What is happening to young people in the UK?

Richard Hillman

In the UK they have community workers in skanger areas instilling a "me against the world attitude" to the kids. They try to make the police, politicians and employers out to be the bad guy, whilst Mr Community Worker is the good guy because he's "the only one that cares". We will have similar problems here if the likes of that wierdo Richard Boyd-Barrett keeps spouting his crap and instills an even bigger entitlement culture and his attempts to create a class war.

Chuck Stone

When I were a lad you could leave the whole front wall off your house and nobody would steal nowt.

We didn't 'av much brown sauce back then but we got by by gum.

DublinWriter

MrThrifty wrote: »

Some other issues relate to poor parenting whereby couples adopt the attitude 'sure we'll pick it up as we go along'

I'll let you into a little secret...that's generally how it's done!

...or maybe there's an MSc\MA in Parenting these days?

Snowie

shoot all human right activists then sort the kids out!

Fratton Fred

ICANN wrote: »

No, not most deprived in the UK- most deprived in the borough. Big difference there. I also stated that my school has half of its intake from the wealthiest part of the borough. I've also taught in other parts of the UK including Hertfordshire, Kent and Manchester. As well as this I have lots of friends (English, Irish, Canadian and Australian) all over England who have the same experiences of behaviour.

It taught for a year before I left home in Cork City and the difference in behaviour and attitudes is crazy!

You've obviously been unlucky then, because I know a lot of people who have no problems with the schools in their boroughs.

I sympathise with teachers today, the bleeding heart liberals have taken away a lot of the punishments available which has lead to them becoming a lot less "Scary" to pupils, but your accounts of teaching in the uk make the place sound like Beirut on a bad day, which in the main it isn't.

Fratton Fred

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In the UK they have community workers in skanger areas instilling a "me against the world attitude" to the kids. They try to make the police, politicians and employers out to be the bad guy, whilst Mr Community Worker is the good guy because he's "the only one that cares". We will have similar problems here if the likes of that wierdo Richard Boyd-Barrett keeps spouting his crap and instills an even bigger entitlement culture and his attempts to create a class war.

There is actually a lot of sense in this.

I saw leftie do gooder social workers running around Slough in the 80s telling the young kids there what a nasty imperial country is, you're not English, you don't want to be English, embrace your Pakistani muslim roots. They then encouraged these kids not to speak English and made sure that every public document was translated into 20 different languages, as a way of showing how welcoming and PC they were.

20 years later they are wondering why these kids are walking onto tube trains with a rucksack full of explosives.

I don't advocate gas chambers for these kids, but they do have to be shown the way society works and be encouraged to be part of it, not constantly fighting it.

hooradiation

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There is actually a lot of sense in this.

I saw leftie do gooder social workers running around Slough in the 80s telling the young kids there what a nasty imperial country is, you're not English, you don't want to be English, embrace your Pakistani muslim roots. They then encouraged these kids not to speak English and made sure that every public document was translated into 20 different languages, as a way of showing how welcoming and PC they were.

20 years later they are wondering why these kids are walking onto tube trains with a rucksack full of explosives.

Yes, this amazing simplistic anecdote explains perfectly how the four men involved with the London tube bombing did what they did.
Bravo.

Fratton Fred

hooradiation wrote: »

Yes, this amazing simplistic anecdote explains perfectly how the four men involved with the London tube bombing did what they did.
Bravo.

There is a lot more to it, but the softly softly politically correct approach towards integration acted had completely the opposite affect to the one expected.

Logical Fallacy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I sympathise with teachers today, the bleeding heart liberals have taken away a lot of the punishments available which has lead to them becoming a lot less "Scary" to pupils,

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I saw leftie do gooder social workers running around Slough in the 80s telling the young kids there what a nasty imperial country is, you're not English, you don't want to be English, embrace your Pakistani muslim roots.

You're on a roll Fred.

Up next, PC Brigade.

Fratton Fred

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

You're on a roll Fred.

Up next, PC Brigade.

I'm after my own slot on the George Hook show!

Haelium

Plato worried about the corruption of the youth in his time. This is nothing new, crime has always existed, and so have psychopaths. But by all means, go crazy and blame it on lack of discipline.


As for England, the increase in crime is down to simple urbanization and mass immigration.

desertcircus

Haelium wrote: »

Plato worried about the corruption of the youth in his time. This is nothing new, crime has always existed, and so have psychopaths. But by all means, go crazy and blame it on lack of discipline.


As for England, the increase in crime is down to simple urbanization and mass immigration.

What increase in crime? This thread is filled with people falling over each other to ascribe a cause to something which doean't appear to exist. Does anyone actually have concrete evidence that crime is rising?

hooradiation

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There is a lot more to it, but the softly softly politically correct approach towards integration acted had completely the opposite affect to the one expected.

I think it'd be fairer to say you are talking out of your arse when it comes to laying the causes for a tragic event at the feet of "leftie do gooder" and that perennial demon political correctness.

Haelium

desertcircus wrote: »

What increase in crime? This thread is filled with people falling over each other to ascribe a cause to something which doean't appear to exist. Does anyone actually have concrete evidence that crime is rising?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/29/gang-violence-rises-as-councils-cut-youth-services

According to the Guardian there is a rise in knife crime.

Dudess

"You know what I blame this on the breakdown of? Society!"

Ontological Epistemologist

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There is a lot more to it, but the softly softly politically correct approach towards integration acted had completely the opposite affect to the one expected.

To integrate is to ignite? To bring together is to tear apart? How?

Ally Dick

Enoch Powell's Rivers Of Blood speech was right. Oldham has had more immigrants than most areas. Plenty of hoodies around

questionmark?

No discipline, every thing is nicey nicey.

In urban areas kids have nothing to be proud of in there area. Its this street against that street, instead of a community spirit.

I have been told by a teaching assistant I know over here that they dont have punishment for the kids but rather a chill out zone where they write down what they feel they have done wrong. Ah its called detention and a 200 lines!!!

The PC bull**** over here is so feckn annoying.

On the whole the UK is a nice place but it is been ruined by bleeding heart liberals who are afraid of been seen as discriminating against one area or group of people.

amacca

ICANN wrote: »

Yeah I was shocked when I first moved over. The worst classes in Irish schools are an average class here. It's rare for students to be expelled from schools- last week one of the (female) teachers was punched in the face by a 16 year old and the schools response was sign him up for gardening therapy (yeah they have horticultural therapy in my school....) and a year seven (11 years old) told the dinner lady to 'hurry the **** up and give me my lunch cos I'm starving'- he got a detention that he never turned up to!

ridiculous state of affairs...talk about the tail wagging the dog...what teacher would bother making an effort outside of the bare minimum in a system like that...

I'm not advocating a return to corporal punishment....just no pandering/rehabilitation etc......if they misbehave in a big way like that then the fcuk right off and if that causes them to become a criminal then punish punish punish them properly.................if they were properly disciplined from the start there wouldn't be such a big problem.

justice systems seem to have this rehabilitation ideal at their core which does not seem to work for the truly hard-core ..... with violent offenders or re-offenders there should be no quarter given and it should be carried out with as little expense to the taxpayer as possible......no luxuries, hard hard backbreaking work....that would give them something to think about other than who their next victim should be.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

V_Moth

This news programme from a couple of years ago gives an interesting perspective on the problems highlighted in the OP. Well worth watching.

NSFW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bhn7zxwY5w

cooperguy

Before people start saying how terrible kids are these days read this: http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0?fsrc=rss

It was written just after the riots and puts things in a bit of perspective. I really hate the "it was never like that in my day" attitude

DublinWriter

cooperguy wrote: »

It was written just after the riots and puts things in a bit of perspective. I really hate the "it was never like that in my day" attitude

I remember a British paper recently reprinting an article that stated how the youth of today were going out of control and wrecking London due to a lack of parental supervision and that thuggery and violence were rampant.

The sting was the article was originally printed in 1916 and the lack of fathers being present was down to men getting conscripted into the army.

Plus ca change....etc.

relax carry on

I lived in London for a few years. Managed to be held up a gun point by a 13 or 14 year old kid who kept pointing his gun at my knee saying he wad going to shoot. He then spent two minutes pointing his gun at me gangster style as I walked away making shooting motions. Got beaten up on a tube by 3 kids ranging from about 12 to 15. Only survived that by my wife pulling the emergency cord before the largest one standing over me, managed to finish pulling whatever weapon he had, out of his pocket. They got their hoodies up and ran for it.
Witnessed a riot by a group of about 30 teenagers right outside our house. We lived in an affluent part of the city but like every other part, it had run down areas bordering it.

All the above might have skewed my understanding of youth issues in the UK but all I can say is it appears that children do not appear to fear any consequences of their actions. If there are no consequences to your actions then why wouldn't you do whatever you wanted?

dj jarvis

cooperguy wrote: »

Before people start saying how terrible kids are these days read this: http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0?fsrc=rss

It was written just after the riots and puts things in a bit of perspective. I really hate the "it was never like that in my day" attitude

but it was not like that when i was a teenager - i was 14 in the early 80's in a working class area of Dublin - and trust me it was rough - but NOTHING like Ireland now

don't know what age you are, but i do remember a Dublin ( and i know this is the biggest yarn but its true ) where the old were not touched , keys were left in doors , i knew my neighbors , the streets we a lot less intimidating

this just does not happen anymore

i rarely heard when i was growing up of story's of women getting attacked in their homes and being mutilated - stabbed and fingers being cut off , tortured - i see and read about them so often now its worrying

i know it could be seen as reminiscing for a older time, but it does not change the fact that in Ireland 30 years ago it was a much safe place for family's - it has changed for the worse in my opinion

vampire of kilmainham

one word drugs they are all stoned out of their noggins thats all

cooperguy

I would argue that you hear about more of that happening because there are more news agencies and more access to news from the world over. After all, lets not forget there have been shocking scandals uncovered about the previous decades. It was far from pretty then aswell. There will always be bad people.

The article I posted gives specific examples going right back to 1751 where articles were written about how the world is suddenly a much worse place. It makes for interesting reading.

oppenheimer1

acidskiffle wrote: »

Some people are just born bad eggs I think.

I disagree. These instances all seem to be happening in the same location and the same communities. There has been a major breakdown in the family and ghettoisation of large parts of the UK's cities. There doesn't seem to be a sense of belonging or civic pride in these yoofs. Why is that?

I believe its down to the abandonment of fathers of their duties to their children and the destruction of the institution of marriage. It also doesn't he;lp that the UK's society is highly stratified with a true silver spooned privileged elite running the country. I really do not think that David "Call me Dave" Cameron really understands what its like to grow up on a sink estate.

One thing that we can be thankful for is that our little state is far more egalitarian than the UK.

K-9

Seems people brought up with manners and respect lose out.

Latchy

Long before the London /Manchester riots ,people up and down the length and breath of UK were screaming out for tougher sentences for crimes. When it came to youth crime , some police forces acted upon and the anti-social mobile crime unit was formed which was quite successful in dealing with and breaking up gangs of youths who were responsible for continuous anti-social behaviour by making their presense felt and arresting anybody on the spot who were behaving in a manner deemed to be a threat to the neighbourhoods they hung around in .

Now with the recent cuts backs to public services, this becomes part of the cull and thousends of police jobs in areas such as Merseyside and Manchester including other forces right across all the uk will be lost

It was only after the riots that David Cameron announced the get tough measures to deal with the rioters which chief of Manchester police describing the London police as 'pussyfooting ' around with their softly softly approach in dealing with the rioters when any other European force would have took a much tougher approach .Of course it was their London political masters who where calling the shots .

As for the young people of UK and taking the example above as in the OP's link , there was always that type of youth around since the days of Fagin and co in 19th century London except back then it would have been gruel and not chicken curry they would have been eating in gaol ,but that was then .

As for the feral youths virtually running amock during the riots ,a recent survey resulted in the opinion that a large % of these youths come from either a one parent family with no father figure in their lives at any time or in some cases no parents at all , which opens the door to been led astray and becoming part of gangs were they get their sense of belonging .Of course we are takling about a % of young people in the UK who took part in the rioting and out looking for '' someting for nothing ' but people now don't just say it 'might happen again '' ...it's more a case of '' it will happen again '' .

Lessons will have been learned by all sides and education and training for young people are piorities ,with money and measures already been put in place for thousends of youth apprenticeships but with regard to youth crime, the softly softly approach by authorities and police needs to be looked at .There also needs to be much tougher sentences by courts to ,which is what people have been screaming out for for years now

.

moco

relax carry on wrote: »

I lived in London for a few years. Managed to be held up a gun point by a 13 or 14 year old kid who kept pointing his gun at my knee saying he wad going to shoot. He then spent two minutes pointing his gun at me gangster style as I walked away making shooting motions. Got beaten up on a tube by 3 kids ranging from about 12 to 15. Only survived that by my wife pulling the emergency cord before the largest one standing over me, managed to finish pulling whatever weapon he had, out of his pocket. They got their hoodies up and ran for it.
Witnessed a riot by a group of about 30 teenagers right outside our house. We lived in an affluent part of the city but like every other part, it had run down areas bordering it.

All the above might have skewed my understanding of youth issues in the UK but all I can say is it appears that children do not appear to fear any consequences of their actions. If there are no consequences to your actions then why wouldn't you do whatever you wanted?

Jesus you were really unlucky, what part of London did all this happen in? I've been here 8 years and luckily have never witnessed anything like this, apart from the riots this summer.

Fratton Fred

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I disagree. These instances all seem to be happening in the same location and the same communities. There has been a major breakdown in the family and ghettoisation of large parts of the UK's cities. There doesn't seem to be a sense of belonging or civic pride in these yoofs. Why is that?

I believe its down to the abandonment of fathers of their duties to their children and the destruction of the institution of marriage. It also doesn't he;lp that the UK's society is highly stratified with a true silver spooned privileged elite running the country. I really do not think that David "Call me Dave" Cameron really understands what its like to grow up on a sink estate.

One thing that we can be thankful for is that our little state is far more egalitarian than the UK.

You've obviously never been to Jobstown.

kupus

Why is there a problem?

I'll give you the reason in one word and its very simple

LIBERALS.

duiggers

Lack of parenting and large rundown council estates are the major causes for all the anti-social behaviour

hooradiation

kupus wrote: »

Why is there a problem?

I'll give you the reason in one word and its very simple

LIBERALS.

Distilling complex social problems into a single word is apparently a thing people do and still expect to be taken seriously.
Who knew?

missvirgo

Foxhound38 wrote: »

what is happening or has happened in the UK to bring this out in their youth?



Are we headed down the same path in Ireland?



How do we stop it from happening here?

-neglect caused by addiction caused by poverty caused by government policies caused by the bilderberg group


-Yes, without a shadow of a doubt

-We can't

It's sad & depressing but that's my honest opinion

LordSutch

I don't think you can talk about the young people of the UK without specifying which Part/City/Region of the UK you are talking about. Obviously there are 'youth' problems in large Cities like London, Manchester, Belfast, Liverpool & Glasgow, but then you have Cities like Edinburgh & Bath which seem to have a much more crime free vibe about them, rural areas are also very regional in their crime figures, so yes, some parts of the UK have serious problems with youth violence & anti social behaviour, but then other parts are not too bad at all . . .

Logical Fallacy

kupus wrote: »

Why is there a problem?

I'll give you the reason in one word and its very simple

LIBERALS.

I still have yet to have someone adequately explain why "liberal" is a bad thing.

And don't get me wrong, i personally advocate Tyranny.

marcsignal

Selena Broad Fortune-teller wrote: »

It already is. Sure those young lads will probably spend 2 years getting well fed, playing playstation and being provided with the best tracksuits money can buy before being released to reoffend..... And people wonder why the prison system doesn't work....

+1

I think, for their own safety, we should put the pensioners in jail, and the criminals in a nursing home. This way the pensioners would have access to showers, hobbies and walks. They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out. They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance. Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them. A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell.
They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose. They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counselling, pool and education. Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request. Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens. Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls. There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.


The criminals would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised. Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room and pay €600.00 per week and have no hope of ever getting out.

works for me

HavingCrack

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I really do not think that David "Call me Dave" Cameron really understands what its like to grow up on a sink estate.

And Enda Kenny and Eamonn Gilmore do? Hmmmmmm

Icyseanfitz

i feel safer wandering around central london than i do going for a walk around tralee, that should say something about the state ireland is in, as for why young people are acting like idiots, its a combination of being uneducated, a lack of drive to better themselves, crappy parenting, and a complete lack of respect for anything but themselves

Ulysses Gaze

I really do not think that David "Call me Dave" Cameron really understands what its like to grow up on a sink estate.

...but Blair and Miliband do?

Labour's 'Something for Nothing' policy is partly to blame for the situation in the UK now.

ShadowHearth

Isn't this nanny state and children right bull**** out of control?

I did some bull**** in my day. My father would come over with his belt and slap the living bejesus out of my arse. I would know that I won't do that next time if I want to be able to sit down and eat my dinner.
These days you can't even touch your own children!

I know a single mother who is breaking her arse to make a living. Working full time and trying to give everything to her son. I so him stealing 300eu from here and lie like little rat about it.
Once she went to work and he was suppose to go to school. She had to come back home after 2 hours home and found him at home playing computer games... She got so pissed of him so she slapped him. He looked at here and warned her, if she will do it again, he will go and tell his teacher and child rights group... Ungrateful 10 year little ****. My father would have killed for such tricks.
So wtf we expect? They grow with no authority and no restrictions. All they get is a slap on the wrists for all bull****.

Herb Powell

relax carry on wrote: »

I lived in London for a few years. Managed to be held up a gun point by a 13 or 14 year old kid who kept pointing his gun at my knee saying he wad going to shoot. He then spent two minutes pointing his gun at me gangster style as I walked away making shooting motions. Got beaten up on a tube by 3 kids ranging from about 12 to 15. Only survived that by my wife pulling the emergency cord before the largest one standing over me, managed to finish pulling whatever weapon he had, out of his pocket. They got their hoodies up and ran for it.
Witnessed a riot by a group of about 30 teenagers right outside our house. We lived in an affluent part of the city but like every other part, it had run down areas bordering it.

All the above might have skewed my understanding of youth issues in the UK but all I can say is it appears that children do not appear to fear any consequences of their actions. If there are no consequences to your actions then why wouldn't you do whatever you wanted?

Seriously? Not that I don't believe you were attacked, but seriously?

dj jarvis wrote: »

i rarely heard when i was growing up of story's of women getting attacked in their homes and being mutilated - stabbed and fingers being cut off , tortured - i see and read about them so often now its worrying

Yeah I only heard about that happening once......

relax carry on

Herb Powell wrote: »

relax carry on wrote: »

I lived in London for a few years. Managed to be held up a gun point by a 13 or 14 year old kid who kept pointing his gun at my knee saying he wad going to shoot. He then spent two minutes pointing his gun at me gangster style as I walked away making shooting motions. Got beaten up on a tube by 3 kids ranging from about 12 to 15. Only survived that by my wife pulling the emergency cord before the largest one standing over me, managed to finish pulling whatever weapon he had, out of his pocket. They got their hoodies up and ran for it.
Witnessed a riot by a group of about 30 teenagers right outside our house. We lived in an affluent part of the city but like every other part, it had run down areas bordering it.

All the above might have skewed my understanding of youth issues in the UK but all I can say is it appears that children do not appear to fear any consequences of their actions. If there are no consequences to your actions then why wouldn't you do whatever you wanted?

Seriously? Not that I don't believe you were attacked, but seriously?

dj jarvis wrote: »

Yeah. They were big for the age. Got the info from the police as they had an idea who they were. (not that anything ever happened out of it)
Coming home from a night out all relaxed on the tube. Got pushed over a seat and smacked my forehead off a sharp bit of a window pane (was an old tube) Still have the scar. That pretty much did it for me as it took the strength out of me. I couldn't defend myself then. It's not a nice sight to see a kid standing over you reaching into his pocket for a weapon you know is there. Being an adult is no protection from children who are prepared to do anything to you.

oppenheimer1

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

...but Blair and Miliband do?

Labour's 'Something for Nothing' policy is partly to blame for the situation in the UK now.

I never said Labour do. Labour and the Tories are two cheeks of the same arse.

A huge chunk of political elite in the UK follow the same path, Eton and Oxbridge. They are bred to rule the country.

Cameron is hardly the everyman

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jc5ApKflWZo/TVg7U9YEP2I/AAAAAAAAAAc/Qd_hIjPN8u4/s400/cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg

drdeadlift

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Isn't this nanny state and children right bull**** out of control?

I did some bull**** in my day. My father would come over with his belt and slap the living bejesus out of my arse. I would know that I won't do that next time if I want to be able to sit down and eat my dinner.
These days you can't even touch your own children!

I know a single mother who is breaking her arse to make a living. Working full time and trying to give everything to her son. I so him stealing 300eu from here and lie like little rat about it.
Once she went to work and he was suppose to go to school. She had to come back home after 2 hours home and found him at home playing computer games... She got so pissed of him so she slapped him. He looked at here and warned her, if she will do it again, he will go and tell his teacher and child rights group... Ungrateful 10 year little ****. My father would have killed for such tricks.
So wtf we expect? They grow with no authority and no restrictions. All they get is a slap on the wrists for all bull****.

nail on the head,why should they give a toss when there are very few repercussions..Do adults in Ireland have to take abuse from under ager little fckers

Dudess

Can't see what's... "liberal" (derp) about advocating treatment of the cause rather than just symptom. Punishments are of course deserved but they alone don't actually make the problem go away.

K-9

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I never said Labour do. Labour and the Tories are two cheeks of the same arse.

A huge chunk of political elite in the UK follow the same path, Eton and Oxbridge. They are bred to rule the country.

Cameron is hardly the everyman

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jc5ApKflWZo/TVg7U9YEP2I/AAAAAAAAAAc/Qd_hIjPN8u4/s400/cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg

Add Clegg.
Very like the three parties here. A Prescott or Heseltine just aren't palatable and camera friendly.

brigids

Ellis Dee wrote: »

As the veteran Portlaoise politician Joe "the Hesh" McCormack once famously said: "It's not the parents I blame. It's the mothers and fathers.";);)