Improving Insulation

Mullie

With the Winter setting back in I'm looking at ways to improve the insulation in the house.
Has anyone taken a peek into the roof cavity above the hall in the 2 beds? I'm wondering if this is open along the 'porch' overhang.
Also wondering how the mgmt company would react to an application to install a glass porch across the front? Is this a big no no?

Thanks!

Charlie-Bravo

It shouldn't be open - and you shouldn't be able to see into the neighbours. Insulation levels in the roof space might be lcaking though. It'd be nice to have 10 inches of insulation but I think you might only find about 4.

As for putting in a porch door - I'd be interested to hear what you had in mind. Don't forget that 'Planning' is also a hurdle to overcome as well as approval from the managment company!

Jimjay

astrofluff wrote: »

It shouldn't be open - and you shouldn't be able to see into the neighbours. Insulation levels in the roof space might be lcaking though. It'd be nice to have 10 inches of insulation but I think you might only find about 4.

As for putting in a porch door - I'd be interested to hear what you had in mind. Don't forget that 'Planning' is also a hurdle to overcome as well as approval from the managment company!

What terms with the management company is there regarding alterations that have been approved by the planning board?
There is a very large extension, 2 storey, in charlesland. I find it hard to believe the management company would have approved it.
Also I saw one of the end of terrace house had the hipped roof removed and a gable wall put in. Again if the management company terms say you can't alter the look of he house how was this approved?

I would be interested in hearing what hey say about porch.
Also what would be the rules ref taking out the old windows and doors and replacing the with good UPC windows in same style? I presume planning permission not required but would management company reject? The current windows are very poor quality.

neets

Let's face it, all our houses are in such horrendous negative equity, there ain't none of us moving any time soon! It's bad enough that we're the generation that will be trapped in houses that our families are quickly outgrowing. To be unable to stick an extension onto our houses (with planning permission) or make the attic a bit bigger, because the management says we can't, would be pretty hard to stomach!

Charlie-Bravo

All property owners in the estate are members of the management company - so you need to stand up and voice your concern, if you want something, ask - if your neighbour doesn't want you to have something, you can be sure they'll complain to both the management company and the planning department.

Yes, various bits of planning has been granted for houses in the estate. You cannot just go alter a house without considering the planning aspects - namely if it is exempt development or not. I know it looks like every house is the same, but each house is unique so the merits of each proposal has to be considered. If you're unsure if it's exempt or not, you can engage the services of a Chartered Building Surveyor or head down to the planning office for a consultation (inadvertantly telling them what you're up to!).

@Jimjay: You got it right, planning isn't an issue if you replace like with like for windows and PVC with thin internal glazing bars should be satisfactory. Just make sure the windows meet Fire Regs. There are timber windows out there that are far better quality, with better u-values using triple glazing or krypton gas - but you have to pay for it. PVC is really economical but can really cheapen the appearance.

As for the attic conversion on an end of terrace - the houses have massive potential if the gable is put in - the conversion of a standard hipped roof doesn't give you as much space as you'd like especially as the stairs cuts the space in half - only enough space for a single bed and not a double.

Maudi

Mullie wrote: »

With the Winter setting back in I'm looking at ways to improve the insulation in the house.
Has anyone taken a peek into the roof cavity above the hall in the 2 beds? I'm wondering if this is open along the 'porch' overhang.
Also wondering how the mgmt company would react to an application to install a glass porch across the front? Is this a big no no?

Thanks!

i have also been thinking along the same lines re the hall in 2 bed..ours is freezing... i suspect the insul is zero in the roof..im either gona gona check it or jus re slab the celing and exterior walls....also have bin thinking of some sorta glass porch across the front (would this be subject to planning(astro?)and how bout telling the mng com to f... o..?

Charlie-Bravo

Ok, I'm not going to skirt around the issue. My question is whether a porch front will look awful or not - what's the design going to be like?

The best way forward to is discuss this with the management company for the following reasons:

1. You can demonstrate that others (from reading on here) have a similar interest in creating an enlcosed porch. The MC can then appreciate that action is required and to have options explored to satisfy those member.

2. An agreed specification for the porch enclosure can be issued to all owners of the particular units in question. Any other installations not within the agreed specification can be then dealt with where the works are contrary to the deed agreement under the sale of the property.

3. And what is really beneficial, the MC can write to the Planning Department for a letter stating that the works are exempt development for the particular units.

I'm gonna start charging for my time on this thread :rolleyes:

dr ro

Before you do start charging, what should I look out for if thinking extensions to the back, side, attic and maybe the front if a 3 bed mid terrace. Thanks.

Charlie-Bravo

Nice try dr ro. If you're seriously considering an extension, I suggest we take it off line and discuss your plans in person.

2011

Has anyone taken a peek into the roof cavity above the hall in the 2 beds? I'm wondering if this is open along the 'porch'

Some tiles were removed so that I could gain access on a 2 bed and there was no insulation whatsoever. On another there was about 4" over most of it.

Welsh Wizard

The front wall on the 2 beds in the park (brick) Surely these should have insulation..

Just the other day whilst putting up the chrimbo lights i took the white vent off where i was able to get my arm in between the walls and feel nothing but a steady flow of cold icy air..!

Below this I have a small hole in the plaster board near the skirting board for where all the wires meet up, the icy air was just as bad..!!

I've seen companies going around that drill in to your wall and fill them with insulation, How much would this be....??

I'll say it again... F%*kin Bandits...!

Charlie-Bravo

The houses in the Park AFAIK are timber framed. The insulation levels between the timber frames should be substantial enough to meet at least a C1 energy rating. You can't do much about the vent, especially if there's a flueless gas fire in the Living and thats where you found the nice icey cold air coming through. Does your Living room face west by any chance? Nice prevailing wind against the house! Some other people on here have blocked their vents, or popped up some hit-and-miss slidey vents. Please do read you gas fire manual before you do any of that.

Try not to fill the smaller hole with anything like expanding foam - if you want to run another wire at any stage it'll be a nightmare to do. And remember, not all expanding foam materials have been tested to make sure they do not react with the material around any cabling and cause a fire. Just be careful with that one.

The filling of the cavity (between the timber frame and the outer brickwork leaf wall) is not an ideal solution to your problem - There is a reason for the cavity and filling it can only introduce other problems. Each and every application has a negative outcome of some sort, it's all about assessing the potential problems and coming up with the best solution for the job.

Welsh Wizard

Thanks for your help Astro..

Was told by a friend that they are called "Super warm" homes and i think the wooden frame work was done in Kilkenny and then transported up here.

We never use the fire so I decided to block up the vents from the outside, but still the icy air came in, so i had to block the vent from the inside...?
This just proves how much wind is flowing between the brick and plaster board..:(

**I know blocking vents shouldn't be done but the amount of drought coming through is suffice**

I'm not sure which way to turn now as im new to all this but Id like to get someone in and have a look and take it from there... Who knows, in the dream of dreams we all maybe "under insulated" and have them done under the home bond insurance..??

My sitting room is facing east... Thankfully.!!

Thanks again Astro..


WW

2011

Who knows, in the dream of dreams we all maybe "under insulated" and have them done under the home bond insurance..??

Although it can be clearly demonstrated that the level of insulation is poor I can assure you that Homebond does not cover this

Charlie-Bravo

Welsh Wizard wrote: »

I'm not sure which way to turn now as im new to all this but Id like to get someone in and have a look and take it from there...

I'm available through PM as always.

2011 wrote: »

Homebond does not cover this

Agreed.

2011

astrofluff wrote: »

You can't do much about the vent, especially if there's a flueless gas fire in the Living and thats where you found the nice icey cold air coming through.

I don't agree. You could:
1) Remove the vent cover inside
2) Cut a 4" hole in the plasterboard that aligns with the outside vent.
3) Insert a 4" pipe (standard waste pipe will do) in the hole. This pipe should align with the outside vent.
4) Cut the pipe flush with the inside wall.
5) Replace the inside vent cover.

What does this achieve? It dramatically reduces the outside cold wind from blowing around the wall cavity. It also ensures that the correct vent size remains.

Some other people on here have blocked their vents, or popped up some hit-and-miss slidey vents. Please do read you gas fire manual before you do any of that.

Agreed.

Charlie-Bravo

Thanks 2011 but, this is exactly what should already be installed if installed correctly (as per diagram 5 of Part F).

2011

astrofluff wrote: »

Thanks 2011 but, this is exactly what should already be installed if installed correctly (as per diagram 5 of Part F).

It should be, but it's not in any that I have seen. I have seen plenty in Charlesland as I used it to route cables.

Mullie

Just in case anyone is interested in how this plan went.
I decided against the porch for the time being, both because of cost and asthetics.

In the meantime, I've done a few things:
- Installed a radiator in the hall
- Installed a StormGuard around the front door to reduce drafts - http://reviews.diy.com/2191-en_gb/10908066/reviews.htm
- Sealed the inner door using weather strip from Woodies

This has made a huge difference to heat retention in the living room.

Interestingly, when the plumber knocked a hole in the wall to find the pipes, the wind tore through. He was amazed and says he's never come across anything like it before. Great!

I still want to get into that cavity above the hall, I doubt theres any insulation up there. Will post my findings if I survive.

dr ro

I've been curious about the insulation up there too so investigated a little bit. Basically took a few tiles off the rear section. lifted the weather proof sheet enough to get camera in to take a couple of pics. Turns out there was glass fibre insulation up there. Couldn't believe it. it's the bare minimum I'd imagine, but there nonetheless. Did your hall never have a radiator? Ours does but doesn't heat up properly. I've taken it off the wall and flushed it out but it still won't heat as high as others.

2011

Mullie wrote: »

I still want to get into that cavity above the hall, I doubt theres any insulation up there. Will post my findings if I survive.

It is not that hard to do. Remove a few roof tiles and climb in (if it is one the house types I am thinking of).

Interestingly, when the plumber knocked a hole in the wall to find the pipes, the wind tore through.

This is party due to the fact that Part F of the Building Regulations 2009 has been ignored. I suffered from the same fate, if is any consolation (all sorted now).

As discussed earlier there are some simple steps that you can take that will improve this significantly.

caesarthechimp

I've done a few BER assessments around Charlesland and I've noticed the following;
Houses near the front of the estate are masonry cavity wall built, and homeowners who have had the cavity pumped under the SEAI grant scheme are reporting a noticeable improvement in comfort.

Duplex types at the back are timber frame, and I wouldn't worry too much about wind blowing through the cavity because it is on the cold side of the insulation. Its supposed to be ventilated; you can't insulate it.
Just fit the sliding vents on the inside (the warm side) unless its a living room with a flueless gas fire. What you have to realise about these fires is that the chimney breast is a fake, and the exhaust gases go straight into the room. So for safety reasons you have to ensure a good fresh draught through the room, hence there are two vents, one high and one low. In effect, its like an Indian lighting a fire in a teepee, with the air coming in through the door and out through the hole in the roof.

On the plus side, the boilers and heating systems are pretty good all around Charlesland, which is as important as having good insulation. If you have a flueless fire and want to save a few quid in gas bills, have it disconnected, fit slider vents, and use the radiator for heating.

On the houses with an inner hall door, eg the duplex, those people who use the hall as an unheated airlock (or draught lobby) have a much cosier living room. When entering the house, they close the outer door before they open the inner one. If there is a radiator there, they turn it off.

The external staircase on the duplexes is a disaster to heat. if you live upstairs, turn off the rad at the top of the staircase and keep the top door closed and draughtproofed.

The cylinder stats around Charlesland seem not to have been secured to the cylinders, and commonly fall out. Check the hot water cylinder, there should be a slot cut out of the insulation with a small metal bulb sitting into it. If the bulb has fallen out and is dangling by a shiny "wire" put it back in, and tape over the slot with duct tape to keep it in.

Lastly, spare a thought for people living in those quaint old houses around Greystones; many of them have frost and ice on the inside of the window panes these mornings.

FirstIn

I'm in C'land Wood and like many others the bl**dy draft througn the vents at the front of the house (one high and one low) was awful. So I blocked the lower vent from the inside.

From reading the earlier threads I get the feeling that blocking the vents on the outside wall is the best bet as that stops the cold air entering the cavity.

Welsh Wizard

Getting back to my point though... Should the cavity not be insulated full stop...

I would of thought cold icy wind blowing throughout your house walls not very economical and kind of goes against everything ive heard and read of..

dr ro

FirstIn wrote: »

I'm in C'land Wood and like many others the bl**dy draft througn the vents at the front of the house (one high and one low) was awful. So I blocked the lower vent from the inside.

From reading the earlier threads I get the feeling that blocking the vents on the outside wall is the best bet as that stops the cold air entering the cavity.

Don't use the gas fire that came with the house if you've blocked the vent! Those fires were apparently bought cheap from england from a company that were left holding a load of them after they were made illegal due to the dangers of exhaust gases. It's possibly why the vents have been so poorly finished... to allow more venting! Seriously doubt it though.

Maudi

dr ro wrote: »

FirstIn wrote: »

I'm in C'land Wood and like many others the bl**dy draft througn the vents at the front of the house (one high and one low) was awful. So I blocked the lower vent from the inside.

From reading the earlier threads I get the feeling that blocking the vents on the outside wall is the best bet as that stops the cold air entering the cavity.

Don't use the gas fire that came with the house if you've blocked the vent! Those fires were apparently bought cheap from england from a company that were left holding a load of them after they were made illegal due to the dangers of exhaust gases. It's possibly why the vents have been so poorly finished... to allow more venting! Seriously doubt it though.

we dont use the fire for the same reason..terrible fumey smell from it so its off permanetly...the proplem is with the way the vents are finished ..they allow cold air in to front of house wall cavity..even the vents with the out to in ducting allow air in if they are not properly fixed..this and the inferior insulation in the wall itself lead to draughts...up stairs in the front bedroom i slightly pulled the carpet back and could feel a draught coming in under the skirting.downstairs i found a draught coming in the socket fitting,actually blowing in from the 3pin socket..in the hall another one blowing in around the fuse board..another at the hall celing from the light fitting and one from the smoke alarm fitting...(coming from the poorly insulated porch roof..)i even found a draught flowing up the pipe in the lower kitchen cubord..(.the pipe for turning off the gas..)
im thinking of taking the slabs down in the sitting and bedroom and insulating the walls PROPERLY myself ..all easily fixable and i hate draughts.y missus thinks im nuts but as i say if it was cold water pouring in these draught holes 24/7you would soon notice it.

dr ro

Same situation here. Drafts under skirting boards sockets etc. one of the fire alarms was acting up recently, beeping randomly in the middle of the night. Still don't know why. Changed the battery, no fix. Googled make and model and diy web site users recommend to stayaway from the ones we have, they're crap. Anyway I decided to test it using smoke and the draft coming out of the hole blew the smoke away! It did eventually work though, as did the upstairs one.
In relation to the gas fire, we had ours removed and replaced it with an electric fire. No danger. Looks good, good heat but you can hear it. Not a major problem though. I also blocked the vents. Not entirely, left a small hole!

Maudi

dr ro wrote: »

Same situation here. Drafts under skirting boards sockets etc. one of the fire alarms was acting up recently, beeping randomly in the middle of the night. Still don't know why. Changed the battery, no fix. Googled make and model and diy web site users recommend to stayaway from the ones we have, they're crap. Anyway I decided to test it using smoke and the draft coming out of the hole blew the smoke away! It did eventually work though, as did the upstairs one.
In relation to the gas fire, we had ours removed and replaced it with an electric fire. No danger. Looks good, good heat but you can hear it. Not a major problem though. I also blocked the vents. Not entirely, left a small hole!

yes id be leaving a small hole or leave the top one and completely block the bottom one(only to be done if you completely get rid of gas fire)as you do need some fresh air in and out..or you end up with a condensation problem..dont even start me off on condensation!

caesarthechimp

Welsh Wizard wrote: »

Getting back to my point though... Should the cavity not be insulated full stop...

First verify that your house is timber frame; go outside and look carefully at the wall. If you see little brown plastic vents between some of the bricks, this is where the air gets into the cavity. These are nothing to do with the wall vents inside, and don't line up with them. This cavity ventilation is to stop mould and rot taking hold on your timber frame. If that rots, the roof falls in on your head :pac:

When you stuck your arm into the cavity, (overlooking the fact that you shouldn't have been able to because the missing plastic duct pipe would have been in your way) you should have felt the bricks on one side and a breather membrane on the other side. The insulation is behind the membrane, between the timbers.

If people have draughts coming in through electrical outlets, the faceplates can be taken off and the holes in the back boxes can be sealed up with ordinary silicon mastic, but only after a qualified person has first disconnected the electrical power supply.

FirstIn

There was mention of the hot water tank and the bulb a few posts back. I understand the bulb measures temperature of the tank, this feeds back to a valve which then stops the water in the tank heating any more than has been preset by the setting on the valve. The coiled wire from the bulb goes back in to the valve so I guess that is how it works. Correct me if I am wrong.

Here are 2 pictures,
1: One of my bulb (as you can see it is just dangling about and there doesn't appear to be a cutout in the green insulation for it). Should I make a slot for it?
2: Second pic is of the valve that the bulb is attached to, in my case the valve is very loose. I didn't want to disturb it any more but the cap/top seems to be just sitting there. I am sort of guessing that it isn't doing anything.

In which case what is determining the temp in my hot water tank? The water temp setting on the boiler perhaps.
Anyone able to help explain how this all works.

[IMG][/img]
[IMG][/img]

caesarthechimp

FirstIn wrote: »

I understand the bulb measures temperature of the tank, this feeds back to a valve which then stops the water in the tank heating any more than has been preset by the setting on the valve.

Right. If your water is so hot it is scalding people, that costs you more in fuel bills. So you need to cut out a vertical slot @ 1/4 to 1/3 of the height of the cylinder to recess the bulb. have it touching the copper of the cylinder, then tape over the slot. Be careful not to kink the "wire", its actually a gas filled pipe. At the moment, your stat is only sensing the air temp in the hot press; no good.

Second pic is of the valve that the bulb is attached to, in my case the valve is very loose.

It looks OK, you can can tighten that serrated metal ring below the valve, visible in the photo. Have a look at one on a TRV valve on a radiator, where there is more elbow room to see what you are doing; its the same kind of mechanism.