Potential SHTF scenarios & tinfoil hat thread (Please read post 1)

Tabnabs

This thread is for all SHTF or TEOTWAWKI possible scenario posts. Euro collapse, civil unrest, alien invasion, nuclear fallout, etc.etc. Whatever comes up in the news or looks to be possibly coming our way. Please use credible sources and keep the CT stuff for the CT forum.

eth0

With the current Euro problems we could be in serious trouble if we or some other Eurozone country doesn't pay back debt owed to China. Tensions are rising between the US and China. Now the US are probably to blame for this since yer man Raegan decided to go over and start doing business with them

Since the 80's the US and to a smaller extent Europe has been outsourcing the manufacturing of nearly everything that will fit on a container to China. So we could sit back and take lousy service and admin jobs while selling overpriced houses to each other to fill them with cheap (often poor quality) shoite out of china.

Obviously management types can't continue to outsource everything to China and expect the people here to keep buying it but there is a desire to hold on to the lazy way of life outsourcing has afforded us, so we borrow from China to keep buying their stuff. Then they get smart and start making their own products to sell to us, cutting out the traditional rich Western CEO and "design" team. This is already happening to a large extent and the combined effect of us having to repay loans to them means the 'sucking us dry' process is in full swing.

If we gradually start bringing back our manufacturing sector then it will cushion the blow but if China catch us off guard (ie. now or in a few years) then we could be looking at a protracted period of misery. If China gets oil producing companies on their side it will be worse still. IF they decide to annex Taiwan then we'd be left with almost no supplier of electronic components at all.

First you will see electronics getting hugely expensive, ****e in people's homes starts to break and they can't get new, then businesses start to suffer and loads will go bust. We'd be living a 50's or 60's lifestyle before long.

If the whole Euro crisis blows over I reckon this one's next on the list and like with the Euro crisis the longer its delayed the worse it will get. One thing is sure and that is the way we're doing things now can't continue indefinitely

Builderfromhell

Things are going from bad to worse and the prospect of the euro collapsing is being openly discussed by world leaders.
My own thoughts include the fact that money in a bank account may be of questionable value in the near future. That being the case I would prefer to spend my, as yet not devalued, money and stockpile food and fuel.
Things could deteriorate very quickly and supply lines of food, from the UK, could cease very quickly if Ireland can't pay.

Grizzly 45

TBH,China cant press much either,as they are in lockstep with the rest of the World financially and ecnomically.Despite their announcements that busisness is booming,it has taken a hit too.And worse for Central Comittee,as their home markets open up the more cuts of the death of a thousand cuts are issued to the communist system controling ,what is fundamentally now a capitalist society.There is more a fear of China imploding and going politically unstable from within.

Yeah,we buy too much of their copies of our technology produced at bargin basement prices,but then we only have ourselves to blame as we priced ourselves out of the market in the West years ago.

Unless we want to work back on production lines 1930s style at 2dollars an hour, 14 hour shifts,Mon to Sat,it isnt going to happen very soon.

Nor is it likely that China will invade Tiwan either.They are not fools in the Chinese military,and they know it would be a very costly operation in both taking on the US navy whom they might or might not defeat,and which carries a very high risk of having major parts of Chinas infrastructure,C&C,political,and military resources turned into very radioactive glass for the next million years or so within 6to12 hours after the engagement!!:eek:.Losing "face" is the big thing in the Chinese psyche so that kind of an option isnt really open to them...yet.

For China to get the Arabs on their side[who the Chinese cant stand cultually or politically either .They consider them barbaric and uneducated Muslim troublemakers in their area of rule!].It would take a position that the Chinese Yen[??] was worth more than the US dollar.
As the OPEC lands still deal with the dollar and will do so despite its fluctuating value.Everyone in the world trusts the dollar.There is more than a trillion USD outside the United States.TWICE the amount that is in circulation within CONUS!!Thats one huge unoffical foreign loan from the US to the world.Unless for some reason the USD stops being trusted as the unoffical world currency..[I mean WTF wants Euros nowadays??] that option isnt very likely either.
Even if they did knock the electronic supply,India is coming online as is Brazil,so it wouldnt be too much of a problem.Quite frankly,I liked the 1960s and HIfi and domestic stuff of that time was built to last decades not months anyway.:D

eth0

Food shouldn't be much of a problem, we produce too much of the stuff here

If you're seriously worried look at other currencies to buy into

Singapore dollar
Swiss franc
US dollar

Unfortunately the Euro collapse is the kind of SHTF you can't grit out with your survivor knife and a few rounds of ammunition in the mountains or at home. Moving to Canada or Australia or other stable non-Eu economy should probably be the long term goal here

Hootanany

eth0 wrote: »

Food shouldn't be much of a problem, we produce too much of the stuff here

If you're seriously worried look at other currencies to buy into

Singapore dollar
Swiss franc
US dollar

Unfortunately the Euro collapse is the kind of SHTF you can't grit out with your survivor knife and a few rounds of ammunition in the mountains or at home. Moving to Canada or Australia or other stable non-Eu economy should probably be the long term goal here

How would one go about putting ones money in to these currencies many thaks in advance

Grizzly 45

A very realistic scenario.
Buying a good load of food,and possibly
"luxury items" like booze,fags[if you dont drink or smoke yourself].Not to mind ammo[small high value easily transported items]would be adviseable.
after all, in post war Germany and the Weimar republic Cigs became an unoffical currency.
Seeing that DIRT is going to go upto 30% anyway.And after this fiasco was caused by the banks,how could anyone trust them???The Govt wants you to go out and go shopping,why not??Buy the basics and not alot of crap that you wont need anyway.[Like luxury items].I'm seeing about changing spare cash into USD or STG.As they are somwhat more stable than the Euro.
Gold IMO is a hopeless proposition as the country is being robbed blind by these con operation cash for gold shops.As Ireland never had a gold standard,we havent a clue about how to decide numistic or intrinsic value.Not to mind it is stupidly high in price now.
One thing I would expect and feel it will happen somtime soon.Is a flood onto the money markets of duff 50 and 100 euro notes!!!The best time to totally destroy a currency is to finish it off with funny money,so everyone looses faith in it.
A hard rain is going to fall pretty soon on us here in Europe folks.:eek:

eth0

Hootanany wrote: »

How would one go about putting ones money in to these currencies many thaks in advance

You show up at a bank or one of those dedicated currency exchange shops with some Euro notes and say can I have some dollars pls

There is probably a way to do it online as well, but never bothered with it myself

Grizzly 45

Hootanany wrote: »

How would one go about putting ones money in to these currencies many thaks in advance

Go to a foreigin exchange and buy them at a rate that isnt robbery in the comission.:)
Wouldnt do it in a bank if at all possible..They will start asking questions,especially if it is large transactions over 5 grand,what with money laundering laws and such,and if you have an account in the same bank.....
Better off going to possibly an post or a Thomas Cook exchange in the airports or high street.

Food shouldn't be much of a problem, we produce too much of the stuff here

Errr,yes and no TBH!We produce beef and dairy products and export them outside Ireland,but stuff like the humble spud we import from afar as Israel these days!!
We dont grow enough wheat anymore to keep the bread supply going.Little or no sugar beet anymore.Which along with the spud,be a valueable ss crop for fueling transport,if done right!]
Even the humble apple is now imported along with almost every other exotic and normal veg and flower from the Netherlands.Whom we would have a job competing against.Our fishing policy is a EU joke!! THEY fish our costal waters bare,and SELL us the fish!!
At this stage I hope that somone in Govt is actually looking at these problems and how to sort them out if it should go tits up!But thats like forward thinking and we aint very good at that here are we??:rolleyes:

castlepoint

doesn,t bare thinking about.

eth0

castlepoint wrote: »

doesn,t bare thinking about.

Unfortunately one has to bare thinking about these things as doing so will make you more prepared in the event it does happen

The problems we been having with the Euro the past few years, recession and all don't seem to end. Even if italy is propped up for another bit with borrowed money the next problem will arise.

I think China is already to blame for a lot of it but they're getting off easy because China will kick up a fuss if EU leaders start criticising them in a big way

Countries like Ireland and Greece with little export capability have done just about feck all for EU and the Euro. Yea we export a lot, but to the rest of Europe and its mostly software. Nothing of substance is made in such countries and its often at the detriment of the rest of Europe. Sensible countries like Germany that havn't completely dismantled their manufacturing industries are keeping the rest of us afloat so we can sell houses and overpriced coffee to each other.

Even in the UK there are loads of companies that used to make stuff, now they just import shoite from China, stick on the trusty brandname that Granny's love and sell to the crowd back home.

There is only one thing for it and thats to force each country to be more independent. Own currency, it will be worthless at first but in the long run as we start being productive again it will get us back on our feet.

The stuff that EU leaders are doing with bailout packages and then bigger bailouts is only a delay tactic

An Ri rua

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A very realistic scenario.
Buying a good load of food,and possibly
"luxury items" like booze,fags[if you dont drink or smoke yourself].Not to mind ammo[small high value easily transported items]would be adviseable.
after all, in post war Germany and the Weimar republic Cigs became an unoffical currency.
Seeing that DIRT is going to go upto 30% anyway.And after this fiasco was caused by the banks,how could anyone trust them???The Govt wants you to go out and go shopping,why not??Buy the basics and not alot of crap that you wont need anyway.[Like luxury items].I'm seeing about changing spare cash into USD or STG.As they are somwhat more stable than the Euro.
Gold IMO is a hopeless proposition as the country is being robbed blind by these con operation cash for gold shops.As Ireland never had a gold standard,we havent a clue about how to decide numistic or intrinsic value.Not to mind it is stupidly high in price now.
One thing I would expect and feel it will happen somtime soon.Is a flood onto the money markets of duff 50 and 100 euro notes!!!The best time to totally destroy a currency is to finish it off with funny money,so everyone looses faith in it.
A hard rain is going to fall pretty soon on us here in Europe folks.:eek:

Very little of what you have said about gold is true. What a load of crap to put your name to and attest that you know what you are talking about.

1. Read someone who is a goldbug for 30-40 years and one of the most respected voices worldwide. Has called it consistently for decades. Read and learn from @LarryEdelson here http://www.uncommonwisdomdaily.com/lots-of-money-to-be-made-in-the-dow-gold-silver-the-dollar-and-oil-13291

2. Read his blog partner, @SeanBrodrick, also a serious commodities and goldbug. Plus a survivalist of many sorts, including financial for when the SHTF. Read ABOUT him here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Suburban-Survivalist-Guide-Smartest/dp/0470918195/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322538756&sr=8-1

You have plainly displayed that you know very little about gold or about its role as a workable currency if / when FIAT currencies collapse, as they will; in various stages in various parts of the globe.

I really wish people wouldn't spoof when the know sweet F all about something.

Buy up small denomination gold and silver coins. Ensure that they aren't counterfeit by reading up correctly on what to look for. Check Goldcore and also ebay guides for that. Plus much more research besides. Particularly buy silver if you seek usable coinage.

Finally, read and understand, that gold will go to AT LEAST $11,000 before the end of 2013 should USA begin to print to save EU economies. Gold is dropping now as fear drives people to safe cash currencies. But, when USA starts to print for the Euro bailout, fasten your safety belts.

Read more on $11k (conservative figure) gold here http://www.beaconequity.com/smw/13754/Goldmoney-s-James-Turk-11-000-Gold-Price. ps I'm buying and selling gold, physical and digital (www.bullionvault.com/#OFFALYGOLD) for a few years now and I also successfully pan it and MD it, right here in the boring Midlands

Survivalists should be smart, should be thinking for themselves, reading for themselves and making the right decisions to protect theirs and their people.

My first post in this forum, love your collective posts, but Jesus, dismissing gold really p*sses me off. Its salvation itself.

Marcus_Crassus

If you're going to transfer your money over to another currency, I don't think the dollar would be too safe either..

NIMAN

Are threads like this serious? Seriously?

People's advice is to buy tinned food, booze and ammo. This isn't a Hollywood film folks.

SNAKEDOC

if the world went tits up tomoro the first place i would go is a garden centre and get as many seeds trees and such as i could. i'd get supplies for farming and simply go self sufficient. then i'd stop off at the nearest gunsmith and look into getting a rifle not to go killing foke but to hunt with. there is my food supply restored straight away. fruit veg and meat. plenty of water about. time to get planting. there was a time when most people in this country survived on nothing but potatoes so id say we could do it again

krissovo

I did experience a currency collapse in the Former Yugoslavia, I served in Bosnia very early in the conflict when the Dinar was still the local currency. At first it was devalued at 10:1, imagine 1/10 of your savings/salary disappearing over night. Soon after this hyper inflation kicked off and really wiped the slate clean when notes were printed up to 10billion dinar.

Very soon after this started the dinar was almost universally dropped and people took it upon themselves to start using the German Deutschmark or other trade items. Precious metals during the height of the crisis was almost worthless, these only had local value once there was local recovery.

Sterling and dollars were also traded but the Deutschmark was seen as the strongest currency due to the fact it was easiest to get hold in mainland Europe and stable.

I have 50% of my money in Sterling, its a gamble but I think if the Euro did collapse then the Irish would trade in Sterling with the best rates. I have lost a few bob in the exchange but I now travel to the UK to deposit money. The Dollar is a bit too far away to get hold of decent amounts. I have some gold but its only for once there is a recovery, as a trade item its useless.

Top trade items were:
Underwear & Socks- I guarantee in most non western places around the globe you will get a warm reception and best trade value if you have underwear or socks to trade. I have been doing it in Africa and Asia since the late 80's. It was the same after a few months in Bosnia, I always crammed a bergan full I bought from penney's of the stuff before I deployed so I could trade with locals.

Toilet paper - Do I need to say more, it runs out quicker than you think!

Livestock - Mmmmmmm, fresh meat! Even in parts of Bosnia that escaped the conflict fresh meat and dairy produce would trade very well. Livestock went like tulips at one point where a goat could get you a car!

Skills - If you are skilled you have a trade item, skilled workers never went hungry as they traded work for items they needed. Builders, metalworkers, craft items (pots, pans, utensils, baskets etc) and plumbers seamed to do best, carpenters, brickies, butchers (its true) went in decline

Feel good items - Chocolate, perfume, deodorant, nice clothes etc etc.......... When the SHTF pound for pound these were more valuable than any precious metal.

Food - Convenience food stuffs are very handy to have and trade with. In Bosnia I gave a family with nothing a 10 man ration box, they managed to trade part of this up for some tools so the man could start trading skills.

Builderfromhell

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

if the world went tits up tomoro the first place i would go is a garden centre and get as many seeds trees and such as i could. i'd get supplies for farming and simply go self sufficient. then i'd stop off at the nearest gunsmith and look into getting a rifle not to go killing foke but to hunt with. there is my food supply restored straight away. fruit veg and meat. plenty of water about. time to get planting. there was a time when most people in this country survived on nothing but potatoes so id say we could do it again

If only life were so simple;
Buying seeds to grow food means that at best you'll have vegetables next summer and most fruit bushes won't produce fruit the first year. Fruit trees obviously take longer.
You'll need a gun licence for a rifle and permissions from farmers to shoot deer, a jeep to collect them, camouflage clothing and the skills that go with stalking.
Even if you did eek out a living on potatoes and such you would need to have experience and knowledge to grow, harvest and store them.

Regarding gold as a safe hedge against currencies collapsing or rapid inflation, Gold cannot be eaten or is not of much practical use. If I had a few thousand euros of gold and all the shops have closed owing to a currency collapse and associated problems I am not going to be able to eat.

I would prefer to trade my supplies(Garden vegetables, hens, geese, berries, firewood, diesel) with my neighbours for their supplies than have gold that may be of some value in the distant future.

krissovo

An Ri rua wrote: »

Survivalists should be smart, should be thinking for themselves, reading for themselves and making the right decisions to protect theirs and their people.

My first post in this forum, love your collective posts, but Jesus, dismissing gold really p*sses me off. Its salvation itself.

Gold is interesting, I have seen a man with 1 oz of gold and a man with a chicken in Bosnia. Gold at that point was worthless to the owner as he had a hungry family. The man with the chicken had a few of them so he was "rich" at that particular time as he had a sustainable food source.

Who was the Survivalist? Well both were, the man traded his gold for a chicken and he and his family lived another day. The trade value of gold at that point was next to worthless, the chicken had far greater value. Once recovery took place then Gold did come into effect and people who had this could start over middle class again rather than working class.

As a survivalist I put more value on keeping my family sheltered, warm and fed than being able to guarantee my middle class status.

colonel-yum-yum

Though there are a lot of good pointers and arguments here, there is a bit of disparity in the "scenario" people seem to be discussing preparation for.
There is a big difference between:

• The big STHF scenarios where all shop are closed, nothing is importable and people are resorting to hunting and growing their own food to survive. Having everything you might need in stock as it's the last you'll get of it and you can trade it as currency.
• A devalued currency where things are a bit more expensive or harder to get hold of due to exchange rates. Having a few things in stock is a good idea as it will be more expensive in the shops.

Though both of these points merit discussion, I don't know how constructive it is to discuss both together as they are very separate scenarios.

krissovo

colonel-yum-yum wrote: »

Though both of these points merit discussion, I don't know how constructive it is to discuss both together as they are very separate scenarios.

I have read bits of the Argentinian guy with his experiences of their currency collapse, I am not so sure they are that far apart. Certainly one would trigger the other.

An Ri rua

@krissovo, nice post, nice insight.

Worth noting that the dinar disappeared while other great FIAT currencies were flourishing. The death of the euro means the death of the combined trust in the deutschmark, the franc, the lira and to a lesser extent other currencies. The world money system will be in serious danger (particularly credit mechanisms which affect trade) if the euro collapses and mid-term even more so should USA be the ones to print Europe to safety.

Would agree re tradable skills. ps as a crisis unfolds, gold typically follows sentiment down. As attempts are made to address crises, gold rises exponentially. whether that is by printing loads of new paper money or by returning to a gold standard of sorts. Yes, @krissovo understands it well. Gold is a store of wealth, even moreso than a usable currency. Look at the the research of James Turk of goldmoney.com as to the relationship between gold and FIAT currencies over the last century.

One thing worth noting, @krissovo, is your reference to middle class status. That DOES concern a great many people as we enter full swing of this Euro crisis. I do not believe we will see SHTF of armageddon proportions but we would see supply shortages due to trade credit issues (it almost happened in 2008 worldwide when the Bills of Credit system was about to collapse and container ships stayed at sea until the world financial system made critical decisions). The thing worth noting is that, chickens aside, if you have an ounce of gold and another man has a now useless 3rd car, or excess land, you could find yourself leapfrogging the generations and acquiring a VERY cheap asset. I have a Chinese year of the Dog 1/2 ounce .9999 coin that, because of limited run, was worth €600 in 2009 and is now worth €2500. I have no doubt that I will get a decent 2ndhand 4x4 or an acre of quality land for that coin inside 3-4 years. THAT is the sleeping power of gold in crises such as these.

Grizzly 45

An Ri rua wrote: »

My first post in this forum, love your collective posts, but Jesus, dismissing gold really p*sses me off. Its salvation itself.

SNIPPAGE of a Dumb and unrelated and ABUSIVE:mad::mad: post of a rant that had nothing to do with what I said by somone who obviusly runs a gold shop or cant be arsed reading and comprehending.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Maybe if you went and reread what I posted instead of sounding off.
I said gold is becoming unaffordable and that Ireland has neve had a gold standard.So HTF are you going to trade with it here,and that cash for Gold shops are blatant rippoffs Which they are,as they are buying gold at scrap value not its intrinsic value.NOT that it is a unwise investment.IN SMALL AMOUNTS!!!As any of the survivalist forums will tell you.


HOW are you going to break dow your soverign or kruger rand and make change when you get aroud to buying somthing with them here??

Good ,I'll sell you a can of beans for your 1000Euro value soverign.You will have bought a can of beans worth 1000euros,and I'll have a gun to ensure the deal stays that way too.
First post.Put both feet into itallright with a charter breach!!

Grizzly 45

NIMAN wrote: »

Are threads like this serious? Seriously?

People's advice is to buy tinned food, booze and ammo. This isn't a Hollywood film folks.

And what would you be purchasing inthe reality you percive post TSHTF?????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

krissovo

Do you have a physical collection or certificates? If you dont mind me asking.

Grizzly 45

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

. then i'd stop off at the nearest gunsmith and look into getting a rifle not to go killing foke but to hunt with.

I think yu will find THAT option is going to be gone pretty instantanously either thru looting,or gun confiscation thru either the police or military.
Also,you are not going to go hunting in the sport sense anymore.It costs too much in energy for value returned to you.Traps ,snares and foraging will be the way to go on that.

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

SNIPPAGE of a Dumb and unrelated and ABUSIVE:mad::mad: post of a rant that had nothing to do with what I said by somone who obviusly runs a gold shop or cant be arsed reading and comprehending.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Good ,I'll sell you a can of beans for your 1000Euro value soverign.You will have bought a can of beans worth 1000euros,and I'll have a gun to ensure the deal stays that way too.
First post.Put both feet into itallright with a charter breach!!

[mod]Grizzly 45, if you have a problem with a post or poster, the report button is there for you. Let's be civil and informative please folks. [/mod]

Back on topic, I was in Iraq in 99 and the locals we met had a severe shortage of water containers. We offloaded a load of empty 2 litre plastic water bottles to them in exchange for Iraqi currency with Sadam's picture on it (for the novelty factor for us). The most mundane things become highly coveted post-SHTF.

krissovo

Tabnabs wrote: »

We offloaded a load of empty 2 litre plastic water bottles to them in exchange for Iraqi currency with Sadam's picture on it (for the novelty factor for us). The most mundane things become highly coveted post-SHTF.

Off Topic......We found a briefcase full of this money in a bunker, we used it to decorate a wall in our bar. You brought back a very happy memory of me thinking I was a millionaire for a short while until I realized it was worthless.

Grizzly 45

krissovo wrote: »

I did experience a currency collapse in the Former Yugoslavia, I served in Bosnia very early in the conflict when the Dinar was still the local currency. At first it was devalued at 10:1, imagine 1/10 of your savings/salary disappearing over night. Soon after this hyper inflation kicked off and really wiped the slate clean when notes were printed up to 10billion dinar.

Very soon after this started the dinar was almost universally dropped and people took it upon themselves to start using the German Deutschmark or other trade items.

Precious metals during the height of the crisis was almost worthless, these only had local value once there was local recovery.

Plus1

Sterling and dollars were also traded but the Deutschmark was seen as the strongest currency due to the fact it was easiest to get hold in mainland Europe and stable.

Remember that one too well;) Long story..

.

I have some gold but its only for once there is a recovery, as a trade item its useless.

PLUS1,I just hedge mine with STG and USD as no matter where in the world you go the USD is still the most recogniseable and unoffical world currency.

Top trade items were:
Underwear & Socks- I guarantee in most non western places around the globe you will get a warm reception and best trade value if you have underwear or socks to trade. I have been doing it in Africa and Asia since the late 80's. It was the same after a few months in Bosnia, I always crammed a bergan full I bought from penney's of the stuff before I deployed so I could trade with locals.

Toilet paper - Do I need to say more, it runs out quicker than you think!

Livestock - Mmmmmmm, fresh meat! Even in parts of Bosnia that escaped the conflict fresh meat and dairy produce would trade very well. Livestock went like tulips at one point where a goat could get you a car!

Skills - If you are skilled you have a trade item, skilled workers never went hungry as they traded work for items they needed. Builders, metalworkers, craft items (pots, pans, utensils, baskets etc) and plumbers seamed to do best, carpenters, brickies, butchers (its true) went in decline

Cant fault that..Didnt think about socks and underwear..Its so..common you wouldnt think of it.:cool:

Feel good items - Chocolate, perfume, deodorant, nice clothes etc etc..........
When the SHTF pound for pound these were more valuable than any precious metal.

PLUS1 Imagine how much a bottle of good whiskey would be worth to an alcoholic,or a stick of fags to a addicted chain smoker??As you said,Gold is only usable when society settles down and people can start figuring out a tradeable value on items.
It was the same in postwar Germany up until about 1948 which my family did survive.The currencies were American ciggerettes,[even down to thrown away butts from American GIs],penecilln,fresh fruit[My mother only saw her first orange when she was 9 in 1946!!],fuel,nylon stockings,chocolate,bird feed for chickens.

Food - Convenience food stuffs are very handy to have and trade with. In Bosnia I gave a family with nothing a 10 man ration box, they managed to trade part of this up for some tools so the man could start trading skills.

Indeed,how my grandfather started off again in post ww2 Gemany to build a local industry.He managed to get a rooster and two hens and traded the eggs and re started from there.
They fled Berlin with some gold jewellery and a few gold coins too,as my grandfather had a busisness in Berlin and was savvy enough to have some after living thru WEIMAR,but it was the first thing looted off them at gunpoint by the American GIs,along with my grandfathers watch.

One point as Kurt Saxon said about gold in a survival situation.
The man with gold wanting to trade for a gun from a man with a gun.The man with the gun most likely will still have the gun and the gold!!

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Tabnabs;75727524][mod]Grizzly 45, if you have a problem with a post or poster, the report button is there for you. Let's be civil and informative please folks. [/mod]

PM sent.

An Ri rua

krissovo wrote: »

Do you have a physical collection or certificates? If you dont mind me asking.

Me? Both. Physical (panned and also numismatic) and digital via Bullionvault.

No, Grizzly 45, I do not have a gold store. Yes, gold can be traded. Buy small enough allocations via grams if needed. The market does not act rationally, whether in depression, euphoria or SHTF. Even when people are starving, someone will want your gold. Think of the Irish Famine. Markets are not logical, everyone has a different agenda.

waterfordham

krissovo wrote: »

I did experience a currency collapse
..snip..
Top trade items were:
Underwear & Socks- I guarantee in most non western places around the globe you will get a warm reception and best trade value if you have underwear or socks to trade. I have been doing it in Africa and Asia since the late 80's. It was the same after a few months in Bosnia, I always crammed a bergan full I bought from penney's of the stuff before I deployed so I could trade with locals.

Toilet paper - Do I need to say more, it runs out quicker than you think!

Livestock - Mmmmmmm, fresh meat! Even in parts of Bosnia that escaped the conflict fresh meat and dairy produce would trade very well. Livestock went like tulips at one point where a goat could get you a car!

Skills - If you are skilled you have a trade item, skilled workers never went hungry as they traded work for items they needed. Builders, metalworkers, craft items (pots, pans, utensils, baskets etc) and plumbers seamed to do best, carpenters, brickies, butchers (its true) went in decline

Feel good items - Chocolate, perfume, deodorant, nice clothes etc etc.......... When the SHTF pound for pound these were more valuable than any precious metal.

Food - Convenience food stuffs are very handy to have and trade with. In Bosnia I gave a family with nothing a 10 man ration box, they managed to trade part of this up for some tools so the man could start trading skills.

Interesting, so following that line of reasoning, if you had to go shopping now for the next (12? months maybe 24?). What would you be shopping for? Just curious.

Beginning to wish I had done a 'trade' of some sort.

Grizzly 45

An Ri rua wrote: »

Me? Both. Physical (panned and also numismatic) and digital via Bullionvault.

No, Grizzly 45, I do not have a gold store. Yes, gold can be traded. Buy small enough allocations via grams if needed. The market does not act rationally, whether in depression, euphoria or SHTF. Even when people are starving, someone will want your gold. Think of the Irish Famine. Markets are not logical, everyone has a different agenda.

We are not disputing that it cant be traded at all.We are disputing that it is foolish to have all your eggs or gold in one basket.The Irish famine,those that it really affected had sweet FA to trade for a rotten potato not to mind gold!!If they had any gold as coin of the realm it was gone on buying somthing to eat or geting out of Ireland.Yes it is an asset but as Krissivo and my familes experiance has pointed out ,it only has value when some sort of commerce takes up here again.

Not to mind gold like most other items of value can be confiscated by the powers that be under emergency legislation.Usually at gunpoint,with you been given in lieu some worthless paper money of the new govt if it is govt types... lead if it isnt.

Yet they might overlook a supply of fags or a few extra bottles of well stashed booze.Or a buried stash of .22rifle shells out on your property.

As we are heading towards th Euro collapse which I think is a given within the next 12 or less months the currencies around here will be dollars or STG.Or we will find somthing of barterable value amongst ourselves if it really goes to pot here.

Gold unless you can figure out how to break it down to "change" isnt going to work well as

[1] We dont have enough of it to go around for a common currency.

[2]Its intrinsic value is too high for everyday items.IE a tin of beans for a gold soverign ...400 euros plus for an item worth at best a fiver.[Unless of course things are really bad and baked beans will never be available again.]

3]Unless you know how to test it with nitric acid,it is an easily forged metal or currency.

4]The US survivalists recommend stockpiling some pre 1964 US coinage because there is silver in coinage.So it has some value.However I dont think our Irish coinage since the inception of the state has had that either,and the money at the moment[euro] isnt worth anything ,certainly not even its face value.
Thats my take on it.Better to have a little of somthing in many baskets than it all in one basket.

krissovo

waterfordham wrote: »

Interesting, so following that line of reasoning, if you had to go shopping now for the next (12? months maybe 24?). What would you be shopping for? Just curious.

Beginning to wish I had done a 'trade' of some sort.

Grizzly has a good shopping list;) And for your lack of trade you can take up a "hobby" that will cover not having a trade. Learning to make booze/baskets/bread/Pate for example and perfecting good results will give you a head start. Sell it at car boots or craft fares for a couple of times.

In Bosnia there were quite a few opportunists in the early days, copied CD, DVD's and Game shops opened everywhere, vulcanizer's (tyre repair) suddenly opened up 2 or 3 to a village as the roads were so bad and tyres needed a lot or work. There were even fast food trollies that served vermin and birds and with their secret ingredients tasted fine.

Obviously think of your own needs first and think of how much space you have. If you live in a semi then buy what you can store. If rural you can focus on the immediate requirements like food, firewood which require larger areas. For your shopping you need to find a consumable item that is relatively cheap and luxurious at the same time and these will have demand regardless of the situation.

Fags - I pick up a rim or two every time I travel to a cheap(er) country. Brands dont really matter and "freshness" does not matter that much to a desperate smoker. Value of these has only gone up and will continue to do so. I still have fags from Saudi Arabia that I bought in the early 90's that cost me €3 for 200, I can and have sold these for €5 a pack of 20 recently. I can still buy rims of Marlboro in Asia for around €5 a rim. Most of my fags come from Spain or now Poland as I know people who regularly travel plus being EU I can bring back a suitcase full.

Booze - Now cheap crap will always be available but middle to high end stuff is really where the value is. Pull out a bottle of Middleton rare and the value will remain, same goes with Brandy. Used in the right situation will pay back your investment easily. Strangely enough the American Jack Daniels and Jim Beam always go down well even though I consider it cheap and nasty so I have plenty of this crud as well.

Grizzly 45

waterfordham wrote: »

Interesting, so following that line of reasoning, if you had to go shopping now for the next (12? months maybe 24?). What would you be shopping for? Just curious.

Beginning to wish I had done a 'trade' of some sort.

But you already have a survival trade!:D A Ham radio operator will be quite a useful person to have .IFIWY ,I'd be learning up on all the skills needed to keep your equipment in top shape,how to cannabilise ,repair ,improvise and fix any sort of transmission/reciving equipment you might come across from old ww2 valve radio transmitters to modern SAT comms.Buy in some books and tools and you neednt be too worried about your future trade.;)Not to mind figuring out how to EMP proof stuff.

As for buying in over the next 12 months,Food,fuel,proper clothing[not fashion stuff,solidly built rugged clothes and footwear] and possibly barterable items.Go to a Euro store and look at the shelves,think what of all there is in a place like that that you use everyday,everything from pens and paper to sweets and household items.What would you pay for a good can opener if you hadnt got one to hand??;)

Only thing as a mega fly in the ointment.
As we are all so cash starved at the minute trying to keep our day to day lives going paying bills and whatever.How many of us do have money left over to put into operation any major plans and purchases to make life better for ourselves??
I am about 2 years behind my plans since 09 to get things into place,and thats just due to financial capital to do any of this.

ShadowFox

If the weather forcasters are right we could have other problems soon
http://www.herald.ie/news/new-ice-age-on-the-way-but-its-just-a-little-one-2901083.html

Grizzly 45

And the other lot says it will be global warming.Yet another shower say this Winter wont be as bad as last..One fact has emerged solar flares and sunspots are supposed to flatline for the next decade.
So this might have somthing to do with it??
Either way today was freezing cold,and if my records are right it kind of started getting cold this time last year..

ShadowFox

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And the other lot says it will be global warming.Yet another shower say this Winter wont be as bad as last..One fact has emerged solar flares and sunspots are supposed to flatline for the next decade.
So this might have somthing to do with it??
Either way today was freezing cold,and if my records are right it kind of started getting cold this time last year..

Well if your records are wrong so are mine lol

eth0

Bring on the Fecking snow!

Grizzly 45

It can hold off till next week when I get proper tyres on my 4x4:D

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And the other lot says it will be global warming.Yet another shower say this Winter wont be as bad as last..One fact has emerged solar flares and sunspots are supposed to flatline for the next decade.
So this might have somthing to do with it??
Either way today was freezing cold,and if my records are right it kind of started getting cold this time last year..

this day last year we were covered in snow, chattin to my bro in law today and he was stuck in london because flights were canceled there and here

waterfordham

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But you already have a survival trade!:D A Ham radio operator will be quite a useful person to have .IFIWY ,I'd be learning up on all the skills needed to keep your equipment in top shape,how to cannabilise ,repair ,improvise and fix any sort of transmission/reciving equipment you might come across from old ww2 valve radio transmitters to modern SAT comms.Buy in some books and tools and you neednt be too worried about your future trade.;)Not to mind figuring out how to EMP proof stuff.

As for buying in over the next 12 months,Food,fuel,proper clothing[not fashion stuff,solidly built rugged clothes and footwear] and possibly barterable items.Go to a Euro store and look at the shelves,think what of all there is in a place like that that you use everyday,everything from pens and paper to sweets and household items.What would you pay for a good can opener if you hadnt got one to hand??;)

Only thing as a mega fly in the ointment.
As we are all so cash starved at the minute trying to keep our day to day lives going paying bills and whatever.How many of us do have money left over to put into operation any major plans and purchases to make life better for ourselves??
I am about 2 years behind my plans since 09 to get things into place,and thats just due to financial capital to do any of this.

Hey, I never said I was an Amateur Radio operator, who told you that

Unfortunately, there is too much modern stuff today that uses surface mount components, that's another skill that needs to be developed. And I've not quite been brave enough/had enough time to try messing with SMT stuff. Plus there's better techs than myself within cycling distance. That said, necessity is the mother of invention and all that. And, yeah I am building up a book collection etc.

The simplest solution for EMP is disconnect it from everything, wrap in a plastic bag and stick it in a metal box. If the EMP is strong enough to kill the device with that, then I'm probably dead already (That said I currently only have one transceiver protected in this way. I could do with getting a suitable ammo box). I always disconnect HF antenna when I'm not here anyway.

Roger on the basics. I guess a lot of it is common sense. I'll go back through the thread. And I empathise re cash-flow. I'm in the same boat myself.

sheesh

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056449011 this thread had some good stuff in it

concur4u?

in a f888 k up ireland we will firstly resort to history then some sort of fall out hierrccy when that will not work we will fall back into cave man mode only the fittest will survie with or without supplies by the way u who hav may learn to keep or soon place a value on life/survial :mad:

mister gullible

waterfordham wrote: »

Hey, I never said I was an Amateur Radio operator, who told you that

Private Dicks know everything

An Ri rua

When its going mainstream, its time to worry : -

http://www.rte.ie/news/money/debt/how-would-my-finances-change-if-euro-collapsed.html

ps we spoke (I apologise if I was a little gruff re defence of gold) re safe havens of wealth and using gold as a currency in a SHTF situation. Some mentioned Sterling. The reality, in the eyes of both goldbugs but also markets is that the euro, though deeply troubled, is backed by 10,000 tonnes of gold. In fact they've resurrected this meme as a comfort blanket to those who worry about the ECB's ability to pay off ALL debts incurred. Britain, on the other hand, due to Gordon Brown's vision, has only 300 tonnes of gold to back up its currency. They have already deployed quantitative easing. When they resort to that again and again, how long before externally and internally its only worth sh1t? So, no, as a store of value another FIAT currency is a dicey move. We're not in the early part of the 20th century; we're in a globalised financial economy. If we're f*cked, they are too. And on it goes. All currencies, or rather all banking systems become deeply unstable if the euro derails.

Tonight, although gold is heading down due to the euro crisis (counter-intuitive but its the case), I've converted all remaining euro into Bullionvault Zurich gold. And yes, getting that back in the face of a banking meltdown will not be straightforward. But leaving it in yoyos? No thank you. Incidentally, we should now see more and more gold being sold off by central banks according to Larry edelson (@larryedelson)> Why? because politicians see it as assets that can be converted into cash, which pays bills and keeps things liquid. They don't see it as a store of wealth or as a currency in itself. It is, however. Anyone who wants to skip the queue in the Celtic jungle should put away some gold and wait it out. Do not swap for chickens or a ride or a corset for your darling wife. Keep it. Just like you did with your confirmation money. You kept that, didn't you?

krissovo

I am sorry but anyone who didnt convert cash 6 months ago or even longer are simply too late. Unfortunately whatever you do now you will lose somehow be it exchange rates, commission or rip off traders milking the system.

Once its mainstream you're to late! This is why we prepare with the basics, Shelter, Food and Water first followed by valuable assets.

Hal Emmerich

krissovo wrote: »

I am sorry but anyone who didnt convert cash 6 months ago or even longer are simply too late. Unfortunately whatever you do now you will lose somehow be it exchange rates, commission or rip off traders milking the system.

Once its mainstream you're to late! This is why we prepare with the basics, Shelter, Food and Water first followed by valuable assets.

Exchange rates are pretty similar now to what they were 6 months ago though?

I think.

Sparks

krissovo wrote: »

I am sorry but anyone who didnt convert cash 6 months ago or even longer are simply too late.

Yes, because you can no longer buy Coca-cola shares anymore, or any blue-chip stock.

Oh, wait...

Grizzly 45

An Ri rua wrote: »

When its going mainstream, its time to worry : -

http://www.rte.ie/news/money/debt/how-would-my-finances-change-if-euro-collapsed.html

ps we spoke (I apologise if I was a little gruff re defence of gold) re safe havens of wealth and using gold as a currency in a SHTF situation. Some mentioned Sterling. The reality, in the eyes of both goldbugs but also markets is that the euro, though deeply troubled, is backed by 10,000 tonnes of gold. In fact they've resurrected this meme as a comfort blanket to those who worry about the ECB's ability to pay off ALL debts incurred. Britain, on the other hand, due to Gordon Brown's vision, has only 300 tonnes of gold to back up its currency

True enough,if Britan had joined the Euro they would have had 10,300 tonnes of gold.Only trouble with this is the Euro going in the future be valued on specie???[IOW wil one Euro or Nord Euro be worth its weight in gold,or reedemable as such??]A few hundred billon euro notes are going to chop into 10k tonnes of gold pretty quick.Indeed the "one eyed Scottish idiot"[ala Jeremy Clarkson] did them no favours by not stocking up the bank of England with some gold reserves.However it is still under UK central bank control,which will only work in UK intrests ratherb than the EU.

. If we're f*cked, they are too. And on it goes. All currencies, or rather all banking systems become deeply unstable if the euro derails.

Tonight, although gold is heading down due to the euro crisis (counter-intuitive but its the case), I've converted all remaining euro into Bullionvault Zurich gold. And yes, getting that back in the face of a banking meltdown will not be straightforward. But leaving it in yoyos? No thank you.

That was one I'd be worried about from the word go.You have a piece of paper saying you have "gold" appx 1000 miles away in another country...
I myself would rather have in in physical form with me in coinage.

Incidentally, we should now see more and more gold being sold off by central banks according to Larry edelson (@larryedelson)> Why? because politicians see it as assets that can be converted into cash, which pays bills and keeps things liquid. They don't see it as a store of wealth or as a currency in itself. It is, however. Anyone who wants to skip the queue in the Celtic jungle should put away some gold and wait it out. Do not swap for chickens or a ride or a corset for your darling wife. Keep it. Just like you did with your confirmation money. You kept that, didn't you?[/

Very true indeed ,if however you can find somone who recognises the intrinsic value of your gold rather than the junk weight value of the metal in Ireland. IOWsay a US gold double eagle has a collectors value worth of maybe 5,000 usd,but its gold weight is worth maybe 500 euros.Most people are selling their gold here on "junk metal "weight EG [500 euros] rather than the intrinsic value.Whats to say a gold dealer isnt hhoarding up the coinage and relying to make a profit in the future on the intrinsic value of the coins sold to him. [IOW the old gag I'll sell you a fiver for a tenner!].If you got gold sell it outside the ROI:eek:

Doc Ruby

I dunno, back in the 60s it was the military industrial complex, jury's still out on that mind you, in the 70s they told us OPEC was going to destroy civilisation, in the 80s the sky was falling through the hole in the ozone layer and the Japanese were going to rule the world, in the 90s global warming and water supplies were in fashion, these days you have a fine buffet to choose from, economic collapse, overpopulation, climate change, terrorism, outsourcing, peak what have you, and so on.

Its all bullshit in my opinion. Thats not to say I'm not going to be prepared in case of emergencies, recent history is replete with examples of people caught short whether its hurricane Katrina or the floods in Dublin or the councils running out of grit for the roads or a nuclear reactor in Japan being hit with the double whammy of a tsunami and an earthquake. And at the end of the day nature has a mean uppercut.

But I'm not about to invest large amounts of time and money planning for the end of the world. I mean gold? Buy a few bricks of tobacco in eastern europe and you'll have a far more valuable trade good at a sliver of the price. You want to protect your wealth? Invest in a pension fund, they dwarf everyone else these days anyway, when you hear the media talking about "the markets", that's really who they are referring to.

We have a few hidings coming our way, medical science is running neck and neck with serious deadly contagion and politically its game up for a few characters who aren't known for going gentle into that good night, but really, look after yourself and yours and you'll be alright.

Still if anyone's interested I'm selling top quality tinfoil hats with inbuilt faraday cages at bargain basement prices.

eth0

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Still if anyone's interested I'm selling top quality tinfoil hats with inbuilt faraday cages at bargain basement prices.

I'm glad someone finally brought up the subject of tinfoil hats 4 pages after someone retroactively stuck them into the title of the thread