building a pc. (graphics cards)

LittleMc95

Can you add a graphics card if a motherboard has on board graphics?
and would there be much point in adding a cheap graphics card over this;

http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=43137&agid=1601

paired with this.

http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41226&agid=1617

nesf

Depends on what you want to do with it. If you plan on playing modern 3D games as opposed to flash games and similar then integrated graphics are not an option.

LittleMc95

but just in general would the integrated graphics be better then a very low end graphics card?

and why would they be out of the question with modern games?

nesf

LittleMc95 wrote: »

but just in general would the integrated graphics be better then a very low end graphics card?

and why would they be out of the question with modern games?

You need more raw power for modern games. Think of it as taking a bicycle to a car rally to compete, it's just not meant for the purpose but both cars and bikes are for getting you from A to B.

For a non-gaming PC, integrated graphics is more than acceptable. It's only if you're playing modern games that you need to care about graphics cards really.

Monotype

If you have an extra €30, you can get a Z68 board and 2500K.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=52008
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41224
The K processors have slightly better integrated graphics and allow you to overclock.

If you had an up to date low end graphics card, it would be better than integrated graphics. If it's modern games that you have in mind, it would still be a long way off. It would be like having a choice spending €100 or €200 to buy a car. If you have a set budget and want to play games, you should scale back on the processor and spend more on graphics.

LittleMc95

What's the difference in z68 and h 67?( Ifthey're the right models)

Monotype

Z68 will give you overclocking with "K" model processors, which can easily give you a 25% boost in CPU speed.

There's also a few additional features such as SSD caching (Smart Response Technology) which allows you to use small SSDs as cache - regularly used programs are automatically copied to the SSD which will open them much more quickly. Not tremendously useful, but good if you want a speed boost for hard drives and can only afford a small SSD or have an old SSD that isn't really big enough for regular use.

Finally, that's a "Gen 3" board which guarantees support for Intel's next lineup early next year. You can use the board's PCI-E 3 slot when using one of those processors which will give graphics cards additional bandwidth. This means that high end cards will be able to communicate faster with the rest of the system (which is really of no benefit with integrated graphics or lower end cards).

LittleMc95

Could you link me to a z68 mother board for under €100?

Monotype

^^^ Post #5, first link.

LittleMc95

Oh sorry didn't realise that's the one you were talking about.
Do you know of any boards like that with a HDMI out put on them?

-( i )- Wicker

Graphics cards have their own processor and memory, whereas on board graphics use some of your systems cpu and memory. Something to consider

LittleMc95

If I was to add a graphics card sometime later would it disable the onboard graphics or do I have to do it manually?
And would I get the ram back again?

Monotype

Here's a few others with HDMI. I haven't read reviews on these or looked into specifications much, so don't rush out to buy them without checking them out.

Asrock's ones have had good results this generation.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46922

Here's another Asrock.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=50899
Straight away, I see there's only two RAM slots. Not a major issue, but it does limit upgrading. If you get 8GB, it's likely to be enough for the lifetime of the system.

Gigabyte's one has got HDMI but no DVI or VGA which is a bit rubbish, so I don't think I'd go for that with integrated graphics.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=48249

When you put in a graphics card later, you get your RAM back. The only difference is that you plug your monitor into the graphics card instead (and get new drivers). With Z68 boards, I think that you can still connect to the motherboard as there's some situations where you can use both to switch between them, but I don't remember the details.

The advantage the MSI has over these is that it's the only Gen 3 board on HWV under €100.

Material Man

LittleMc95 wrote: »

What's the difference in z68 and h 67?( Ifthey're the right models)

The Z68 chipset takes the best features of its 2 predecessors and combines them.

The P67 allowed overclocking but doesn't allow access to the integrated graphics, whilst the H67 allowed access to the integrated graphics but doesn't allow overclocking. The Z68 allows both.

The Z68 is also designed to allow hybrid graphics, and so if you add a discrete GPU later, the system can utilise both graphic capabilities, depending on the amount of graphics power required for a particular task. To do this you need to run LucidLogix’s Virtu software.

The other key feature of the Z68 is it allows use of the Intel Smart Response Technology (ISRT). This uses a partition of an SSD as a cache allowing quicker loading for programs accessed frequently. Note this needs to be enabled when the system is first being set up. It cannot be added later (at least not without starting from scratch again).

Btw I wouldn't get too hung up on PCI Gen 3 technology. The fastest GPUs on the market still do not use the full bandwidth available on PCI Gen 2.

LittleMc95

Do you know of a z68 board with HDMI output for under €100?

Material Man

LittleMc95 wrote: »

Do you know of a z68 board with HDMI output for under €100?

Not for under €100, but for a little bit more I'd suggest the Asrock z68 extreme 3. It is currently available from Amazon.co.uk for £118 with free shipping. Here are its specs http://europe.asrock.com/downloadsite/manual/Z68%20Extreme3%20Gen3.pdf

LittleMc95

Alright sure I'll have a look and decide later.
Thanks for all that info it definitely helped me under stand about motherboards.

Monotype

All of them in post #13 have HDMI, but I'd recommend the Asrocks over the gigabyte.
The second one is a bit smaller if you want to use a more compact case, but it's still compatible with any standard case. The Pro3 Z68 is the better board though if you are getting a regular sized ATX case.

LittleMc95

Ah yeah i meant to look at them sorry.
Why would you pick Asrock over gigabyte?

Monotype

Monotype wrote: »

Gigabyte's one has got HDMI but no DVI or VGA

People here have bought plenty of Asrock Pro3 boards - both P67 and Z68 version and results have been positive.

LittleMc95

Would the:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41226&agid=1617

work with the:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46922&agid=1601

?

Also how do you know if a certain ram module with be compatible with a board?
eg would http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38052&agid=1192
work with:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46922&agid=1601

Eamonn Brophy

LittleMc95 wrote: »

Would the:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41226&agid=1617

work with the:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46922&agid=1601

?

Also how do you know if a certain ram module with be compatible with a board?
eg would http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38052&agid=1192
work with:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46922&agid=1601

Yes, for future reference, look at the socket type on the board, and the socket the processor uses on the item page

"Intel Core i5-2400 Box, LGA1155" So it requires a 1155 socket.
and
"ASRock Z68 Pro3 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX" It has a 1155 socket.

So you're good to go!

And that RAM will work fine with that Mobo, just plug and play.

LittleMc95

Yeah I was kinda guessing that about the socket types.

And is it that any ddr3 ram will fit a motherboard with a DDR3 slot?

Eamonn Brophy

LittleMc95 wrote: »

Yeah I was kinda guessing that about the socket types.

And is it that any ddr3 ram will fit a motherboard with a DDR3 slot?

Pretty much. There are exceptions of course. Some sockets will only take a max memory size for one stick, like some wont accept a 8gig stick in a slot. but that's motherboard specific and if you're using 4 gig sticks you'll be fine.

but yeah, all generic ddr3 sticks will work in any ddr3 slot.

Monotype

Monotype wrote: »

Z68 will give you overclocking with "K" model processors.

As EB said, the 2400 and that board will be compatible, but there's little point in getting a Z68 board if you're not going to avail of its main strength.

The cheapest K processor is the 2500K, which I linked to above.

If you need something clarified, just ask but make sure that you read the posts carefully or you'll be missing vital information!!!

LittleMc95

Ah I was just about to ask that.
Well i don't think I would be over clocking and I'm on a tight budget, so I would probably stick with the h67 and the 2400.

Is the only gain with the z68 and the 2500k the power to over clock?

Eamonn Brophy

LittleMc95 wrote: »

Ah I was just about to ask that.
Well i don't think I would be over clocking and I'm on a tight budget, so I would probably stick with the h67 and the 2400.

Is the only gain with the z68 and the 2500k the power to over clock?

There are lots of little things like slightly higher stock speeds, slightly bigger caches for the processor and the board chipset supports some extra stuff but it's all pretty minor, if you're not OC'ing don't bother. Spend that extra money on another part of the system instead.

LittleMc95

are stock fans alright for the i5 2400?

Monotype

I should point out that overclocking is extremely easy with this generation of processors.

Stock fan is enough - not that the fan itself is good quality but rather that the CPUs run fairly cool.

LittleMc95

is it only with the K models? and the z68?

Monotype

Overclocking? Yes - you need Z68 and 2500K. Or P67, but you can't use integrated graphics with that, unfortunately.