RIP Gary Speed - Mod Note 292

Liam O

Nailz wrote: »

Selfish is an awful thing to say about anyone in those circumstances, in my opinion, and a massive insult to those involved. We don't know what's going through the mind of someone in that instance, especially in the mind of someone who's depressed. It's a trait of depression to conceal it.

I don't know tbh, someone killing themselves in that fashion is quite selfish imo when you think about the young family he is leaving behind now probably emotionally scarred for life, obviously I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and I don't like disrespecting the dead but suicide really just gets to me. I'm saying this out of my own family's experience because I found myself quite angry at my cousin's stupidy to the point where those feelings almost cancelled out my sadness. Depression is a horrible thing obviously but suicide is a terrible decision imo and even though I know it is a sensitive subject and affects many, I honestly can't imagine ever being in any type of situation bar maybe a terminal illness and be able to go through with it.

Guy:Incognito

parker kent wrote: »

Who pays the agencies for the pictures? If newspapers did not pay for and print them, photographers would not be there. Ditto any paparazzi picture. 10 guys chase Sienna Miller at night because newspapers, magazines and websites will use them.

Well if you going that far you have to go the next step. They only buy and print them because the readers want them.

Anyway, a couple of pictures of a house from the road is harldy the end of the world. Likewise people givign out about the cause of death being printed. I doubt therees even one person that woudlnt be curious how he died if all that was realeased was "Gery Speed died". It's human nature to want to know.

adox

It's quite easy to pontificate from the outside. I'm sure that those who take their own lives mostly feel they don't have a choice.

Blatter

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know tbh, someone killing themselves in that fashion is quite selfish imo when you think about the young family he is leaving behind now probably emotionally scarred for life, obviously I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and I don't like disrespecting the dead but suicide really just gets to me. I'm saying this out of my own family's experience because I found myself quite angry at my cousin's stupidy to the point where those feelings almost cancelled out my sadness. Depression is a horrible thing obviously but suicide is a terrible decision imo and even though I know it is a sensitive subject and affects many, I honestly can't imagine ever being in any type of situation bar maybe a terminal illness and be able to go through with it.

I know exactly where your coming from and lots of people have those views. I heard a story before about a mother who hung herself in the family home only for her two children to find her lifeless body in the hallway. No child should ever have to see their Mother like that and one can't help but feel some degree of anger at the Mother in that situation.

The thing about depression is, it's a very complex issue and nobody fully understands it. You need to have it before you can fully understand what it's like for someone. From all accounts, it's can be one of the most horrible, darkest places to be in. Never feeling happy about things that you should, constant negative thoughts, headaches, muscle pains, loss of appetite(or overeating), constantly feeling tired and feeling hopeless about life in general are all symptoms of depression.

It must be a very dark place to be in, and for many of us who have been fortunate enough to never experience it, we must have compassion and understanding for those that have this terrible disease.

uncleoswald

efb wrote: »

As for how, only the macabre would want to know that

No offence but your post made my laugh a little. I can only imagine telling somebody that I was really upset because a loved one died and for that person not to eventually ask how it happened. It would be odd to say the least, like a sketch from a particularly dark Chris Morris show. Just like it would be very odd for the papers to mention peoples deaths but not go into even the slightest sort of detail.

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know tbh, someone killing themselves in that fashion is quite selfish imo when you think about the young family he is leaving behind now probably emotionally scarred for life, obviously I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and I don't like disrespecting the dead but suicide really just gets to me. I'm saying this out of my own family's experience because I found myself quite angry at my cousin's stupidy to the point where those feelings almost cancelled out my sadness. Depression is a horrible thing obviously but suicide is a terrible decision imo and even though I know it is a sensitive subject and affects many, I honestly can't imagine ever being in any type of situation bar maybe a terminal illness and be able to go through with it.

A few years ago a thread like this would be full of similar comments, about how it's a cowards way out etc... thankfully it seems we have largely moved on as a society. Often people who kill themselves honestly feel that their loved ones will be better off without them. Luckily for most of us such unimaginable thoughts remain unimaginable.

efb

uncleoswald wrote: »

No offence but your post made my laugh a little. I can only imagine telling somebody that I was really upset because a loved one died and for that person not to eventually ask how it happened. It would be odd to say the least, like a sketch from a particularly dark Chris Morris show. Just like it would be very odd for the papers to mention peoples deaths but not go into even the slightest sort of detail.


A few years ago a thread like this would be full of similar comments, about how it's a cowards way out etc... thankfully it seems we have largely moved on as a society. Often people who kill themselves honestly feel that their loved ones will be better off without them. Luckily for most of us such unimaginable thoughts remain unimaginable.

if some told you someone in their family killed themselves, you's ask how???

Thats enough for me.

niallo27

I think people using the word selfish here have never had some really close to them suffer with deep depression, they often appear the happiest people in the world but they are getting eaten up inside, they feel as if they have become a burden on their family and friends.

stryker mcqueen

Still in utter shock , Im a massive Leeds fan and loved Gary Speed , he was the king of player you just couldnt dislike , even when he moved to Everton I loved him , a model pro and always kept an eye on him .

Didnt think I would be so moved by this , but its just so sad , I feel so much for his loved ones .

There is only one name going on the back of my Leeds jersey , and that is SPEED 11 , a small tribute to a great man but I feel I should do something no matter how small .

Im sure he will be honoured in a special way by each and every football fan , player & club in the coming weeks .

RIP Gary

uncleoswald

efb wrote: »

if some told you someone in their family killed themselves, you's ask how???

Thats enough for me.

Nope you got the wrong end of the stick. we're talking about the idea that the papers shouldn't even have mentioned that it was suicide.

Now lets move on.

efb

uncleoswald wrote: »

Nope you got the wrong end of the stick. we're talking about the idea that the papers shouldn't even have mentioned that it was suicide.

Now lets move on.

How and why was what he said, I explained why it shouldn't be reported as suicide- as it increases the rate of suicide and b how

the how is what you quoted- thats what i took exception to.

ColeTrain

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know tbh, someone killing themselves in that fashion is quite selfish imo when you think about the young family he is leaving behind now probably emotionally scarred for life, obviously I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and I don't like disrespecting the dead but suicide really just gets to me. I'm saying this out of my own family's experience because I found myself quite angry at my cousin's stupidy to the point where those feelings almost cancelled out my sadness. Depression is a horrible thing obviously but suicide is a terrible decision imo and even though I know it is a sensitive subject and affects many, I honestly can't imagine ever being in any type of situation bar maybe a terminal illness and be able to go through with it.

The thing is, you're looking at things logically. In most of these cases I'd imagine the person who committed suicide was not thinking anyway what we would deem as normal. That is part of the illness itself. I used to hold the same viewpoint as you. I've gone to funerals of young people close to me and saw the pain that their passing created. Now I just feel sorry for all involved in these cases. How dark must their thoughts must be to go all the way and take their own life.

efb

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

Hank Scorpio

efb wrote: »

I know what I'm talking about here.

In your opinion of course. They're is other threads on boards for this type of argument/discussion, I hope this thread isn't spoiled by it.

uncleoswald

efb wrote: »

How and why was what he said, I explained why it shouldn't be reported as suicide- as it increases the rate of suicide and b how
the how is what you quoted- thats what i took exception to.

So should the press lie or just not report how any deaths occur as it will be fairly obvious to spot otherwise?

Anyway as I said it was a misunderstanding about the 'how quote' so lets move on.

efb

"No foul play suspected" "police not looking for anyone in their enquires"

lots of way to say it, without saying it.

MagicMarker

efb wrote: »

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

Don't be so ridiculous, it's clear that you haven't a clue.

niallo27

efb wrote: »

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

but their reasons for doing what they did being accepted can be understood, thats from my own personal experience anyway.

Chucky the tree

efb wrote: »

Suicide is by definition a selfish act, its not condemning the person for doing it, but it is what it is.

If you can't go on for yourself go on for the sake of the ones that you love. Suicide can't be justified.

So asking someone to go on with a situation they hate isn't selfish?

niallo27

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So asking someone to go on with a situation they hate isn't selfish?

Good point that.

MagicMarker

fryup wrote: »

here it is

I haven't kept up with the thread, is it know what rumour he's referring to?

efb

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So asking someone to go on with life they hate/are not happy with isn't selfish?

if you are the other person you try to help them get through the dark place, not tell them not to kill themselves because of others. Telling them how much they mean to others may help dispel their feeling of worthlessness though.

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

efb

niallo27 wrote: »

but their reasons for doing what they did being accepted can be understood, thats from my own personal experience anyway.

I am not saying you can't understand the reasoning, but it doesn't make the act any less selfish.

uncleoswald

efb wrote: »

"No foul play suspected" "police not looking for anyone in their enquires"

lots of way to say it, without saying it.

But then you are just dancing around the word 'suicide.' Everyone will know exactly what happened anyway.

Suicide has been brushed under the carpet for far too long in Ireland, particularly in rural regions. While I understand that copycat suicides can occur in the immediate aftermath, I don't yours is a practical solution.

monkey9

MagicMarker wrote: »

I haven't kept up with the thread, is it know what rumour he's referring to?

Just the rumour at the time that Gary Speed had died. That's why he texted to make sure he was ok and the rumour was untrue. Obviously, he never got a reply. Heartbreaking stuff!!

MUSEIST

efb wrote: »

if you are the other person you try to help them get through the dark place, not tell them not to kill themselves because of others. Telling them how much they mean to others may help dispel their feeling of worthlessness though.

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

Sadly though in depression people often think that family and friends would be better off if they were gone and this is how they feel and justify the act. It is not logical but thats where the mind goes sadly.

Da Shins Kelly

efb wrote: »

if you are the other person you try to help them get through the dark place, not tell them not to kill themselves because of others. Telling them how much they mean to others may help dispel their feeling of worthlessness though.

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

Does this debate really need to be brought up now? What's done is done, and it's a very sad situation for everyone involved. It's not really the time to be having arguments about whether suicide is selfish or not. It's the time for remembering someone and expressing condolences.

The suicide debate can be had another time.

efb

uncleoswald wrote: »

But then you are just dancing around the word 'suicide.' Everyone will know exactly what happened anyway.

Suicide has been brushed under the carpet for far too long in Ireland, particularly in rural regions. While I understand that copycat suicides can occur in the immediate aftermath, I don't yours is a practical solution.

well thats how it is reported and that method is accepted by the medical community.

MagicMarker

efb wrote: »

But if you are the person feeling suicidal and you can't go on for yourself, you can try to go on for the sake of others.

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

efb

MagicMarker wrote: »

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

i am saying the act of suicide is a selfish one.

I am very aware of what depression is.

MagicMarker

efb wrote: »

i am saying the act of suicide is a selfish one..

And I just explained to you how it's not.

efb

MagicMarker wrote: »

And I just explained to you how it's not.

know, you explained how people who are committing suicide have convinced the selfish act if, incorrectly, a selfless one.

This doesn't make the person selfish, they are not of sound mind, but the act, by definition, remains selfish.

Paul Tergat

ffs leave the thread for tributes wont ya?

MagicMarker

efb wrote: »

know, you explained how people who are committing suicide have convinced the selfish act if, incorrectly, a selfless one.

This doesn't make the person selfish, they are not of sound mind, but the act, by definition, remains selfish.

clubberlang12

Typical f%^king Boards bull****. Can't even leave the thread as a condolences thread.

Crazy Horse 6

Jesus this forum is the pits sometimes.

Strongbow10

MagicMarker wrote: »

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

Well said, you took the words right out of my mouth.

There are minority instances where suicide is done on a whim however. Depression may not have been in the equation in Gary Speeds case, we may never know.

People can gossip all they want about the circumstances, its likely he had his demons but theres a chance something drastic occured in his personal life that left him distraught and unable to go on.

Its something we just don't know.

RIP Gary Speed, you were a great professional and you will be a great loss Welsh football and the game in general.

uncleoswald

efb wrote: »

well thats how it is reported and that method is accepted by the medical community.

Not very practical when talking about public figures is it? Yes of course the press should not delve into speculation, methods and photos of the scene, anything that might glorify the act. I believe research shows a greater impact on the method of suicide after such media story, rather then the amount of suicides. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder is there an increase in people seeking help in the aftermath as well?

But I apologies for helping to dis-rail the tributes thread. Night and RIP to a true Premiership legend.

Mr.Nice Guy

I was shocked and saddened to hear of his death. He seemed to be doing so well with Wales and was a player fans of my generation and above both remembered and respected. I always enjoyed hearing him speak on television and he came across as a real gent. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.

tinofapples

Rest in peace Gary. You have left a nice guy impression on all of us that watched football over the last 20+ years.

wonderboysam

RIP Speedo

RasTa

I got a PM from a new user who asked me to post this on his behalf

wonderfulllife wrote:

RIP Gary Speed. Fantastic pro.

Such a shame a Welsh side containing at times Speed, Rush, Giggs, Hartson etc never made it to the big stage, which in truth makes me glad we have seen Duff, Keane x2, Given etc at a major tournament. Not as often as we'd like but that's another days discussion.

I view Gary as a Welsh Roy Keane, in that he had no fancy Ronaldo tricks and skills, but gave it 100% on the pitch, an excellent good passer with a good shot on him, a great header and maximised the ability he had. Similar to Keane, a different type of personality with the same skillset would not have succeeded as a professional.


I've read the thread with interest but can't post on the forum. I'd just like to say a few things:

Personally, I dont believe for one minute Gary Speed suffered any underlying mental health issues. I'll get to that in a minute. I am glad, however, it has highlighted the mental health issue. Even bad debate on a good issue is, at least, debate.

I'm 29 years old and i suffer from depression, panic disorder and an anxiety related cluster of personality disorder. I have been treated over the years with medications (lexapro, xanax, propranolol, klonopin) and am in the early stages of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). Life has been challenging for me in recent years but i view my illnesses as a temporary wheelchair for my mind. It's a fact of life that an actual wheelchair user will get more sympathy and support than someone with a mental problem, people respond better to the visual versus the unseen. I don't think the phrases "man up", "we all have problems", "stop being so lazy" would be directed at a wheelchair user.

I'm probably a 'normal' 29 year old in many respects, few hundred facebook friends, when i do go out on weekends i'm "1 of the lads" upbeat, having the craic. Of course i dont have 300 real friends and probably like everyone on social networking i have a small handful of close friends and another couple hundred i either went to school with, see in the pub now and again etc. In any case, of all those 'friends' who know me in some capacity, very few know of my problems. The battle with depression, as Stan Collymore alluded to, means when i do manage to get out i am usually on good form. They don't "get it" simply because there is nothing "to get". They see me drunk in Reillys or Coppers or somewhere in town getting pissed!

So, in that sense, it may seem plausible to a lot of you that Speed suffered an underlying mental illness.

The reality, for me at least, is this: It is impossible to harbour clinical depression and anxiety without close loved ones being aware of it. There have been days, weeks even, where i have been bed-bound. Taking a shower is an ordeal, brushing my teeth seems about as easy as Quantum Physics, eating and sleeping are challenges. Anybody who has gone through this terrible illness can testify to this. The simple things are not simple anymore. I've gone through periods of "being strong", of "hiding it away" or "man'ing up" but the bottom line is that, on a basic behavioural level, your loved ones will always know/suspect/worry.

There have been literally hundreds of testimonials from Gary Speeds friends, colleagues, journalists etc as to his positive, upbeat state of mind over his entire life, but most telling is that his wife, father and close family had no knowledge whatsoever of any depression related problems. There is simply no way that this has been a long term illness covered up by a "strong" man.

Whether it comes out or not, i believe this is a situation where a specific event has triggered such a heartbreaking situation. It's irrelevant on a certain level when a man has died but i won't be shocked by a shocking revelation coming out. Or something seemingly trivial to us that was important to him. Ryan Giggs, Tiger Woods, Bernie Madoff, Salaman Butt, Michelle de Bruin....whatever your opinion of that list, there's an admirable strength required to cope when the life you knew has imploded, self-inflicted or otherwise. A different person, a different mentality and it could be a tipping point.

I'm just glad that this has encouraged debate on mental health. I remember when Katy French died i was glued to Boards looking at the reaction. In between the "never heard of her" or "who cares", some genuinely good debate on drug use/misuse came out of that sad situation. Gary Speed is univerally liked, it seems, thankfully no negative bashing going on, but still prompting the same debate - a tiny positive to take out of a sad situation.

If you know anybody acting a bit off, a bit down or depressed, SOMETIMES the appropriate response IS "man up, lets go for a pint". People have bad days, they have bad weeks, it doesn't make them depressed and you don't need to phone the Samaritans!

On the other hand if you know somebody suffering from depression, remember this: "Stop feeling sorry for yourself", "we all have problems", "catch on to yourself and get out of bed ya lazy bollix" etc is not help. During some of my darkest times, a close friend used to call around and physically come to my bedroom saying "right we're going for a walk". And we would go for a walk and during the walk i'd be hating him for putting me through this when i just wanted my bed. But without friends like him, i don't know where i would be. We all have busy lives and problems, and it's a recession. Going for a walk, making a phone call, lending an ear instead of giving an earfull.....these are all cheap or free and, trust me, the person might not thank you for it at the time but it will help them.

RIP gary. In the spirit of my post and with Xmas upcoming i'll leave you with this. Thanks, God Bless.

"Remember no man is a failure who has friends" - It's A Wonderful Life (1946)

Blatter

^^^

Superb post and it is something that had crossed my mind with regards Gary Speed.

It's very plausible(and well known) that sufferers of depression can hide their disease to most people on the outside. But with regards hiding it from your close friends and family members, it does seem unlikely that they wouldn't pick up on at least some of the symptoms. Especially if the actual depression was horrendous enough for the sufferer to contemplate and indeed commit suicide.

People can and do commit suicide due to pressure and stress, which is different from depression. Obviously I'm not an expert, so I personally can't tell whether it was possible Gary Speed was depressed or not, but it did cross my mind that he may not have been, after some reflection.

Regardless of the true facts, facts that we may never learn, the discussion it has stimulated on mental health is probably the only good thing that will come of this awful tragedy.

efb

I want to apologize for being part of the discussion that dragged this thread off topic, my views remain steadfast but this wasn't/isn't the correct thread for a discussion of that nature. If the mods remove all the posts I certainly would understand.

It's been a very emotional few days for me, as I'm sure it's been for a lot on here.

Gods Speed, Gary Speed. RIP

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

The fact that there's no note or anything(released so far anyway) just adds to the mystery.

I had a cousin who committed suicide in similar circumstances. He was a very happy person and then one day his parents came home and found him dead, completely out of the blue as he was out socialising with the family just a day before. I was very angry at him for that as I seen the effect it had on the people he left behind and while I feel I should be angry at Speed for being so selfish, I just find it hard to feel anger at Speed for some reason. He just doesn't seem like the type of guy and seemed to not be depressed at all. It's a really strange thing and seemed to be without reason at all.

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know tbh, someone killing themselves in that fashion is quite selfish imo when you think about the young family he is leaving behind now probably emotionally scarred for life, obviously I don't know what was going on behind closed doors and I don't like disrespecting the dead but suicide really just gets to me. I'm saying this out of my own family's experience because I found myself quite angry at my cousin's stupidy to the point where those feelings almost cancelled out my sadness. Depression is a horrible thing obviously but suicide is a terrible decision imo and even though I know it is a sensitive subject and affects many, I honestly can't imagine ever being in any type of situation bar maybe a terminal illness and be able to go through with it.

I cringe when I hear people calling suicide a "selfish act".

GavRedKing

Just want to pay my respects to a EPL great. Alwatys gave his all and left everything out on the pitch.

No matter what the circumstances surronding his death the world has losta talent and a family have lost a son, father, husband.

RIP Gary.

Leeds fans plan to sing his name for 11 mins from the 11th minute in their match away to Forest.

Nice touch.

Joey Barton rant on Twitter brandishing suicide selfish. Not the cleverest guy.

PREMIERSHIP footballer Joey Barton has provoked much criticism by calling the weekend suicide of Welsh manager Gary Speed ‘selfish’.
The Queens Park Rangers captain refused to apologise for his insensitive comments despite an outcry from others on the social networking site.
Garry Speed’s wife Louise found his body hanged in the garage of their luxury home on Sunday.
On Twitter, Barton wrote: “Just hearing about Gary Speed, to say am shocked is an understatement. My thoughts are with his family.”
But he soon followed up with: “Suicide is a mix of the most tragic, most selfish, most terrible (and I want to believe preventable) acts out there.”
When other users objected to his views he responded: “Feedback on here, small minority as usual strongly disagree with what I said. If they read carefully or had half a brain, they'd understand.”
Football fans and suicide prevention groups criticised Barton’s comments, according to the Daily Mail.
Malcolm Clarke - chairman of the Football Supporters' Federation told the Daily Star: “This is completely insensitive and inappropriate. It is disrespectful to Gary's family. We should be concentrating on the positive impact he made on the game at a time like this.”
Counsellor Beth Neil, from the Welsh branch of Survivors of Bereavement By Suicide, added: “He has no idea what kind of trauma Gary was going through. This is just sick.”
Joey Barton is no stranger to controversy with a career marked by disciplinary problems.
He was sentenced to six months' imprisonment in 2008 for assault during an incident outside a McDonald’s restaurant in Liverpool and served 77 days in jail.
He was also given a four months suspended sentence after admitting assault occasioning actual bodily harm on former teammate Ousmane Dabo during a training ground dispute in an incident that ended his Manchester City career

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/twitter-rant-on-speed-suicide-calling-him-lsquoselfishrsquo-sparks-fury-2948237.html

madma

Blatter wrote: »

^^^

Superb post and it is something that had crossed my mind with regards Gary Speed.

It's very plausible(and well known) that sufferers of depression can hide their disease to most people on the outside. But with regards hiding it from your close friends and family members, it does seem unlikely that they wouldn't pick up on at least some of the symptoms. Especially if the actual depression was horrendous enough for the sufferer to contemplate and indeed commit suicide.

People can and do commit suicide due to pressure and stress, which is different from depression. Obviously I'm not an expert, so I personally can't tell whether it was possible Gary Speed was depressed or not, but it did cross my mind that he may not have been, after some reflection.

Regardless of the true facts, facts that we may never learn, the discussion it has stimulated on mental health is probably the only good thing that will come of this awful tragedy.

actually agree with that poster thats not on this forum and good to read that others think that too as all over the news,papers,forums etc is just depression is said to be the reason. there is more to it that that and whether that is found out is another thing, not going to speculate as this is a tribute thread and he was a great player and bloke, just hope its found out and for the public too.

SlickRic

RIP.

a smashing player, one that was really underrated in his time. yes, he's a legend at each of the clubs he's been at, but i don't think he got half the recognition he deserves elsewhere for what a truly remarkable professional, as well as talented footballer, he was.

depression is an illness close to my family, and it's one that is so difficult for those on the outside to understand. it grips tightly to the person, and is so difficult to loosen. for those around as well, it's so hard, because when you don't understand what's going on inside a person's head, it's so easy to become a number of things...be it complacent in not giving the support the person maybe needs, or impatient in wanting the person to "snap out of it".

it's something so few really understand, and i certainly don't yet. but what this has honestly taught me so far, is that it's never wrong to get alongside someone, even if you don't think they need it, or if you think you have little to offer...your guidance, love and support can mean everything to someone, and be the difference in which way that person turns.

i don't know Gary Speed's circumstances. i don't know his family or friends. i don't know the support he's had for what we're all assuming is this illness he had. but i have no doubt after seeing the outpouring from so many of those close to him, that he was privileged to have many around him who loved him and supported him. what they must be going through now is horrific. the questions they must be asking of themselves, "what could i have done?!", "what if i'd done this?"...etc.

i've faith he had great people around him, and all it shows is just how deadly depression can be.

i don't believe depression is always selfish, or always selfless. it's not a black and white issue. but it's not a debate anybody should be having, or even alluding to, a couple of days after the tragedy. that is for another day.

what i do know, is that my memories of Gary Speed are ones of a model professional, a wand of a left foot, and a willingness to sacrifice for the shirt on his back that ultimately made him captain of any club he joined. i think it was Cam Newton who said that he's always just "been there". he was a constant. a football man. a legend.

you really don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.

as i say, legend.

Liam O

rarnes1 wrote: »

Joey Barton rant on Twitter brandishing suicide selfish. Not the cleverest guy.



http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/twitter-rant-on-speed-suicide-calling-him-lsquoselfishrsquo-sparks-fury-2948237.html

pretty much my feelings on the subject tbh, don't see how what he said was 'sick'. As usual people only read part of what he says and make out that's the only thing he's saying. He also said it was tragic and his thoughts are with the family. Obviously it's a terrible thing and I feel sorry for him and his family but there are many other ways of dealing with it than suicide and I'm willing to celebrate his life rather than focus on his death and I wont pretend to be able to comprehend what he was going through.