"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

MOH

Dravokivich wrote: »

They don't receive transactions until the following day, so the soonest it'll be charged for is 2 days after the auto topup occurred. They don't want to end up having multiple outstanding auto topups going for a user without being paid for. Which would be possible with such a low topup amount as 10euro. Which is mentioned in their T&Cs, granted it needs to be amended. The feature is no longer "coming soon."

May I'm missing something here, but surely if they're worried about topups not being paid, then a 30 euro topup is going to leave them more exposed than, say, two 10 euro topups?

Would switching the minimum time between topups to 3 days instead of a week, while lowering the amount to €10, give them time to collect the money while allowing users to top up a more reasonable amount, with less risk of running out of credit.

L1011

Dravokivich wrote: »

How, if for some reason the user was unable to pay for the direct debit?

For not using a modern payment method, for starters. They system is needlessly limited as a result of their poor design decisions

Your are ignoring that they run the sane risk from fewer but higher amounts anyway so it really is a terrible excuse.

Dravokivich

MOH wrote: »

May I'm missing something here, but surely if they're worried about topups not being paid, then a 30 euro topup is going to leave them more exposed than, say, two 10 euro topups?

Would switching the minimum time between topups to 3 days instead of a week, while lowering the amount to €10, give them time to collect the money while allowing users to top up a more reasonable amount, with less risk of running out of credit.

The amount of credit from any one time auto topup occurs isn't the issue. The issue with the lower amount, would be due to the frequency of dropping within the 10euro threshold. They want to limit how often it gets used.

In reference to better to lose 10euro, than 30euro. The T&Cs reference a process whereby the NTA get onto the user for payment by other means for issues with auto topups that haven't been paid for. But they don't want to wait till the second / third / fourth auto topup to be received by a user without being paid.

MYOB wrote: »

For not using a modern payment method, for starters. They system is needlessly limited as a result of their poor design decisions

Your are ignoring that they run the sane risk from fewer but higher amounts anyway so it really is a terrible excuse.

Sure direct debit isn't very modern, but its a popular payment method.

I'm not ignoring their risk either. I'm merely stating they are doing it to limit said risks!

Victor

bk wrote: »

Is it really such a big issue if the threshold is crossed every two days?

Leap Card is set up such that you can only auto top-up once per week.

Separately there is the issue of bank fees, while the NTA seems to have a good deal and students will have free transactions, others will be paying 20-40c per transaction.

SandyfordGuy

MYOB wrote: »

For not using a modern payment method, for starters. They system is needlessly limited as a result of their poor design decisions

What do you suggest that they do instead?

Bear in mind the limitations of the on bus equipment here.

L1011

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

What do you suggest that they do instead?

Bear in mind the limitations of the on bus equipment here.

How does allowing multiple topups a week or allowing card payments affect the bus terminals?

Victor

MYOB wrote: »

How does allowing multiple topups a week or allowing card payments affect the bus terminals?

They would need to store three times as many auto top-up transactions. Storage space is already critical.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

They would need to store three times as many auto top-up transactions. Storage space is already critical.

They're read daily. Not weekly. So why a week interval? A minimum amount of more than the day cap is unjustified too, same reason.

If.the.minor increase on overall records per day is what kills them, I can see the system failing completely come September.

Victor

MYOB wrote: »

They're read daily. Not weekly. So why a week interval? A minimum amount of more than the day cap is unjustified too, same reason.

The day-week is a balance they struck.

If.the.minor increase on overall records per day is what kills them, I can see the system failing completely come September.

The system is already critical. Hence, when a cash transaction is made and then a Leap Card one, the driver's terminal needs to reload the Leap Card software for the second transaction.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

The day-week is a balance they struck.

The system is already critical. Hence, when a cash transaction is made and then a Leap Card one, the driver's terminal needs to reload the Leap Card software for the second transaction.

Sounds like a bodge rather than a balance.

bk

I think everyone is missing the important point.

€30 is simply too much money for the majority of people, so most people won't use it and they will quickly get feed up of constantly topping up in store themselves and quickly revert to cash. Thus negating the whole reason for Leap.

I'm sorry but all these other excuses or just that, excuses and VERY bad ones.

What it sounds to me as a manger of IT projects is that the whole Leap project is terribly designed. Frankly the project should never been allowed to go ahead without the Dublin Bus ticket machines being first updated.

The Dublin Bus ticket machines are the critical element of the whole project. DB is the number one method of public transport in Dublin, yet it is very clear that the DB ticket machines simply aren't powerful enough to handle the functionality of Leap.

I see absolutely no reason for the once a week €30 top-ups. It should be possible to have €10 top-ups which are processed over night, two days at worst.

Saying people might get increased bank charges is no excuse, you just tell people of this and let people decide how much they want to set themselves. Many people have free charges, people that don't can decide for themselves what to do. At least leave people the options for themselves.

The only valid excuse is that the DB ticket machines aren't capable of handling increased, more frequent auto-topups. But again this comes back to the DB ticket machines not being up to the job and need to be replaced ASAP.

We need a fast ticket machine that can process LEAP very quickly and with a online connection so that they can almost immediately process online top-ups and small amount auto-topups.

In the end the current situation is simply a terrible customer experience and it needs to be fixed if we want Leap to be successful, no excuses.

Mr Simpson

Personally, I think it would be better to dump direct debit and set up auto top up from debit or credit cards only.

Aard

I'd love to know where the arbitrary figure of 30 euro was plucked from. Much too high.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

I'd love to know where the arbitrary figure of 30 euro was plucked from. Much too high.

At the outset of Leapcard it was €40 !!!!!!!! :mad:

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

What it sounds to me as a manger of IT projects is that the whole Leap project is terribly designed. Frankly the project should never been allowed to go ahead without the Dublin Bus ticket machines being first updated.

The Dublin Bus ticket machines are the critical element of the whole project. DB is the number one method of public transport in Dublin, yet it is very clear that the DB ticket machines simply aren't powerful enough to handle the functionality of Leap.

The only valid excuse is that the DB ticket machines aren't capable of handling increased, more frequent auto-topups. But again this comes back to the DB ticket machines not being up to the job and need to be replaced ASAP.

We need a fast ticket machine that can process LEAP very quickly and with a online connection so that they can almost immediately process online top-ups and small amount auto-topups.

In the end the current situation is simply a terrible customer experience and it needs to be fixed if we want Leap to be successful, no excuses.

BK has it in one...12 years and €40 Million ago,the decisions were fluffed...kicked for touch...left for somebody else to sort out....Well,WE are that "Somebody Else" as the originators of this nonsense are by and large now on the Pínsin.

Oddly enough,the Auto Top-Up issue is no biggie for the BAC Machines,as once enabled,the relevant DD instruction cannot be altered and as it is stored on the Leapcard as a simple "prompt" the Wayfarer has nothing really to do except to respond to the pre-arranged trigger.

The main and continuing issue with Wayfafer/Leapcrad is the ongoing requirement to store and transfer constantly between Cash/ITS modes...they are both essentially different and present the Wayfarer with endless opportunities to Bug-Out.

We need to choose NOW where we are going with this,either retain Cash or go ITS...we cannot do both :mad:

steveblack

I'm a dublin bus driver, there is a man in the depot who's job is to look after the ticket machines. One morning 6am i'm getting my bus ready, he gets on and is replacing a malfunctioning ticket machine (problem reported the night before). In friendly conversation i say these ticket machines are terrible, He looks up at me with a disgusted face and says they are "pieces of Sxxt, they have my heart broken." He then tells me they are generations out of date and have been replaced practically everywhere they were in use. He then tells me a tale of woe about the machines that would have went on for the rest of the morning only i had to leave and go to work.
Bottom line the ticket machines need to be replaced, they are not up to the job.
Another thing, they are loosing money, the ticket is presented on the drivers validator. Driver presses button, green light and beep. Passenger walks away, half way upstairs ,it comes up on ticket machine transaction incomplete. No fare has been deducted from card.
The NTA have a lot to answers for, Millions spent on equipment that ultimately does not work.

Victor

Aard wrote: »

I'd love to know where the arbitrary figure of 30 euro was plucked from. Much too high.

I suspect because it is a bit more than the weekly cap for most people (Not adult Irish Rail users or adult multi-mode users).

LeinsterDub

steveblack wrote: »

The NTA have a lot to answers for, Millions spent on equipment that ultimately does not work.

Wasn't the equipment purchased by DB before the NTA existed?

AlekSmart

It is looking like the NTA have finally realized that they have a problem with the Leapcard numbers.....the adult take-up has largely stalled,and with the numbers of empty Leapcards now steadily increasing,some other means is required...and here it is...directed straight at the "Scholar" 16 to 18 year old market and offering a VERY attractive option to save money.

It will indeed be interesting to see just how many of our young,educated 2nd-3rd Level youths will continue to pay ADULT fares at 16,when they could be paying CHILD Leapfares at 17....this process will be a more accurate indicator of our educational standards than any Leaving Certificate !

http://childleapcard.ie/

This approach is fantastic,however belated it may be....This really should have been Number ONE on the list of Leapcard's original introduction......:p

And now....what to do about the Adults.....

LeinsterDub

Awe the joy of the fair structure , 3 different child fair rates

AlekSmart

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Awe the joy of the fair structure , 3 different child fair rates

Nope..there should be only one fare...the Cheapest !

This latest development gives a 16 year old the choice of paying €3.05 and being an Adult...OR...getting a Scholar Leapcard and paying €1.15.

Lets see how many will make that choice ?

SteM

Is it possible for them to introduce a T90 style fare using the Leap cards or is this not technically possible does anyone know?

AlekSmart

SteM wrote: »

Is it possible for them to introduce a T90 style fare using the Leap cards or is this not technically possible does anyone know?

It's "Imminent" on Leapcard,and will be known as a "Transfer Rebate" or somesuch...essentially if you transfer to another bus within a certain timeframe (90 Min ?) you'll either not be charged OR recieve a rebate dpending on your journey....

Coming Soon......;)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Tow

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If lucky... Maybe Wayfarer they will finish off their stock of 386s by then and Dublin Bus will upgrade to new machines with a bit more horsepower.

LeinsterDub

Tow wrote: »

If lucky... Maybe Wayfarer they will finish off their stock of 386s by then and Dublin Bus will upgrade to new machines with a bit more horsepower.

Can't wait.

AlekSmart

Tow wrote: »

If lucky... Maybe Wayfarer they will finish off their stock of 386s by then and Dublin Bus will upgrade to new machines with a bit more horsepower.

Well Tow...you might just be onto something there....

http://jonwilliams.org/wordpress/2013/07/30/parkeon-wayfarer-tgx150-ticket-machine-wireless-lan-issues/

This bit particularly interests me.......

After some frustration I eventually discovered that some (all?) TGX150 ticket machines are equipped with US and not EU wireless chipsets which means they only work with channels 1-11 and not 1-13 as one would expect in the UK.

....surely not the case here....

KD345

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is looking like the NTA have finally realized that they have a problem with the Leapcard numbers.....the adult take-up has largely stalled,and with the numbers of empty Leapcards now steadily increasing

Do you have a link to these figures?

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

Do you have a link to these figures?

This as about as linky as I can find...but do bear in mind it's a Public Relations inspired Press Release...http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/cheaper-leap-fares-for-16-17-and-18-year-olds-from-august-1st/

Editor Note – Leap Facts

Leap Card launched in December 2011
Over 600,000 cards sold to date
Since launch, customers have used over €100 million travel credit on Leap cards in the Greater Dublin Area taking over 50 million journeys
Since launch of “Tickets” on Leap late last year – ie the Taxsaver Annual and Monthly Tickets and the Dublin Bus Rambler range – there has been €36 million of ticket sales and 7 million journeys with approx. 20% growth each month this year
Over 2,000 Leap Visitor cards (for tourists) sold in 3 weeks (launched June 2014)
The scheme website, www.LeapCard.ie, has had over 1 million hits in the last 12 months
89% of our customers responded positively when asked if they were satisfied with their Leap card

Still proving somewhat difficult to get figures for the number of Leapcards "sold" which are not Topped up when the initial credit expires.

But 8.9 out of 10 Cats say they prefer Leapcard,so it's grand Ted,just Grand....;)