't start looking beyond eminem/dre (and associated acts) till I was older myself so people growing up with Drake etc are unlikely to look further.

Hugh Cream · 29-11-2011 2:12am

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

knowing someone's name and knowing someone's music are 2 entirely different things.

one my sisters is 16 likes eminem but she doesn't like 2pac she's heard of him alright but i can gaurntee you she wouldn't even have an interest in his music this is the kind of scenario im talking about, eminem has broken into an entirely new hip hop audience. My sister went out with i say tousands of other teenagers and bought the recovery album, she now loves eminem lol but if i gave her the marshall mathers lp with no rhianna,pink etc an album with pretty much completly different lryical content i think she'd say to me is this the same person .

This is why id really doubt a lot of todays youngsters would listen to a pac album front to back and actual think hey is this what 2pac sounds like i taught his music was like "changes" (possibly pacs most commercial friendly song and popular song amongst young people even though it was made after he passed).

as far as the roof being raised to unbelievable levels when a pac song comes on by younger people there's only certain pac songs that they are going to know hugh if we are going to be honest a handful at most but my point was the majority of young hip hop fans are not going to know an album released in the early to mid 90's by him or know much of his music bar his hits, fu*k i cant remember the last time i saw a pac video on even the music channels bar the odd 1 on channel AKA late at night.

when i say young im not talking 20's ether im talking teeny boppers, 12 to 16 year old drake and young money fanatics that have been brainwashed by the industry into thinking this is hip hop, long gone are the days when you would hear anything remotely gangsta or just raw hip hop on the radios/music channels, it has to have a pop hook/techno beat to even be successful now a days.

i dont know mate, i can only speak from personal experience, where as your experience is of a young sister with what seems a limited taste in music, not unlike many girls that age.
mine is the opposite.
like i said, been to concerts and seen the reaction of young fans to pac songs, not as you suggested, the certain songs, the handful.

you have a sister who has very little interest, i have a nephew who was repeating snoop lines as soon as he could talk properly.
who came wit me to see snoop or jay or 50 or game or eminem at a young age, and knew all the lyrics.
plenty of teens like that, those kids are also listening to pac, they still are mate, trust me.

and if your music tastes are limited that has nothing to do with young money.

Keith in cork · 29-11-2011 2:23am

blaze1 wrote: »

My life was so tough when i was young, now i'm worth a **** load of cash my lifes still tough....

Didn't the noorious B.I.G say "Mo money, Mo problems"

I do think in the earlier days i would have agreed and said yes. Once he started wth the whole pee wee act i felt it let the whole thing down. He even says so himself. Now that the genre has changed, he's not the same anymore. Sure us loyal fans still buy and listen because inbetween all the ****e songs theres a few lines that you hear and just instanty get it. Maybe some day we'll get him at his best again, but i do feel the ship has sailed, he'll retire after one or two more lead balloons.

Ardennes1944 · 29-11-2011 2:27am

Yes he is. I do not love his new stuff as much as his old but he couldnt keep the same style or we'd get bored. I love the guy, and hope he comes back with one last great album.
I live in cork, drove up to bangor and down the same night to see him during the summer....he owned us.

Hugh Cream · 29-11-2011 11:04am

I genuinely thInk if you do not consider em a music genius well then maybe you can't comprehend the idea of a music artist as a genius.
Because seriously, if you don't consider em genius I'm wondering who you do put in that category.

conor.hogan.2 · 29-11-2011 5:38pm

No doubt he is, but he has a lot of crap released too.

mufcboy1999 · 29-11-2011 11:40pm

like i said, been to concerts and seen the reaction of young fans to pac songs, not as you suggested, the certain songs, the handful.

i mean what 2pac songs do you hear at concerts in recent times? the concerts iv been to iv heard his more well known songs there's not a chance the dj would bump out some real vintage pac no way unless it was in the set by the main act like some do their bob marley tribute in refference to smoking.

those kids are also listening to pac, they still are mate, trust me.

i personally dont think they are or if anything at least not as many, i know a few younger lads around the estate who like to think they know pac because they know california love or have heard hit em up, imo pac doesn't have as much of an influence on todays younger hip hop fans if he did would we have tight jeans,dancing,singing, auto tune etc in hip hop music.

im not saying everyone has to go down the same route as pac, look at j.cole he's not a gangsta rapper but was heavily influenced by pac growing up you can hear it in his music (story telling) but at least he keeps it hip hop.

and if your music tastes are limited that has nothing to do with young money

i used them as an example as there 3 biggest names are all commercial hip hop/pop.

drake shouldn't really be considered a rapper he's more r'n'b/pop with the occasional average to poor rap, niki is a good rapper but she's just plain pop music and wayne the self proclaimed greatest rapper alive when he's not trying to sing or play his guitar.

young money is a representation of what commercial hip hop has become pop music and is all over the radios etc so thats what i meant by a lot of young people being brainwashed into thinking young money is real hip hop.

not trying to offend any people here who like young money but its just my opinion on it.:)

by the way eminem has announced a world tour with wayne, wishing it was with his own label and aftermath instead but what can you do, at least we will get another chance to see him hopefully.