"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

KD345

AlekSmart wrote: »

This as about as linky as I can find...but do bear in mind it's a Public Relations inspired Press Release...http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/cheaper-leap-fares-for-16-17-and-18-year-olds-from-august-1st/



Still proving somewhat difficult to get figures for the number of Leapcards "sold" which are not Topped up when the initial credit expires.

But 8.9 out of 10 Cats say they prefer Leapcard,so it's grand Ted,just Grand....;)

Thanks for that. Is 600,000 leap cards a bad figure? Surely that's ok considering it's only 3 years old.

How can you tell the uptake has slowed and there is an increase in cards not being topped up?

For many people, the leap card is something they use occasionally, such as popping into town on a Saturday etc. and may be topped up every few months. For others, it's part of their everyday use for commuting. I'm one of those people, but I have never topped up my card. I don't need to, as it's loaded with an annual ticket. I guess Leap has changed dramatically since it's launch, and will continue to evolve further. Where once it was centred around topping up, it's now just a travel card for thousands of people.

I think the introduction of the teenage Leap card is a positive move. Firstly, it gets young commuters used to using the card. It shows the benefits of avoiding cash, and that will hopefully continue when they move onto college or migrate to an adult leap card. Secondly, it addresses the vague fare structure which was in place for teenagers. I believe there is lots more to be done in this area, but this is a start.

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

Thanks for that. Is 600,000 leap cards a bad figure? Surely that's ok considering it's only 3 years old.

How can you tell the uptake has slowed and there is an increase in cards not being topped up?

I think the introduction of the teenage Leap card is a positive move. Firstly, it gets young commuters used to using the card. It shows the benefits of avoiding cash, and that will hopefully continue when they move onto college or migrate to an adult leap card. Secondly, it addresses the vague fare structure which was in place for teenagers. I believe there is lots more to be done in this area, but this is a start.

I am referring ONLY to ITS Purse enabled Leapcards,as the period ticket holders are outside of this particular discussion.

The core issue for me is the continuing high rate of Cash Fare payment when Leapcard offers c.20% discount...WTF

In the absence of statistics I am extrapolating from my daily experience,whereby I tend to ask Cash Fare payers if they are aware of/would consider using Leapcard.

I was initially suprised when a signifigant amount of those people would say....." I have one but.....etc etc "

What really surprises me however is the ongoing prevalence of such people,with some actually showing me the Leapcard and laughing...

Therefore,I would agree with the decision of the NTA to focus instead on the "Youth" market,as the compliant Public Transport users already have switched to Leapcard.

This now leaves the NTA with a decidedly entrenched Cash Paying sector who will need either gentle persuasion or force in order to effect the significant Jump in usership which the ITS project still requires.

And yes,after 12 years and €40 Million ITS expenditure,I consider 600,000 to be only a fair to middling return on the outlay.:(

Tow

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well Tow...you might just be onto something there....

http://jonwilliams.org/wordpress/2013/07/30/parkeon-wayfarer-tgx150-ticket-machine-wireless-lan-issues/

This bit particularly interests me...........surely not the case here....

This would be a firmware issue on the WiFi module, rather than the actual physical limitation on the chips.

ArmaniJeanss

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is looking like the NTA have finally realized that they have a problem with the Leapcard numbers.....the adult take-up has largely stalled,and with the numbers of empty Leapcards now steadily increasing,some other means is required...and here it is...directed straight at the "Scholar" 16 to 18 year old market and offering a VERY attractive option to save money.

It will indeed be interesting to see just how many of our young,educated 2nd-3rd Level youths will continue to pay ADULT fares at 16,when they could be paying CHILD Leapfares at 17....this process will be a more accurate indicator of our educational standards than any Leaving Certificate !

http://childleapcard.ie/

This approach is fantastic,however belated it may be....This really should have been Number ONE on the list of Leapcard's original introduction......:p

And now....what to do about the Adults.....

This is great news, sadly a few weeks too late for me as I had my 17yearold niece staying with me last month whilst working in Dublin and paying fares with an adult leap card.
Also should point out that the small print seems to imply that the 16-18 card is actually valid until 18 years and 364 days, which is even better.

As an aside when I asked about this last year and questioned the farcical age cutoffs I was told by a few of the usual crew here how 16 was apparently a perfectly fair age for a school goer to suddenly be launched into the world of paying adult fares.
Thankfully wiser heads have prevailed.

Dravokivich

well, 16/17/18 year olds still pay school fares when travelling to/from school. There was just no means for them to do so with a leap card. I'd expect that this is a result of complaints about that.

AlekSmart

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

This is great news, sadly a few weeks too late for me as I had my 17yearold niece staying with me last month whilst working in Dublin and paying fares with an adult leap card.

Also should point out that the small print seems to imply that the 16-18 card is actually valid until 18 years and 364 days, which is even better.

As an aside when I asked about this last year and questioned the farcical age cutoffs I was told by a few of the usual crew here how 16 was apparently a perfectly fair age for a school goer to suddenly be launched into the world of paying adult fares.
Thankfully wiser heads have prevailed.

Yep,the new Child Leap (Registered) is valid up until the 19th Birthday

Whether or not the 16 cut-off is farcical or not,that was/is the situation,always remembering that the entire Child Fare element is CONCESSIONARY,and nowhere enshrined in any regulations.

Of equal interest is that the 16 = Adult Fare situation remains in place for CASH-FARE Customers,which will be a very interesting study in....well...something relating to youth culture in the 21st Century

MOH

AlekSmart wrote: »

T

But 8.9 out of 10 Cats say they prefer Leapcard,so it's grand Ted,just Grand....;)

Plus that's an utterly meaningless statistic.
Well, more of an outright lie considering the way it's phrased indicates that at least 89% of all Leap card customers were asked about the card.

AlekSmart

Dravokivich wrote: »

well, 16/17/18 year olds still pay school fares when travelling to/from school. There was just no means for them to do so with a leap card. I'd expect that this is a result of complaints about that.

I understand,Dravokivich,that Marketing analysis and segmentation played a significant part in the new Child Leapcard introduction.

Such a Card was always included in the menu of "pending" developments.

The intention however,is to ensure that usage of Leapcard begins in a structured manner much earlier than heretofore,and targetting the "brightest & best" of our population is a VERY effective piece of marketing.

Child & Schoolchild Cash Fares remain at a stubbornly high level,which if extrapolated into adulthood would see Leapcard's penetration curve remaining flat,rather than rocketing ahead,as required to ensure the products commercial survival.

Get the Lepcard into a young persons hand BEFORE they accquire a Learner Permit and begin Driving Lessons,and you have a chance of retaining a Public Transport user,rather than see that person sit themselves into a nice little motor forever.

Add in the significant extra time,cost and application now required to obtain a Full Driving Licence,and a certain thought-process begins to emerge.....It remains to be seen whether it will succeed ?

Dravokivich

They already had leap cards for kids upto 16. All they are doing is re-launching them and changing the age range on the 2 types of cards to accommodate older school fare users. Otherwise, they would have brought out another card, without changing the 2 already in place.

It should never had needed to come to this though.

AlekSmart

Tow wrote: »

This would be a firmware issue on the WiFi module, rather than the actual physical limitation on the chips.

Phew ..thanks for that Tow...for a horrible moment I thought you writ ecumenical issue...!!!! :eek:

vickers209

Quick question for anyone who tops up online, whats the quickest that you have loaded the card at a tag on point after topping up online.
it says it can take up too 48 hours reading it online

but if i top up online head to the dart station half hour later will it work?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

vickers209

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ya but just wondering does anyone know the average wait time?

Dravokivich

Quickest will be overnight if you put in the order before 9pm(-ish).

These kind of things are run as bulk transactions in both directions overnight (For topups to be loaded onto the card / transaction history from the card).

Seaswimmer

Is there anything to stop a 3rd level student who was 18 last May and starting college in September using a child LEAP (16-18) until her 19th birthday.

ArmaniJeanss

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Is there anything to stop a 3rd level student who was 18 last May and starting college in September using a child LEAP (16-18) until her 19th birthday.

Seems absolutely fine according to the t&c.

AlekSmart

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Seems absolutely fine according to the t&c.

Thats fine,as long as it is the appropriate type of Child Leap for the age of the bearer...eg,a 17 year old cannot use an anonymous Child Leapcard,now only valid for children between 4 and 15.

Carawaystick

AlekSmart wrote: »

This as about as linky as I can find...but do bear in mind it's a Public Relations inspired Press Release...http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/cheaper-leap-fares-for-16-17-and-18-year-olds-from-august-1st/



Still proving somewhat difficult to get figures for the number of Leapcards "sold" which are not Topped up when the initial credit expires.

But 8.9 out of 10 Cats say they prefer Leapcard,so it's grand Ted,just Grand....;)

section 1.3 of the leapcard T&Cs says

The Leap Card is and remains the property of the Authority.

so it's hard to say that *any* leapcards have been "sold".

AlekSmart

Carawaystick wrote: »

section 1.3 of the leapcard T&Cs says

The Leap Card is and remains the property of the Authority.

so it's hard to say that *any* leapcards have been "sold".

Hard to beat the oul " "

Statistics just adore a good massage.

loyatemu

If I get on a Dublin Bus with my kids, can I pay for them all with my leap card (I know I can pay for additional adult passengers but its not clear if you can do the same for children)?

AlekSmart

loyatemu wrote: »

If I get on a Dublin Bus with my kids, can I pay for them all with my leap card (I know I can pay for additional adult passengers but its not clear if you can do the same for children)?

Yes,as long as you have sufficient funds in your purse,then you can pay for the entire Bus Load if you wish !

If you have childern who can travel alone then get to www.childleapcard.ie ASAP,remeber if they have their own ChildLeapcard,then they travel FREE on Dublin Bus from 11th to 24th August

No compulsion mine you,if they want to they can stick with Cash,and pay away....

Seaswimmer

Hi all.

I manage 5 leap cards from my account however my 18 year old currently using an adult LEAP is going to a child leap until she is 19. I have auto top up enabled on all the cards. Does anyone know if I unregister her current LEAP (and put it away safely) will the auto top up stay active if we re-register it and use it again in the future.

I am assuming you can still only register a maximum of 5 cards per account so this is why I need to unregister her current one.

Maestro84

I am starting a new job in Ballsbridge next month and I am thinking of commuting for the first few months from Navan. I would like to use the tax saver leap card. Would I be able to use this as I will need to take two buses, one to Dublin and one to Ballsbridge. Will the card work on both? Is it complicated to set up and use?

Also I was reading on the website about the card.
"Once you have received your Leap Card with your initial Taxsaver product, your employer will continue to renew your monthly or annual Taxsaver product as at present. However instead of receiving a new card each time, you will now go to any Payzone Leap Card agent where you will present your card to the instore validator where your Taxsaver product will be loaded onto your card."

If I'm reading this correctly and I get a monthly ticket. I will have to go into a shop and get it renewed. Considering there are no agents outside of Dublin this could be a bit awkward.

AlekSmart

Maestro84 wrote: »

I am starting a new job in Ballsbridge next month and I am thinking of commuting for the first few months from Navan. I would like to use the tax saver leap card. Would I be able to use this as I will need to take two buses, one to Dublin and one to Ballsbridge. Will the card work on both? Is it complicated to set up and use?

Also I was reading on the website about the card.
"Once you have received your Leap Card with your initial Taxsaver product, your employer will continue to renew your monthly or annual Taxsaver product as at present. However instead of receiving a new card each time, you will now go to any Payzone Leap Card agent where you will present your card to the instore validator where your Taxsaver product will be loaded onto your card."

If I'm reading this correctly and I get a monthly ticket. I will have to go into a shop and get it renewed. Considering there are no agents outside of Dublin this could be a bit awkward.

Once you get the appropriate Leap Product that combination should not present any difficulties.

The Payzone agent issue IS a bit of a bummer,for sure,but as of yet there's no alternative.

http://www.payzone.ie/paywithpayzone.jsp

Two in Ballsbridge,A Centra and a Spar,both with long opening hours.

It's worth bearring in mind that the Monthly Rambler/Zonal ticket will be available for collection from the last week of the preceeding month,with all thats required being a "Balance Enquiry" at the Payzone Terminal.

I would suggest that the NTA really do need to get their shytt together on this issue asap.

A network of Hardwired Top-Up Readers throughout the City (Think RTPI Pole ) would significantly increase the ease-of-use factor to Leapcard and Taxsaver.

Victor

I had a chat with a Leap Card agent.

They get about 4% gross for a top-up, i.e. they get 80 cents for s €20 top-up. However they get nothing for balance enquiries, which are required for ticket collection.

PriceWatch

This is the commission on leap card top ups....add in credit card charges....cost of machine rental from payzone....staff costs....it's really just a nuisance and customers don't always buy something else. Don't get me started on tourist customers...not their fault but surely there must be a better system for tourists?

€5.00 €0.15
€8.00 €0.24
€10.00 €0.30
€15.00 €0.38
€20.00 €0.50
€30.00 €0.75
€40.00 €1.00
€50.00 €1.25

Victor

PriceWatch wrote: »

Don't get me started on tourist customers...not their fault but surely there must be a better system for tourists?

Do you mean the tourists don't understand the system and so are looking for information from Payzone cashiers?

punisher5112

Victor wrote: »

Do you mean the tourists don't understand the system and so are looking for information from Payzone cashiers?

Yes as the same everyone thinks bus drivers are tourist info hot spots.

Even a lot of cashiers don't understand the leap system.

It will take around 10 years for people to catch on.

AlekSmart

PriceWatch wrote: »

This is the commission on leap card top ups....add in credit card charges....cost of machine rental from payzone....staff costs....it's really just a nuisance and customers don't always buy something else. Don't get me started on tourist customers...not their fault but surely there must be a better system for tourists?

€5.00 €0.15
€8.00 €0.24
€10.00 €0.30
€15.00 €0.38
€20.00 €0.50
€30.00 €0.75
€40.00 €1.00
€50.00 €1.25

Then surely it is open to the Payzone agent to surrender the Leapcard element ?

If enough Agents do this then some form of action will have to be taken to address the problem,IF it is that.

The NTA PR puffery speaks of 600,000 Leapcards issued,with enough additional usage generated by the new system coupled with,hopefully enhanced,Public Transport services,this rising tide should float all boats ?

Card Status/Balance Checks really should not require a visit to a Payzone Agent when the infrastructure already exists to bring it to the actual Bus Stop itself.

smellmepower

Don't know why they don't just stick a few dedicated leap TVM's near busy bus stop areas like College Green and O'Connell Street etc.Surely wouldn't be too expensive and would be a good on street marketing presence for Leap too.Much handier than having to go to a shop or LUAS stop to top up.