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Where to read in Dublin?

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13

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    #62
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    I can't believe this is still going on. Can't we just agree that the anti riff raff crowd can inform security of interlopers on campus and see if they'll deal with them forthwith (Traumatic interruptions in a mid-reading of Middlemarch aside) and that the pro riff raff crowd genuinely don't see a problem either empirically (Evidence suggests space in the upper echelons of the arts block is ample) or in principal (I really don't care - it doesn't effect anyones education even if some pampered Trinners student has to sit on the floor from time to time - which is most galling, I'm sure)


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    #63
    Rodger_Muir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭Rodger_Muir


    Denerick wrote: »
    I can't believe this is still going on. Can't we just agree that the anti riff raff crowd can inform security of interlopers on campus and see if they'll deal with them forthwith (Traumatic interruptions in a mid-reading of Middlemarch aside) and that the pro riff raff crowd genuinely don't see a problem either empirically (Evidence suggests space in the upper echelons of the arts block is ample) or in principal (I really don't care - it doesn't effect anyones education even if some pampered Trinners student has to sit on the floor from time to time - which is most galling, I'm sure)

    I find your responce quite flippant. The issue isn that anyone sees anyone else as riff raff. Its that there using facilites that are in short supply. that have a high demand and provided for use of students. I wouldnt mind someone popping in for a coffee and reading there paper, or the latest opus by Terry Prachet or Dan Brown. If there were room to accomidate them. But at lunch time there isnt. The couches and chairs on the ground floor haven't been bought with tax payers money, but yet some of the posters here have no problem depriving the people who have contributed towards the cost of them there use.Especially when there are free alternatives such as the Ilac libary or National libary of Ireland whos sole aim is to provide a place for people to read.


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    #64
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Rodger_Muir wrote: »
    I find your responce quite flippant. The issue isn that anyone sees anyone else as riff raff. Its that there using facilites that are in short supply. that have a high demand and provided for use of students. I wouldnt mind someone popping in for a coffee and reading there paper, or the latest opus by Terry Prachet or Dan Brown. If there were room to accomidate them. But at lunch time there isnt. The couches and chairs on the ground floor haven't been bought with tax payers money, but yet some of the posters here have no problem depriving the people who have contributed towards the cost of them there use.Especially when there are free alternatives such as the Ilac libary or National libary of Ireland whos sole aim is to provide a place for people to read.

    And I find your responses over the top. Not only has it been suggested that people should avoid the ground floor (Due to the fact that it is busy and noisy) but it has been stated ad nauseum that the upper floors of the arts block are relatively empty and provide a nice, warm and quiet environment to read in the city center. I went to Trinners for four years, I know all the nooks and crannies, and unless the student body has shot up by 000s% then I think you are being slightly hysterical in your opposition to a few people popping in to read their book for half an hour. If the great unwashed swamped the place with Celia Ahern and Stephenie Meyer I might share your concerns on account of bad taste, but otherwise...

    I feel no urge to continue this. I disagree with you, you disagree with me. There is no moral high ground here and I find it hard to get particularly emotionalised by the prospect of somebody reading their paperback in Trinity's hollowed grounds.

    You've already stated you see no problem with people taking one of the benches outside. Realistically there is no substantive issue here. People either attend lectures/tutorials or study in the library. Their education is not affected. Perhaps some level of comfort is at stake, but that is a price you pay by going to a university in the city center.


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    #65
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Rodger_Muir wrote: »
    Its over 20k almost 30k (thats not including staff), so as you can imagine space is at a premium, and I'm not sure where your getting the implied bit from. LIke I've said I dont mind someone sitting on the bank of the cricket pitch on a sunny day or otherwise reading. But anything else and your taking away from the student body. Which isnt fair.

    Well, according to this it seems to be about 16k and I wanted to pick the lowest possible number to show the numbers going through the place and how it would take several thousand outsiders coming in sitting down and reading books before it made any kind of serious difference to the place.

    The permission is implied by the fact that there are a number of attractions advertised as available to the public, that the gates are opened and there are signs encouraging visitors, that there is probably a public right of way through the college during the daytime hours etc.

    http://www.tcd.ie/Library/bookofkells/tour-attractions/
    Lawliet wrote: »
    The outside areas are public, and some places on campus like the arts block, cafes etc. are semi public areas, but most places are not. There are plenty of buildings that people could wander into, but that doesn't mean they're allowed to be there.

    No one suggested that the OP was going to walk into the English Professor's private bathroom or anything, he was just talking about sitting in a public area and reading. Which, you seem to agree, he is entitled to do.


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    #66
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Rodger_Muir wrote: »
    Clearly is dosent effect there education. But the facilities are provided for students. Who cant avail of it because of free loaders like the OP.

    I love the idea of students calling tax payers free loaders. :eek:


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    #67
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    No one suggested that the OP was going to walk into the English Professor's private bathroom or anything, he was just talking about sitting in a public area and reading. Which, you seem to agree, he is entitled to do.
    Entitled suggests a legal right to do something, so no I don't agree that the OP is "entitled" to read in the arts block, like I said it is at best a semi public area which means anyone without a reason to be there can be asked to leave by security. Having said that I don't particularly care what the OP or anyone does in the arts block so long as they're not getting in my way, I just wanted to point out that most of Trinity is not open to the public like was previously stated.


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    #68
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »

    The permission is implied by the fact that there are a number of attractions advertised as available to the public, that the gates are opened and there are signs encouraging visitors, that there is probably a public right of way through the college during the daytime hours etc.

    No such permission is implied or stated. Just because events are advertised in the RDS doesn't mean you can wander in as and when you like, into locations which are intended for the use of RDS members.

    How would the students or staff be expected to attend to their work if the gates were closed, pray tell?

    And I await with interest your proof of a public right of way through the campus. I suspect quite strongly that there isn't one, which is not to say I have any objection to people walking through the college at all. What I object to is their claiming a right to use facilities intended for the use of students, when they are apparently incapable of explaining why they can't use the National Library mere seconds away.


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    #69
    AstridBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭AstridBean


    Um, I think it's easy enough to settle the (utterly fascinating) 'To use or not to use the TCD library' debate that's been ongoing in this thread.

    When I was there (graduated 2009), access to the library was dependent on holding a valid student card. No card, no access. It's that simple!


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    #70
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    Rodger_Muir wrote: »
    My problem is someone presuming they have a right to lounge around the place and use over stressed facities, at peak times, ad to be honest artvandelay48 your attiruide isn't helping the case. Perhaps they might be more welcoming of you in Bolton street. Its probably closer as well.

    Excuse me Rodger, but any "attiruide" that I have displayed has been in response to some very over-the-top posts from Cavehill_red which displayed more attitude than my posts. I have been called a lech by him and a "cheap b@stard" by yourself. I have tried to keep this very innocuous thread civil but it seems that your collective sense of entitlement has been so inflamed that you are both resorting to irrational and cheap name calling and snobbish behaviour (to wit: "Perhaps they might be more welcoming of you in Bolton street. Its probably closer as well").

    So, let's take Denerick's suggestion that the TCD security should be the final arbiter of what is and is not allowed in TCD buildings. Until then, please make sure to say hello in the arts block.

    PS I hope your spelling and grammar is indicative only of your fear of rubbing shoulders with the hoi polloi and not TCD's declining standards.


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    #71
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Still can't explain why you must go and sit among the students rather than in the National Library mere minutes away? I notice that you've failed to offer a single explanation for that on five separate occasions so far.

    The only possible conclusion is that TCD must offer you something that the NL does not. Now, they're both heated and both have seating. In fact, the NL is significantly more comfortable to sit in than TCD Arts block and has the added attraction of having thousands of books available for you to peruse for free, as well as regular exhibits of national treasures.

    So what is it that lures you into TCD instead, Art? What attraction is there to sit among young students in TCD on sofas provided by the students union for their use instead of utilising the National Library?


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    #72
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    I have, Red, but you have refused to recognise my response instead preferring a rather more prurient (but false) view.


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    #73
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    artvandelay48 wrote: »
    I have, Red, but you have refused to recognise my response instead preferring a rather more prurient (but false) view.

    Then you won't mind spelling it out again for slow learners. You said you went to TCD because it was warm and dry and near your work. So is the National Library, where you would not be disturbing students or using facilities they are in need of.

    So, what was your specific reason for not going to the National Library which is provided and designed specifically for your need, and instead using facilities that are intended and provided for students and not for you?


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    #74
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    You said you went to TCD because it was warm and dry and near your work.

    And that's all the justification I need to make to you.


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    #75
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    artvandelay48 wrote: »
    And that's all the justification I need to make to you.

    So, you haven't in fact answered the question at all. This is why your stance is so suspicious. You cannot offer a legitimate reason for being in TCD Arts Block given that the National Library, which is more suited for your stated purpose, is only minutes away.


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    #76
    Rodger_Muir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭Rodger_Muir


    Your wasting your time Cavehill. He's just a self entitled arrogant Wanker. He's just posting now to spite you. I'm bowing out here.


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    #77
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Rodger_Muir wrote: »
    Your wasting your time Cavehill. He's just a self entitled arrogant Wanker. He's just posting now to spite you. I'm bowing out here.

    I've suggested to a friend in the college that they might pursue this issue through internal channels. Beyond the mere fact that overcrowded facilities intended for student use are being occupied by people with no legitimate reason to be there, I am now somewhat disturbed by the likelihood that some visitors may be attending the Arts Block for nefarious purposes.

    At least one poster refuses to offer any explanation as to why they must go to the Arts Block, where young female students gather between classes, rather than the National Library, if their stated reason is to simply read a book. Obviously that raises concerns that reading is not their purpose for being there, and that is a genuine security concern for the students.


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    #78
    Rodger_Muir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭Rodger_Muir


    To be fair I think you might be being a little over dramatic Cavehill. I suspect the poster is evading your question on the grounds, that there is no good reason why they would choose the arts block over a library and wants to save face.


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    #79
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    If that is the case, they are going about it the very wrong way. It would have been simple for them to state that the National Library was suitable for their purpose, even without conceding the obvious point that the Arts block is not, since it is overcrowded, not a public space and its facilities are intended for the use of students.

    However, his arrogant tone of entitlement and point-blank refusal to offer any explanation raises obvious suspicions and concerns. The only possible reason why he would prefer the noisy, overcrowded and uncomfortable space of the Arts Block over the National Library is because there are many young people present in the former. I can think of no other reason, and it is on that basis that I have suggested that this issue now be raised within the college.


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    #80
    hooplah
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭hooplah


    Just a quickpoint. The National Librry isn't designed for you to call in and read your boook. It's there so you can call in and consult some of their books - or other parts of their collections.
    It is a beautiful building though and worth checking out if you haven't been there before.


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    #81
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Two moderator notes:

    Firstly, while the first post asked, in part, about using TCD facilities to read, there's no particular need to turn the thread exclusively into a discussion on the rights or wrongs of taking up space in an educational facility.

    Secondly, there's been some personal abuse on this thread - those that have indulged in it have been warned and/or infracted for this. I suggest discussing the side-issue rationally rather than perched on either a high horse or a hobby horse.


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    #82
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Perhaps it would be better if people were then to suggest suitable places in town to go and read in. There have been some excellent suggestions already, from the Ilac library to the National Library and the Chester Beatty. There are thousands of locations in Dublin city centre that aren't Trinity's Arts Block, and I would welcome more discussion of those.


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    #83
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Perhaps it would be better if people were then to suggest suitable places in town to go and read in. There have been some excellent suggestions already, from the Ilac library to the National Library and the Chester Beatty. There are thousands of locations in Dublin city centre that aren't Trinity's Arts Block, and I would welcome more discussion of those.

    You do see that what you personally welcome, isn't the same as what other people are allowed to discuss? Do you also see that the various personal and abusive attacks have just added page views across two forums now, possibly alerting many more people to the public access nature of facilities in most our universities?


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    #84
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    I've suggested to a friend in the college that they might pursue this issue through internal channels. Beyond the mere fact that overcrowded facilities intended for student use are being occupied by people with no legitimate reason to be there, I am now somewhat disturbed by the likelihood that some visitors may be attending the Arts Block for nefarious purposes.

    At least one poster refuses to offer any explanation as to why they must go to the Arts Block, where young female students gather between classes, rather than the National Library, if their stated reason is to simply read a book. Obviously that raises concerns that reading is not their purpose for being there, and that is a genuine security concern for the students.

    I wouldn't worry too much. Apparently the place is massively overcrowded so there isn't much chance of anything untoward happening.


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    #85
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Cavehill Red wrote: »

    However, his arrogant tone of entitlement and point-blank refusal to offer any explanation raises obvious suspicions and concerns. The only possible reason why he would prefer the noisy, overcrowded and uncomfortable space of the Arts Block over the National Library is because there are many young people present in the former. I can think of no other reason, and it is on that basis that I have suggested that this issue now be raised within the college.

    Are you on drugs or something? That is a serious accusation with little basis in conjecture, never mind fact. Get a grip.


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    #86
    The Sparrow
    Registered Users Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭The Sparrow


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    At least one poster refuses to offer any explanation as to why they must go to the Arts Block, where young female students gather between classes, rather than the National Library, if their stated reason is to simply read a book. Obviously that raises concerns that reading is not their purpose for being there, and that is a genuine security concern for the students.

    That is perhaps the single most ridiculous thing that I have ever read on boards.

    Congratulations.


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    #87
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Denerick wrote: »
    Are you on drugs or something? That is a serious accusation with little basis in conjecture, never mind fact. Get a grip.

    If he had a legitimate reason to read in TCD Arts block rather than all the other suitable locations mere seconds away from the campus, he has had many opportunities to tell us what that is by now. The fact that he has repeatedly failed to do so is of concern.


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    #88
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    If he had a legitimate reason to read in TCD Arts block rather than all the other suitable locations mere seconds away from the campus, he has had many opportunities to tell us what that is by now. The fact that he has repeatedly failed to do so is of concern.

    Hahaha, another Cavehill_Red classic!!! So I started a thread to broadcast my "nefarious purposes", did i? That even beats the "thousand people reading this thread" bit of stupidity.

    You made my day cavehill!


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    #89
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    artvandelay48 wrote: »
    Hahaha, another Cavehill_Red classic!!! So I started a thread to broadcast my "nefarious purposes", did i? That even beats the "thousand people reading this thread" bit of stupidity.

    You made my day cavehill!

    Or you could simply tell us why you absolutely must go to sit among the noisy students in the Arts Block to read your book, out of all the many more amenable locations in the city.


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    #90
    artvandelay48
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭artvandelay48


    Simply put, I don't need to report to you. So get over it...


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    #91
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    artvandelay48 wrote: »
    Simply put, I don't need to report to you. So get over it...

    Then in turn you need to get over the fact that your inability to explain this strange need of yours raises concerns.


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