"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

This is not actually true. It was always about creating a platform. A unified fare system has been out of scope for at least 5 years.

Why,given the very definite powers which were allocated to the Integrated Ticketing Implementation Group,did they not start at the beginning ....

The group you refer to was made of chief executives of the bus and rail operating companies. Those executives' jobs are to protect the revenue and bargaining power of their companies.

Asking these men to come up with an integrated ticket system is a bit like the mayor of Chicago putting Bugs Morgan and Al Capone on a committee to stamp out organized crime.

The surprising thing about LEAP is that it works at all given the number of parties involved (loads of transport companies, loads of equipment suppliers, loads of technology companies).

It very much has to be seen as a starting point for further investment towards Leapcard 2.0 rather than as an end-point.

It's immaterial who constituted the ITIG,as the body itself was established on foot of a Government decision to pursue this goal.

My point remains that IF the relevant Senior Influential and Powerful people had,at the start,did a little more thorough job on establishing the ITS groundrules,then Leapcard 2 would not a requirement less than six months after Leapcard 1 debuted.

JoePie

Lads.

I need some help. I got my Leap card when they first showed up, but through a combination of driving, taxis and walking, I'll only be using it for the first time tomorrow.

I tried to log into my account just there, but I've forgotten my password. To change my password, I need a PIN number. Can anyone tell me if this PIN came on a letter with the card, because I have no email about it. I'm waiting on a reply from the Leap crowd, but I'm impatient.

OR.

If someone wants to email me the password format, it might jog my memory.

And by email I mean PM.

Dravokivich

hmmmm... you create your own pin when setting up an account on the website.

JoePie

Damn. Thought as much.
..........................

Hang on. Got it. You're a genius. You made this all possible, Dravokivich. Cheers buddy.

Carawaystick

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

This is not actually true. It was always about creating a platform. A unified fare system has been out of scope for at least 5 years.




The surprising thing about LEAP is that it works at all given the number of parties involved (loads of transport companies, loads of equipment suppliers, loads of technology companies).

So fifty odd million for a system to allow you pay a fare- wasn't there these metal and paper things that allowed this already.

daymobrew

Many people have free landline calls so get charged for 1850 and other non-geo numbers.

Before calling LeapCard customer care I looked for the non-1850 number at SayNoTo1890.com but no luck.

I emailed customer care and was told:

LeapCard Customer Care wrote:

The leap card customer care desk can only be contacted by ringing 1850 824 824 or by emailing customer.care@leapcard.ie. Phone calls are 0.30c irrespective of call duration.

Being pedantic I replied that calls are 30c (not 0.30c - a factor of 100 off) and that landline numbers cost 0c (infinitely cheaper, mathematically speaking).

Anyone know the landline number? Or who I could ask? Is LeapCard under the the Department of Transport? (Leo V is my local TD).

Dravokivich

Change your provider to BT Ireland, they seem to be the cheapest according to that SayNoTo1890.com website.

:rolleyes:

n97 mini

daymobrew wrote: »

Many people have free landline calls so get charged for 1850 and other non-geo numbers.

Before calling LeapCard customer care I looked for the non-1850 number at SayNoTo1890.com but no luck.

I emailed customer care and was told: Being pedantic I replied that calls are 30c (not 0.30c - a factor of 100 off) and that landline numbers cost 0c (infinitely cheaper, mathematically speaking).

Anyone know the landline number? Or who I could ask? Is LeapCard under the the Department of Transport? (Leo V is my local TD).

I asked them for the regular number when I was on to them the time Dublin Bus overcharged me. They didn't know it and in fairness to the lad I was talking to he had everything else right, the only thing he got wrong was "there isn't one".

Every phone line is connected to an exchange and it has a number at that exchange, and it really should be public policy that both the LoCall and local numbers be published on everything. If Quinn Direct can do it, so can everyone else...

antoinolachtnai

Carawaystick wrote: »

So fifty odd million for a system to allow you pay a fare- wasn't there these metal and paper things that allowed this already.

Well, thankfully it isn't my job to defend the integrated ticketing project.

But this is basically what the system was to deliver. There are some other products that are part of the scope, which will have their own difficulties. In general though, that is the scope and it has been for years. If you didn't agree with the scope, three or four years ago was really the time to complain about it.

Is 50m a good price for what has been delivered? To be honest, considering the nonsense and carry on from the state transport operating companies in relation to this, and the total unwillingness to grasp the possibilities for savings, it is actually a fairly good price.

In the grand context of public transport in Ireland, it is pretty good value and basically in line with the original project forecast.

The length of time it has taken has been abysmal though. I really think the blame for this lies squarely with the state transport operating companies.

If you want to complain about wasted money on public transport, there is far more material waste going on every single year.

Carawaystick

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, thankfully it isn't my job to defend the integrated ticketing project.

amen. ya'd be driven demented just by us if so

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

But this is basically what the system was to deliver. There are some other products that are part of the scope, which will have their own difficulties. In general though, that is the scope and it has been for years. If you didn't agree with the scope, three or four years ago was really the time to complain about it.

Can you provide a link to any document showing the scope of the integrated ticketing system. or point exactly when the scope of the project changed. I wonder how much was spent on the old scope of the project.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Is 50m a good price for what has been delivered? To be honest, considering the nonsense and carry on from the state transport operating companies in relation to this, and the total unwillingness to grasp the possibilities for savings, it is actually a fairly good price.

Considering the tram, train, a private bus company and one owned by Leo Varadkar all had contactless smartcard systems running some years ago, the existing system is not worth the price. the marginal advantage of only having one card ( for certain journeys) is not worth it.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

In the grand context of public transport in Ireland, it is pretty good value and basically in line with the original project forecast.

It's hardly good value when the leap card is much more expensive than the existing solution offered by Dublin Bus on a journey basis. I can get from Balbriggan to Ballyknockan for 190c tomorrow with a DB ticket. The leap fare is much more than this.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The length of time it has taken has been abysmal though. I really think the blame for this lies squarely with the state transport operating companies.

The Govt managed to get AIB to rethink their mortgage interest rates in less than a week, earlier this year. The Govt owns most but not all of AIB. LeoV owns all of BÁC/IÉ/BÉ -- it's a govt failure.

goingnowhere

Carawaystick wrote: »

Considering the tram, train, a private bus company and one owned by Leo Varadkar all had contactless smartcard systems running some years ago, the existing system is not worth the price. the marginal advantage of only having one card ( for certain journeys) is not worth it.

The interim systems were paid for in the most part from the ITS budget

Lapin

Is it possible to buy a Leap Card in Heuston ?

I assumed the answer was an obvious Yes but I'm not sure.

It doesn't say so on the website.

LeftBlank

Yes you can. The ticket machines in Heuston sell Leap and Easons sell it too.

Anita Blow

Have they said when they'll allow student/monthly tickets to be loaded onto the card? Or when other operators will begin using it?

Would anyone say they'd be up and running before college starts back?

Stevek101

It is due to be up and running by next month. That was the plan a few months ago. The tender for the cards was put out a good while ago now.

foggy_lad

Anita Blow wrote: »

Have they said when they'll allow student/monthly tickets to be loaded onto the card? Or when other operators will begin using it?

Would anyone say they'd be up and running before college starts back?

Coming soon could be Christmas this year or even next! Don't hold your breath for it though.

Anita Blow

Ah crapbag. Hopefully it's up and running before college starts then.
I know the excuse is generally that it's an e-wallet or something like that but really there's no excuse for taking this long to implement weekly/monthly tickets onto the card.

AlekSmart

Anita Blow wrote: »

Ah crapbag. Hopefully it's up and running before college starts then.
I know the excuse is generally that it's an e-wallet or something like that but really there's no excuse for taking this long to implement weekly/monthly tickets onto the card.

Well Anita Blow,the excuse generally given,here and elsewhere,is that the Irish need to have stuff "Soft-Launched",as the experience of having to cope with "Big-Stuff" will give them a collective migrane...(Just wait till the Property Charge kicks in ).

You are quite correct however,there is NO excuse for the awful mess we now see Leapcard in.....the voluntary holders are now maxed,and every new user now has to be won-over.

As it stands there is nothing in Leapcards armoury to convince a new user to take it up...nothing.

In fact,word of mouth,and oul Pub Talk is,I would suggest leading to some people NOT using their Leapcard and reverting to cash.

10 years,€50 Million and Leapcard still floats like the wreck of the Hesperous with nobody at the helm.......perhaps that ex-HSE man can be recruited to advise on where we go from here ? :mad:

bk

The ticket machines at Sandycove dart station now sell and top-up leap cards. So it seems to be spreading across the network very quickly

This is very good news. Makes it much easier to use on the DART.

However I have confirmed one disappointing aspect, you can't tag-off using the machine.

This is a pity as sometimes I've found all the tag-off machines to be not working at this station and the ability to force a tag-off via the TVM would be handy.

bk

According to the FAQ on the leap website:

A number of Irish Rail Ticket Machines have recently been upgraded to enable customers to Top Up and buy Leap Cards. Ticket Machines at Connolly, Docklands, Grand Canal Dock, Pearse, Tara, Heuston, Malahide, Bray, Greystones, Howth, Sutton, Bayside, Howth Jct, Raheny, Kilbarrack, Killester, Clongriffen, Portmarnock, Clontarf, Drumcondra, Phoenix Park, Balbriggan, Lansdowne, Booterstown , Maynooth, Leixlip Louisa Bridge, Leixlip Confey, Castleknock, Ashtown, Dunboyne, M3 Parkway, Coolmine, Clonsilla and Harmonstown station have already been upgraded and more are being added daily.

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=ZBrekG8wfXkh9SLJSHbw6noFkIk75Qi6k1aPi1ZmXTxiFP%2bej4gDdsmbwEOfPVIS0MzQ6%2fQXfPRmeU3KwPYSW3%2bM5UuWJZxBevQqi1i2QiCsyafHYZrxD0OqhZq1bp2GiJv04hX1rWPvtZXO%2bjZSFbGpimyWzzBv9eDJLS%2brdTU%3d#topuprailtvm

So it seems to be rolling out quickly

However under the following FAQ it says:

What is a 'load location'?

A load location is the network you nominate to collect your online Top Up. You can choose to collect your online Top Up at:

Any Leap Card Agent
Luas Validators
DART/Commuter Rail Validators and Gates in the Short Hop Zone

- If you are collecting your Top Up on Luas or DART and Commuter Rail you can do so at the Gates or Validators only. You should only collect a Top Up here if you’re travelling anyway as the Gates or Validators will automatically Touch you on.

So is it not possible to load an on-line top-up at the Irish Rail TVM's?

I thought it was also possible to load a top-up at the Luas TVMs? So perhaps this FAQ just hasn't been updated.

Anyone know for certain? Victor?

Also the above list of stations that know have updated TVM's is out of date as I know Sandycove has them and isn't on the list.

Also any news on the automated top-up feature?

markpb

bk wrote: »

So is it not possible to load an on-line top-up at the Irish Rail TVM's?
I thought it was also possible to load a top-up at the Luas TVMs?

Nope, it wasn't possible with Luas TVMs, only ticket validators.

Carawaystick

bk wrote: »

According to the FAQ on the leap website:



https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=ZBrekG8wfXkh9SLJSHbw6noFkIk75Qi6k1aPi1ZmXTxiFP%2bej4gDdsmbwEOfPVIS0MzQ6%2fQXfPRmeU3KwPYSW3%2bM5UuWJZxBevQqi1i2QiCsyafHYZrxD0OqhZq1bp2GiJv04hX1rWPvtZXO%2bjZSFbGpimyWzzBv9eDJLS%2brdTU%3d#topuprailtvm

So it seems to be rolling out quickly

Where is phoenix park station?

bk

markpb wrote: »

Nope, it wasn't possible with Luas TVMs, only ticket validators.

Well that is pretty dumb.

A Dublin Bus user who happened to be passing a Luas (or IR) TVM lets say on Abbey Street could easily use it to pick up an online top-up.

It makes a joke of the online top-up, would be easier for such a user to just pay for the top-up on the TVM itself.

You should also be able to use the Luas and IR TVM's to pick up refunds.

I also don't understand why they have divided up the locations you can pick up the online top-ups into four different networks, either Irish Rail, Luas Red Line, Luas Green Line or Payzone shops.

Given that all of these are actively online, couldn't do have just made it all one big network and thus remove this unnecessary complication.

This will just get more confusing for users when the products offered on leap expand. Will you still have this division when you want to apply the automated top-ups and what about adding monthly/yearly tickets that you bought online?

Seems like a pointless separation.

Finally if you get a refund from DB, you should also be able to pick it up at any location and not be forced to go into DB HQ.

ethernet

Completely locking access to checking your account online after getting the password wrong a handful of times is a bit OTT. Not to mention having to phone to get it unlocked. I know it'll make more sense once credit card/bank account details are associated with a card to enable to automatic top-up facility when it's available.

goingnowhere

markpb wrote: »

Nope, it wasn't possible with Luas TVMs, only ticket validators.

Irish Rail support collection of online Leap top up at TVM, they have supported this feature on the Irish Rail smartcard since launch

Luas does not, but will in future

AngryLips

bk wrote: »

Well that is pretty dumb.

A Dublin Bus user who happened to be passing a Luas (or IR) TVM lets say on Abbey Street could easily use it to pick up an online top-up.

How is it meant to differentiate between applying credit to your card as oppose to an intention to use the Luas service? I'm talking in the case where someone intends to top up without using the service such as the Dublin Bus passenger in your example.

Dravokivich

AngryLips wrote: »

How is it meant to differentiate between applying credit to your card as oppose to an intention to use the Luas service? I'm talking in the case where someone intends to top up without using the service such as the Dublin Bus passenger in your example.

It doesn't. When you go to touch on/off to make a journey it'll check for "What else am I meant to do?" such as receive updates like top-ups.

If a DB user is just going to the stop to topup without using a journey, I'm guessing the idea is to use one of the TVMs. As these are avail to topup the leap card yourself.

Handier to do that I recon as at times there's been delays with topups being distributed.

bk

goingnowhere wrote: »

Irish Rail support collection of online Leap top up at TVM, they have supported this feature on the Irish Rail smartcard since launch

Luas does not, but will in future

Great, then the FAQ should be updated to reflect this. Hopefully someone from Leap is reading this thread and will do so.

LUAS really should have done it from day one, but anyway.

AngryLips wrote: »

How is it meant to differentiate between applying credit to your card as oppose to an intention to use the Luas service? I'm talking in the case where someone intends to top up without using the service such as the Dublin Bus passenger in your example.

The DB passenger wouldn't use the Luas validator. I'm suggesting that if the DB passenger placed the Leap card in the LUAS Ticket Vending Machine, that the online top-up be automatically applied and that you could see this application in the history.

BTW another point, it should be able to tag-on and then tag-off again and get a full refund if you change your mind, like you can on the DART validators. In other words:

- tag-on
- Wait 60 seconds (it is 2 minutes for DART, but I think 1 minute or even 30 seconds is better).
- tag-off within lets say 15 minutes and get a full refund.

Handy for situations where someone tags-on but then changes their mind.

AngryLips

bk wrote: »

BTW another point, it should be able to tag-on and then tag-off again and get a full refund if you change your mind, like you can on the DART validators. In other words:

- tag-on
- Wait 60 seconds (it is 2 minutes for DART, but I think 1 minute or even 30 seconds is better).
- tag-off within lets say 15 minutes and get a full refund.

Handy for situations where someone tags-on but then changes their mind.

+1 on this. It is very frustrating especially where there is a service disruption. I once tagged on at Abbey Street only to notice afterwards that the real-time displays were showing that trams were only running as far into town as Smithfield. I couldn't understand why the validators were not disabled in this situation and when I phoned Luas for a refund I got some attitude along the lines of "you should've checked the service notices first" before they reluctantly refunded my ticket "as a once-off gesture of goodwill" ...for charging me for a service they were unable to provide at that time.

Dravokivich

bk wrote: »

BTW another point, it should be able to tag-on and then tag-off again and get a full refund if you change your mind, like you can on the DART validators. In other words:

- tag-on
- Wait 60 seconds (it is 2 minutes for DART, but I think 1 minute or even 30 seconds is better).
- tag-off within lets say 15 minutes and get a full refund.

Handy for situations where someone tags-on but then changes their mind.

I think that's more so down to the Leap Card won't do anything for a period of time after it's touched a device. But IR implemented the ability to annul a fare if going back out of the station within a short period of time.

Would be handy if Luas had this as well alright.