Barts Ballycotton Sub 60

bart simpson

Wednesday 14th Dec

very cold out there today, the only clean shorts i had were short racing ones so id say i looked mental running around the town in them when the puddles i ran past were frozen, and the wind made it all the worse, great to have it done.

9.25 miles @ 8:08mm

bart simpson

Thursday 15th Dec

did a hilly route today, great day for a run, lovely bright sunny winters day

7.75 miles @8:17mm

NoGutsNoGlory

are you running before work in the am?
a lot of ice on the roads this am

bart simpson

NoGutsNoGlory wrote: »

are you running before work in the am?
a lot of ice on the roads this am

no running in the afternoon and evening, yeah the last week was very cold! well done on waterford! are you going to start up a log so we can see your secret training:D

Friday 16th Dec

did this session down by the river, was pretty cold but once i got going it was grand.
7.64 miles with 5 x 1 mile with 90 sec recovery
6:18
6:17
6:18
6:16
6:18
didnt feel too hard, but felt like i was working, and id say it is my current 10 mile race pace, im going to do a 5 mile time trail jan 6/7th

my next session on the plan is 5 miles at race pace plus 20 seconds, but thats 6:38 which is only 10 seconds faster than marathon pace....should i not be doing this at LT pace Larry?

Seres

what pace did you intend doin that session at ? reps were really consistent

bart simpson

Seres wrote: »

what pace did you intend doin that session at ? reps were really consistent

6:18, yeah once i have my garmin on i try and hit the splits as best i can, i still allow for hills and wind but all things being equal i try to be within 2 sec of target pace, its good practice for racing to be anal about splits in sessions:D

Seres

bart simpson wrote: »

6:18, yeah once i have my garmin on i try and hit the splits as best i can, i still allow for hills and wind but all things being equal i try to be within 2 sec of target pace, its good practice for racing to be anal about splits in sessions:D

I know what ya mean , ya gotta be hitting the targets fairly comfortably early on in the program . how does the session progress , you be increasing the number of reps or the pace ?. Why did you pick that pace ?

bart simpson

Seres wrote: »

I know what ya mean , ya gotta be hitting the targets fairly comfortably early on in the program . how does the session progress , you be increasing the number of reps or the pace ?. Why did you pick that pace ?

im following the program that Larry Brent posted up on the first page of this log, he told me to run the sessions at current race pace for 10 miles, id say my current race pace for 10 miles would be somewhere between 6:12 and 6:20. If you look at his program yes the reps increase and after i do a time trail in jan il increase the pace in line with how well i do in the time trial, then i hope to increase the pace again after the dungarvan 10 mile at the end of january. i have always trained easy and raced hard, so i think his program will suit me and is the best for me. not that the sessions are easy either. i think they are kinda stamina speed sessions, half way between vo2 and LT, but thats only a guess, you would have to ask Larry

Larry Brent

bart simpson wrote: »

my next session on the plan is 5 miles at race pace plus 20 seconds, but thats 6:38 which is only 10 seconds faster than marathon pace....should i not be doing this at LT pace Larry?

That was a great session with the consistent splits. Once you do 4 x 2m and 3 x 3m in the same way you'll be ready to roll.

Re the 5m session, when I wrote out the plan, I was thinking 10-20s slower than race pace, but just wrote down 20 to be on the safe side (always better to be a bit too slow than too fast in training). The fact that you are actually training at current pace and not goal pace would leave me happy enough for you to go towards the race pace + 10s as long as it's comfortable.

Regardless, this will probably be a fairly comfortable session - but 8m at that effort not as comfortable but very important. So this is really more preparing you to get ready for 8m at that effort by adding a mile every 2nd week (as you'll only do them once a fortnight).

But just because it might be relatively comfortable don't fall into the trap of pushing the pace too much. Even if you were to do this as a 'short tempo' as opposed to a 'build up to a long tempo', the pace recommended by tergat who used to post here would be 5k pace + 30-45s. For you, that would be 6:20-6:35 pace (assuming a 5k pace of 5:50 based on your 5m time).

So 6:28 pace or so might be okay, but again base it on effort, should be more comfortable than your mile reps.

Note also that marathon pace minus 10s isn't to be sneezed at! That's a good effort.

Just looking back over some old data there I saw that when I ran 5:53 pace for 10m 1 year, my 8m tempos were at 6:20 - 6:30 pace even though I wanted them to be at 6:10 pace.

Remember the key session every week is the race pace one. So you want to nail these, hence need to be somewhat fresh for them. Killing yourself on the secondary session won't help that. The secondary sessions are alternating between a tad faster than race pace and a tad slower so that you'll be well trained at race pace but also around race pace. The 2nd last week before the race you'll be doing 3 x 3m at race pace and 8m long tempo. If you nail those, the race will be a breeze. So you're just preparing yourself to get int the shape to be able to nail those. You don't need to be there now, but you'll get there. Push it too hard and you won't.

Make sure you keep the long run up (doesn't have to be to long, doesn't have to be hard) and keep the easy runs easy, don't miss them. It would be nice to be hitting 60 miles a week in Jan and Feb.

All the best with it.


Edit: forgot to say, based on your 5m race, I think you might be okay to hit 6:00-6:05 pace for the faster than race pace session as opposed to 6:08 (race pace minus 10s)

Larry Brent

Seres wrote: »

I know what ya mean , ya gotta be hitting the targets fairly comfortably early on in the program . how does the session progress , you be increasing the number of reps or the pace ?. Why did you pick that pace ?

I recommended 6:20 as current 10m race pace based on Saturday's 5m time and Frank Horwills rule of thumb - when you double the race distance expect to add 16s per mile (or 4s for a lap of the track).

So he ran 6:03 pace, 6:20 might be about right for 10m. If he trains at this level he will gradually get fitter and hopefully be the first Sunday in March he'll be at 5:59 pace or better.

Training needs to be specific to the goal race (once base has been built up etc.) so the key session will be at race pace. Need to get in a position to be able to do close to 10m at race pace, so 3 x 3m is a nice final session. To get in shape to do this you'll probably need to progress up to it as it's pretty demanding. So starting with shorter reps and gradually progressing as on the schedule on page 1.

Secondly he'll need to be used to running continuously, relatively hard for up to an hour. To do this long tempos will be used, topping at 8m. So it's probably advisable that these are slightly slower than race pace and again a gradual build up should get the body there without causing to much stress. This secondary session will be alternated weekly with a CV (critical velocity) session This is faster than race pace so will keep him in touch with speed (not that this will be needed for a 10 mile) but tergat has said that this works VO2 max and LT so good value for money.

On this programme pace may progress but not on purpose - this will occur due to increased fitness. Effort will be constant - he will be putting in the same effort in the first week as the last big week, only on week 1 the total volume of sessions will be 6-8m, but by the last week this total will be 17m. So the volume at the same intensity will increase rather than the actual intensity if you get what I mean.

bart simpson

Thanks larry:)

Saturday 17th Dec

16 mile @ 8:55, on the slow side, was chatting with the training buddies, no harm i got the time on feet.

bart simpson

Sunday 18th Dec
8 miles @ 7:57 on a hilly loop
61.4 miles this week, really happy with that, but alas i know the next two weeks wont be in the 60s with different things over the xmas the milage will be lower, i think what i will do is make sure i get the important sessions in both weeks, run 4/5 days out of the 7 for both weeks, and that can be the one allowed recovery week used up.

8 miles @ 7:57 on a hilly loop

NoGutsNoGlory

my secret training is ...........................................
why didnt you run the senior county XC 10km today..??. very tough course... hardship..

bart simpson

NoGutsNoGlory wrote: »

my secret training is ...........................................
why didnt you run the senior county XC 10km today..??. very tough course... hardship..

im not in a club, how did you get on? would you be up for a 5 mile time trial after xmas?

bart simpson

Monday 19th Dec

6 miles @ 8:44, just an easy trot tonight, i was out on the beer last night so just happy to get anything done today

bart simpson

Tuesday 20th Dec

9 miles with 5 @ at race pace +10 seconds

1 mile warm up
6:28
6:28
6:27
6:27
6:27
3 mile cool down

might try and get the other session done xmas eve

Seres

Training is goin well , did you hit your target miles/sessions last week ?

bart simpson

Seres wrote: »

Training is goin well , did you hit your target miles/sessions last week ?

Hiya seres , yeah i happy enough with how its going so far, i did 61 miles last week, thats a lot for me, but i dont feel tired or overtrained, im looking forward to janurary and getting the head down and putting in some good work, have the hot yoga tonight, its a great way of making me do some stretching, so il try and keep that up over the winter.

cwgatling

This log is an absolute mine of information, thanks lads.

Best of luck with the goals Bart would love to get there myself some day soon.

Seres

bart simpson wrote: »

Hiya seres , yeah i happy enough with how its going so far, i did 61 miles last week, thats a lot for me, but i dont feel tired or overtrained, im looking forward to janurary and getting the head down and putting in some good work, have the hot yoga tonight, its a great way of making me do some stretching, so il try and keep that up over the winter.

Thats a good weeks work this time a year . It will stand to you in January if you can train over xmas . The xmas drinking can make it tricky ..... Will you try and do training /speed work over xmas ?

bart simpson

Seres wrote: »

Thats a good weeks work this time a year . It will stand to you in January if you can train over xmas . The xmas drinking can make it tricky ..... Will you try and do training /speed work over xmas ?

yeah i am going to do my sessions, i cant afford not to, its going to be some challenge to go from 30:15 for 5 miles to 59:59 for 10 miles, il need every day i can!. im not going to be drinking that much, its not worth it and i cant handle hangovers anymore, i hope to get 50 miles in this week

Seres

bart simpson wrote: »

yeah i am going to do my sessions, i cant afford not to, its going to be some challenge to go from 30:15 for 5 miles to 59:59 for 10 miles, il need every day i can!. im not going to be drinking that much, its not worth it and i cant handle hangovers anymore, i hope to get 50 miles in this week

have you factored in hangover days ?

asimonov

NoGutsNoGlory wrote: »

my secret training is ...........................................
why didnt you run the senior county XC 10km today..??. very tough course... hardship..

Agreed. Can't imagine there's a tougher one in Leinster. Would make a brilliant provincial course, but I think we' need showers etc. Bart, if you need someone to do a time trial or long tempo with I'd be willing and possibly able.

NoGutsNoGlory

bart simpson wrote: »

im not in a club, how did you get on? would you be up for a 5 mile time trial after xmas?

join KK harriers. check out the website for details.
there is a few races during the year..well worth while:)..

i'll get back to you re time trial.. see how Christmas goes.. have major race early next year so all systems go for that come 1st jan... (no logs or plans for me:D)

bart simpson

@ seres, yeah im just going to have to play by ear and see how it pans out, if i say to myself that i am going to have to run on a hangover, two things can happen, when i am out i will drink more sensible because i know i will suffer, or drunk bart wont give a toss about running bart in which caes il suffer on the run the next day and will eventually learn! im going to do my long run of 15 miles tomorrow, that will leave me with 20 miles left to reach 50 in the following 4 days.

@ asimionov, yeah that would be great regarding the time trail il get in contact with you in early jan and see if we can find a suitable time

@Noguts, whats the major race? you doing a spring marathon? your target must be sub 2:50

bart simpson

Wednesday 21st of Dec

15.20 mile @ 8:22 m/m
had to do this on my own and it was tedious, dragged myself around. glad to have it out of the way for the week

village runner

WHY re you running so slow ?

bart simpson

village runner wrote: »

WHY re you running so slow ?

are you refering to the easy miles or sessions, or both?

village runner

bart simpson wrote: »

are you refering to the easy miles or sessions, or both?

Lets say tht your are in much better shape than i m but a sub 3 runner running 15 at 8.22 pace would be boring exp.
Most runners runner too fast but your taking the mick. I bet you could drink 10 pints and run 15 @ 8.22 pace.........on your way home.:D:D

bart simpson

village runner wrote: »

Lets say tht your are in much better shape than i m but a sub 3 runner running 15 at 8.22 pace would be boring exp.
Most runners runner too fast but your taking the mick. I bet you could drink 10 pints and run 15 @ 8.22 pace.........on your way home.:D:D

yeah it was casual enough but i had a session yesterday and another one on saturday, the long run is only done to keep my fuel tank big, im not going to make myself tired by doing it at 7:22 pace.
how are you anyway, are you back on track now?