The Ultimate Survival Knife [Read Mod post #175]

Tigger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Looks really uncomfortable to use with the crowbar head in the way.

thats what i thought but it looks like it gets things done
btw my rao arrived today and i love it. lol



thanks for putting me on it

Grizzly 45

:eek::DThat was quick...where or who'd you buy off ??

Tigger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

:eek::DThat was quick...where or who'd you buy off ??

heinnie.com

class site

i won a bit of cash betting on the last big brother (money is money) so i had that in my paypal ready to spend

Hibrion

The delivery service from Heinnie is amazing. They might be a bit more expensive than others but the service more than makes up for it.

Grizzly 45

Best of with it!:DKind of maxxed out on blades myself at the moment,so not in a major drive for one myself.But let us know how it works out?

Hibrion

So it looks like a two knife set is in the lead... please, someone else vote before the day is out!

Red Harvest

Hibrion wrote: »

So it looks like a two knife set is in the lead... please, someone else vote before the day is out!

Is it too late to ask if a knife is just the knife itself or is the sheath part of it? If that makes any sense?

A non folding blade will need a sheath of some sort so isn't it more obvious to put two blades in one shieth rather than one in the handle of the other?

If the main blade is a single piece blade that can be used for levering why wouldn't any second blade be folding? Then krissovo's diagram here would have a folding blade in the handle. But why go that far when you could just have a second folding knife with a pocket clip on the side that clips on the sheath of the main knife?

please ignor if its the wrong time for those questions

Voted one knife as I can always clip another folding blade on the side of survival knife sheath.

alanmcqueen

This is on the Knives of Alaska site, the Brown Bear Combo:

http://www.knivesofalaska.com/store.asp?c=28

It's certainly different. They have lots of combo sets, so maybe food for thought for some here including packs with axe, saw and knives.

I read once - can't remember where - that the USAF Survival School utilse this Brown Bear set with the suregrip.

The products appear to be well made, never seen one TBH, but my credit card has often thought the Brown Bear triple combo would be nice.

davymoore

From page 4

davymoore wrote: »

Now just to let you guys know I am not interested in building 2 knives, one big, one small as a SET (That's been done to death and theres no real challenge to us as a group).

alanmcqueen

davymoore wrote: »

From page 4

Bugger.:(

ShadowFox

davymoore wrote: »

From page 4

Then what's the point in having the vote.???

davymoore

grapeape wrote: »

Then what's the point in having the vote.???

I'm only saying that I'm not interested in building the traditional matching set .... I do this all the time....there would be no point , no challenge, theres nothing to gain from it.

I'm up for building a set of new, innovative tools. If we/you can come up with some exciting original design then I'd be well up for having a go at building the thing.

Davy

Hibrion

Well, it seems there is a clear preference for a two knife set. This is not something Davy is interested in and there seems to be too many different opinions on the thread for us to decide on one Ultimate Knife, so I think the idea might be a non-runner at this stage.

What do you think lads?

Tigger

DEMOCRACY SHEMOCRACY
as i said earlier a camel is a horse designed by committee

change this to ultimate survival tool and start again

Doc Ruby

I've already mentioned a design for a pommel/handle/tang that I haven't seen anywhere else, if you were to stick a good strong blade on that I'd be happy with it. It'll never hit mass production, but that suits some people better.

ShadowFox

I'm out ill pick up a custom knife set elsewhere thanks everyone for your ideas

krissovo

Hibrion wrote: »

What do you think lads?

We just have not been innovative enough yet, plenty of ideas and more will come if we push ourselves a little. I think we should split the thread, have one for the tool and one for the knife as both have merit. I think this is still good project.

@Davey - From looking looking at your previous work its mostly natural materials like wood handles and leather sheaths. Would you work in made made materials?

I am now thinking the real innovation is in the sheath with this restriction, could it incorporate a small fold out blade for detailed work, using the sheath as a handle? Is this a single knife?

If we take it further and border on cheesy how about incorporated firesteel? Skeletal sheath frame wrapped in paracord? Wire cutters? Fold out saw blade? Sharpening stone? etc etc

Whatever happens I think there is no compromise with the knife but maybe its the sheath?

Doc Ruby

Ditto on the sheath, I've never found a perfect one, and rarely even decent ones.

Grizzly 45

krissovo wrote: »

I

am now thinking the real innovation is in the sheath with this restriction, could it incorporate a small fold out blade for detailed work, using the sheath as a handle? Is this a single knife?

If we take it further and border on cheesy how about incorporated firesteel? Skeletal sheath frame wrapped in paracord? Wire cutters? Fold out saw blade? Sharpening stone? etc etc

Whatever happens I think there is no compromise with the knife but maybe its the sheath?

But thats been done as well,albeit in a cheapo way with Aitor Jungle king and the Wild Boar[It even had a slingshot incorporated into the handle]
Thing is;everything we have come up with has been pretty much done in some shape or the other over the years in the knife making world.:(

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But thats been done as well,albeit in a cheapo way with Aitor Jungle king and the Wild Boar[It even had a slingshot incorporated into the handle]
Thing is;everything we have come up with has been pretty much done in some shape or the other over the years in the knife making world.:(

Not so, wheres my canvas micarta handled megatang kabar?

krissovo

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But thats been done as well,albeit in a cheapo way with Aitor Jungle king and the Wild Boar[It even had a slingshot incorporated into the handle]
Thing is;everything we have come up with has been pretty much done in some shape or the other over the years in the knife making world.:(

Its never been done well before

Red Harvest

krissovo wrote: »

We just have not been innovative enough yet, plenty of ideas and more will come if we push ourselves a little. I think we should split the thread, have one for the tool and one for the knife as both have merit. I think this is still good project.

@Davey - From looking looking at your previous work its mostly natural materials like wood handles and leather sheaths. Would you work in made made materials?

I am now thinking the real innovation is in the sheath with this restriction, could it incorporate a small fold out blade for detailed work, using the sheath as a handle? Is this a single knife?

If we take it further and border on cheesy how about incorporated firesteel? Skeletal sheath frame wrapped in paracord? Wire cutters? Fold out saw blade? Sharpening stone? etc etc

Whatever happens I think there is no compromise with the knife but maybe its the sheath?

Are we trying to go a step to far in one go?

If we did the single knife in a sheath can we initially have the sheath so it will also hold a smaller folding knife which also allows a degree of user customisation. We can then get on with discussion of a single bladed survival knife and follow up with development of the sheath which could be anything from very simple to the bases of a complete multitool system in itself.

So can we discuss in order:

Single bladed one piece survival knife

Basic sheath for single bladed survival knife

The "Ultimate" survival knife sheath - perhaps call it the padde system ;)

Hibrion

I'm not sure lads. We all seem to be thinking different, and ultimately it will be up to Davy whether he wants to build it or not.

By all means, keep up the discussion, but I'm having my doubts at this stage. It has become too gimmicky for me. For me, a knife is a knife, not a multi tool.

bonniebede

http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/866-Morakniv-Craftline-TopQ-Allround-Knife/

http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/399-Morakniv-Companion-MG-Clipper-Knife/

I wonder if anyone knows these knives, they are reasonably cheap, and as a newbie i don't want to spend money until i know what i an looking for, so think it would be good to start on something like this.

Any suggestions?

davymoore

Hibrion wrote: »

I'm not sure lads. We all seem to be thinking different, and ultimately it will be up to Davy whether he wants to build it or not.

By all means, keep up the discussion, but I'm having my doubts at this stage. It has become too gimmicky for me. For me, a knife is a knife, not a multi tool.

Hibrion

I hope you don't mind but I think you lads are doing things backwards.

You are voting then discussing

The way we did it in the past was to propose a step in the design or build discuss various options and then once it had been debated fully we voted. This way people had a real understanding of what other folks thought and why before they voted. The more informed the electorate the better the choices that will be made. People getting stroppy and opting out because others dont vote the same way as themselves or offer a different opinion won't help you design a usefull tool.

I too think it's becomming very gimicky sounding but then you haven't nailed one single aspect of the build yet. There's still a long long way to go.

People have voted on 2 knives but what does this actually mean ??

davymoore

grapeape wrote: »

I'm out ill pick up a custom knife set elsewhere thanks everyone for your ideas

Yeah that's a great help mate thanks a lot ..........Good luck

Hibrion

davymoore wrote: »

Hibrion

I hope you don't mind but I think you lads are doing things backwards.

You are voting then discussing

The way we did it in the past was to propose a step in the design or build discuss various options and then once it had been debated fully we voted. This way people had a real understanding of what other folks thought and why before they voted. The more informed the electorate the better the choices that will be made. People getting stroppy and opting out because others dont vote the same way as themselves or offer a different opinion won't help you design a usefull tool.

I too think it's becomming very gimicky sounding but then you haven't nailed one single aspect of the build yet. There's still a long long way to go.

People have voted on 2 knives but what does this actually mean ??

I agree with you to a point. I wanted to vote on what type of setup first, to see what the majority of people wanted to build. The problem was everyone wanted something different.

It seems most people want some sort of a two knife setup. But I'm willing to bet that everyone who uses one knife else uses an axe or machete instead of a larger knife. That's why I think the nest way to go about it is designing the smaller 'tool', as there is a general consensus that this should be an actual knife. It seems the bigger 'tool' for everyone is either a large camp knife, machete, or axe.

I think it would be a shame to invest too much effort and time (especially on your part, Davy) on something so gimmicky you wouldn't trust your life to it. Simplicity and reliability are two things I quite like in a design, but then again, that is just my opinion.


Maybe we should try again, I just hope we don't end up with something ridiculous like this:

http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/images_products_large/4364.jpg

Where the knife has been lost behind relatively useless additions.
As I said before, I'm still willing to guide the build even if it goes way off my idea of a survival knife, I would be less interested if it gets to be a gimmick with flick-hatchets and doodas flying out of it everywhere.


What do you guys think??

Hibrion

bonniebede wrote: »

http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/866-Morakniv-Craftline-TopQ-Allround-Knife/

http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/399-Morakniv-Companion-MG-Clipper-Knife/

I wonder if anyone knows these knives, they are reasonably cheap, and as a newbie i don't want to spend money until i know what i an looking for, so think it would be good to start on something like this.

Any suggestions?

Most of us, if not all, will have used or still use a Mora Clipper for something. They are an excellent all round knife and you won't be disappointed. They are actually reasonable priced from Ray Mear's website too.
Pick up a laplander folding saw or a good axe, a firesteel, and a DC4 stone and you will be sorted for basic tools.

Amazon have Bacho Laplander saws for 12 pounds sterling at the moment. A great deal considering they usually cost 2-3 more..

Grizzly 45

Maybe we should try again, I just hope we don't end up with something ridiculous like this:

http://www.heinnie.com/uploads/image...large/4364.jpg


Doubt Eickhorn would make anything gimmicky.As they are a well known knife maker in Germany.Thats actually a mission specific survival knife for aircraft crews or rescue personel of same.

Which brings me onto..Mission requirements or needs.
Everyone has sofar had different needs.Everything from deer /fish gutting to large camp knife types.As it seems we have as diverse needs or opinions on what is our survival situations,any knife we design will be IMO a compromise somwhere on the design.So we will end up with a Camel knife...[A horse designed by a comittee]

This is why I think the two knife package will come out on its own..Yes it has been done thousands of times before..But ask yourself then WHY?
Is it because knifemakers wanted to show off their skills,or is it because the feedback they are getting from survivalists,etc is that two knives is proably the only way to go??

Yes I admit I use my Gansfors hunters axe alot more for opening pelvic bones and ribcages than my TOPS Armageddon.But the Gansfors is one awkward SOB to carry when out hunting.Id rather the Armageddon along with a smaller blade like maybe a mini bushman along in a double sheath,or a skinner blade.In that package I know I have when needed a big bruiser of a blade and a smaller sharper one for more delicate work.
Buts thats my mission needs.Which might be at large with anyone else.
Designing a sheath to do everything,will kind of be dictated by the knife size.Bigger the knife more sheath space to add bits onto.Until you are walking with a 15 degree list from the weight of your blade and its ancillary bits.:D.TBH folks ,Duct tape and whatever you want secured is now standard military procedure to adhere things to your knife sheath.
Not pretty by any means but 100% effective.

I think we need to step back one here and actualy decide what mission does our blade need to fulfil in an uniquely IRISH situation?
What would be the most likely threats to you in Ireland??
[First thing then.A bottle cap opener for the Guiness bottle:)]

Hibrion

Hibrion wrote: »

Ok guys, we are starting to get some interest int his project now. Before we decide any of the design factors (that includes size of knife, whether it will be one or two, or anything else like that), what are the MAIN jobs you expect out of a survival knife?

Lets not make this a debate yet. My ideas on what I would like will be very different to each of yours. For now, if we could just list OUR OWN preferences that would be great.

For me, my main concern is cutting ability. I want something that will be able to feather a stick, cut through natural and man made cordage and be able to carry out the basic carving duties one needs to make key elements of kit while in the wilderness: pot hangers, basic camp cutlery, stakes, etc. and the option for it to be used to split branches and very small logs for fire wood if needed.

The ability to strike a fire steel is something I see as essential as strikers can be easily lost.

Hammering duties do not concern me too much as there are alternatives in nature that can be used easily.

I did ask what people wanted to use a knife for earlier. Why don't we try that again? I'll start a simple bullet point list. If you want to add something, copy the list in a post and add your point. After a few days we should have a good list to work with. As I said before, lets not get completely bogged down in design aspects just yet. Let's all put our heads together and think what we want a KNIFE to do. I see my main area of use being rural, but what about you guys?

1. Cutting various materials
2. Preparing meat/ fish/ plants
3. basic carving of tools
4. feathering wood
5. striking a firesteel