Bank of Ireland shares

sk8board

I was wondering too. Have an average €1.38 so I’m happy to see where it goes.

It may be that it has indeed found the bottom. It bobbled around at €1.35 level all week after plenty gaps down.

Looking at all EU financials index (SPYX), they’re +1.6% today, so there’s nothing obvious sticking out at an eu level.

sk8board

It popped even further around 3pm, when the New York Teachers pension fund notified that they had crossed the 3% mark.
Explains the volumes and the pop perhaps.

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/BIRG/notification-of-major-holdings-y22fc7va28f5kaq.html

Dinarius

sk8board wrote: »

It popped even further around 3pm, when the New York Teachers pension fund notified that they had crossed the 3% mark.
Explains the volumes and the pop perhaps.

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/BIRG/notification-of-major-holdings-y22fc7va28f5kaq.html

Interesting.

As the directors’ buying at around €2.70 a few weeks ago proved, there are no guarantees that a big buyer will put a floor under the price.

We shall see.

D.

Mad_maxx

Dinarius wrote: »

Interesting.

As the directors’ buying at around €2.70 a few weeks ago proved, there are no guarantees that a big buyer will put a floor under the price.

We shall see.

D.

That was a tiny purchase

Dinarius

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That was a tiny purchase

It was two tranches of 75,000 shares at €2.74. Total purchase price over €400k.


I do not consider that small.


https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/directors?s=BIR:ISE


D.

manonboard

Dinarius wrote: »

It was two tranches of 75,000 shares at €2.74. Total purchase price over €400k.


I do not consider that small.


https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/directors?s=BIR:ISE


D.

im not commenting on whether its small or not. I just noticed i think there is a bug on that website. Every director dealing to me has a double entry.
This website has only 1 of each of those sales.
https://www.lse.co.uk/DirectorsDeals.asp?shareprice=BIRG&share=Bank-Of-Ireland

Mad_maxx

Dinarius wrote: »

It was two tranches of 75,000 shares at €2.74. Total purchase price over €400k.


I do not consider that small.


https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/directors?s=BIR:ISE


D.

It's not a whole lot between the top brass, management has failed to show real skin in the game for a long time

q85dw7osi4lebg

In at 1.30 this week, let's see how she goes.

Dave elle

BOI stock has been going down during the good times, how is it going to perform with very low interest rates, tracker issue, brexit and mostly likely a recession, not to mention Ireland protects home owners from default more than other countries therefore affect banks bottom line. If you compare BOI dividend and stock price to the big US and Canadian banks it is bad. I am not too familiar with European banks but a quick search of HSBC and Santander and you can see their dividend is > 10% BOI is 3.6%. After all I said, it will probably double in price tomorrow, lol.

sk8board

two very strong days of gains, currently €1.70 an up about 25-30% off the bottom from 10 days ago.

Dinarius

Another big volume up day. That’s quite a few big volume up days in the last 10 days, or so.

OBV has turned now, as have a few other indicators.

Looks like it has built a support base in the €130-150 range.

D.

Harpon

Another day of big gains. I really hope many on here weren’t persuaded from buying by boards very own Warren Buffet- Jim2007. BOI at 1.30 and AIB under 1 Euro was basically free money, we’ll never see prices that low again.

Dinarius

Harpon wrote: »

Another day of big gains. I really hope many on here weren’t persuaded from buying by boards very own Warren Buffet- Jim2007. BOI at 1.30 and AIB under 1 Euro was basically free money, we’ll never see prices that low again.

The price is undoubtedly responding to volume buying.


But, there has been no news from the banks apart from directors' and third-party share dealings.



I believe that bad news from the banks, lots of it, is inevitable.


The likes of Amazon have destroyed traditional retail and over the last ten years, or so, cities like Dublin have morphed into giant gastro-pubs. Many of these businesses could be wiped out, leaving owners and their landlords with un-payable debts. We're only at the beginning of this mess.


D.


Ps. Re the likes of Amazon: That tens of millions of livelihoods should be siphoned into the back pocket of, pretty much, one man and his few shareholders, is obscene, in my view. That he can now take his shop-keeper's cash pile and try to wipe out Netflix, makes it only worse. When is enough, enough? If ever we needed to reassess western capitalism and its insatiable greed, it is now. But, I digress.

Harpon

Dinarius wrote: »

The price is undoubtedly responding to volume buying.


But, there has been no news from the banks apart from directors' and third-party share dealings.



I believe that bad news from the banks, lots of it, is inevitable.


The likes of Amazon have destroyed traditional retail and over the last ten years, or so, cities like Dublin have morphed into giant gastro-pubs. Many of these businesses could be wiped out, leaving owners and their landlords with un-payable debts. We're only at the beginning of this mess.


D.


Ps. Re the likes of Amazon: That tens of millions of livelihoods should be siphoned into the back pocket of, pretty much, one man and his few shareholders, is obscene, in my view. That he can now take his shop-keeper's cash pile and try to wipe out Netflix, makes it only worse. When is enough, enough? If ever we needed to reassess western capitalism and its insatiable greed, it is now. But, I digress.

Of course bad news is inevitable, hence why the share prices of BOI and AIB dropped 80 percent in the space of a month. The point is, it was an overshoot and we are now seeing the price correcting.

Dinarius

I forgot to mention that S&P downgraded AIB and BofI yesterday.

BofI is now rated BBB.

Article about it in today's Irish Times.

D.

Mad_maxx

Harpon wrote: »

Another day of big gains. I really hope many on here weren’t persuaded from buying by boards very own Warren Buffet- Jim2007. BOI at 1.30 and AIB under 1 Euro was basically free money, we’ll never see prices that low again.

id be amazed if both banks dont retest the lows though they probably have some more room to run , bank of ireland was at 2.10 on st patricks day , banks have been awful for years and always fall back to where they were so it will take a long time to form some sort of bullish pattern regardless of covid 19 problems , well done on your purchase though , both banks are unquestionably dirt cheap

Mad_maxx

Dinarius wrote: »

The price is undoubtedly responding to volume buying.


But, there has been no news from the banks apart from directors' and third-party share dealings.



I believe that bad news from the banks, lots of it, is inevitable.


The likes of Amazon have destroyed traditional retail and over the last ten years, or so, cities like Dublin have morphed into giant gastro-pubs. Many of these businesses could be wiped out, leaving owners and their landlords with un-payable debts. We're only at the beginning of this mess.


D.


Ps. Re the likes of Amazon: That tens of millions of livelihoods should be siphoned into the back pocket of, pretty much, one man and his few shareholders, is obscene, in my view. That he can now take his shop-keeper's cash pile and try to wipe out Netflix, makes it only worse. When is enough, enough? If ever we needed to reassess western capitalism and its insatiable greed, it is now. But, I digress.

there was news , the ECB announced a programme in the past few days which will provide relief to banks who face repayment problems , not a game changer but positive

overkill602

Down almost 16% today if it hits €1 that will be 3.3cents at pre 30 for 1 that is leaving the bank in a dangerous position govt still owns 17%.
Will the govt find an investor as it did before or will the have to nationalize
Still lumbered with last recession's debt because of blocked re-processions should it be allowed fail?

Incidentally i sold out a few years ago and bought amzn when you interfere with the market as out govt has done it makes it dysfunctional

ShareShare

overkill602 wrote: »

Down almost 16% today if it hits €1 that will be 3.3cents at pre 30 for 1 that is leaving the bank in a dangerous position govt still owns 17%.
Will the govt find an investor as it did before or will the have to nationalize

forgive my ignorance. Why would the stock price mean nationalization is on the cards? Is it just because the share price suggests nobody will invest in them if they place more shares? Why would we nationalize this?

It's so incredible how low this stock goes. 72% this year! stunning losses.

I love how we all remember the price in old money terms. it was obviously such a memory for everyone. Every day people were talking about bank of ireland share prices.

drunkmonkey

What good with nationalization do?

overkill602

Back in the bad old of 2006 it created 178 millionaires where are they now it was €14 + to now 4-5c before 1:30

https://www.independent.ie/business/bank-of-ireland-share-rise-creates-178-millionaires-26415372.html

Supercell

Problem is wealth destruction due to the C-19 shutdown, this is just going to get worse. Wouldn't touch these shares right now.

Harpon

ShareShare wrote: »

forgive my ignorance. Why would the stock price mean nationalization is on the cards? D

I’d like to know the answer to that too.

Donald Trump

ShareShare wrote: »

forgive my ignorance. Why would the stock price mean nationalization is on the cards? Is it just because the share price suggests nobody will invest in them if they place more shares? Why would we nationalize this?

It's so incredible how low this stock goes. 72% this year! stunning losses.

I love how we all remember the price in old money terms. it was obviously such a memory for everyone. Every day people were talking about bank of ireland share prices.

I have not looked at it personally to come to that conclusion but I'd imagine the poster is looking at the share drop and concluding it is a portent of what is to come (or at least the market beginning to factor something in). And they may have put that together with their own research/information to conclude that that price is going to keep going down as perhaps they think the equity is essentially worthless.

Jim2007

overkill602 wrote: »

Down almost 16% today if it hits €1 that will be 3.3cents at pre 30 for 1 that is leaving the bank in a dangerous position govt still owns 17%.

Will the govt find an investor as it did before or will the have to nationalize
Still lumbered with last recession's debt because of blocked re-processions should it be allowed fail?

The bank is not in a bad position! Don't confuse the business of the bank with the punters on the stock exchange... The adjusted T1 ratio is about 12%, that is nearly 3 times higher than going into the last recession and about 5% higher than the accepted EU level and well within Basle III as well....

With those kind of levels there is not justification for the Government to get involved as it would not be supported in the EU, unless the actual work of bank was in question.

It remains to be seen how this will work out in the coming months and years, but right now there is no justification for an intervention.

Shedite27

I have no idea how this bank can make money anymore, the margins are so small now, they've so many branches nationwide, so many staff. And now knock on a load of defaults on top of that. It's tiny.

Wonder how long before it becomes an asset play.

Jim2007

Shedite27 wrote: »

I have no idea how this bank can make money anymore, the margins are so small now, they've so many branches nationwide, so many staff. And now knock on a load of defaults on top of that. It's tiny.

Wonder how long before it becomes an asset play.

BOI is no different from any other bank in Europe or the US for that matter... in their fight to win they turned an industry that was based on loyalty, product differentiation and research into a commodity industry.

Consolidated will happen at some point, it’s only a matter of when. As for an asset play, there is not really anything of value there. Pick any European bank and the story is the same:
- No customer loyalty, they all want free stuff
- Asset management on the cheap, just do index trackers
- IB only a money maker if you are in the top three
That leaves the loan book and consumer credit... neither of which look too healthy.

The banks have fallen along way from the old reliable pension fund stock.

BnB

I have some money to invest and I am very tempted to buy them now. There is no way they are anywhere near the utter mess they were in in 2008 and I think they are in a fairly strong position to ride this out.

NickSantigo

BnB wrote: »

I have some money to invest and I am very tempted to buy them now. There is no way they are anywhere near the utter mess they were in in 2008 and I think they are in a fairly strong position to ride this out.

Personally I wouldn't.
Think about how they make their money.
Interest Rates are so low.
The banking space is very competitive in Ireland.
The recovery from Covid-19 is going to be tough with people and business defaulting on debt.
You may be waiting a long time to see a return.

IMO there are plenty of other places to put your money right now that will give you a greater probability of positive return

Harpon

NickSantigo wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't.
Think about how they make their money.
Interest Rates are so low.
The banking space is very competitive in Ireland.
The recovery from Covid-19 is going to be tough with people and business defaulting on debt.
You may be waiting a long time to see a return.

IMO there are plenty of other places to put your money right now that will give you a greater probability of positive return

I’d disagree with most of that. There has been negative rates for a long time now, didn’t stop them making 800 million odd euro a year or so ago.
Banking is not competitive in Ireland at all, there is a duopoly between BOI and AIB. With them being able to charge 2.5 percent or more on mortgages here, there was supposed to be a wave of competitors coming to get a slice of the action, it never happened, so no chance of it happening anytime soon now.
Banks are reducing their headcount by massive amounts in the past few years, eventually that will show up in increased margins in a few years time. Example, I applied online for a loan with aib and 5 minutes after starting the application the money was in my account........imagine how many paper pushers would of been involved in that transaction years ago.
I’d also choose AIB over BOI due to their reduced exposure to brexit and better balance sheet.