Ex tormenting sons while in his care

Soccer Mom

Hi all, I'm just hoping for a little advice on an issue that is breaking my heart. Myself and my ex have a very turbulent past which I had enough of and ended the marriage. He is extremely bitter over it, and despite being in a relationship with another woman who is now pregnant for him, he often asks me to take him back. We have two sons for which he has weekend access every fortnight (he chose the frequency), but every time they're in his care he drinks and badgers my sons with questions about me and my current partner. The needling and nastiness normally comes about when he drinks (every night over the weekend) and he punishes them if they are reluctant to answer his questions, because they know they will be punished or he will get nasty. Every time I drop them off I'm literally pulling my hair out over what he's saying to them.

I have a safety order preventing him from mentally or physically abusing me or my sons. From what the boys tell me, he isn't hitting them, but he's tormenting them. He took my son's phone off him over the weekend and called me a whore in front of them, and is filling their heads with lies about me. He had my eldest son crying on Friday night, and on Saturday night my youngest lad cried bitter little tears because he said 'I don't know' when asked who he preferred - him or my partner.


My heart is shattered for my two sons, but there is an access order in place. I really don't want to send my son's to him for another weekend of absolute hell. He's a nut job and I'm so scared for them.

I'm not asking for legal advice of any sort here, just some experience from other boards posters. I'm tearing my hair out over it, and I can't stop crying. Every father has a right to see their kids, but my ex is using them as pawns and mentally torturing them. I'm heart broken and frustrated for them.


Any guidance or experience would be very much appreciated guys

January

Put the safety order in play. A quick call to the Gardai will tell you what you need to do. The boys will have to be willing to tell the Garda what their father is saying/doing.

Soccer Mom

January wrote: »

Put the safety order in play. A quick call to the Gardai will tell you what you need to do. The boys will have to be willing to tell the Garda what their father is saying/doing.

Thanks for your reply January. I did do this over the weekend, when the garda asked my son if he was okay, he said yes. He felt intimidated by the situation and thought he would get in trouble

I've told him since he has to be straight up with the gardai and that I can only help him if he speaks up. They are afraid of their Dad when he's being nasty with them

LadyMayBelle

As above. If you cannot tolerate the fact your two boys are clearly going thru hell with this man, please act on it and protect them, asap. The longer you leave it the more damage will be done. For their sake.

Only then you can look at ways of working together, and setting down ground rules like 'no asking questions about the other parent/using the kids'.

Can you get someone to talk to your son, like a social worker or someone in school, can he write dow how he feels? He is afraid of trouble and that is understandable. You cannot put your sons through that every weekend, and you being the primay caregiver are the best person to act.

Good luck

Soccer Mom

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

As above. If you cannot tolerate the fact your two boys are clearly going thru hell with this man, please act on it and protect them, asap. The longer you leave it the more damage will be done. For their sake.

Only then you can look at ways of working together, and setting down ground rules like 'no asking questions about the other parent/using the kids'.

Can you get someone to talk to your son, like a social worker or someone in school, can he write dow how he feels? He is afraid of trouble and that is understandable. You cannot put your sons through that every weekend, and you being the primay caregiver are the best person to act.

Good luck

Thank you so much for your reply, you've no idea how frustrated and heartbroken I am over this. I can't understand why he can't just be a father to these kids and enjoy his time with them. He is evil beyond words to put them through this

I can't thank you enough for the suggestion of the social worker, I do actually know of one. Can't believe I didn't think of this myself, that goes to show how all over the place my head is.

I'll look into this today, many thanks LB.

bullpost

I'm surprised that its a Garda asking your sons these questions as I thought it would be someone more qualified to assess the answers . I appreciate that the Garda needs to be present but would not have thought they'd have the final say.

Soccer Mom wrote: »

Thanks for your reply January. I did do this over the weekend, when the garda asked my son if he was okay, he said yes. He felt intimidated by the situation and thought he would get in trouble

I've told him since he has to be straight up with the gardai and that I can only help him if he speaks up. They are afraid of their Dad when he's being nasty with them

Soccer Mom

bullpost wrote: »

I'm surprised that its a Garda asking your sons these questions as I thought it would be someone more qualified to assess the answers . I appreciate that the Garda needs to be present but would not have thought they'd have the final say.

I was talking to my mother about this this morning actually, and she was surprised it was a garda handling it herself.


The worst part about it was, the garda treated it like it was a domestic and was quite dismissive about it. My ex obviously turned on the Mr Nice guy bit for them, and no sooner were they out the door her was screaming 'whore' down the phone at me in front of my sons. The last time they stayed with him, my son sent me a text saying 'hes asking me questions again' and this was at nearly 2am!

I can't sit here knowing they're being tormented

LadyMayBelle

If you are concerned your children are being mentally and emotionally abused then it is a child protection concern, even if it is your ex. Ring social services even for a chat with the duty social worker and tell her what you are worried about and explain how difficult a sitatuon it is. Ideally one of them who is trained in talkig to children should come out. You just need to be gentle with your son and acknowldge that he feels really scared and that is okay, that he is worried he is going to get into trouble and he is going to get someone else into trouble, but it is okay to feel scared and you are going to support him and listen to him because no body deserves to be treated like that. You'll be giving him the confidence and security he needs to speak up.

Payton

Hi op, it can't be easy for you or your kids, but you have made the right move in what you have done with the court order.
Your kids don't seem to have a life with him when they are in his care and if it takes the guards to step in well then its his loss. Your kids will come to accept what was going on and in time they'll understand. There are fathers out there who would do anything to be in your ex's position regarding custody.
Don't beat yourself up over it, you have done nothing wrong. It's his loss. And he needs to address HIS issues both with you and his kids before he's allowed near them again, and call himself a father...instead of a bully.

LadyMayBelle

Your kids will thank you for this in the future; protecting your children is the right thing to do. Mind yourself as well and meet with a friends for some support, it is not easy x

Soccer Mom

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

If you are concerned your children are being mentally and emotionally abused then it is a child protection concern, even if it is your ex. Ring social services even for a chat with the duty social worker and tell her what you are worried about and explain how difficult a sitatuon it is. Ideally one of them who is trained in talkig to children should come out. You just need to be gentle with your son and acknowldge that he feels really scared and that is okay, that he is worried he is going to get into trouble and he is going to get someone else into trouble, but it is okay to feel scared and you are going to support him and listen to him because no body deserves to be treated like that. You'll be giving him the confidence and security he needs to speak up.

Thanks LB. I've just been in contact with the social worker tomorrow, he's going to try squeeze me in tomorrow.

on the verge wrote: »

Hi op, it can't be easy for you or your kids, but you have made the right move in what you have done with the court order.
Your kids don't seem to have a life with him when they are in his care and if it takes the guards to step in well then its his loss. Your kids will come to accept what was going on and in time they'll understand. There are fathers out there who would do anything to be in your ex's position regarding custody.
Don't beat yourself up over it, you have done nothing wrong. It's his loss. And he needs to address HIS issues both with you and his kids before he's allowed near them again, and call himself a father...instead of a bully.

Although we were 'split up' but still living under the same roof for a good while, I threw him out November of last year. He's still not getting it that I want nothing to do with him. "you'll never love him like you love me" kind of crap I hear very often between abuse, and he damaged my partners car. several of my neighbours seen him do this, but the gardai told me that one of them would have to go to court to give evidence. I couldnt do that to my neighbours, and no doubt they'd be the next target on his list.

The guy is screw ball with a drink and anger problem. This is what has my kids every fortnight

Soccer Mom

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

Your kids will thank you for this in the future; protecting your children is the right thing to do. Mind yourself as well and meet with a friends for some support, it is not easy x

Appreciate your kind words LB, really means a lot. just being able to talk here alone is giving me some kind of comfort and some strength to fight my kids corner.


I know he's going to attempt to blacken my character as a mother. It goes to show how selfish and screwy he really he is, he'll do anything to get at me - even if it means putting enough doubt in the social workers minds to have my kids taken into care. This situation is scaring me silly, he's dangerous in every sense of the word.

Big Bag of Chips

Did the guards go to your ex's house and question the kids in front of him? That sounds ridiculous, but I suppose if you contacted them at a time they were in his house then they had to act on it. If they didn't we'd all be complaining that they did nothing.

What you should do, because there's a safety order in place, is bring it to the garda station with your sons. And tell them the garda is going to ask them some questions and they don't need to be afraid to tell the truth. Try not to put words in their mouth or influence them in anyway. Just let them answer questions in their own way.

Maybe ring the station first and make an appointment to meet with someone who handles children's issues.

Also if he's ringing you and abusing you, then he is in breach of his safety order against you.. so you should also make your own complaint.

You have a safety order for a reason, by letting him away with his treatment of you, you are letting him know he can do what he likes and you'll do nothing about it. Sure why would he stop?

Payton

The guards are great in a situation like yours, they'll take no sh1t from him especially where kids are involved.
He sounds like a nasty piece of work. Start a diary and record everything, phone calls, texts, letters.
Your a brave woman so don't let him get to you. If anything feel sorry for his current partner who has to put up with him.
Work on helping your kids through this, don't use it as a tool to beat yourself with. Learn from it. Remember its his loss and your kids gain. Maybe in time he'll cop on and realise what he has lost...
Stay strong.

Soccer Mom

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Did the guards go to your ex's house and question the kids in front of him? That sounds ridiculous, but I suppose if you contacted them at a time they were in his house then they had to act on it. If they didn't we'd all be complaining that they did nothing.

I was scared out of my wits when the garda came back with 'theres nothing I can do'. Because the second the door was closed behind them he kicked off again, screaming abuse down the phone at me while my son cried. When the garda told me the situation, I rang my son to confirm he was okay, and anything like the abuse I got. I rang the garda back in a panic explaining he was crying again, and I was going mad with worry. He told me that his job was to check it out, he was satisfied my sons were safe and he actually had the audacity to tell me I shouldn't be ringing my son at 11pm at night!! I was going insane in my head knowing he got away with what he was doing to them, and was still doing when I rang to check on my son.

I've never felt so helpless in all of my life

What you should do, because there's a safety order in place, is bring it to the garda station with your sons. And tell them the garda is going to ask them some questions and they don't need to be afraid to tell the truth. Try not to put words in their mouth or influence them in anyway. Just let them answer questions in their own way.

Maybe ring the station first and make an appointment to meet with someone who handles children's issues.

Also if he's ringing you and abusing you, then he is in breach of his safety order against you.. so you should also make your own complaint.

You have a safety order for a reason, by letting him away with his treatment of you, you are letting him know he can do what he likes and you'll do nothing about it. Sure why would he stop?

You know, I was just thinking this. I will ring them up and see if someone will have a chat with them. I've a feeling though that they will tell me to see a social worker though. I've made an appointment with one, and he's coming to my home to see them tomorrow after school.

on the verge wrote: »

The guards are great in a situation like yours, they'll take no sh1t from him especially where kids are involved.
He sounds like a nasty piece of work. Start a diary and record everything, phone calls, texts, letters.
Your a brave woman so don't let him get to you. If anything feel sorry for his current partner who has to put up with him.
Work on helping your kids through this, don't use it as a tool to beat yourself with. Learn from it. Remember its his loss and your kids gain. Maybe in time he'll cop on and realise what he has lost...
Stay strong.

He's cuter than to have any abuse in print. One time a garda told me to record all of this abuse on a dictaphone, and some of the stuff was horrific - including him telling me his niece was going to 'get me' and 'mark my words, you'll be got' kind of crap. When I brought this to a solicitor she told me that she wouldn't be using it in court (this was when I got my safety order) in case the court thought I was 'tricking' him into saying this stuff. There was hundreds of calls, and the time and effort I went to documenting it all went just like that. The word 'frustrated' doesn't come close to how I feel. Everything just seems to be swinging in his direction, while I'm left to pick up the pieces with my sons after their weekend from hell.

I'm going to work on having his access rights revoked until such a time where he's had enough counseling to both sort out his obsession with me, drink, anger management and to try to get him to understand that kids shouldn't be dragged through all this!

If I don't have something sorted out by their next visit, I'm just not handing them over to him. I can't expect them to go through that again, and I know I'll be crying over it the whole weekend. I've no idea if I will get in trouble for not handing them over, but my heart and head can't take the stress or worry for my boys any longer.

Payton

By all means use every tool you can to revoke his access rights. The courts will take a very dim view on his behavior, and if there are garda and social workers reports to back up everything it might just hit home with him but I doubt it.
Maybe contact women's aid for some advice and they might be able to steer you in the right direction.

Soccer Mom

on the verge wrote: »

By all means use every tool you can to revoke his access rights. The courts will take a very dim view on his behavior, and if there are garda and social workers reports to back up everything it might just hit home with him but I doubt it.

Well hopefully my eldest boy will speak out when the social worker comes tomorrow. I can't believe I've to do this.

Maybe contact women's aid for some advice and they might be able to steer you in the right direction.

Thats not a bad idea either, I'll do that, thanks

Payton

"I cant beleive I have to do this" You have to do it, for your kids and yourself.
I think your blaming yourself a lot but you've done nothing wrong, remember its his problem....not yours.
Nobody should have to put up with that sort of treatment, especially not kids. You will come through this a better and stronger person.

Big Bag of Chips

If there's an access order in place you COULD get in trouble for not making the children available to him.

(edit: he could go to the guards with his access order and the guards could force you to hand the children over to him)

What you need to do is apply for a variance on the access order through the court. You could apply for supervised access. I think, but am open to correction, that once you apply for a variance, that only then can the current access arrangement be "put on hold". If you stop access without applying for a variance it can go against you.

Get advice from the court clerks (who know more than I do!), the social worker and the guards. The more information you have, the better armed you will be to fight him.

Morag

If he does not have court ordered visitation then stop it and tell him to go through the courts. Let him make a case before a judge with you there to refute him and with an active safety order in place.

If he does have court ordered visitation then go back to the courts and get the safety order invoked.

This is not your fault, yes it's shítty you have to do this but it is his failing not yours and you are looking out for your children.

rambutman

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If there's an access order in place you COULD get in trouble for not making the children available to him.

(edit: he could go to the guards with his access order and the guards could force you to hand the children over to him)

What you need to do is apply for a variance on the access order through the court. You could apply for supervised access. I think, but am open to correction, that once you apply for a variance, that only then can the current access arrangement be "put on hold". If you stop access without applying for a variance it can go against you.

Get advice from the court clerks (who know more than I do!), the social worker and the guards. The more information you have, the better armed you will be to fight him.

This sounds to me like the most sensible route. I've been down a road pretty similar to this, except the kids were with the mother full time. All the good wishes and "it'll all be OK in the end" whilst well-meaning don't mean a fiddlers to you right now, as you'll be at your wits end when the kids are with him. I read the first few posts and skimmed through the rest - didn't pick up (although you might not have wanted to say or I might have missed it) what age your boys are. One thing that stuck out in your post (apart from the abuse), is the fact that he's spending his weekend with them continuously drinking/drunk - who else is there at the time? Is he supervising the kids on his own - if he's doing it and drinking you sound to me like you'd have good grounds for supervised access.

Daisy M

Hi soccermom, firstly I am sorry for what you and your sons are going through its really unfair.
Just to add it may be worth making a visit with a childrens psycologist for your sons. It will probably take a few visits in order for a complete assessment to be carried out, and you may have to go privately. However these independant reports can carry some weight in court, and it is the courts job to act in the best interests of the children.
Best of luck I hope it gets sorted soon.

Soccer Mom

This just gets worse and worse. I found out from my eldest son that my ex held him down on his bed and punched him several times in the body. He also threatened them not to tell me about it. I can't believe it's taken my son so long to tell me this, he must be so scared

I've just been to the garda station again bringing my safety order with me. I've discovered the kids aren't actually mentioned on it, but I do know on the day the judge asked me if I'd like them to be covered, to which I agreed strongly to. Maybe I'm missing a bit of extra paper work or something. So the route the gardai are taking now is assault on my son. They're going to question him / both of them this week. I can't believe the process is so slow considering it's to do with the welfare of children. I'll be asking the district court offices to squeeze an access case in on the date I'm bringing him to court for an attachment of earnings. I'm going to move to revoke his access. The kids don't even want to see him, and it feels like I'm punishing them every time I leave them to his house.

I don't want this to ever happen to my boys ever again. I can't say that I don't feel to blame. I chose him for a father. I don't know how any parent could could treat their own flesh and blood in this way

Eru

Soccer Mom wrote: »

Thanks for your reply January. I did do this over the weekend, when the garda asked my son if he was okay, he said yes. He felt intimidated by the situation and thought he would get in trouble

I've told him since he has to be straight up with the gardai and that I can only help him if he speaks up. They are afraid of their Dad when he's being nasty with them

That tends to happen because people tell their children if they are bad the police will take them away, the main reason I hate people doing that.

But anyway, Gardai can only prosecute cases but cant work with families to resolve issues and as you have said yourself, it takes time to get a criminal case to court. A social worker can step in faster because they aren't attaching blame or seeking to punish anyone just protect. Be sure to state that its physical and Gardai are investigating. I see you have a visit planned, its vital than your son is open and honest with the worker and if so, the worker should be able to offer quick assistance.

Hope it works out

Soccer Mom

Eru wrote: »

That tends to happen because people tell their children if they are bad the police will take them away, the main reason I hate people doing that.

Thanks for replying Eru. you know, it's not even the garda he was scared of. He was afraid my ex would go nuts and hit him after they left if he said he wasn't happy. I had asked the garda to let my son know that he would have been removed from the house and brought home if he told the truth. I don't know how well this point came across, and I get the impression the garda was just treating it as some sort of tit-for-tat crap between too exes. I tried desperately to get across that it was my two sounds I was scared for, but it fell on deaf ears. The rest of the weekend was hell for them both.

But anyway, Gardai can only prosecute cases but cant work with families to resolve issues and as you have said yourself, it takes time to get a criminal case to court. A social worker can step in faster because they aren't attaching blame or seeking to punish anyone just protect. Be sure to state that its physical and Gardai are investigating. I see you have a visit planned, its vital than your son is open and honest with the worker and if so, the worker should be able to offer quick assistance.

Hope it works out

This is what I'm hoping for, the social worker will get all the info he needs from my sons, and intervenes. I hope to god it all goes in their favour tomorrow and something can be done for them.

January

A social worker could possibly get an emergency court date to revoke the access. You need to work to get the safety order turned into a barring order as soon as possible.

Dilbert75

I really hope you get on well tomorrow OP. I truly feel for you and, contrary to what you say, I'm sure you didn't choose your children's father believing he'd behave like that - like many people you probably kept believing he'd change and he'd be a great father. You're doing the right thing in trying to keep them away from his malign influence.

Should there be any delay in getting them away from him, I'd suggest sitting in a car outside the Garda station the next night they're with him. If / when the crap starts, walk in the door and say "listen to this"...

qwertytlk

I agree with all above advice, its all spot on. Just thought id add my two cents. Yes your right, every father has a right to see their child, however i believe the situation with him drinking and then badgering them is not on so in this case to continue the contact but in a 'safer way' , ie. Where your sons aren't being bullied, for want o a better word, i believe supervised contact would be far better. Heater that be in a contact center or at a family members home etc. Then if he is being mean or nasty, someone is there to stop the situation.

Hope you can work something out asap. Best of luck

Soccer Mom

January wrote: »

A social worker could possibly get an emergency court date to revoke the access. You need to work to get the safety order turned into a barring order as soon as possible.

Thanks Jan, but I thought it was only possible to get a barring order if your ex is still living in the same property?

Dilbert75 wrote: »

I really hope you get on well tomorrow OP. I truly feel for you and, contrary to what you say, I'm sure you didn't choose your children's father believing he'd behave like that - like many people you probably kept believing he'd change and he'd be a great father. You're doing the right thing in trying to keep them away from his malign influence.

You've hit the nail on the head there Dilbert. I kept hoping he'd come around for the boys, learn to separate our issues from being a parent. It's not going to happen any time soon.

Should there be any delay in getting them away from him, I'd suggest sitting in a car outside the Garda station the next night they're with him. If / when the crap starts, walk in the door and say "listen to this"...

I'm not even going to let it get that far. I've contacted child protection, and after explaining the situation the social worker told me 'you're their mother, it's your duty to ensure they are completely safe at all times. If you are in fear for them and they too are in fear, then don't take them to his house". Just to hear those words... I can't tell you the relief I felt. There maybe implications for it, but I'm working as fast as I can on the other side (the assault charge) as I can.

qwertytlk wrote: »

I agree with all above advice, its all spot on. Just thought id add my two cents. Yes your right, every father has a right to see their child, however i believe the situation with him drinking and then badgering them is not on so in this case to continue the contact but in a 'safer way' , ie. Where your sons aren't being bullied, for want o a better word, i believe supervised contact would be far better. Heater that be in a contact center or at a family members home etc. Then if he is being mean or nasty, someone is there to stop the situation.

Hope you can work something out asap. Best of luck

I understand this, but from what I gather supervised access isn't that easy to get. Maybe that just depends on how severe the situation is, I don't know.


Just a small update: I've been in contact with child protection and they are going to send out a social worker to both my exes home to question him about what happened, and to mine to see how the boys are coping since, and I suppose how they feel about their father.

On Monday morning I went to the district court offices to see if I could get an access case slotted in with the attachment of earnings case on the 8th of Dec, which would be just before he has the boys again. My jaw dropped to the floor when the girl behind the counter said it would be January before it would be brought to court. When I explained it was urgent due to concerns for the welfare of the boys, she gave me a court date for today to request the judge to 'bridge' the case over to the 8th, and THANK GOD he granted me it. I don't know what I would have done other wise.

My exes solicitor saw me in the court today, and hounded me for information, starting with 'I thought we weren't due in court till next week'. I merely replied 'you're correct, we are due in court next week' and I went to go into the court as I was being called. He went to follow after me to find out more, I was so angry. I asked the judge to make sure my exes counsel did not enter the court room, then a garda stood by the door.

I barely got to the bench when the Judge called out that he was allowing the access revision case next week, someone is looking down on me!

The garda that is dealing with our case rang me today to ask me if I'd come in next week and organize a full statement, but I'm worried that the longer the boys have to wait for a child specialist to question them, the more the fuzzy the details will get on them. It's dragging the whole saga out for them, when all I want to do is tell them positively that they don't have to go to their Dads until he gets help, and so they can put their heads on their pillows at night without thinking of this.

My eldest sons parent teacher meeting was yesterday, and I'm incredibly proud of him. Right across the board he is doing brilliantly, but the only comment that the teacher had to make was that sometimes he seems distant and that he looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders I've told him a bit of whats going on, to keep him in the loop and he said it explained things. Every day I'm pep talking them, trying to keep them positive, and that we'll be okay. Seems the eldest one is still fretting a bit. As a parent, that is just soul-destroying.

I've a bit of ground work in the next week, but Thursday next will be the big day. I hope to God the judge puts a stop to his access for now. I've thought about it a bit, and the supervised visits thing - but for now I think the kids need a break from him while he gets help. They're too scared to see him, I think a little bit of time needs to pass during which I can tell them that Daddy is getting help. Supervised visits would be a waste of time at the moment because they just wouldn't talk to him.

Sorry for the really long post, a lot has been going on. Thanks again for all your replies and kind words everyone

Daisy M

I am so happy for you and your boys that you are getting things sorted so quickly. Fair play to you for writing such a comprehensive post on the actions you have taken, this could be very valuable info to someone in the same situation and doesnt know where to turn. Have a lovely christmas.

Soccer Mom

Daisy M wrote: »

I am so happy for you and your boys that you are getting things sorted so quickly. Fair play to you for writing such a comprehensive post on the actions you have taken, this could be very valuable info to someone in the same situation and doesnt know where to turn. Have a lovely christmas.

I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but you're right, and thanks. Hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas too