The Ultimate Survival Knife [Read Mod post #175]

Tigger

Hibrion wrote: »

So what about food processing? I'd like something that can easily process small to large game and chop veggies etc. I think this is a simple requirement and any small knife with a straight edge and a good point is enough to process up to and including deer in Ireland.

I worked for nearly ten years as a butcher, so I find these tasks very easy. What do you guys think?

how small is small?

Tigger

krissovo wrote: »

Personally my requirements for a small knife are quite limited and its for basic cutting, skinning, carving/whittling. I would like a simple knife that gives me close control. A straightback or a slight clip point 3" blade, nice thumb ramp with no guard on the bolster.

It does not need much engineering IMO.

i'd be the same

not exactly the ultimate survival knife tho

krissovo

Hibrion wrote: »

So what about food processing? I'd like something that can easily process small to large game and chop veggies etc. I think this is a simple requirement and any small knife with a straight edge and a good point is enough to process up to and including deer in Ireland.

I worked for nearly ten years as a butcher, so I find these tasks very easy. What do you guys think?

I will admit I am shoite at butchery, I have not used anything smaller than 6" to process food (even at home) and this brings the knife into larger territory for me. In the field I process my food with a combination of a 4" mauser and a 12" kukri , not the best combo but its my current kit. Even pigeon I use the Kukri to get it prepared. Only when I am filleting the breast does my mauser come out.

Its looking like my requirements are very different to others so I may be a negative influence on this thread. I am going to take a bit of backwards step and just throw a few ideas around for you lads now and again.

krissovo

Tigger wrote: »

how small is small?

I probably edited it just as you were reading, 3" would be my suggestion.

krissovo

Tigger wrote: »

i'd be the same

not exactly the ultimate survival knife tho

This is why I think the ultimate knife is in fact two knives with a clever sheath.

Tigger

but if you had to pick?

krissovo

Tigger wrote: »

but if you had to pick?

9" blade with a slight weight forward curve but a lot more subtle than a kukri.

Tigger

krissovo wrote: »

9" blade with a slight weight forward curve but a lot more subtle than a kukri.

That's much like what I'd be thinking
Forward heavy 6mm blade 9 inch long and a square pommel

davymoore

Is there a need for two knives? .......... Perhaps there is .

Is it possible then, to design a combo. Large and small in one package, two tools that can work either together or independently.... Now there would be a challenge.

Davy

ShadowFox

Hibrion wrote: »

It's never to soon to think about any aspect of the build, but it's best to keep the thread on topic with the current step.

For now, all I need people to think about is:

What tasks they will use the knife for and,

If they want a fixed or folding knife

Ive more use for a small/medium strong fixed blade that holds a good edge easy to sharpen and has a comfortable handle lanyard hole to add wrist strap if needed more general utility work ( IMO what a knife is ment for)

Grizzly 45

Tigger wrote: »

Well fixed blade is a no brainer it's a survival tool not an edc
I

Unless of course you want to build somthing like the Ultima Ratio RAO knife!.:D
http://www.extremaratioknivesdivision.eu/english/index.html
look under heaviest folders. An intresting concept a ultra heavy folder with a lock for to turn it into a rigid blade.TBH, the thing that makes me run away from it is it is Italian!!!And like most things from that fine country it is high maintence,beautiful,unnecessarily complicated and breaks down whn you need it most.Speaking from experiance of having an Ex Italian GF,car and shotgun.I'm nor sure I want to risk my ass on one of their knife designs!:eek::)

However I do like its blade shape and design.

@Davvy,re the two knife package.Custom knife maker Frank Voight designed a really nice one called swampmaster back in the 80s.It was a mission specific custom design for swamp survival.Large 12in kurkhi in style big blade,and a smaller 5in utility blade.

Puma have done one for hunting for years,the Oberforester Fervert Waid besteck[senior forester Fervert hunting set,roughly translated]
It looked like a massive Puma Whitehunter blade an a smaller utility Puma knife in a double leather sheath.Was beautiful and functional but very expensive,and not strong enough for a survival knife..Will see if I can find some links to it.



http://www.messerdepot.de/product_info.php/products_id/1689

Tigger

a survival knife isn't a camp knife
the ultimate survival knife is certainly not a small whittling knife

but i suppose a camel is a horse designed by commitee

Hibrion

I like the term "utility blade", Grizzly. That is what I expected would come out of this thread.

I think we can safely say there is enough interest in this project and that no-one wants a folder!!

How about our next poll then: should we focus on designing ONE all purpose, utility, survival knife?

Now.. eh.. who can tell me how to make another poll :eek:

ShadowFox

Hibrion wrote: »

I like the term "utility blade", Grizzly. That is what I expected would come out of this thread.

I think we can safely say there is enough interest in this project and that no-one wants a folder!!

How about our next poll then: should we focus on designing ONE all purpose, utility, survival knife?

What size and style of blade are you thinking of?

Hibrion

Well, it's not about just what I think, it's about what everyone wants.

I'll say this though, of all the knives I have I use three knives the most: one custom, one medium priced off the shelf and a cheap off the shelf. The thing is they are all a within a few mm of 4 inches. That's the size I'd go for in an all purpose knife.

I have large blades that include kukhris and all the rest, but I don't really use them. I'm waiting on a custom 9 1/2 ich bowie at the moment, but that is for a very specific purpose.

Blade profile is something I don't have set in my mind at all. There a quite a few that will work really well for this blade, but we will have plenty of time to debate the pros and cons of them; that's when the real fun starts.

Hibrion

It's worth noting too, that what we want to build might not work when Davy gets down to and there will be minor changes as he grinds etc. In fact you can almost expect this to happen. It's part and parcel of a custom blade.

ShadowFox

Hibrion wrote: »

Well, it's not about just what I think, it's about what everyone wants.

I'll say this though, of all the knives I have I use three knives the most: one custom, one medium priced off the shelf and a cheap off the shelf. The thing is they are all a within a few mm of 4 inches. That's the size I'd go for in an all purpose knife.

I have large blades that include kukhris and all the rest, but I don't really use them. I'm waiting on a custom 9 1/2 ich bowie at the moment, but that is for a very specific purpose.

Blade profile is something I don't have set in my mind at all. There a quite a few that will work really well for this blade, but we will have plenty of time to debate the pros and cons of them; that's when the real fun starts.

I mostly use a Mora knife size wise its perfect The things I dont like about it is its hard to sharpen (I mostly just replace it as they are very cheap) and its not very strong When camping I carry a Kershaw Outcast but to be honest I mostly go for the Mora or Ka-Bar / Seal Pup if i want something stronger

Tigger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Unless of course you want to build somthing like the Ultima Ratio RAO knife!.:D
http://www.extremaratioknivesdivision.eu/english/index.html
look under heaviest folders. An intresting concept a ultra heavy folder with a lock for to turn it into a rigid blade.TBH, the thing that makes me run away from it is it is Italian!!!And like most things from that fine country it is high maintence,beautiful,unnecessarily complicated and breaks down whn you need it most.Speaking from experiance of having an Ex Italian GF,car and shotgun.I'm nor sure I want to risk my ass on one of their knife designs!:eek::)

However I do like its blade shape and design.

@Davvy,re the two knife package.Custom knife maker Frank Voight designed a really nice one called swampmaster back in the 80s.It was a mission specific custom design for swamp survival.Large 12in kurkhi in style big blade,and a smaller 5in utility blade.

Puma have done one for hunting for years,the Oberforester Fervert Waid besteck[senior forester Fervert hunting set,roughly translated]
It looked like a massive Puma Whitehunter blade an a smaller utility Puma knife in a double leather sheath.Was beautiful and functional but very expensive,and not strong enough for a survival knife..Will see if I can find some links to it.



http://www.messerdepot.de/product_info.php/products_id/1689

thanks now i have to buy a rao

Hibrion

Are you using a carbon Mora clipper or a different type? My carbon Mora is by far the easiest knife to sharpen that I own.

I agree that they could be sharper a full tang version would be nice. I have a USMC knife and havn't got much use for it and I don't much of the sog seal pup's quality. But everyone is different.

Doc Ruby

grapeape wrote: »

lanyard hole to add wrist strap if needed more general utility work ( IMO what a knife is ment for)

Thats the good thing about a nice big pommel, you can tie off the cordage just beneath it, especially if the handle is grooved.

Grizzly 45

Hibrion wrote: »

I like the term "utility blade", Grizzly. That is what I expected would come out of this thread.

I think we can safely say there is enough interest in this project and that no-one wants a folder!!

True enough,just hrew it in as a pot boiler.Be a major PITA to design IMO.

I'll say this though, of all the knives I have I use three knives the most: one custom, one medium priced off the shelf and a cheap off the shelf. The thing is they are all a within a few mm of 4 inches. That's the size I'd go for in an all purpose knife.

Measured my thre most used/survival utility and they are all OAL of appx 12 ins with appx 3to4in grips.Proably just because I have big hands,I find these nore user friendly.Anything over,are really knife draw queens.

Hibrion

MODS: can anyone tell me how to make a new poll at the top of the thread? It's time to ask our next important question.

eth0

Hibrion wrote: »

MODS: can anyone tell me how to make a new poll at the top of the thread? It's time to ask our next important question.

The mod will probably have to do it for you, I don't think mere mortals can edit an existing poll after its posted

davymoore

Hibrion wrote: »

MODS: can anyone tell me how to make a new poll at the top of the thread? It's time to ask our next important question.

Hib

You need to ask a mod to help you, Basically he will have to delete the existing poll and then start the new one. It's best if you send him the new poll/polls complete with options so that the can do it for you. Also with the constant need for a mod you would be better off leaving each poll run for a week or some set ammount of time for each step.


________________________________________

Now just to let you guys know I am not interested in building 2 knives, one big, one small as a SET (That's been done to death and theres no real challenge to us as a group).

What I would be more interested in is seeing if we could come up with a tool that incorporates two knives/ Blades but is just one single tool. A combo tool that can dismantle (Quickly) so that the knives/blades can work independently or function together as one complete tool.

Get your thinking caps on, I think it's a good puzzle

Hibrion

Thanks, Davy. I'll send one of the Mods a PM with the next poll.

This one was to get everyone used to the idea of the poll more than anything. I had no doubt we'd be looking at a fixed blade.

Hibrion

davymoore wrote: »

What I would be more interested in is seeing if we could come up with a tool that incorporates two knives/ Blades but is just one single tool. A combo tool that can dismantle (Quickly) so that the knives/blades can work independently or function together as one complete tool

Now that does sound like a challenge. I'm a bit puzzled too. You're interested in a knife with two blades but one that isn't two knives and it's not a folder?

Interesting.. I have one idea in my head but not sure if I think it will work. It could be very gimmicky.

I'll throw together a sketch and see what people think.

krissovo

davymoore wrote: »

Get your thinking caps on, I think it's a good puzzle

Game on I like a challenge, I have some ideas already. I will draw them tomorrow and post them up.

Hibrion

How about something like a bird and trout knife/ small carver that fits inside the handle of a large camp knife/ parang? The handle of the larger knife would have to be hollowed out and we would have to figure out how the blades could go together, but it might be worth considering.

Something like this idea: http://www.amazon.com/Paratrax-Bowie-Knife-Removable-Blade/dp/B000RMNXFA

But much less cheap and tacky looking and with more useable profiles ont he blades and a tidier fit into the handle of the larger knife?

krissovo

That was my thought process as well but I would worry about the strength and I would not want to lose the possibility of using the but as a hammer.

I have another idea or two that need drawings to explain properly.

ShadowFox

Hibrion wrote: »

Are you using a carbon Mora clipper or a different type? My carbon Mora is by far the easiest knife to sharpen that I own.

I agree that they could be sharper a full tang version would be nice. I have a USMC knife and havn't got much use for it and I don't much of the sog seal pup's quality. But everyone is different.

The Mora I use is a stainless steal one at the moment but I just recived a carbon one in the post this morning so ill give that a try next week

The Ka-bar and the sog I like mainly for size and they are alot stronger than the mora I like to have my knife on my belt rather than have to take it out of the pack every time thats why I go for the small to med size I can hide it in plain sight