Hear/Dare Schemes... How are they fair?

fizzyorange

reznov wrote: »

An example of a person with a heart who should definitely benefit from such a scheme.

Awh thanks reznov, appreciate the kind words.

Also @RugbyandStalin....I don't even have words for your insensitivity.

Edit: RugbyandStalin...close enough. :pac:

QueenOfLeon

Stalin and Rugby appears to have closed his account so the infractions I was about to give out are a bit pointless.

Any further comments like that, however, will not be taken lightly.

deathbythelc

This thread is HORRIFICALLY insensitive.

Sure, there are people who abuse the system, but HEAR/DARE can help people who really need it, people who may not get to college otherwise.

OP, I think you really need to take a step back and come to the realisation that some people aren't as well off financially/genetically as you and they deserve something to help them along.

certifiedcrepe

Losing respect for the people on here who are saying the DARE scheme is not fair. It's not our fault we miss school and can't concentrate sometimes. there's allocated places so we're not taking any other people's places. There's more support in college to accommodate people with disabilities.

sarahmocks

Patchy~ wrote: »

I totally agree. It seems people with dyslexia can apply for DARE? Yeah its a disability but if you're dyslexic you're dyslexic...I mean there's a reason you dont achieve the points for the course you're trying to do. I dont mean that in a bad way at all, I dont really know how to put it.

HEAR is a little more understandable with the money for disadvantaged areas imo. But extra points? Bit far in my opinion.

Like I dont know - if someone cant attend school for some reason, why will they be able to attend college? If they can catch up on the college work they miss, why not the school work? I'm not trying to belittle people's problems but I mean, I could probably get the DARE points if I tried but I'd rather get it on my own points and work tbh.

I applied for DARE but for some reason my very annoying doctor (putting it nicely) refused to fill out the yoke so im 99% certain i won't get it! but to answer your question, what's wrong with me isn't as bad as it used to be and i dont have as many appointments as i used to so thankfully this year hasn't been as bad as others! but up till now i was missing pretty much a day a week! in 5th year i missed a lot of course work etc due to both appointments and the affects of my illness! of course i could have to miss college time next year, but most college courses dont have as strict a timetable (9-4 monday to friday) and as somebody else said most hospitals/doctors are pretty sound when it comes to suiting appointments to suit you! Hope i helped to clear things up! not sure if i did though i have a habit of rambling! ha sorry

sarahmocks

fizzyorange wrote: »

I agree that HEAR can be abused...but people saying being poor doesn't affect the points you will achieve because it's all just rote learning? Absolute crap. I have friends who are fairly wealthy, go to private schools etc and they have EVERYTHING done for them. Dinners made, clothes washed and ironed, even rooms cleaned! They have the best of everything and of course this will help them preform better in school than the average joe who eats sausages and chips every night for dinner, works part time, etc.

Myself, well I think I deserve all of the HEAR scheme benefits. I don't have parents and I live with my grandmother who is very ill. I am her primary carer but I don't get any money for it because I refuse to leave school. A lot of my time is taken up with looking after my nan, helping around the house, doing the shopping, etc. Obviously this allows for less time with school, but it can't be helped. So why should I not get into my college course with a 10% point reduction?

Fair Play to you, not many people our age would do something so selfless! you've obviously been through a lot so i hope the rest of your exams go well and get the course you want!

Queenalocin

Hi all,
just wondering if anyone has heard about their eligibility for DARE yet? The letters were to be sent out after the leaving cert and it would have been nice to know before the change of mind slips have to be in

Nicole.

Queenalocin wrote: »

Hi all,
just wondering if anyone has heard about their eligibility for DARE yet? The letters were to be sent out after the leaving cert and it would have been nice to know before the change of mind slips have to be in

I have applied for DARE and I haven't heard anything back yet.

Queenalocin

Just got an email from the people in DARE, letters were posted on Friday so they should be arrive early next week.

Twilighter107

Just in response to people claims that people who suffer from dyslexia shouldn't qualify for the DARE scheme. I'd like to tell you about me. I personally excel at English. I'm a solid A1 / A2 student and I'm very passionate about it as a subject. However, this is with a spelling waiver. Without that waiver I'd be brought down to, at maximum, a B1. Do you know how frustrating that is? And that's only for the waiver

I've been psychologically assessed and deemed a "concrete" learning. I like facts and rope learning like in Biology. I can't comprehend languages, which all college courses require. I study both Spanish and Irish every single night and despite the time and effort I put in I won't get beyond a B3 in ordinary Irish and a D would be a dream in Spanish cause I will be lucky to pass. My mind doesn't understand them and I can't fix that.

So you can say it's not fair but you're really at an unfair advantage then. You're brain is willing and happy to encompass all these lowly verbs and prepositions and mine isn't. When you open up your envelope and see a B2 in Spanish I may have failed though I probably worked just as hard, of not harder, than you. That's a huge downfall points wise. Yes I'm a highly intelligent girl, I love to read more than anything else and I love a majority of my subjects. I'm aiming high, for 530 points, because why should I let my dyslexia dictate my future? So you tell me I'm not entitled to put myself forward for a reduced point rate all you want but it is fair.

spurious

mackleman

If you're annoyed that people get in on reduced points because of HEAR maybe you should try putting yourself in their shoes and see how envious they must feel of anyone who can pay for grinds or afford to go to a good school with good teachers (it does make a difference).It isnt perfect but it's definately nessacary

As for DARE? where do i begin

I applied as did 2 of my best friends

one missed months of school for physical reasons and the other missed school because they were in pysch hospital - the are both more then capable of doing the courses they want and would have gotten the points - if they hadnt gotten ill

As for myself? As a result of illness i miss a lot of school and have really bad concentration issues, i understand everything and am well caable of getting the points - if i wasnt ill.

idk sorry if i seem angry but i am, i work every moment i physically can and its killing me but it's still not enough as a result of my illness? And im sitting here, reading this and thinking - DARE may be the only way i get into college but i would trade it in a heartbeat for what u have- to be healthy

EoghanIRL

mackleman wrote: »

If you're annoyed that people get in on reduced points because of HEAR maybe you should try putting yourself in their shoes and see how envious they must feel of anyone who can pay for grinds or afford to go to a good school with good teachers (it does make a difference).It isnt perfect but it's definately nessacary

As for DARE? where do i begin

I applied as did 2 of my best friends

one missed months of school for physical reasons and the other missed school because they were in pysch hospital - the are both more then capable of doing the courses they want and would have gotten the points - if they hadnt gotten ill

As for myself? As a result of illness i miss a lot of school and have really bad concentration issues, i understand everything and am well caable of getting the points - if i wasnt ill.

idk sorry if i seem angry but i am, i work every moment i physically can and its killing me but it's still not enough as a result of my illness? And im sitting here, reading this and thinking - DARE may be the only way i get into college but i would trade it in a heartbeat for what u have- to be healthy

I don't have a problem with the dare scheme. What you said is fair.

I disagree with the HEAR scheme completely.

mackleman wrote: »

If you're annoyed that people get in on reduced points because of HEAR maybe you should try putting yourself in their shoes and see how envious they must feel of anyone who can pay for grinds or afford to go to a good school with good teachers (it does make a difference).It isnt perfect but it's definately nessacary

These are not valid reasons for reduced points.
Plenty of people go to normal schools and don't get grinds. They still get the course they want. Why? - because they work hard.
I have a problem with Susi as well but giving some students easier access to a course is laughable in my opinion.
Either all students or no students should get special treatment.

mackleman

Hears about trying to lessen socio.economic inequality , as I said it's not perfect but the fact is its harder for people from poorer areas to get into college - for a number of reasons - and what do you mean by normal school? Public schools in nice areas?

Idk this whole thread just reeks of ' why don't poor people work harder ' and that's such an overly simplistic view, imma sleep

citadels

Just posting here to give some perspective. I am a Leaving Cert student (sitting the exams in a few weeks) who has applied to the HEAR scheme. I don't know if I have been accepted yet and will not know until July after the exams have finished.

My parents split up in December. Since then it's been really hard. I'm living with my mother and she tries as hard as we can but we do struggle. I'm lucky enough to be able to do supervised study after school, but we can barely afford it, and we have to sacrifice other luxuries to be able to.

The grinds market is worth between €20 and €50 million per year. Now, I go to a decent school. It's not a private school, but it's certainly not a bad one. Nearly all of the students in my year get grinds in at least one subject - most of them get grinds in a few. I'm intelligent enough but I struggle in maths and Spanish. Unlike my friends, I can't afford to pay for extra lessons to help me in them, so obviously I'm not going to do as well. Even though English is my best subject, it's difficult for me to compete with people who are getting loads of extra notes from grinds teachers once a week! It doesn't just stop with grinds either. I wasn't lucky enough to be able to shell out a few hundred euro to attend revision courses over Easter and Christmas. We're not saying that everybody who doesn't apply to the HEAR scheme can afford grinds; what we're saying is that if you can afford grinds, you're probably not applying to the HEAR scheme. You don't need it.

In theory, the mantra that "you put in what you get out" of the Leaving is true. If you study hard and often you will get good results. However, you simply cannot say that someone from a disadvantaged background has the same level of advantage as someone from a privileged one. It's not true and it's just not fair. The HEAR scheme is a reflection of what a deeply flawed system the Leaving Cert is. A recent report from the State Examinations Commission stated that the number of people in Ireland getting extra help from tutors is higher than the figures in France, Germany and England. Maybe if the system is overhauled and improved then we will not need schemes like this one, but until that happens I really don't think people have any right to complain about them.

Your whole capitalistic idea that people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds are lazy and abusing the system is insulting to anyone who benefits from these schemes. Not everyone comes from such a privileged background as you. And people who are saying that the HEAR scheme can be abused - the people running the scheme are not stupid. They will not willingly hand over money and college places to people who do not deserve it. Anyone on these schemes wholly deserves their place and to say otherwise is condescending and offensive.

Education is a human right. We are all entitled to it.

Do You Even Squat

citadels wrote: »

Just posting here to give some perspective. I am a Leaving Cert student (sitting the exams in a few weeks) who has applied to the HEAR scheme. I don't know if I have been accepted yet and will not know until July after the exams have finished.

My parents split up in December. Since then it's been really hard. I'm living with my mother and she tries as hard as we can but we do struggle. I'm lucky enough to be able to do supervised study after school, but we can barely afford it, and we have to sacrifice other luxuries to be able to.

The grinds market is worth between €20 and €50 million per year. Now, I go to a decent school. It's not a private school, but it's certainly not a bad one. Nearly all of the students in my year get grinds in at least one subject - most of them get grinds in a few. I'm intelligent enough but I struggle in maths and Spanish. Unlike my friends, I can't afford to pay for extra lessons to help me in them, so obviously I'm not going to do as well. Even though English is my best subject, it's difficult for me to compete with people who are getting loads of extra notes from grinds teachers once a week! It doesn't just stop with grinds either. I wasn't lucky enough to be able to shell out a few hundred euro to attend revision courses over Easter and Christmas. We're not saying that everybody who doesn't apply to the HEAR scheme can afford grinds; what we're saying is that if you can afford grinds, you're probably not applying to the HEAR scheme. You don't need it.

In theory, the mantra that "you put in what you get out" of the Leaving is true. If you study hard and often you will get good results. However, you simply cannot say that someone from a disadvantaged background has the same level of advantage as someone from a privileged one. It's not true and it's just not fair. The HEAR scheme is a reflection of what a deeply flawed system the Leaving Cert is. A recent report from the State Examinations Commission stated that the number of people in Ireland getting extra help from tutors is higher than the figures in France, Germany and England. Maybe if the system is overhauled and improved then we will not need schemes like this one, but until that happens I really don't think people have any right to complain about them.

Your whole capitalistic idea that people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds are lazy and abusing the system is insulting to anyone who benefits from these schemes. Not everyone comes from such a privileged background as you. And people who are saying that the HEAR scheme can be abused - the people running the scheme are not stupid. They will not willingly hand over money and college places to people who do not deserve it. Anyone on these schemes wholly deserves their place and to say otherwise is condescending and offensive.

Education is a human right. We are all entitled to it.

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
People who pay for grinds are pretty much píssing their money away in fairness, bar project maths as the subject is pretty messed up. The Leaving Cert is one of the easiest exams out there in terms of course content, maybe not in terms of volume. You pick up a book, learn off a piece of information, check if it follows the marking scheme and repeat. This applies for pretty much every subject.
The Leaving Cert rewards those with a strong work ethic, not intelligence.
Obviously there must be allowances made for those who come from a disadvantaged background (financially) but reducing entry points is ridiculous. One's financial income shouldn't affect one's ability to learn off arbitrary pieces of information by heart.
I am not in a well off position, not poor either, don't go to a fee paying school and don't pay for grinds. If someone wants their course bad enough, they'll put their head down and work for it.
I'm not saying that people who apply to the HEAR scheme are abusing the system etc, just pointing out that the scheme itself is ludicrous

spurious

There is a lot more to 'disadvantage' than just the financial aspect.