TV License, are inspectors becoming agressive?

regisss

I read coouple of threads out here regarding TV licenses, I'm just wondering if inspectors are getting more agressive these days.

First of all, I am receiving from time to time letters addressed to "The occupant" which I never bothered responding to.
I do not have a TV in my apartment and today I received a charming letter:
"Unfortunately he/she did not speak to you at this time, but he/she did observe evidence of a Television Set at the premises on that date
[...]
and as such further action will now be taken unless a TV license is purchased immediately"

I only have a PC monitor and couple of computers at home, nothing else.
I live in the 2nd floor (they cant have spotted anything from the street), and inspectors never came to knock afaik or let any messages under my door.

How come they observed a TV in my house; do you think I should contact them to ask?
What kind of actions are they talking about?

noxqs

I don't have a TV either and I wrote an email to an posts TV license office explaining that I did not appreciate being treated like a guilty person.

I did get a nice email back that they'd stop harrassing me which they did - they also managed to delete me in their An Post database which means I got no mail for 3 months until i copped on. So yeah, it takes a while to deal with them. They assume everyone has a TV and treat you as an evader.

I'd be more than happy to show them around my place to make sure they are satisfied I comply with regulations however - they show up at 3pm, 1pm, 12 noon etc.. I am at work.

My situation took about 6 months to resolve. I would give them a call and explain the situation - email etc seems to be treated hamfistedly (see earlier point about being purged from An posts database _entirely_..).

the_syco

regisss wrote: »

I only have a PC monitor and couple of computers at home, nothing else.

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

Every household, business or institution in Ireland with a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (using an aerial, satellite dish, cable or other means) must have a television licence.

Not sure if that means watching RTE player on your PC...

Lemming

the_syco wrote: »

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html


Not sure if that means watching RTE player on your PC...

It would probably only relate to streaming live broadcasting, otherwise the term "other means" is there to cover the likes of TV cards or similar that are capable of receiving & converting broadcast signals for PC/Laptops. The important word in both cases is "broadcast". In the UK for example, if you stream live television you need a license, but otherwise - no. In order to stream live feeds from BBC iPlayer for example, you need to specifically activate them, so you couldn't plead ignorance. Simply having "d'internet" does not mean you need a license.

TBH, the letters I received in the UK are just as guilt-assuming and threatening. I never received anything that blatantly made up bullsh*t about "oh we saw something that indicated, etc. etc." it's all stock letters used to try and intimidate people.

Everything I've written above pertains to UK law, so there may be some subtle differences although otherwise I should imagine the criteria around the matter would be remarkably similar.

John Mason

why havent you just ticked the box on the back of letter to say you do not have a TV set and sent it back

its hardly rocket science - computers are not mind readers. you need to let them know you dont have a TV to stop the computer generated letters being sent

phil1nj

irishbird wrote: »

why havent you just ticked the box on the back of letter to say you do not have a TV set and sent it back

its hardly rocket science - computers are not mind readers. you need to let them know you dont have a TV to stop the computer generated letters being sent

Surely that's missing the point. The OP stated that they received a letter stating that the inspector had observed a TV being used on the premises (of a 2nd floor building that doesn't have a TV set). The issue here is An Post appear to be adopting a scare mongering approach to trying to get the individual to sign up and pay for a licence. So whilst computers may not be mind readers TV licence inspectors need to start doing their job properly i.e. speaking with tennants/occupants and verifying that there is actually a need for a licence BEFORE these letters are sent out.

Smacks of laziness on their part if you ask me.

syklops

capable of receiving a television signal

RTE Player is not a signal. What they mean is if you modified a microwave so it could recieve a TV signal then you would need a license for it.

Surely that's missing the point. The OP stated that they received a letter stating that the inspector had observed a TV being used on the premises

What the op said was:

but he/she did observe evidence of a Television Set

What I would imagine is the case is that a previous tenant of the OPs flat had UPC or some other cable television subscription. The address is still listed in An Posts database as having cable, even if the subscription is no longer in place. This is the 'evidence' that the OP has a TV. They should send you out a form called , I think its called a Declaration of Ownership. Where you sign and swear whether or not you have a TV. If you do, you can go buy a license, state that you have one and fill in the number of the license, or you can swear that you dont have one. They will generally leave you alone after that, if you declare you don't have one, but if they discover that you do have a TV, you will be in big trouble for making false claims.

phil1nj

syklops wrote: »

What I would imagine is the case is that a previous tenant of the OPs flat had UPC or some other cable television subscription. The address is still listed in An Posts database as having cable, even if the subscription is no longer in place. This is the 'evidence' that the OP has a TV. They should send you out a form called , I think its called a Declaration of Ownership. Where you sign and swear whether or not you have a TV. If you do, you can go buy a license, state that you have one and fill in the number of the license, or you can swear that you dont have one. They will generally leave you alone after that, if you declare you don't have one, but if they discover that you do have a TV, you will be in big trouble for making false claims.

Right, just like if I have milk in my fridge then it follows that I must own a cow????

Like I said, this is just laziness on their part. These computer generated letters are sent out because it excuses inspectors from actually having to talk to the current owners/occupiers of a residence to determine if they actually have a TV set which is, you know, their job.

syklops

phil1nj wrote: »

Right, just like if I have milk in my fridge then it follows that I must own a cow????

Like I said, this is just laziness on their part. These computer generated letters are sent out because it excuses inspectors from actually having to talk to the current owners/occupiers of a residence to determine if they actually have a TV set which is, you know, their job.

There is only one way to watch cable TV and thats with a TV. So why would one have a cable connection and not have a TV. It is logical.

Its not laziness, its the cheaper option. Its very expensive to send inspectors around to every premises in the country and interrogate the occupants, especially when they have no power to enter a premises without permission.

As another poster said, tick the box that states you do not have a TV and send it back.

phil1nj

syklops wrote: »

There is only one way to watch cable TV and thats with a TV. So why would one have a cable connection and not have a TV. It is logical.

Its not laziness, its the cheaper option. Its very expensive to send inspectors around to every premises in the country and interrogate the occupants, especially when they have no power to enter a premises without permission.

As another poster said, tick the box that states you do not have a TV and send it back.

I had a UPC subscription up until 2 years ago which I cancelled. They took away the set top box, but they left the aerial in place along with the cabling. Now do I have a TV set based on this evidence? You cannot state conclusively yes or no. If however someone were to knock on the door and engage in coversation with me (the owner) then they would get a definitive answer one way of the other.

The cost factor is irrelavant IMO. I consider the licence fee unfair and outdated (but that's a seperate argument) but if I'm expected to pay it every year or face a fine then I really do think that the group that has agreed to police it should do it properly (cost be damned) if they can't then that's their problem but I won't lose any sleep over factually incorrect letters that may or may not arrive through my door. I'd go all the way to court just for sh*ts and grins.

Pat Rabbitte has stated in the past that he wants to move away from the traditional licence fee and move towards a household charge that covers all forms of broadcast media (TV, Radio, Internet etc). This would prevent such breakdowns in logic that we have above and would cover the question about PCs and TV streaming also. It does not, however, address the current situation where I have to pay a licence fee for channels that I choose not to watch.

syklops

I had a UPC subscription up until 2 years ago which I cancelled. They took away the set top box, but they left the aerial in place along with the cabling. Now do I have a TV set based on this evidence? You cannot state conclusively yes or no. If however someone were to knock on the door and engage in coversation with me (the owner) then they would get a definitive answer one way of the other.

This is the last time I will post here. I am not defending An Post or their actions I was just trying to explain to you why you got the letter.

An Post can not check the UPC database. They dont know the set top box was taken away, they do not know the subscription has ended. All they know is that there is a cable going into your flat. They are not stating that you conclusively do or do not have a TV, they said they had seen evidence of a TV being there(the cable/aerial).

Now as I see it, you posted in Accomodation and Property to get advice on what to do. I and others have suggested you tick the box on the form, stating you have no TV and send it back.

If you want to get into a discussion on how An Post should police TV licensing, I suggest you create a topic elsewhere.

gurramok

syklops is correct. An Post send that letter to every dwelling which is not on their TV licence database. They are fishing for any possible evaders by addressing it to the occupant and are hoping you pay up without actually inspecting if you have a tv or not. The inspecting part is costing them a fortune hence the govt did indicate they may change the way the tv licence is collected in future.
And yes, they cannot access the UPC database. They can only access their own mailing system and the electoral register for info on who is living at the address but that ain't bulletproof as alot of people get other people's mail and we know the electoral register is a mess.

phil1nj

gurramok wrote: »

syklops is correct. An Post send that letter to every dwelling which is not on their TV licence database. They are fishing for any possible evaders by addressing it to the occupant and are hoping you pay up without actually inspecting if you have a tv or not. The inspecting part is costing them a fortune hence the govt did indicate they may change the way the tv licence is collected in future.
And yes, they cannot access the UPC database. They can only access their own mailing system and the electoral register for info on who is living at the address but that ain't bulletproof as alot of people get other people's mail and we know the electoral register is a mess.

Of course they're fishing for evaders. But the issue of cost is constantly being raised here. Sending threatening letters to people who don't actually have a TV set is lazy, inefficient and downright ignorant. But sure what the hell, its the cheapest option available. How many of these letters are sent to empty houses, to people who already have TV licences or even to residents who no longer live at a particular address? Probably still cheaper than having people go door to door but the only solution presented so far was to have people contact An Post directly and tell them that they are incorrect. Sorry, I don't agree with that, if An Post want to try and prosecute someone for something that is obviously not true, good luck to them. From my experience the courts love timewasters.

reprazant

You must be extremely thin skinned.

It is a generic letter posted to everyone. I got one. It said that they saw evidence if a tv but no license so please get a license. Then it also says that if I don't have one, just tick this box and send it back.

They are just covering the bases. I would say that over 90% of homes have a tv. Its not exactly difficult to see why they assume, especially as the previous resident of your premises probably had a tv license.

I can't believe people actually get offended by things like this.

phil1nj

reprazant wrote: »

You must be extremely thin skinned.

It is a generic letter posted to everyone. I got one. It said that they saw evidence if a tv but no license so please get a license. Then it also says that if I don't have one, just tick this box and send it back.

They are just covering the bases. I would say that over 90% of homes have a tv. Its not exactly difficult to see why they assume, especially as the previous resident of your premises probably had a tv license.

I can't believe people actually get offended by things like this.

I'm not thinnned skinned (far from it). I just don't agree with their blanket policy of sending letters out threatening people (for the reasons stated above). I won't take that kind of nonsense from anyone else for any other service. Hope that's ok? You know, to have a different opinion to other people?

mikom

reprazant wrote: »

You must be extremely thin skinned.

It is a generic letter posted to everyone. I got one. It said that they saw evidence if a tv but no license so please get a license. Then it also says that if I don't have one, just tick this box and send it back.

They are just covering the bases. I would say that over 90% of homes have a tv. Its not exactly difficult to see why they assume, especially as the previous resident of your premises probably had a tv license.

I can't believe people actually get offended by things like this.

Dear occupant,
You may have been speeding on the M50 during the past month.
If you did speed then please forward a cheque for eighty Euro to your local Garda station.
If you did not speed then please tick the "I did not speed" box on the rear of this letter.
Thanks for reading this and doing our job for us.

smelltheglove

An inspector knocked on my door the other day. We are living here a few months and never transferred over the old licence which as it happens went out of date. Anyway, when he knocked he was looking for the previous occupant, I explained to him that honestly, no my licence was out of date fro the old house and it had slipped my mind, no point in making up a waffle, I can be forgetful at the best of times! Turns out though, the fella was really nice, he took our names, crossed off the old name and said not to worry about it until they post us a reminder letter which we got today.

Mister Dread

I never take my licence with me. If I really feel the pressure is on I get one on a direct debit. If I then leave at any point I just cancel the direct debit. You usually get another year in hte new place before the pressure comes on again.

regisss

reprazant wrote: »

You must be extremely thin skinned.

It is a generic letter posted to everyone. I got one. It said that they saw evidence if a tv but no license so please get a license. Then it also says that if I don't have one, just tick this box and send it back.

They are just covering the bases. I would say that over 90% of homes have a tv. Its not exactly difficult to see why they assume, especially as the previous resident of your premises probably had a tv license.

I can't believe people actually get offended by things like this.

I received couple of these letters alright over the last 2 years I live in my current place.
The last one I received was definitely different than this one, they clearly mentioned "further action will now be taken" and not "oh please give us money"

Thanks all for your replies, I was especially shocked by noxqs's response (1st one) who mentioned he was removed off the mail database o_O
I can't afford to waste time being thrown to court, having an argument on my front door to whether or not I have a tuner in my house or even stop receiving mails.

Perhaps they will see my 27" monitor as a tv, and will throw me in court for that? Stupid.
I will pay these 160€ for now, and see what'll be coming up next year. Hopefully I will move house before then.

Thanks.

Lemming

regisss wrote: »

I received couple of these letters alright over the last 2 years I live in my current place.
The last one I received was definitely different than this one, they clearly mentioned "further action will now be taken" and not "oh please give us money"

Thanks all for your replies, I was especially shocked by noxqs's response (1st one) who mentioned he was removed off the mail database o_O
I can't afford to waste time being thrown to court, having an argument on my front door to whether or not I have a tuner in my house or even stop receiving mails.

Perhaps they will see my 27" monitor as a tv, and will throw me in court for that? Stupid.
I will pay these 160€ for now, and see what'll be coming up next year. Hopefully I will move house before then.

I should have kept some of the ones I've received in the UK over the last two years and scanned them for you. They get very threatening, claiming a "file" has been opened, 'active investigation' that is so thorough that they can't even tell who to address the letter to, etc, etc. Oh and if you are taken to court you will be allowed by the TV inspectors to bring the pamphlet with you :rolleyes:

It's simple intimidation to panic people who do not know their rights into shelling out money without question. If you do not have equipment currently capable of receiving a television broadcast signal then tell them as such rather than hand them money that you don't have to. For easy example, if you have a TV that requires additional equipment to receive a broadcast signal (and you don't have that equipment for whatever reason, TV is broken but just sitting there, etc.) well then your TV is incapable of receiving a broadcast signal.

I'm not sure of the law regarding streaming live content over the internet in Ireland though; you may want to check on that one. By 'streaming' I am not talking about having a TV-receiver card in your PC (in which case get yourself a license), but via the internet.

syklops

I'm not sure of the law regarding streaming live content over the internet in Ireland though; you may want to check on that one. By 'streaming' I am not talking about having a TV-receiver card in your PC (in which case get yourself a license), but via the internet.

Streaming is not mentioned in the statute. It refers to the television signal.

There was a thread on After Hours some time back that highlighted the wording and someone asked "If you have the internet and can access RTE iPlayer do you now need a license". Despite loads of knee-jerk responses it was shown conclusively that they refer to the television signal, as in the radio waves broadcast by RTE. And no, if you access the internet over wifi, that does not mean you now have to get a television license.

fenris

Don't forget your radio license if you don't have a TV!

I kid you not.

syklops

fenris wrote: »

Don't forget your radio license if you don't have a TV!

I kid you not.

It is no longer necessary to have a radio license.

mike65

irishbird wrote: »

why havent you just ticked the box on the back of letter to say you do not have a TV set and sent it back

its hardly rocket science - computers are not mind readers. you need to let them know you dont have a TV to stop the computer generated letters being sent

I have a reminder and there is no option to tick a box indicating you no longer have a receiver.

mikom

regisss wrote: »

I read coouple of threads out here regarding TV licenses, I'm just wondering if inspectors are getting more agressive these days.

First of all, I am receiving from time to time letters addressed to "The occupant" which I never bothered responding to.
I do not have a TV in my apartment and today I received a charming letter:
"Unfortunately he/she did not speak to you at this time, but he/she did observe evidence of a Television Set at the premises on that date
[...]
and as such further action will now be taken unless a TV license is purchased immediately"

I only have a PC monitor and couple of computers at home, nothing else.
I live in the 2nd floor (they cant have spotted anything from the street), and inspectors never came to knock afaik or let any messages under my door.

How come they observed a TV in my house; do you think I should contact them to ask?
What kind of actions are they talking about?

More lies from inspectors here............ http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056467654
Sickening.

JaneyMacker

Just ignore it.
I dont answer the door to anyone.
If its someone who knows me they will ring me first.
No TV license inspector will get to me.

gurramok

Mr.S wrote: »

You seriously ignore the doorbell if your not expecting someone

I don't. If someone was dropping over to me, they do text me as it does save them the journey if i'm not in! Yeh mobile phones have taken over our lives