pumped insulation or rolls

LillySV

hi im gettin quotes for insulating my walls and attic ina two story house in galway from a number of lads and unsure who or what to go for..prices and suggested solutions for insulation differ to the extreme to say the least. One of the dilemmas i have at the moment is whether it is better to have attic pumped with the likes of the rockwool pumped insulation or whether the rolls of insulation are better for the job?? id appreciate any advice you can give cause i haventa clue of insulation or how much i should be payin for it

Gareth2011

LillySV wrote: »

hi im gettin quotes for insulating my walls and attic ina two story house in galway from a number of lads and unsure who or what to go for..prices and suggested solutions for insulation differ to the extreme to say the least. One of the dilemmas i have at the moment is whether it is better to have attic pumped with the likes of the rockwool pumped insulation or whether the rolls of insulation are better for the job?? id appreciate any advice you can give cause i haventa clue of insulation or how much i should be payin for it

Am I right in saying there is no insulation in the house at the moment? If there isn't are you having any problems with damp or mould of the walls, musty smells etc? If you are get this looked at first but if your not then go ahead with quotes.

Apparantly the blown in stuff is better than the roll out insulation as it forms more of a airtight barrier. The problem with it is that it can be blown into your vents that let air into the attic but its easily fixed and if installer is anyway good they wont do it its just being lazy I think. As for the walls if they are cavity you can get cavity wall insulation. This is where they drill small holes in your external wall and pump in the insulation that fills the cavity up. If they are solid walls you can just get the insulated plaster board, seal it up with plaster and then repaint over. Only draw back to this is that it can take away from the internal space of your room (especially if its a small room or house you will notice the difference).

I hope this helps. If you are getting it done by a company make sure they are registered with the SEAI as you can get grants to help with the cost of the insulation. If you get it done by someone who is not you are just losing money (in the form of grants) www.seai.ie for more info.

You will also need to get a BER done too if you are ever thinking of selling or renting the house.

I hope this helps you out

LillySV

thanks for reply..i heard from the rockwool site that the blown stuff reduces thermal bridging...i heard one or two elsewhere talk about puttin in rolls instead of the blown stuff they had in from afew years previous...i suppose the answer then is really that the blown stuff should be better provided its installed correctly..

Gareth2011

Exactly, It is slightly more expensive I believe but even if you go onto youtube and look there you will see it being done. I found this site today and this is how it should be done. <SNIP> On the gallery page photo 22/27 shows the thing they will put in to make sure it doesnt block your vents. Myabe give me these guys a call. They do the lot and look to be legit and do it properly and best of all it looks like they are registered with SEAI (Grants people) Save yourself a few bob when you can . I just want to say Im not promoting them, just found them by chance



Mod edit: Read the forum charter please. Infraction given.

kk09

What depth of insulation are you thinking here. The usual with a house this weather is 300 - 400mm of quilt insulation - Rockwool or the like.

You could install this easily yourself. and is done correctly (tight to the joists) will be fine.

I would recommend putting in one layer between the joists (to the depth this is (150 - 225mm) and an additional 200mm on top of the joists ( at expense of attic storage, which is the norm now.

The blow in is good because you are guaranteed tight fitting, but I would think is alot more expensive, will fill in around all the elec cables & maybe some plumbing - usually more suited to timber frame walls.

The preformance of the blow in is likely better, pending on the product (meaning you will need less depth to get the same a quilt, maybe saving storage space). Check out the thermal preformance for the products on the websites - Quilt products incl Isover or Rockwool to start - not sure bout blow in.

Something that is also very importent now is Air Tightness and at little expense (2 tubes of silicone) you could do alot of it yourself - basically go around the house and seal up any breezes coming in - around plumbing pipes, around window boards, attic access hatch, etc. - I did this and was shocked at the difference in heating my home.

LillySV

everyone has quoted me differnt..from 200 on top of old rolls to 350-400blow in..what sort of money should i be lookin at??i have attic rooms so ive only 38m sq to do in attic insulation..and pumped walls of two story...prices are fukin mad in my opinion...the grant criteria should be changed cause alota them insulation dudes are ridin people to take advantage of em..

kk09

LillySV wrote: »

everyone has quoted me differnt..from 200 on top of old rolls to 350-400blow in..what sort of money should i be lookin at??i have attic rooms so ive only 38m sq to do in attic insulation..and pumped walls of two story...prices are fukin mad in my opinion...the grant criteria should be changed cause alota them insulation dudes are ridin people to take advantage of em..

Best job is to quote the materials from Builder Provider, 200mm insulation is around €13/m2 - Work it out and see whats left for Labour - 2 Lads will do an attic (up to 50m2) in a half a day - say €150ish labour. Then you have the rest to work out similarly - The Pump In insulation (to cavity walls) should be €600 - €1000 subject to the hs size

brendan_donegal

What are the alternatives to rolls and pumped insulation?
Really need my attic for storage, but of course need to insulate?

Gareth2011

brendan_donegal wrote: »

What are the alternatives to rolls and pumped insulation?
Really need my attic for storage, but of course need to insulate?

Hi Brendan yes you deff need your attic insulated you lose about 25% of heat through your roof if its not insulated and if your burning oil or gas it will cost you alot. You can get spray foam insulation. Its exactly what it says its a foam that is sprayed and its hardens then but not too sure of the cost.

The rolls are the cheapest way you can go I think and if you didnt end up going with that you could try put in a raised walkway and storage area so your not pressing down on the insulation but this depends on how big your attic is in height and area. If you get it done by a regaistered contractor on the SEAI list you can get a grant for it. Visit www.SEAI.ie for more info. Your looking for likn that says your a homeowner and you need the better energyhomes scheme. I hope this helps.

brendan_donegal

I've been tool 100mm kingspan board will do the same as 400mm roll or pumped, any opinions?

BryanF

brendan_donegal wrote: »

I've been tool 100mm kingspan board will do the same as 400mm roll or pumped, any opinions?

how do you ensure its is fitted correctly?

brendan_donegal

BryanF wrote: »

how do you ensure its is fitted correctly?

Not sure, I assume it would be as tightly fitted as the roll stuff, well you could make sure by doing it yourself.
And I suppose you could tape to joists to ensure airtight seal?

Not sure, Is that why it isn't used as much or is it because it is more expensive?

BryanF

brendan_donegal wrote: »

Not sure, I assume it would be as tightly fitted as the roll stuff, well you could make sure by doing it yourself.
And I suppose you could tape to joists to ensure airtight seal?

Not sure, Is that why it isn't used as much or is it because it is more expensive?

Brendan, your the project manager and your still assuming stuff:eek: have a think about yourself up in the attic cutting each sheet of kingspan exactly to fit each rafter, (btw the way i'm assuming every rafter/joist in your roof isn't perfectly aligned so as to have the same width:D)

brendan_donegal

ok I get your point.
Right so other option is spray foam? Any opinions?
Any other options I'm missing?
Surely there is a simple solution out there so you can keep your storage space?

Gareth2011

I was looking on a diff thread and the kingspan stuff people say its very tough to get it straight and cut exaclty for each rafter so you will be left with small caps if you do this. Id say find a contractor that does the spray foam stuff and ask them about it. There are plenty of options but obsivously not each one is as best as the next. The blow in stuff is good for airtightness as it just sits loosly on the ceiling but not so easy to make sure you get an even spread of 300mm throughout the attic because its just blown in. I think your best bet it the spray foam. If your rafters are about 102mm deep you will only have enough height to do it to that debt.

But

If you want to store your stuff in the attic over a room that doesnt eally matter if its roasting or just cool you could do the spray foam there and put down loftboard for your storage. You could get that whole attic done to the debt of the rafter if you use you whole attic but then you need to sheet the whole thing pref with insulating board that you can walk on. So not kingspan or that I mean an insulated loftboard. You will need to find out what sort of U-Value you will get from 100-103mm spray foam. The lower it is the better. Even the rolled insulation the norm is 40-44 when you want to aim for lower than that.

BryanF

Gareth2011 wrote: »

I was looking on a diff thread and the kingspan stuff people say its very tough to get it straight and cut exaclty for each rafter

yes + its not breathable

Id say find a contractor that does the spray foam stuff and ask them about it. There are plenty of options but obsivously not each one is as best as the next. The blow in stuff is good for airtightness as it just sits loosly on the ceiling but not so easy to make sure you get an even spread of 300mm throughout the attic because its just blown in. I think your best bet it the spray foam. If your rafters are about 102mm deep you will only have enough height to do it to that debt.

its the worst thermal resistance of anty of the products + i'm not aware of an iab cert of its use on the floor

If you want to store your stuff in the attic over a room that doesnt eally matter if its roasting or just cool you could do the spray foam there and put down loftboard for your storage. You could get that whole attic done to the debt of the rafter if you use you whole attic but then you need to sheet the whole thing pref with insulating board that you can walk on. So not kingspan or that I mean an insulated loftboard. You will need to find out what sort of U-Value you will get from 100-103mm spray foam. The lower it is the better. Even the rolled insulation the norm is 40-44 when you want to aim for lower than that.

?

Brendan,
i must apologize i think i read your post incorrectly and presumed you were talking about the slopes (not the floor)

what i would do is get your chippy's to build a raise platform (with the platform going in after the insulation) where storage can be provided and then fill your floor + over your floor to a depth of 400mm with either mineral, hemp, or sheeps wool or even the blown cellulose. I'm presuming you have an adequate sealed vapour barrier below the joists for any solution. you could also, if you knew where your storage area was going to be, place one of the above insulations between the joists and then stack maybe 200mm of kingspan over this with a sheet of ply or osb on top to give you a storage platform.. id prefer the first option thou as you have better H&S

brendan_donegal

Probably go with the raised platform then, sounds like the best compromise...

brendan_donegal

Hold on just looking for a good product now for insulating the attic, given everyone says 300mm min what U value is this? How do I know what U Value is normal, people seem to be just sayimg it has to be 300mm regardless of the U value? Anyone know what material U value should be?

sydthebeat

300MM of standard quilted material usually gives you the required u value

if you are using a different product then you must check what thickness of the insulation equates to what u value.

sas

brendan_donegal wrote: »

Hold on just looking for a good product now for insulating the attic, given everyone says 300mm min what U value is this? How do I know what U Value is normal, people seem to be just sayimg it has to be 300mm regardless of the U value? Anyone know what material U value should be?

I'd recommend pumped cellulose on the flat, this can be pumped beneath any platform built for storage. It will be gap free and is a fine job.

My brother in law pumped 400mm into his attic.

Pretty good price wise too.

Gareth2011

sas wrote: »

I'd recommend pumped cellulose on the flat, this can be pumped beneath any platform built for storage. It will be gap free and is a fine job.

My brother in law pumped 400mm into his attic.

Pretty good price wise too.

Did he do it himself or a contractor done it? If contractor how much and what size attic?

sas

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Did he do it himself or a contractor done it? If contractor how much and what size attic?

He hired a company to do it. It is possible to buy loose fill bags but you'd be asking for hassle for feck all savings I'd imagine. Cellulose installation is a relatively inexpensive option.

My brother in laws attic is 300m2 and it was done in under a day to the 400mm.

Can't remember what he paid.

picorette

For the pumped insulation, what happens to the services such as electrical wires, downlighters and water pipes positioned on and between the attic joists ? Are they all encased in the insulant ? What if there is a problem with any of them in the future ?

Carlow52

as opposed to foam, all the kit is accessible as the insulation is not solid and it is much less of an irritant than fibre glass.

Down-lighters should be boxed out with appropriate material, just make sure if using trafos with MR 16s that it fits out the hole in ceiling:)

For wiring I always duct the 2.5 sq and upward cables, less concerned with 1.5 lighting.

Do-more

picorette wrote: »

For the pumped insulation, what happens to the services such as electrical wires, downlighters and water pipes positioned on and between the attic joists ? Are they all encased in the insulant ? What if there is a problem with any of them in the future ?

Unless downlighters are IC rated (Insulation covered) they should not be directly covered with insulation. If you Google you will find various boxes available specifically designed for the purpose or you will find home made solutions such as making boxes from ply or using biscuit tins.

I find a lot of discussion on UK forums about the need to de-rate electrical cables which are encased in insulation but I am not knowledgeable enough to comment but the sizing of cables is certainly something I will discuss with my electrical contractor before I build.

Regarding the use of blown cellulose insulation I have some direct experience on the subject.

Cellulose insulation is a wonderful material in many respects but one negative that I have found from 1st. hand experience is considerable settlement. This has also been related to me by others whose opinion I would respect again from their direct experience over a number of years.

In a situation where the cellulose is installed on the flat this may be less of a concern but I have severe reservations about installing cellulose in other applications such as walls or sloping roofs because of the danger of voids being created over time due to settlement.

From PM conversations with others on here they say that their installers say that the product they use and the installation methods they employ mean there is not a settlement issue.

So if going for cellulose you should discuss the issue fully with your prospective supplier and agree with them that they will top up your insulation FOC if you experience settlement.

Carlow52

on the flat, any installers I use always do extra to allow for settlement, so maybe 350 for 300.

The project should be based on a given weight of insulation and not just on volume. Any work I do there is a serious check kept on bags used, if not its like having an open bar at a wedding:) Longer hose runs lead to a more fluffy product which will settle a bit more

On the pumped walls and other enclosed cavities not all the blowers are rated for this process as it requires a higher level of pressure and a higher quality hose

In addition, and more importantly, it requires more skill and care and attention and post blow checking, all of which cost money as does the more expensive plant.