Job Bridge scheme - A wolf in sheep's clothing?

SeaFields

JustMary wrote: »

And in issue in real-world workplaces is that some qualified people expect to be doing "qualified" work immediately, and are disappointed that they have to start doing the "menial" work too, while they learn that a 75% job, which got a nice pass at university, counts for nothing in the workforce. So I wouldn't always rate the opinion of job-holders about whether they're gaining useful expereince or not.

This wasn't an issue before the recession. Businesses happily took on employees fully in the knowledge they needed to be trained up.

Many 3rd level institutions (particularly the VECs and IT's) incorporate a work experience element into their courses - the passing of which is fundamental to gaining the qualification.

This scheme has simply opened up the door for exploitation of a failing economy and work force on its knees. The sooner its disbanded the better for the entire economy so real jobs can be created and not simply the government optics of reducing the live register through this disaster.

frag420

Hi Folks,

Just my input..............I started my internship this week. I approached the company I wanted to work for in Oct. They are a multinational company. I got a reply the following day from them. They basically said that they had a meeting the evening before(when I sent the mail) about advertising for an intern so I just saved them the cost and would I be interested in calling in for a chat.
Anyways I met the head of the dept I was interested in working in. We had a great chat, he told me where that dept was, where it was going and their aims going forward and how they needed to bolster the team by adding an intern. He even said that he would prefer if they got someone in on a salary and would look into it for me. A week later I met the MD of the company. We also had a great chat. I outlined how I would like to progress over the next 6 mths and where I want to be then. From the conversation I could see we were both on the same page and this put my mind at ease.

So here I am a few days into my internship. Ok so I did not get salary but I am happy so far. I am working with a great team, I am not the office coffee monkey and I am actually active in the role.

So my advice would be to approach the companies you want to work for and ask them would they be willing to offer you an internship. Have a couple of meetings with them to gauge if they are serious about getting someone in with the possibility of a full time position at the end of the internship or are they looking for free labour. If you are happy then outline and agree a learning path with monthly meetings to access where you are, anything you need to work harder on and what to expect the following month and work hard!!

Lastly remember that this is about gaining experience so if there is no position at the end of your internship(which may be the reality due to any number of reasons) that your experience will stand to you. Many employers in your industry will see the fact you worked unpaid in order to learn and will look at this favourably and it will open doors!!!

Anyways I am here to learn so must get back to work. I will try and pop back in here to update as the months go by.

frAg

kadman

frag420 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Just my input..............I started my internship this week. I approached the company I wanted to work for in Oct. They are a multinational company. I got a reply the following day from them. They basically said that they had a meeting the evening before(when I sent the mail) about advertising for an intern so I just saved them the cost and would I be interested in calling in for a chat.
Anyways I met the head of the dept I was interested in working in. We had a great chat, he told me where that dept was, where it was going and their aims going forward and how they needed to bolster the team by adding an intern. He even said that he would prefer if they got someone in on a salary and would look into it for me. A week later I met the MD of the company. We also had a great chat. I outlined how I would like to progress over the next 6 mths and where I want to be then. From the conversation I could see we were both on the same page and this put my mind at ease.

So here I am a few days into my internship. Ok so I did not get salary but I am happy so far. I am working with a great team, I am not the office coffee monkey and I am actually active in the role.

So my advice would be to approach the companies you want to work for and ask them would they be willing to offer you an internship. Have a couple of meetings with them to gauge if they are serious about getting someone in with the possibility of a full time position at the end of the internship or are they looking for free labour. If you are happy then outline and agree a learning path with monthly meetings to access where you are, anything you need to work harder on and what to expect the following month and work hard!!

Lastly remember that this is about gaining experience so if there is no position at the end of your internship(which may be the reality due to any number of reasons) that your experience will stand to you. Many employers in your industry will see the fact you worked unpaid in order to learn and will look at this favourably and it will open doors!!!

Anyways I am here to learn so must get back to work. I will try and pop back in here to update as the months go by.

frAg

Good for you, and I hope things work out for you.

But in all fairness, saying that they would prefer some one in on a salary, and then not offer you one. Saying they will look into it, is a bit of a joke.

If they are a large multinational, they could have made that salary position happen for you immediately. I wouldn,t hold my breath on that one.

kadman

frag420

I maybe should have explained that better. When I met the head of the dept I was looking to work in he stressed he would prefer that the company offered a salary as he believed that it would produce a better performance from whomever came in. This however was just his idea and the final decision was not up to him. Remember they were looking for an intern initially and not someone for a salaried position. Having spoken to another person in the office who came in on an internship she was only an intern for three months before they made her permenent and on salary so I dont think they are looking to fleece me. Lucky though that the industry is in good shape so that if after six months they dont or cant offer me a position then I should have no problem getting a position with their competitors but ultimatley would like to stay there as it would look better on Cv. Time will tell............

frAg

Easy Rod

Job bridge worked for me. I was given loads of experience in various different areas, even had my own office! After 4 months working there i was offered a salaried job by a large consulting firm, the company i was working for were desperate to keep me on but couldn't get the headcount.

It really depends on the company- some take advantage of the system others don't.

AnnyHallsal

There are definitely valuable opportunities available via Job Bridge. And there is definite exploitation going on adversely affecting employment.

An example: someone I know applied for a creative position in a highly profitable company. It went to someone more experienced, though not fully experienced, so fair enough. He was then offered an admin internship by the company. He turned it down. He has admin experience coming out his ears. Why should that highly profitable business not pay someone to do their admin?

As someone who keeps an eye on jobs sites, there are definitely less paid positions available in numerous sectors than there were last year, as a significant percentage of what were previously entry-level positions now appear as internships.

Mrs OBumble

kadman wrote: »

If they are a large multinational, they could have made that salary position happen for you immediately.

Hmm, if that's been your experience with multi-nationals, then I'm very pleased for you. Many people would report just the opposite, though.

kadman

JustMary wrote: »

Hmm, if that's been your experience with multi-nationals, then I'm very pleased for you. Many people would report just the opposite, though.

Maybe I should clarify what I meant exactly.

I meant that they could have decided whether it was going to be a salaried role, or an intern ship, at the interview , or prior to it. there,s no need for extensive consultation for that decision.

Looking into it. Whats to look into. Its a simple decision really. Part of the interview process, if the candidate suits the bill. Its not rocket science.

I did it whenever I was interviewing people for positions.

kadman

Mrs OBumble

kadman wrote: »

Is someone you know benefitting from using an intern for their business. A partner or family member perhaps.

Are you working on an iternship, or is your partner that has a business, using the intern scheme.

No: I'm on contract to a multi-national, who almost certainly have some interns (paid, I think) in their ranks. But I'm not one - nor would I be unless I wanted to get some experience in a field that I had no experience in.

My partner's a sole trader. Never has had staff, and never will.

My extended family - no idea, I don't talk business with them. Don't even know what some of them do.

On principle, I believe that everyone should be paid. In practice, I know that people who don't have experience need to have a way of being more attractive to an employer than others who are experienced - internship is one of the few options available to them. Sad but true, in the current economy.

kadman

JustMary wrote: »

No: I'm on contract to a multi-national, who almost certainly have some interns (paid, I think) in their ranks. But I'm not one - nor would I be unless I wanted to get some experience in a field that I had no experience in.

My partner's a sole trader. Never has had staff, and never will.

My extended family - no idea, I don't talk business with them. Don't even know what some of them do.

On principle, I believe that everyone should be paid. In practice, I know that people who don't have experience need to have a way of being more attractive to an employer than others who are experienced - internship is one of the few options available to them. Sad but true, in the current economy.

Agreed, thanks for the honest answer:)

kadman

jaffaD

frag420 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Just my input..............I started my internship this week. I approached the company I wanted to work for in Oct. They are a multinational company. I got a reply the following day from them. They basically said that they had a meeting the evening before(when I sent the mail) about advertising for an intern so I just saved them the cost and would I be interested in calling in for a chat.
Anyways I met the head of the dept I was interested in working in. We had a great chat, he told me where that dept was, where it was going and their aims going forward and how they needed to bolster the team by adding an intern. He even said that he would prefer if they got someone in on a salary and would look into it for me. A week later I met the MD of the company. We also had a great chat. I outlined how I would like to progress over the next 6 mths and where I want to be then. From the conversation I could see we were both on the same page and this put my mind at ease.

So here I am a few days into my internship. Ok so I did not get salary but I am happy so far. I am working with a great team, I am not the office coffee monkey and I am actually active in the role.

So my advice would be to approach the companies you want to work for and ask them would they be willing to offer you an internship. Have a couple of meetings with them to gauge if they are serious about getting someone in with the possibility of a full time position at the end of the internship or are they looking for free labour. If you are happy then outline and agree a learning path with monthly meetings to access where you are, anything you need to work harder on and what to expect the following month and work hard!!

Lastly remember that this is about gaining experience so if there is no position at the end of your internship(which may be the reality due to any number of reasons) that your experience will stand to you. Many employers in your industry will see the fact you worked unpaid in order to learn and will look at this favourably and it will open doors!!!

Anyways I am here to learn so must get back to work. I will try and pop back in here to update as the months go by.

frAg

Is there much involved in this? in terms of you approaching the company in order to get the internship.
I now qualify for the jobbridge internship and while there are a few positions on the website that interest me, there are some local companies which I would love to try get in the door with but they dont have internships advertised.
I obviously have to do more research on the scheme but its possible for me to go to the companies and try get them to sign up?

irishgrover

just to add my personal view on this.
I recently hired someone who has just completed the job bridge scheme. He was trying (and I guess has now succeeded) to transition into the IT sector from another sector.
Without the experience he gained through Job bridge there is no way in hell I would have interviewed him, never mind hired him.
Now clearly this was not the only criteria that was important in the hiring process. He had many other positive characteristics that added him in my final decision to employ him. However I can categorically state that without the experience he gained through job bridge, he would not currently be working for me.
So it does work....
He did not do job bridge through me, and he knew up front that the company that provided him with the job bridge opportunity would probably not hire him permanently, and this is what happened. However the experience gained did absolutely stand to him.

I guess ultimately it depends on the approach, attitude and commitment of the company that "sponsors" the individual. If they do what they commit to it can really stand to the participant. If they do not, and they misuse the program to get cheap labor then they cheapen the whole program, and are, IMHO, guilty of "stealing" the time of the participant and the money of the state...

Andrew Purfield

irishgrover wrote: »

just to add my personal view on this.
I recently hired someone who has just completed the job bridge scheme. He was trying (and I guess has now succeeded) to transition into the IT sector from another sector.
Without the experience he gained through Job bridge there is no way in hell I would have interviewed him, never mind hired him.
Now clearly this was not the only criteria that was important in the hiring process. He had many other positive characteristics that added him in my final decision to employ him. However I can categorically state that without the experience he gained through job bridge, he would not currently be working for me.
So it does work....
He did not do job bridge through me, and he knew up front that the company that provided him with the job bridge opportunity would probably not hire him permanently, and this is what happened. However the experience gained did absolutely stand to him.

I guess ultimately it depends on the approach, attitude and commitment of the company that "sponsors" the individual. If they do what they commit to it can really stand to the participant. If they do not, and they misuse the program to get cheap labor then they cheapen the whole program, and are, IMHO, guilty of "stealing" the time of the participant and the money of the state...

In Drogheda the vast majority of internships are ordinary everyday jobs that would otherwise have been advertised as part time or full time or seasonal work. I am a casual worker at present and not signed on yet so wouldn't be eligible anyways.

The reality is young graduates earning nothing like myself, living independently and who only qualify for a 100 euro anyways would happily do menial jobs in return for a full time basic wage, and these natural entry level or menial jobs that young people, immigrants and under qualified people typically do are all being replaced by this slave labour scheme, certainly in provincial towns anyways.

Well done to you for not participating in it and fair play for hiring a real worker. Maybe Jobbridge would be better served as a part time scheme ie something for students with a real basic social welfare allowance (208) guaranteed for 20 hours work, the same way people on the CE scheme work. That would lift students out of poverty and mean the rest of the hoors would be forced to hire those of us desperate for a real job.

sligoface

irishgrover wrote: »

just to add my personal view on this.
I recently hired someone who has just completed the job bridge scheme. He was trying (and I guess has now succeeded) to transition into the IT sector from another sector.
Without the experience he gained through Job bridge there is no way in hell I would have interviewed him, never mind hired him.
Now clearly this was not the only criteria that was important in the hiring process. He had many other positive characteristics that added him in my final decision to employ him. However I can categorically state that without the experience he gained through job bridge, he would not currently be working for me.
So it does work....
He did not do job bridge through me, and he knew up front that the company that provided him with the job bridge opportunity would probably not hire him permanently, and this is what happened. However the experience gained did absolutely stand to him.

I guess ultimately it depends on the approach, attitude and commitment of the company that "sponsors" the individual. If they do what they commit to it can really stand to the participant. If they do not, and they misuse the program to get cheap labor then they cheapen the whole program, and are, IMHO, guilty of "stealing" the time of the participant and the money of the state...

Fair play to him and yourself. For most people, working for free for nine months for a company that you know will not take you on just doesn't make sense. If you read the 'Jobbridge Scandal' thread, the horror stories far outnumber the success stories, so I wouldn't say the scheme works just because it worked out for one person.

If you were one of the nearly half million people out of work in this country, looking at job websites every day for ANY kind of job to get off the dole, and seeing positions like cashier, waiter, petrol station attendant, sandwich artist, janitor, etc. being advertised as unpaid internships instead of paid jobs you wouldn't be singing the schemes praises for very long.

If you were a young person between 18-24 who had their dole cut the past two budgets to 100 euro per week or 144 per week for 25 year olds (as if everyone under 26 can still live at home off their parents) you'd see that this government is basically forcing you into working for free just to being your payment up to the normal rate of social welfare, and that if you don't want to be a slave you're only option is to leave the country. And wouldn't that leave a very bad taste in your mouth? Young people in Ireland have been hit hardest by the recession, and the government are using this scheme simply to massage figures, because both Jobbridge interns and emigrants are removed from the live register.

Keep in mind the IT sector is one area that is still employing people in Ireland. In most other sectors, if the host company has no intention of keeping you, you're back to the dole. And most companies do not intend to keep interns, many do not even offer any valuable training or experience, they just use it for free labor. As you said, they are just stealing time and money. It is replacing entry level, menial jobs that require little training and normally would be a paid job. The scheme is not supposed to do that but it is not policed properly and these BS internhips with no real learning involved are allowed to go on for the sake of fiddling figures. Jobbridge is not in any way a solution to the unemployment crisis and since all contributions still come from the DSP, it does not save the country any money.

I think it's great that the someone got a job from your company due to the skills they learned during their internship, but sadly, these stories are the more the exception than the norm. By and large, the scheme is not being implemented properly and is just exploitation.

Andrew Purfield

Good post Sligo. Dead on the doornail. The figures would be at least 1-2% higher possibly and 4-5% higher for youth unemployment(not to mention those of us underemployed who work for a wage that when the hours are toted is less than many people would get on the dole due to having to do the same part time jobs we did 5 years ago cos the economy is in such bad shape-no offence to the few decent local employers(in my case two employers have kept me going every spring and summer since I started college) who provide that lifeline to people, but it is f'n dreadful how little full time work there is especially as people spend 4-5 years in college for nothing!). When you take into account jobbridge, courses and the CE scheme as well as various invisibles like former self employed folks on the supplementary schemes...the real unemployment rate has to be close to 19-20% and the real youth unemployment rate must be far above the oft quoted 20%. Not to mention if other countries suddenly stopped giving our lads visas...

There is a real underlying volatility there masked by some financial engineering in the social welfare dept. I watched a few youtube clips on Britain's privatised workfare and job centre plus agencies and schemes and I've every reason to believe this is just the start of the Thatcher like dismantling of the welfare state, particularly as all the McCreevy heads are partying like its' 1987 with calls for income tax cuts and meanwhile further calls for 'labour market reforms' which is newspeak for further welfare cuts and punitive measures against the general poor and vulnerable as Charlie type tax cuts for the hardpressed mé féiners of Ireland have to be funded somehow. This country is split between haves and have nots. 900'000 workers would not even see anything from tax cuts as they are either temp workers/seasonal or too poor to even pay PRSI/income tax and a USC cut would be pittance. And from my own experience the only other type of jobs apart from seasonal and part time are temp clerical ones-remember every 3-4 week job is a 'created' job!