Pedestrians in the cycle lane

Skrynesaver

I tend to shout "Dingaling" the impoliteness of roaring at someone is disarmed by the absurdity, that's my theory anyway

Shedite27

As a part time cyclist, part time pedestrian, there's one junction I pass regularly that bemuses me. It's the Leeson St bridge on the Canal.

So daily there's a large volume of cyclists using the cyclepath on the canal (City side). Once it gets to leeson street bridge, the cycle path ends and becomes a footpath while crossing Leeson Street - http://goo.gl/maps/QN89q

Currently, you have padestrians on the footpath walking inbound along Leeson Street, and cyclists cycling along the cyclepath at a 90 degre angle.

Common sense (and probably law) would dictate that padestrians have the right of way. The problem is that if the cyclists cross the road, to find the footpath busy, then they have to wait on the road for the padestrians to clear. Messy situation.

I'm a walker on the route regularly, and cyclists routinely believe they have the right of way on this stretch, which they don't.

bambergbike

A sharp whistle clears crows and songbirds from the road ahead for me. Stupid mountain sheep get a yell of "Beep, beep." Dogs get a yell of "Get back inside!" Tiny tots on wobbly things get an encouraging "You stay on that side, please" and "That's great cycling, thanks!"

Otherwise the standard dialogue is:

- Hello!
- Why didn't you ring your bell?
- I rang all my bells, several times, to no effect whatsoever.

magicbastarder

how about a dynamo powered water pistol?

laraghrider

bazermc wrote: »

The split pedestrian/cycle lane on the Samuel Becket Bridge is a complete disaster especially in the morning and especially as you come off the bridge at the ferry man. I am surprised I have never seen an accident.

That bridge is a complete cluster of fcuk! Coming either direction you have the beautiful situation of dodging the pedestrians in the cycle path and then suddenly being shunted together at the lights. If you are doing anything over 10km coming north to south in the evening is a mess. Cyclists coming onto the bridge, you going off it, pedestrians coming across it and everything milling in together. What makes it worse is the fact that it's half blind around to the left.

Now lets not even mention the fantastical design of the 1mt long cycle path before it on the north quays.

galwaycyclist

bambergbike wrote: »

- Hello!
- Why didn't you ring your bell?
- I rang all my bells, several times, to no effect whatsoever.

Yep my bike has two bells; a big one for big people and a small one for small people.

bambergbike

They just had a competition in Munich for films showing sweet and gentle road users being nice to each other. This is the winner:


https://www.youtube.com/embed/8q1gtkEwemo

Thought of it just now as I was musing that maybe a TV game show "BIG FAIL" electronic buzzer type noise might be a good electronic bell replacement (could be built into electronic shifters now that bikes are going electronic anyway?)

laraghrider

I stopped viewing that at Super Nintendo with a playstation controller!!!

Zyzz

NeedMoreGears

A mate was involved in a bike pile up at the Leeson St junction mentioned above. It appears pedestrian stepped out. First cyclist breaks hard and avoids pedestrian. Subsequent cyclist breaks hard and hits first cyclist. The sequence continues for some more cyclists. My mate was number three of the five cyclists on the ground afterwards. Pedestrian was aok.

I'm sure the four cyclists will be leaving a bit more distance to the cyclist in front from now on, but thankfully no-one hurt beyond a few scratches.

Muahahaha

bambergbike wrote: »

They just had a competition in Munich for films showing sweet and gentle road users being nice to each other. This is the winner:


https://www.youtube.com/embed/8q1gtkEwemo

Thought of it just now as I was musing that maybe a TV game show "BIG FAIL" electronic buzzer type noise might be a good electronic bell replacement (could be built into electronic shifters now that bikes are going electronic anyway?)

haha thats a great idea. The "BIG FAIL" sound that you get on Family Fortunes would make for a superb bike bell. That one noise instantly says to people that they're doing something wrong.

The only problem is if I had a Family Fortunes bell I wouldn't be able to resist hitting it all the time just for the reaction from people !

Shedite27

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

A mate was involved in a bike pile up at the Leeson St junction mentioned above. It appears pedestrian stepped out. First cyclist breaks hard and avoids pedestrian. Subsequent cyclist breaks hard and hits first cyclist. The sequence continues for some more cyclists. My mate was number three of the five cyclists on the ground afterwards. Pedestrian was aok.

I'm sure the four cyclists will be leaving a bit more distance to the cyclist in front from now on, but thankfully no-one hurt beyond a few scratches.

I'm shocked that doesn't happen more often but that's not a bike lane, it's a footpath for about 7/8 meters on either side of the road. Pedestrians have the right of way

SerialComplaint

ThisRegard wrote: »

Agree. There's a trend with many adult road users who completely disregard the safety or others including children, if they feel they're somewhere they shouldn't be.

Yes, just look at the two adult cyclists disregarding the safety of the little child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pHcHEIsyr4

CramCycle

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Yes, just look at the two adult cyclists disregarding the safety of the little child.

The behavior of some parents shocks me. Cycling up the grand canal one day and I was stopped on a red when I seen a couple push their pram out in front of a taxi going through a green. Luckily the taxis brakes and reaction time were awesome. The father then started giving out to the taxi.

People often bring up the cyclists should have license plates, personally I am all in favour of parents having GPS trackers so they can be ID'd and reprimanded for being incompetent.

The cyclists argument falls down on several grounds, mainly cost, reason, benefit etc. Parents are in charge of the countries most precious items, no cost is to great to protect our youth. Bring back public floggings for the shockingly incompetent ones, smoking in a car with your child, that's a paddling, pushing them in front of moving traffic, that's a paddling, bringing them up to think anti social behaviour is acceptable, you better believe that's a paddling. (feel free to replace paddling with naming and shaming/public flogging)

Rant over

bazermc

CramCycle is this you.

bambergbike

Parents who don't teach kids stuff (road sense, in particular) infuriate me. Parents who teach it wrong infuriate me more. But children who still have a fair bit to learn not being physically completely under their parents' control at all times and therefore being, to some extent, the responsibility of everybody - well, I think that's fair enough. Some children are better than others at being sensible and at taking direction, so it's not necessarily fair to condemn the parents of the more impulsive or clueless children and praise the parents of the "good" children.

In the video, I don't really see why the cyclist rounds on the parents, teaching the child nothing except that cyclists are sometimes unfriendly and like the sound of their own yelling. If the cyclist talked straight at the child instead, he could take a few seconds to explain (gently and kindly, but firmly) why randomly stepping sideways into the road into the path of traffic without looking is not a great move. And then go off on his way bathed in the warm fuzzy glow of a decent man who has just done something constructive and useful, instead of being completely irate at having had to stop.

SomeFool

Saw this and thought of this thread :pac:

RainyDay

SomeFool wrote: »

Saw this and thought of this thread :pac:

Gotta love the first few comments on the article.

monument

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'm shocked that doesn't happen more often but that's not a bike lane, it's a footpath for about 7/8 meters on either side of the road. Pedestrians have the right of way

At Leeson Street bridge?

The west side is shared use with a not so clear marked out waiting area for bicycled.

The east side is cycle path right up to the junction. The pedestrian crossing of the cycle path is set back from the junction.

Iwannahurl

Two metres of "cycle path" directing cyclists into (a) a pole and (b) pedestrians waiting on a controlled crossing. In this situation would pedestrians be in the cycle lane or cyclists on a footpath?

IMO it's a candidate for Cycle Facility of the Month, and an example of how Irish road engineers deliberately make cyclists, pedestrians and bus users fight it out among themselves while they get on with the important business of keeping cars moving. Divide and conquer.



Source:

BohsCeltic wrote: »

You can't see it from the video but i don't think the woman even knew there was lights there, too busy talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd5Rr85Qs8g

CramCycle

bambergbike wrote: »

In the video, I don't really see why the cyclist rounds on the parents,

because the parent is on the other side of the road from the child. You are right, you cannot blame parents for alot of silly things kids do. You can however call parents out on leaving their child who might not have developed common sense or great observational skills yet on the side of the road.

bambergbike

CramCycle wrote: »

because the parent is on the other side of the road from the child. You are right, you cannot blame parents for alot of silly things kids do. You can however call parents out on leaving their child who might not have developed common sense or great observational skills yet on the side of the road.

If the parents are so dopey that they fully deserve to be called out, though, that's all the more reason to grasp the opportunity to educate the child with both hands.

A few weeks ago I was on my way home from a bakery run with my three-year old niece. A random mountain biker arrived at a junction just after us and completely needlessly waited an extra two minutes for the last cyclist/pedestrian light in a badly set up series to turn green (rather than just crossing the last, quiet slip road as soon as he got a gap in traffic) because he was aware that a three-year old was watching him and drawing conclusions from his behaviour. He took a minute and a half of his life to educate a complete stranger, patiently and with a big, amused grin on his face. If more people were that mindful of their responsibilities towards traffic learners, rather than just blaming the parents or at least leaving the job entirely to the parents, children would get to the point of being able to take themselves to school independently at a much earlier age, and the misery of the school run could be largely obliterated.

In general, meddling in other people's child raising is an absolutely terrible idea. But when the issue is how children negotiate the public realm and handle interactions with others as they walk or ride their wheeled things or use public transport, they need to have some direct interaction with others to learn what they need to know.

CramCycle

bambergbike wrote: »

If more people were that mindful of their responsibilities towards traffic learners, rather than just blaming the parents or at least leaving the job entirely to the parents, children would get to the point of being able to take themselves to school independently at a much earlier age, and the misery of the school run could be largely obliterated.

I completely agree, my nephew who is just turning four, points at people who break reds and calls them bold, it is quite hilarious.

In relation to the video though, the mother left her child (maybe 3 or 4) on the other side of the road. Turned around (as in not looking at her/in her periphery) when she first came into view and then upon presumably seeing two cyclists (one in each direction), called the child across the road. There is nothing to educate the child on here. If the video taker had stopped and spoken to the child he risks abuse and detriment by the parent, if he tries to teach the child its dangerous like many a bus driver does, he is a d*ck and deserves punishment. The only person to talk to here is the parent as if he says nothing at all, the child and parent never realise the stupidity. This way there is a slim chance the parent reviews the situation and thinks, you know what, he's right and then passes this onto the child through their actions.

BoardsMember

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Yes, just look at the two adult cyclists disregarding the safety of the little child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pHcHEIsyr4

Isn't that by windy harbour? Always wondered what the story is with the ramp on the left for bikes to mount the path? I'm sure there's a good reason but can't work it out.

Shedite27

monument wrote: »

At Leeson Street bridge?

The west side is shared use with a not so clear marked out waiting area for bicycled.

Yeah it's the West Side of Leeson Street Bridge. East side is fine.

What makes you think it's shared use? IMO (again, as a cyclist), if there's no cycle lane, then you're on the footpath, which is illegal/frowned upon and should give way to pedestrians.

I cycle that way regularly and it's a badly designed pinch point (building on one side, canal lock on the other) which I feel other cyclists go through far too fast.

ThisRegard

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Yes, just look at the two adult cyclists disregarding the safety of the little child.

I don't get you ? Are we getting into a game of whataboutery ?

bambergbike

CramCycle wrote: »

There is nothing to educate the child on here.

Yep, I can see how telling the child not to heed her mother's random irresponsible commands might be a bit incendiary. And the cyclist does, in fairness, say "watch, watch, watch" to the child with both gentleless and urgency in his voice (while avoiding a collision). And it IS just baffling that the adult doesn't stay standing in the middle of the road until the child has finished crossing - I can understand how an occasional misjudgement or mishap might leave a parent and child stranded in the road in the path of an oncoming vehicle together, but not how a child that age can end in a roadway by themselves.

fiacha

First negative interaction with a pedestrian on the Phoenix Park cycle track this year. Gave a couple a couple of PING PINGs with the bell from a good distance. No response, so slowed down and PING PING PING. Instant balled fists and "use the f'ing road" from the male. I explained the situation politely... he got angrier...I returned the aggression politely and then let myself down by calling him an a-hole.

As I cycled away he shouted "ya FAT ....ugh" ...he never finished the sentence so I assumed he read the back of my jersey. I love taking the punchline away from them



I have to say that since they improved the signage on the tracks, I have had very positive interactions with people. They usually just step aside and wave or say sorry.

mrcheez

fiacha wrote: »

First negative interaction with a pedestrian on the Phoenix Park cycle track this year. Gave a couple a couple of PING PINGs with the bell from a good distance. No response, so slowed down and PING PING PING. Instant balled fists and "use the f'ing road" from the male. I explained the situation politely... he got angrier...I returned the aggression politely and then let myself down by calling him an a-hole.

I have to say that since they improved the signage on the tracks, I have had very positive interactions with people. They usually just step aside and wave or say sorry.

I've had a few encounters on that route with people flatly refusing to move, I used to go on the grass but after a nasty slip-up on the mud I've stayed on the path ever since.

Some of the "conversations" are quite revealing: many people are unaware that there is a 2nd path in among the trees until it was pointed out to them. I guess it could do with some lighting to make it more appealing/noticeable.

monument

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yeah it's the West Side of Leeson Street Bridge. East side is fine.

What makes you think it's shared use? IMO (again, as a cyclist), if there's no cycle lane, then you're on the footpath, which is illegal/frowned upon and should give way to pedestrians.

I cycle that way regularly and it's a badly designed pinch point (building on one side, canal lock on the other) which I feel other cyclists go through far too fast.

It's shared use from the waiting area on the west side of the lights to the boardwalk where the cycle path starts again.

There's a shared use sign these and there's a the bicycke crossing directing people on bicycles to the it's a really poor compromise -- they should have and will have to do something to the lock and/or bridge wall, CPO some of the property beside it, or go for a detour (the last option is harder now than ever).