Bank of Ireland shares

Jim2007

Mad_maxx wrote: »

we in ireland cant buy the DOW since american etf,s became off limits

Where in my post did I say you should by an ETF based on the DOW. It's about the worst index you could possibly pick to track, I would have thought you knew that. But if you really want to do it, then there are plenty of European Asset Managers offer it, including IE00B53L4350, LU0378437502, DE0006289390 and FR0007056841, just to mention a few.


And to correct another misunderstanding you have, there is not restriction on any EU/EEA/CH citizen buying any ETF quoted on a US exchange. There is however a restriction on US Asset Managers offering certain funds to the general public in Europe and some brokers have decided to take in one step further and prevent their clients from buying certain instruments on that basis. But that is between you and your broker.


What I actually suggested is that you go to the Valueline website, download the stock reports for the DOW 30 companies, which are freely available and do your own research and calculations. Maybe a big ask for someone that makes decisions based on their gut and what the talking heads said, but I'm not about to do it for you.

Mad_maxx

Jim2007 wrote: »

Where in my post did I say you should by an ETF based on the DOW. It's about the worst index you could possibly pick to track, I would have thought you knew that. But if you really want to do it, then there are plenty of European Asset Managers offer it, including IE00B53L4350, LU0378437502, DE0006289390 and FR0007056841, just to mention a few.


And to correct another misunderstanding you have, there is not restriction on any EU/EEA/CH citizen buying any ETF quoted on a US exchange. There is however a restriction on US Asset Managers offering certain funds to the general public in Europe and some brokers have decided to take in one step further and prevent their clients from buying certain instruments on that basis. But that is between you and your broker.


What I actually suggested is that you go to the Valueline website, download the stock reports for the DOW 30 companies, which are freely available and do your own research and calculations. Maybe a big ask for someone that makes decisions based on their gut and what the talking heads said, but I'm not about to do it for you.

are you ever off ?

Dinarius

Sold at €2.88 early this morning.

Don't like US futures for later today.

Made just under 4% after fees.

UK has reduced interest rates by 0.5% today, coz it can do and coz it had downside to do so.

EU central bank is screwed in this regard. As was pointed by one wag on Morning Ireland, ECB only option is to convince EU currency governments to borrow to bolster their economies. i.e. Add to all our respective national debts (did you know that we in Ireland owe, per capita, more than any other OECD country apart from Japan? €230bn+ and counting.)

The Euro has got touchy, feely, warm and cuddly political attractiveness in spades. It easy to see why everyone said yes to it. Make us all feel closer together.

But, in my opinion, fiscally, it has been a 21 year slow-motion car crash. It is THE elephant in the economic room. Successive bouts of quantitative easing (a fancy term for debt escalation) have failed to solve the problem of one-size fitting all. It simply doesn't work. Many of the 19 Euro countries would not now qualify for entry as originally conceived. The big two, France and Germany, in an effort to bolster the geographical buffer zone between them Russia, allowed a few basket cases to join. This made things even worse.

No one is willing to call it for the mess it is. But, apart from not flying anywhere we like and not having to carry lots of different currencies in our pockets, it isn't working - it's actually gotten far worse.

Read this for starters.

I have no idea what the solution is. But, our great-grand children will be paying off what we owe now.

In the midst of all of this, I find our huge reliance on foreign direct investment to keep our tiny, open economy running, quite alarming. (Remember that France and Germany have a long history of making and selling things - that may dip, but it will never go away. They are nothing like as exposed as we are.) We educate ourselves very well, we have the gift of english as our first language. And we have a corporate tax regime that is irresistible. So, we say to software, tech and pharmas, come on in, give us a job and we'll barely tax you. But, it makes us a hostage to fortune, literally.

[Given that the Brits have total control over their own currency, interest rates and fiscal policy, and that they had membership of the EU and the single market for about £12bn per annum, why they ever felt the need to leave can only be put down to perverse ideology. It has sweet FA to do with sound economics.]

The long-term charts are not lying about bank shares. They are strictly for day-trading. Euro denominated banks are dogs.

As long as economies in Europe continue to be run in the interests of a big few, the ECB and the Euro, I don't know how we're going to bring our debt to levels that allow us to invest in a better country.

D.

Mad_maxx

Dinarius wrote: »

Sold at €2.88 early this morning.

Don't like US futures for later today.

Made just under 4% after fees.

UK has reduced interest rates by 0.5% today, coz it can do and coz it had downside to do so.

EU central bank is screwed in this regard. As was pointed by one wag on Morning Ireland, ECB only option is to convince EU currency governments to borrow to bolster their economies. i.e. Add to all our respective national debts (did you know that we in Ireland owe, per capita, more than any other OECD country apart from Japan? €230bn+ and counting.)

The Euro has got touchy, feely, warm and cuddly political attractiveness in spades. It easy to see why everyone said yes to it. Make us all feel closer together.

But, in my opinion, fiscally, it has been a 21 year slow-motion car crash. It is THE elephant in the economic room. Successive bouts of quantitative easing (a fancy term for debt escalation) have failed to solve the problem of one-size fitting all. It simply doesn't work. Many of the 19 Euro countries would not now qualify for entry as originally conceived. The big two, France and Germany, in an effort to bolster the geographical buffer zone between them Russia, allowed a few basket cases to join. This made things even worse.

No one is willing to call it for the mess it is. But, apart from not flying anywhere we like and not having to carry lots of different currencies in our pockets, it isn't working - it's actually gotten far worse.

Read this for starters.

I have no idea what the solution is. But, our great-grand children will be paying off what we owe now.

In the midst of all of this, I find our huge reliance on foreign direct investment to keep our tiny, open economy running, quite alarming. (Remember that France and Germany have a long history of making and selling things - that may never dip, but it will never go away. They are nothing like as exposed as we are.) We educate ourselves very well, we have the gift of english as our first language. And we have a corporate tax regime that is irresistible. So, we say to software, tech and pharmas, come on in, give us a job and we'll barely tax you. But, it makes us a hostage to fortune, literally.

[Given that the Brits have total control over their own currency, interest rates and fiscal policy, and that they had membership of the EU and the single market for about £12bn per annum, why they ever felt the need to leave can only be put down to perverse ideology. It has sweet FA to do with sound economics.]

The long-term charts are not lying about bank shares. They are strictly for day-trading. Euro denominated banks are dogs.

As long as economies in Europe continue to be run in the interests of a big few, the ECB and the Euro, I don't know how we're going to bring our debt to levels that allow us to invest in a better country.

D.

Banks are pure zombies

neris

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Banks are pure zombies

Was a very good article on the Currency website a few days ago about how the ECB is basically killing off EU banks & the banking industry with regulation and interference.

Jim2007

Dinarius wrote: »

I have no idea what the solution is. But, our great-grand children will be paying off what we owe now.

You're right you have absolutely no idea and your reading material is not going to do anything to improve it.



Government debt per capita:


Germany 61%
Ireland 64%
Austria 73%
UK 81%
France 98%
Italy 134%


In Ireland the debt is down from a height of 124%, so the extra debt is LONG paid back.


Stop listening to the talking heads, the producers invite them on the air for their abilities in maximizing listeners/viewers not to give you wise insight. Every single person involved in theses shows has a different agenda to you:
- The producers need to keep the numbers of so the show survives and possible gains advertising for the networks
- The talking head needs to bring in audiences so he gets to collect fees and gets invited back
- And the sponsored talking heads, the ones employed by an AM etc, have a either a buy side or sell side position to talk up

Coil Kilcrea

Absolutely correct but it essentially means we will not have another 2008 financial meltdown since the balance sheets are much stronger. What we will have is a wave of consolidation in European banks and a move towards wealth management where the margins are much better than the traditional 'transactional' model which is cost heavy and unprofitable.

I'm referring to the point made by nerds.

Jim2007

neris wrote: »

Was a very good article on the Currency website a few days ago about how the ECB is basically killing off EU banks & the banking industry with regulation and interference.

And of course the currency website is on the side of the tax payer that has to underwrite those risks, are they?


The reality is that we don't need banks playing silly buggers with currencies for their own ends. Let the British tax payer underwrite it if they want. Beyond the basics of exchange, it brings nothing to a functioning economy only exposure to additional risk.

AlmightyCushion

Jim2007 wrote: »

You're right you have absolutely no idea and your reading material is not going to do anything to improve it.



Government debt per capita:


Germany 61%
Ireland 64%
Austria 73%
UK 81%
France 98%
Italy 134%


In Ireland the debt is down from a height of 124%, so the extra debt is LONG paid back.


Stop listening to the talking heads, the producers invite them on the air for their abilities in maximizing listeners/viewers not to give you wise insight. Every single person involved in theses shows has a different agenda to you:
- The producers need to keep the numbers of so the show survives and possible gains advertising for the networks
- The talking head needs to bring in audiences so he gets to collect fees and gets invited back
- And the sponsored talking heads, the ones employed by an AM etc, have a either a buy side or sell side position to talk up

That is not government debt per capita. Per capita is per person. Also, out debt in euro value has not decreased, it has actually increased. Our debt to GDP ratio has decreased and that is because we have grown the economy, not because we reduced the debt.

Saying that, if you look at national debt per capita like the original poster was talking about, Italy and Greece would have a higher national debt per capita than us and the likes of Belgium and US are slightly lower than ours but practically the same.

Jim2007

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

Absolutely correct but it essentially means we will not have another 2008 financial meltdown since the balance sheets are much stronger. What we will have is a wave of consolidation in European banks and a move towards wealth management where the margins are much better than the traditional 'transactional' model which is cost heavy and unprofitable.

I'm referring to the point made by nerds.

Yes I expect so, over the past 10 years or so banking has become a commodity industry and the race to the bottom still goes no. But the margins in wealth management have fallen dramatically. Back when I started out over 30 years ago we talked about percentage points, today we talk base points.


I doubt very much that any of the Irish banks will exist in their present form in 20 years or so. Most likely they will be just name plates.

Coil Kilcrea

Jim2007 wrote: »

But the margins in wealth management have fallen dramatically. Back when I started out over 30 years ago we talked about percentage points, today we talk base points.

Correct, but I suspect the JP Morgan and few others have figured out how to pivot into wealth management and generate nice margins. The survivors in Europe will hoover up the small banks and copy this model.

greenfield21

Jim2007 wrote: »

You're right you have absolutely no idea and your reading material is not going to do anything to improve it.



Government debt per capita:


Germany 61%
Ireland 64%
Austria 73%
UK 81%
France 98%
Italy 134%


In Ireland the debt is down from a height of 124%, so the extra debt is LONG paid back.


Stop listening to the talking heads, the producers invite them on the air for their abilities in maximizing listeners/viewers not to give you wise insight. Every single person involved in theses shows has a different agenda to you:
- The producers need to keep the numbers of so the show survives and possible gains advertising for the networks
- The talking head needs to bring in audiences so he gets to collect fees and gets invited back
- And the sponsored talking heads, the ones employed by an AM etc, have a either a buy side or sell side position to talk up

Per capita is for each person. You're talking about debt as percentage of GDP. Which is pointless for the reasons the previous poster described.

Dinarius

FTSE 100 now down a staggering 29%. Incredible.

BofI may be the least of people's concerns.

D.

Gatoh

"The time to buy is when there's blood in the streets."

Rothschild

Dinarius

Have to wonder if Trump and his buddies are shorting the market. Every announcement is primed to make it tank.

D.

(only a little in jest!)

Wheety

Is BOI heading towards €2?

€2.34 currently

Dinarius

Price is tanking and may continue to do so.

But, volume isn't huge.

May be a big sell thro' after the close, though.

As near as stocks get to a blood-sport.

D.

Mad_maxx

Wheety wrote: »

Is BOI heading towards €2?

€2.34 currently

All time low would be 1.75

Wheety

Mad_maxx wrote: »

All time low would be 1.75

Was that since the share consolidation?

Dinarius

Wheety wrote: »

Was that since the share consolidation?

I use DEGIRO. Chart I have gives high of €57.46 (Phew!) and low of €2.04, back in 2012.

But, chart only goes back to 2010.

D.

Wheety

Dinarius wrote: »

I use DEGIRO. Chart I have gives high of €57.46 (Phew!) and low of €2.04, back in 2012.

But, chart only goes back to 2010.

D.

Suppose the low before the consolidation was around 20c so they have probably taken that into account

Jim2007

Gatoh wrote: »

"The time to buy is when there's blood in the streets."

Rothschild

No the time to buy is when you have done your home work, understand the company and it's competitors and when it is trading at about 40% - 50% of it's valuation.

Mad_maxx

Wheety wrote: »

Was that since the share consolidation?

No but 5 cent was the 2012 low and that was very brief, 10 cent was the level through most of 2012, we are are just above 7 cents now in old money

Almost makes you nostalgic for the dour Afrikaner

Earleybird

Jim2007 wrote: »

No the time to buy is when you have done your home work, understand the company and it's competitors and when it is trading at about 40% - 50% of it's valuation.

Are you on some sort of a dare for posting the most consecutive negative, antagonistic comments in a row? Post something nice, just once. Something informative, since you're such an expert. Thanks

Mad_maxx

Earleybird wrote: »

Are you on some sort of a dare for posting the most consecutive negative, antagonistic comments in a row? Post something nice, just once. Something informative, since you're such an expert. Thanks

you would think someone who knows it all would not be wasting their time wrestling with bums like us ?

jimbo knows so much , he should be currently shorting every market across the globe , riding the bear until its back is red raw

Jim2007

Earleybird wrote: »

Are you on some sort of a dare for posting the most consecutive negative, antagonistic comments in a row? Post something nice, just once. Something informative, since you're such an expert. Thanks

I just did! I pointed out to you the best way to minimize your losses in a highly volatile market. You can’t say what will happen tomorrow, next week or next year and consequently your best option is to buy undervalued stocks. But even then, you cannot be sure of your valuations so you assume that you are maybe 40% off and buy accordingly.

I think it was Ben Graham that once said: In the short term market is a voting machine, but in the long term it’s a weighing machine. And that is as true today as when he was when he was managing money back in the 40s and the 50s.

Investing is not a social activity, you don’t do stuff because of what others do or say, you do it because you have done your home work and the opportunity presented is one that you are in a position to take advantage of.

Investing is not about being active, it’s about learning to be inactive. It’s about doing your homework and then sitting and waiting for the market to offer the right opportunity.

There are only two strategies that work in investing, you either invest in individual stocks and become a good value investor or dollar cost average on the indexes. But value investing requires a lot of work, so most people are better of dollar cost averaging, since it is not their day job.

If you are going to spend your time trying to catch falling knives, you should expect people will start to notice you’ve got a lot of cuts on your hands.

Jim2007

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you would think someone who knows it all would not be wasting their time wrestling with bums like us ?

jimbo knows so much , he should be currently shorting every market across the globe , riding the bear until its back is red raw

You in particular are a daily source of amazement not amusement, according to yourself at least, you have a sizable amount in the market and yet you don’t do any homework, you just listen to the talking heads and seek social validation for your decisions. Most of the answers to the questions you post on this forum are out there, if you’d only do your homework.

Mad_maxx

Jim2007 wrote: »

You in particular are a daily source of amazement not amusement, according to yourself at least, you have a sizable amount in the market and yet you don’t do any homework, you just listen to the talking heads and seek social validation for your decisions. Most of the answers to the questions you post on this forum are out there, if you’d only do your homework.

You must have been one of the backroom guy's in the world of finance, no way had they you out front trying to schmooze new money, you need a modicum of charm for that

Jim2007

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You must have been one of the backroom guy's in the world of finance, no way had they you out front trying to schmooze new money, you need a modicum of charm for that

Well that just shows how little you know... do you seriously think a sovereign fund or a major institution is going to let you manage CHF500m - CHF600m, just because you are a nick guy? The reality is that most of the people you going to have at the table are very well qualified technically, with many years of experience in the game and if you can't show them you know your stuff, you'll be out on the footpath in five minutes. Nobody is going to give you large chunks of their money to manage without making absolutely sure you are up to it.

Mad_maxx

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well that just shows how little you know... do you seriously think a sovereign fund or a major institution is going to let you manage CHF500m - CHF600m, just because you are a nick guy? The reality is that most of the people you going to have at the table are very well qualified technically, with many years of experience in the game and if you can't show them you know your stuff, you'll be out on the footpath in five minutes. Nobody is going to give you large chunks of their money to manage without making absolutely sure you are up to it.

no offence intended but do you have aspergers ?