At wits end with dis-enfranchised teenager

LegacyUser

Ok, where do I start?

We have a teenage daughter. Historically, she's been quite demanding in comparison to her younger siblings. We've had some issues where she has got involved with other people's business and walked away from the fall-out leaving us to sort it out.

At school, she done very well up until 2nd year where she started to struggle. Speaking to the teachers when in 2nd year, they said this is a regular occurrence as students become familiar with their surroundings along with the fact that they are no longer the junior year.

Through 2nd year and now into 3rd year, behaviour has steadily deteriorated. She had one hobby that she was very interested in and was very time-consuming but she didn't return to this after the summer.

Over the last month or so, she has started mitching school and earlier in the week, she walked out rather than do the punishment given to her. She then failed to go into school the following day, took off with a friend and ended up in her friends house refusing to come home. After a long discussion with her and her friend's mother on the phone, we allowed her stay on condition that she came home the next day. The next day came and the same thing happened, didn't go into school, went to god knows where and ended up back in her friends house resulting in me leaving work and heading to same house to take her home (after long laborious negotiations).

We've also seen a change in friends recently to a group that we wouldn't be keen on and who seem to be let roam the streets as and when they want. She sees this and seems to think it's acceptable. It seems that the friend she's taken off with on a couple of occassions seems to be very close and they appear to be playing off each other.

When we sit down and try and talk, she will either try and instigate an argument or just appear completly uninterested. From what I can make out, she has lost complete interest in school, says she is struggling big-time with keeping up and can't get on with a number of teachers. It is hard however to know what is happening as she is a dab hand at manipulating situations.

The thing is that underneath it all, she can be a great child but this side is revealed less and less as of late. It seems that all she wants is to be running with the gang and sees me and her mother as a source of irritation.

I apologise for the long post but we really are at our wits end and don't know what to do. I've left loads out but it's obviously impossible to go into full detail.

What I am really wondering is if there are any other people out there going through or who have gone through something like this and what you recommend. We feel completely out of our depth but don't know who to turn to. One time she was out and refused to come home (again saying she was staing at a friends house), I called the guards and they said that if I knew where she was and where she'd be staying, there wasn't a lot they could do.

We are really teriffied as to where this will end up.

LadyMayBelle

I'm so sorry to hear this, it sounds like it has been such a strain and you and the family. Really, really difficult.

Has there been any changes in family life since she started second year? You mentioned how things have been different from that point. Get a meeting with someone in the school who will offer more insight to what is going on in there, and may be in very good position to offer support to her and advice to you. There may well be issues you don't know about and also the school may offe her some 1:1 support sessions if she wanted them.

I guess in my opinion, I'd really try empathising with your daughter; letting her know that you can see that home is not somewhere she wants to be right now, and that's sad. Seems like school is also somewhere she doesn't want to be, which means she is stuck mitching and up to stuff you don't know about. And that you would really like to hear hear opinion in all of this (you, meanwhile, are gonna have to bite your lip and try, try, try not to fight back, but listen, and tell her how it makes you feel. Go for somewhere neutral, outside of home. Ask her for her suggestions and advice on what would make things better for her, and then work on negotiations.

I see you say she instigates argumements or else appears disinterested; you can model the opposite of both of these when talking to her; be specific, interested, and bite the tongue! Teenage brains are still very much in development stage and while it's possible they filter out parents talk (joke!) they will respond to empathy; she is at a transitional stage in her life where she is leaving behind childhood and discovering her own sense of self in the world, and that can be scary!

You need to intervene now, and show her that you are there to listen and help her out, not to critcise (as much as you want to as her behaviour could lead her down a very rough path) and show her you really care about her. I think if you start there, then there will be scope for communication about what to do next, but you've got to get those communication ways going again. If she really doesn't respond, write to her, don't cricticise, but let her know you have seen a change and it makes you sad to see she doesn't feel like home is a source of comfort right now.

I really recommend the book 'How to talk so teens will listen and listen so teens will talk' by Faber and Mazlish; I go on and on about that book but seriously, you would have it read in a night and it will help you out.

Good luck OP, come back with more details or updates, I do really feel for you as this is tough.

silly

She seems to be at the age that she doesn't think she "needs" you or anyone.

If she has a phone, don't pay for credit.
If she is looking for money for lunch, don't give it to her.
She needs to realise what life would be like with no money. I.e no school, no job, no money.

LadyMayBelle

silly wrote: »

She seems to be at the age that she doesn't think she "needs" you or anyone.

If she has a phone, don't pay for credit.
If she is looking for money for lunch, don't give it to her.
She needs to realise what life would be like with no money. I.e no school, no job, no money.

Just be sure and tell her why you are doing this, and come up with a way to reward good behaviour. She'll source money other ways.
The teenage brain is a selfish one at times, and they don't learn/understand the way a developed adult brain does, so some concepts they genuinely won't grasp. Explain consequences and alternatives.

Sleepy

My kids are a lot younger OP but it sounds like there's far too much negotiating and attempting to persuade going on here imho.

Allowing her to stay in the friend's house the first night was a mistake: you're teaching her she can get her own way through being defiant rather than earning privileges.

Frankly: you need to sit on her. She needs to learn that she can't do as she likes or there'll be consequences she won't like.

LegacyUser

Thanks very much for the suggestions and for taking the time to read my somewhat rambling post.

silly and Sleepy, believe me when I say we've tried the tough approach. In the past, she has had laptop, phone etc. removed as punishment and it hasn't worked with her. She has also been grounded for a period of time (which she has done). We've also removed pocket-money etc. but again, this hasn't worked and to be honest, I have issues with this approach and think it can lead to more severe problems. The issue is with the 'consequences she won't like' part. What do you do when you run out of condequences?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't happening the whole time. Normally, she is a moody broody teenager (normal) but every so often, we get an outburst of behaviour. The latest episode came from the issue at school and ran on from there.

One mistake we have made is that as she became a teenager, we kept applying the methods that we would apply to the younger children and this patently didn't work. I think we failed to see the line where she crossed from being a child to being a young adult and this is something that we need to address.

Thinking about things and from what I did manage to get out of her, she feels a bit suffocated and feels she hasn't the same liberties as others of her age (and I know this is a familiar refrain to most parents of teenagers). She told me that she feels that she is under a lot of pressure to be the perfect one (first grandchild on both sides) and to do well in exams (we've tried to tell her she's not). She has fallen behind in school and I think she is stressed by the thought of not doing well in her Junior Cert. I'm also not fully sure that she is happy in school although she has plenty of friends from what we can see.

There is obviously a lot of pent-up frustration, stress and anger over everything but the problem we have is how we tackle that. We are going to try and sit her down and let her have her say without us coming across as lecturing (which would be a kind of default mode) and try and get out of her what she wants from life as opposed to what we want her to do. Of course, we can't be seen to be pandering either and we will have to try and get across the seriousness of walking out of school etc.

Spoke to someone recently who told us that they had this kind of behaviour until their child was 18, not sure we could cope with 3 more years of it!

yoda2001

Is there anyone in school who might get through to her? Guidance counsellor, chaplain, teacher? An independent adult who is not emotionally involved might help.

charlemont

The younger that teenagers start to go wild the better as she could soon realise that trouble won't get her anywhere in life and by that time it won't be too late, As she is 14 now, She may well snap out of this by the time she is 16 and start to knuckle down at her school work. If she is a clever as you say the novelty of being a teen rebel will soon wear off.

LegacyUser

Well, what a day that was.

Absolutely exhausted after the week that's been in it but in short, we took her out on her own for a bite to eat and for a chat and just basically let her talk.

Turns out she is extremely unhappy at school. Admits that she dossed 2nd year away having adopted the position of class clown. She now feels like she's caught in a personality that's not hers and feels like she can't be herself and is very unhappy (to the point of being depressed) with how her life is going. Looking back, I think a very recent event got her thinking and may have brought on the recent bout of extreme behaviour.

She also feels under pressure by relatives to be the 'perfect child' (first grandchild). In fairness, she had excluded herself from family gatherings etc and this could well be why.

The last thing was that she feels that we don't give her enough freedom. This is certainly true - in fact, her younger sister gets more freedom than she does (being the sensible one).

We discussed issues such as trust, the impact of people's actions on not just them but on other people, around them and things like that.

All in all, a lot of positives to be taken and an unbelievable transformation in her immediately to the extent that she was interacting with her cousins (called in there to pick up the other children) and siblings when we got home.

I'm not naieve enough to thing anything has been solved tonight but at least we have a clearer picture on where we are at and what we can do to help the situation.

The real lesson for us tonight was to listen and let her talk without being judgemental.

Fingers crossed we're moving in the right direction..

LadyMayBelle

atourwitsend wrote: »

Well, what a day that was.

Absolutely exhausted after the week that's been in it but in short, we took her out on her own for a bite to eat and for a chat and just basically let her talk.

Turns out she is extremely unhappy at school. Admits that she dossed 2nd year away having adopted the position of class clown. She now feels like she's caught in a personality that's not hers and feels like she can't be herself and is very unhappy (to the point of being depressed) with how her life is going. Looking back, I think a very recent event got her thinking and may have brought on the recent bout of extreme behaviour.

She also feels under pressure by relatives to be the 'perfect child' (first grandchild). In fairness, she had excluded herself from family gatherings etc and this could well be why.

The last thing was that she feels that we don't give her enough freedom. This is certainly true - in fact, her younger sister gets more freedom than she does (being the sensible one).

We discussed issues such as trust, the impact of people's actions on not just them but on other people, around them and things like that.

All in all, a lot of positives to be taken and an unbelievable transformation in her immediately to the extent that she was interacting with her cousins (called in there to pick up the other children) and siblings when we got home.

I'm not naieve enough to thing anything has been solved tonight but at least we have a clearer picture on where we are at and what we can do to help the situation.

The real lesson for us tonight was to listen and let her talk without being judgemental.

Fingers crossed we're moving in the right direction..

That us just the best news thus morning. Well done on ye I am sure it can't have been easy! Ye did well in getting in tune with her it sounds . Keep it up and maybe schedule a few more of these coffee/ bite to eat meet ups sO she will see ye are continuing to be interested in her life and all that goes with it. Good on you OP.

It had crossed my mind the other day whether a big brother big sister scheme would help her out , it's like a buddy system thing? Just gives her another outlet and another role model .. I guess the best thing is asking her what she thinks needs to change and what she needs in order to make those changes.

U wish ye a happy Sunday.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the kind words, it means a lot.

We had an eventful day yesterday. Told her we were starting with a clean slate after the chat we had on Friday night.

She had been looking to go to her friends for the day and we told her that was no problem once it was organised and we agreed where and when she'd be dropped off/picked up. The plan then changed to going to another friends and then another with the plans vague to say the least. I insisted that if she was going somewhere, I would need to know to whose house (we live in the country, she was looking to go into a couple of different villages) and once I knew that, I had no problem dropping her off and picking her up. After a lot of changing of plans and nothing definite in place, I told her it was too late and I'd already put half the day on hold. This resulted in a small tantrum, door slam and retreating to her room.

We handled this by telling her that we needed a quick chat, set a time for it (1 hour from then) and that the internet would go off at the specified time until we talked. She arrived in for a chat and tried to say that we wouldn't let her out etc. We calmly and rationally explained that we had no issue with her going out but that arrangements needed to be in place - we also explained that she had switched and swapped arrangements all day and by 5:30pm still had nothing definite in place (she was meant to be going somewhere for the afternoon). There were a couple of occasions where we took some 'time out' as she was getting worked up but we got there eventually. Once we'd finished talking, we switched the internet back on. After that, her mood was quite good and chatty.

There is no doubt in the past that she has used bullying tactics in these situations and either myself or my wife would take the bait but today again, we both remained very calm as possible and again, let her have her say. There is also no doubt that we haven't been supportive enough or given her an environment in which she could talk. Hopefully, keeping dialogue open will help all of us.

Trying to get her to sit down tonight and discuss school and see what the options are. I'm concerned that moving school is only encouraging her to run away from her problems but at the same time, I can't see how I can force a child who is so obviously unhappy to go back into school. This is a real tricky one!

Today, she is gone into town for a few hours with a friend of hers and the family who is a few years older then her. Hopefully, it'll give her some head-space and allow here tease out some of her issues.

It really is one day at a time at the moment!

qwertytlk

I dont mean to worry or frighten you by saying this but have you considered or do you know if she is using drugs//alcohol? I ask because although some of her behaviour is likely down to teenage hormones etc, this seems a good bit worse than that. Much of what you describe is typical personality/mood changes associated with drug use such as cannabis, and harder drugs such as ecstasy/amphetimens. I could be wrong and she just be going through a particularly bad patch but in my experience this type of behaviour is usually associated with drug/alcohol use and abuse.

Keith in cork

qwertytlk wrote: »

I dont mean to worry or frighten you by saying this but have you considered or do you know if she is using drugs//alcohol? I ask because although some of her behaviour is likely down to teenage hormones etc, this seems a good bit worse than that. Much of what you describe is typical personality/mood changes associated with drug use such as cannabis, and harder drugs such as ecstasy/amphetimens. I could be wrong and she just be going through a particularly bad patch but in my experience this type of behaviour is usually associated with drug/alcohol use and abuse.

I'd take this with a pinch of salt, a good handfull if you can spare it :pac:

I went through the same kind of phase, i'm 26 now so not a huge time difference. I started out fine, worked hard, 2nd yr came, gave up boxing (county champion) gave up gaa (always 3 or 4 medals per year) began to give teachers hell, mitched, roamed the streets until all hours, hung with what my mother called "the wrong crowd", got expelled a few weeks before my junior... had paid the fee so was legally entitled to sit my exams, did ZERO study..... Got 9 honours and 1 pass from my subjects. Truth be told... i was bored.

Being young the path i chose seemed like the good choice to me. Obviously i should have pointed it out, got extra work assigned and gone on to become a NASA engineer or the president of ireland. But thats not how it works when your an early teen.

Accept some of the behaviour as "teenage", put the foot down on some issues, bargain on the rest.

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT! try to ban the "wrong crowd". She'll see herself soon enough them being just what they are, if infact they are what you say they are. The more you push her away from them, the harder you make it for yourself and for her. If their wrong and she drops them, she'll get the wrath of a group of teens. If their wrong and you let her find it out for herself, she'll cut ties gradually and no more will be said. Or it could turn out that their like my friends of the time, who are now greater friends and even welcomed into the family home as our own. Whats to say that their not going through the same as your child?

I know the obvious fear is that she'll come to harm, end up jobless and with no prospects..... I've seen some rough nasty **** in my short time here..... and i'm thankful for it. I'm double wide to everthing and suspicious of more. You learn to be one step ahead at all times like an in-built defense mechanism able to see whats just around the corner and preparing yourself for it.

Now for the contradiction........ I've qualifications, was working in a top grade job, on top grade money.... and i'm now on the dole. Some things are just inevitable. Some of the most highly qualified people in the country are unemployed. And some to a lesser extent were too during the boom at one stage or another, Its all part of life. But some of my mates / aquaintences with no qualifications / prospects are in full time employment be it at the local factory / supermarket etc etc.... but they've more money than i do right now. Some things in life just can't be helped. They are beyond our control.

So where do you go? How do you deal with it? How do you ensure she'll be safe?

You cant. All you can do is make sure if or when she decides her phase is over, that your stood there with open arms to support her. If she goes downhill further to a dangerous level, then step in all guns blazing.

I know right now you feel like the world is at an end, but i dont mean to disrespect, but its not. Next year it'll be "my child in transition year is doing x,y,z" and they'll be totally different set of complaints and probably good problems as opposed to bad.

I was going to insert a witty one liner here to put a little smile in your thread of dread, but i won't, i'll just wish you the best with whatever decision you make and hope that my story was in someway helpful........... Now its time for bed, i need to get up at 1pm today to watch neighbours :pac:

reeta

qwertytlk wrote: »

I dont mean to worry or frighten you by saying this but have you considered or do you know if she is using drugs//alcohol? I ask because although some of her behaviour is likely down to teenage hormones etc, this seems a good bit worse than that. Much of what you describe is typical personality/mood changes associated with drug use such as cannabis, and harder drugs such as ecstasy/amphetimens. I could be wrong and she just be going through a particularly bad patch but in my experience this type of behaviour is usually associated with drug/alcohol use and abuse.

I really feel that this is not the case here (have a 17 year old daughter and now the extent of trouble they can cause, deliberate or not) thankfully have come out the other side, but a lot of what you said in your original post I could relate to. Dont give up and as previously said DO NOT bare her from her friends, however bad they may seem, it will make the situation a lot worse. Please listen to what she says, while also laying down strict rules. She will come out of this and one day will become your lovable girl again Best of luck....

LegacyUser

Just a quick update.

Firstly, thanks all for your words of advice, it's really appreciated.

It's great to hear from people who have been through similar experiences and have come out the other side.

We've had a couple of chats over the weekend and it's become very clear that she is simply not happy at all in her current school to the extent that she really can't face going back. We've been in and seen the school and are looking into the various options available to her.

There is however a fair bit of burying the head in the sand about all this. We've been real careful when chatting to allow her talk and get her point across. For every couple of minutes where she'll open up to some extent, we have a lot of time still getting the 'don't really care' and 'are we finished now' attitude (by times bordering on bullying to get the chat over with). This can be very frustrating as every time you feel like you are getting somewhere, you are met with a wall again.

Just been on the phone to my wife and today she's not co-operating (we agreed while this issue was being resolved, she'd do some study/schoolwork each day and would have a small list of jobs to get through). Yesterday, she done all that was asked and was like a different child for much of the day. It then transpired that the school she was hoping to move to had no room and her mood changed again.

I get the feeling that she just wants us to make everything better but we obviously can't do that without her communicating with us and being involved in the process..

Anyways, I'm going to try and talk to her this evening and explain that whilst we'll do all in our power to sort out the situation and that we certainly don't want to see her unhappy, she needs to communicate with us and understand that she must continue on with her schoolwork.

Sorry for the elongated post again, just sounding out really. One hard aspect of this is that we are spending less and less time on the rest of the family at the moment.

qwertytlk

Is she being bullied or something in school? Its an awful situation if she is and could certainly account for her behaviour. If thats not the case, what is the problem with the school?
Or does she just want to move to this new school (which youv discovered has no places) because thats where her new friends go?

LegacyUser

qwertytlk wrote: »

Is she being bullied or something in school? Its an awful situation if she is and could certainly account for her behaviour. If thats not the case, what is the problem with the school?
Or does she just want to move to this new school (which youv discovered has no places) because thats where her new friends go?

Not sure about the bullying to be honest. The background is that we come from the country and she would have been quite innocent going to secondary. She's told us that in 2nd year, she became the 'class clown' (her own words) and basically became one of the gang. This continued on into 3rd year. Something happened in the extended family recently and it seems that may have been something of a wake-up call. Immediately after that, she had a row with a teacher, walked out of the school and basically gave us the week from hell.

When we finally got to sit down and talk, she broke down and told us that she hated who she'd become, felt that in school she had to pretend she was someone she wasn't and that she wanted to change but felt stuck.

The school she would like to go to is a country school with far smaller numbers (the school she is at has large numbers and is in a large town). She knows a couple of people in there but they are people she would have known previously and hasn't seen in some time.

Basically, I think she knows she's messed up, she knows that she got in with the wrong people and she could see her grades going down (and lost interest for quite some time). We noticed a pattern of behaviour where she would be relaxed during holidays and become moody when it came time to go back to school. I suppose in hindsight, we should have noticed something was up but it can be difficult when you are in the midst of it all.

Her mood and general demeanour has changed immensely since we told her we wouldn't force her back into school and began looking for alternatives. We've seen a few glimpses of the person we knew a few years back which is very encouraging. I think her world is upside down at the moment so all we can do is be there and be as supportive as we can.

babel12

Have a similar problem myself. Not as extreme, but a problem none the less.

How did this turn out?

gbee

You could have described my daughter at that age. Somewhere along the line it's your fault, it's something you did or did not do and you'll never find out.

To some extent girls this sage do this, but it's a passing phase, I think your situation is permanent.

First off get her our of school and get her working, she'll need to live with someone and certainly with more independence, she is too
young yet to live on her own but that's the goal you need to immediately embark on.

Get her to look at flats and talk to landlords and understand the price of rent, plus, plus, plus etc. Don't do this for her, she has to find out for herself. Despite a lot of food growing of trees, it costs money in the shop. Get the plan rolling even though it will be a few years, ye may have to agree to a truce.

There are schemes to assist, one or two day schooling while doing an apprenticeship

mariaalice

I have posted this before but, my youngest daughter was similar to what you describe and it all came good in the end... now she is nearly 20 and is as happy and normal as can be she has a job, boyfriend, friends and has gone back to her old hobbies... she has no clue why she was like she was in her early/mid teens and in fact dose not like talking about it now.

So even if its hard now keep in mind most teenagers turn out OK.

Orion

Considering the OP was anon and the thread is nearly a year old it's highly likely that this request for an update will be unseen. Feel free to start a new thread about your own circumstances but this thread has earned its rest.