Changing from dry dog food to raw/barf

Optimum

Following on from the orijen food thread, I am looking at changing our two on to raw/barf foods.
We have two (mad) vizslas, Fizzy is 13 months, the young lad, Digger is 12 weeks, fizzy has been on royal canin from we got her and digger has been started on pro-plan puppy, I have just about enough dry food to do the two of them to after Christmas, and am looking to get them on to the same food so no better time to change over to raw/Barf.

I think getting started is the hardest thing to do...maybe I'm just over thinking it, (or not thinking).. how much to feed? What to feed? What not to feed?? What can the pup eat? What's the difference between Barf and raw?
Has anyone any experience with the above or can anyone recommend any good sites/books to look up.

Thanks,
K.

(Apologies if this has been done to death here!)

are you serious

I was literally thinking of posting the same thread!! I went today to buy what I hope will be my(their) last bag of food now that I have made the decision that it will be the last bag.

I am thinking the same thing that getting started is the hardest anyway...

Bullseye1

Excuse my ignorance but what is "barf"?

are you serious

I suppose it should be put as B.A.R.F

It stands for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food, basically meat and bones and a few vegetables all put together to give the dog the best diet possible, no additives or extra's!

TooManyDogs

When I was thinking of switching my lot over I bought a little book by Carina Beth MacDonald - Raw dog food
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raw-Dog-Food-Making-Work/dp/1929242093/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322167311&sr=1-1

It's dead easy to read and breaks the raw diet up into easy information. Mine went on raw food the week after I read that and have been great ever since.

Bullseye1

I think I'll give this a try in the new year. I've enough dry food until then.

DBB

Dogsfirst who posts here has some super info on his site www.dogsfirst.ie. The site is under development but there is a link to a nice chunk of info on the whole home-made food area.
I feel the usual barf recommendations are rather rigid and a bit off-putting as a result, but I find dogsfirst's approach is more relaxed, makes more sense (to me anyway!) and works well. I know many barf owners are moving towards this more relaxed, holistic approach, because it is easier. It also confirms that it's okay to lightly cook the food if you prefer, which I do.
I think I've read it right anyway, maybe dogsfirst will come along and clarify!
Great to hear you're all making the leap, you won't regret it!

Bullseye1

Is there any info on how to protect gums with this type of diet? Is it similar to dry food?

TooManyDogs

I feed raw bones so crunching the bones helps keep their teeth and gums healthy. My lot's teeth are actually cleaner than they were on dry food.

ppink

Just for those of you considering feeding raw I recently got 30kg of raw chicken Pet food from a poultry company for €16. I was amazed at the quality of it, lots of meat, some bone.
In the supermarkets a 1.3kg chicken is 3.49..so about 2.68/kg, from the factory direct it worked out at 53c/kg.

TooManyDogs

ppink wrote: »

Just for those of you considering feeding raw I recently got 30kg of raw chicken Pet food from a poultry company for €16. I was amazed at the quality of it, lots of meat, some bone.
In the supermarkets a 1.3kg chicken is 3.49..so about 2.68/kg, from the factory direct it worked out at 53c/kg.

Bloody hell that's good value! Does it come in one huge frozen lump though?

FoxyVixen

ppink wrote: »

Just for those of you considering feeding raw I recently got 30kg of raw chicken Pet food from a poultry company for €16. I was amazed at the quality of it, lots of meat, some bone.
In the supermarkets a 1.3kg chicken is 3.49..so about 2.68/kg, from the factory direct it worked out at 53c/kg.

Do they deliver? Would love more info how to get in touch with them.

are you serious

Where was that from ppink??

Shanao

The things that have put me off changing over to RAW are the price and trying to work out how much to feed. Does anyone have a general idea of how much it would cost to feed a 60kg 14month old, a 45kg 10month old, and a 10kg five month old pup a week? And how much each one would need a day? Although at the moment I'm considering doing a half dry half raw feed to see how they get on with that.

ppink

I called them ahead of time and I'd say the took it out of the freezer as it was part frozen. 2 x 15kg packs fully sealed.
I got it from Cappoquin poultry in Waterford but I would imagine any fo the poultry places would have it. I did collect it as it was my first time getting it and I wanted to see it. I was going to ask them if they could fire ona few packs to a truck coming my direction and I could meet them....not sure it they can do that though.

I did not feed it raw..I cooked it all, minced it and froze it (9 hours it took ). will be looking at feedign raw next time.

It is for pets, not humans but there were loads of chicken breasts and good meat in the packs I got:)

TooManyDogs

Ppink - were there any bones in it? Or just meat?

Shano - Here's the guide I use
feed 2 - 10% of your dogs body weight, puppies and small dogs can eat between 5 - 10%, working dogs can eat more than 2%

I make my meals up like this
60% raw meaty bones
20% muscle meat
10% organs
10% veggies

toadfly

I have been thinking of doing this but have enough dry to last 6-8 weeks. Only problem is I go to my mams house 2 or 3 weekends a month and would be a pain organising food for the weekend. What about when they go into kennels then, would they have to go back on dry?

Only have a standard fridge/freezer as well, how much meat would I need to keep?

Ppink is it ok to get the half frozen chicken, refreeze and feed to the dogs?

ppink

Yes there were bones in it. It was not full of carcasses though, majority meat. I was unsure at first but for €8 I thought I would try it and see.

Tilly I think you can order it fresh, mine had a kill date on it of only a couple of days before I got it. I cooked it and then froze again. Probably best if feeding raw to get it fresh and then freeze in smaller bags.
I have a full height freezer and most of it is dog food:rolleyes:.

DBB

Shanao wrote: »

The things that have put me off changing over to RAW are the price and trying to work out how much to feed. Does anyone have a general idea of how much it would cost to feed a 60kg 14month old, a 45kg 10month old, and a 10kg five month old pup a week? And how much each one would need a day? Although at the moment I'm considering doing a half dry half raw feed to see how they get on with that.

Hi Shanao,
Look at this link, as it gives you advice on how to keep the costs down, and how much to feed.
http://www.dogsfirst.ie/Nutrition/Recipe_Idea_and_Cost.html

I go for about 3% of the dog's body weight per day. So, a 10kg dog would need about 300g per day, split as per recommendations given on the above link.
Again, dogsfirst advises that if you give your dog a nice big bone one day, you take a dollop out of his daily ration for that day. If your dog has a particularly tiring day, add a dollop!

Bullseye1

Are Chicken bones not dangerous?

DBB

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are Chicken bones not dangerous?

Not when fed raw, no. However, I'd never let one of mine eat a bone unless I was there to supervise. I think some dogs need to learn to eat bones well: I have one here who'll bolt a bone, but another is a super efficient and safe eater. I have a new dog who won't eat bones at all! Any suggestions for this dogsfirst?:D

Shanao

Well at the moment its costing me 4.33 to feed the two big dogs a day. I would have to feed the big guy nearly 2kgs of raw a day and the bitch 1500g a day (Might have that slightly wrong but I think that's right). I think from the calculations there (if I have followed them right, have never been the greatest mathematician) it would cost me 5.74 to feed the 60kg dog a day and 4.30 to feed the 45kg a day...

Ronnie Beck

I fed my dog (border collie) raw meat and bones in the morning and a half cup of quality dry food with cod liver oil from three months old for about six months. No problems there fit and healthy dog perfect teeth, coat etc.
I then moved to a different part of the country and just fed him dry food and the oil. I noticed his teeth had built up alot of plaque particularly on the canines. I started him back on the raw meat and bones in the morning. He sleeps by the front door and the following morning about six o' clock I have woken to an awful smell and a large pile on the floor. The diarrheoa lasts for the rest of the day. I have tried three times to reintroduce him to raw meat and bones each time with the same result. The meats seems fine as the my other dog (7 months old) had no bad effects
Any one had a similar experience or any advice.

Cheers,

I suppose this is a warning/question, it was pretty bad and i've a strong stomach (but luckily no carpet).

are you serious

Ok I have done some calculations based on my 2 rotties.

Buddy 14months he weighs in at roughly 48-50kg
(last time I weighed him he was 46kg, he's grown a bit since then)
Izzy is 4months she weighs in at 18kg

Both are on Royal Canin Maxi Junior costing me €69.99 for a 15kg bag.

Buddy's daily recommendation of food is 625g per day
Izzy's daily recommendation of food is 420g per day

I'm doing this per bag per dog.


So if I am right then this would mean;

Buddy should get 24 days out of 1 bag exactly = €2.91625 per day
Izzy should get just under 36 days out of 1 bag = €1.94416 per day
(hers will change as she is still growing)


Going off the dogsfirst method 3% of Buddy's weight is 1.47kg which in turn would mean he should get 1.47kg of food per day.
Going off the dogsfirst method 3% of Izzy's weight is 0.54kg which in turn would mean she should get 0.54kg of food per day.


So this would mean using the price as worked out by dogsfirst at €2.87 per kg (depending on where you source your produce of course)would then mean

Buddy 48-50kg eats 1.47kg of fresh produce = €4.21 per day
Izzy 18kg eats 0.54kg of fresh produce = €1.54 per day



Don't know why I didn't do this earlier, seems like I would be losing money by changing over. The smaller dog owner would be saving money but unfortunately myself and other large breed owners would be paying more. I do actually intend on changing to buying the food on-line from maxizoo/zooplus or one of the usual's as I know it is even cheaper again to buy on-line.


Seriously are my numbers right there? I stand to be corrected on any or all of my figures but I hope if they are indeed right this has helped anyone else out!

Ronnie Beck

Your maths is spot on. I see what you mean about a larger dogs costing more. My dogs fully grown at about 26kg. that adds up to 65euro/month for the raw food or a quality bag of dog food. He's at about the break even point. I'd try going down to your local butcher or a wholesaler and have a chat. There alot of quality meat that goes to waste as offcuts.

andreac

Garkane, would you consider a half raw half dry food diet? Theres a guy at the shows that has chicken mince (with bones and all) for €3 for 5lbs of it. Ive fed it before and its good.

He also does Carcasses and sometimes has wings too so thats something you could look into.

Whispered

DBB wrote: »

. I think some dogs need to learn to eat bones well

I know you're talking about chicken bones but I was amazed here when Phoe wasn't able to eat the marrow out of a bone. Poor little mite would try to gnaw down into it instead of licking it out. It's taken him nearly 6 months to perfect holding it between his paws.

TooManyDogs

garkane wrote: »

Seriously are my numbers right there? I stand to be corrected on any or all of my figures but I hope if they are indeed right this has helped anyone else out!

The maths is right but the ingredients in the Dog First webpage are expensive to me.
They're quoting mince beef from lidl for €3.61/kg, you can get pet grade mince slightly cheaper from foodforpets.ie €3.50/kg

Dog First quote chicken parts at €3.84/kg, I get mine for €1/kg from my local butcher, a different butcher used to give me them for 50c/kg but he wasn't able to store them in the fridge so had to collect every day so too much of a pain.

I simply can't afford to feed fish to my lot so I use sea kelp supplement tablets but whenever I come across a fisherman while camping I beg the heads and bits off them.

I grow veggies in the garden too, helps with the cost of veggies for the dogs dinner.

You can do it cheaper if you shop around.

BullBauld

I gave my 6mth old Airedale his first chicken leg yesterday evening.
I held it for him to nibble on until it clicked that he was able to eat it, didn't take long for him to polish it off after that. He loved it.

At times though I didn't know if it was pieces of chicken bones or his teeth hitting the floor

I like the idea of a raw food diet. For some reason though the thought of going completly raw seems a daunting one. I'm not fully sure why.

Going on figures above it would be cheaper at the moment as Rufus is 18kg, that might change when he gets bigger. If it ends up a bit dearer then not all bad as the quality of diet would make up for that.

I will suss out local butchers and see do they do off-cuts/carcasses and take it from there.

Thanks DogsFirst for info provided. Any more recepies please

are you serious

Thanks all for confirming I have not lost my average maths skills!!

I am going to take a trip to Keypak in the next day or so up in Clonee as I know they have a trade counter to see what deals they have, surely they will have great offer there per kg.

Andrea, I've just booked Buddy into the 4th and 27th December shows in Cloghran no doubt I will see you there and you can introduce me to this guy, cheers for that.

I know dogsfirst was using prices he was getting from lidl and other places I had a feeling some of the prices could have been made cheaper, as far as I am aware lidl veg is cheaper than most other stores, or so i'm told when talking about food prices in work.

tacofries

i worked in a place where we had to get dog food training. basically im too lazy to read of all what was posted and why your doing it, but the man doing it said dry nuts are better than the wet food as its better for teeth and the things which go into it. he advised to stay away from the cans . sorry if this is irrelevant but just thought i should let you know.