Farming if the euro goes

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Of course, I'm merely highlighting that it's not all about the European banks

Irish people would lose a lot as well

ive no problem with that

keep going

Tipp Man wrote: »

Of course, I'm merely highlighting that it's not all about the European banks

Irish people would lose a lot as well

not if you dont have any money;)

djmc

I have eight thousand shares in anglo irish bank thought I could make a quick buck :D:D
but **** happens :eek::(

johngalway

moy83 wrote: »

I see the UK owes us nearly as much as we owe them . How the feck is that ?

I heard on the radio the last day something like the US' debt to GDP ratio (something like that anyway!) is worse than Irelands. So not everything is as bad here as people make out.

Some people commentating are doing so from a purely self serving political view.

There's a thread over in the new Survivalism & Self Sufficency forum on the effects of economic collapse in Argentina, it is frightening.

In UK farming circles it's been commentated upon, why is the Euro still so good against Sterling?

Simple, Sterling ain't all that. Sorry if I burst some bubbles with that as they're not in the Eurozone but a lot more countries than Ireland are in uncomfortable places.

What will happen farming? Everything we buy will become a lot more expensive, that's a promise. What we sell has been variable for years so I'm making no prediction on that, but don't bet the farm on your stock becomming more valuable, there's simply no guarentee.

Don't know about support payments. There's been talk and some action on reductions for years, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that was put on a bit of a faster track when or if more countries get into serious trouble. If people have been watching, Frances cost of borrowing is increasingly mentioned, not to mention Italy and Spain. All of that will undermine confidence in Germany.

My view is stay in the Euro for as long as possible. On our own we're very voulernable (spelling!).

whelan1

keep going wrote: »

not if you dont have any money;)

i am fine so:D

Tipp Man

keep going wrote: »

whatever about the euro(the germans have the mark printed with a couple of months btw)wouldnt be great if we left the eu no more subsidy farmers and we could milk away as much as we want,might be the best thing that ever happened.we could tell all the bank bond holders to get lost and slash our costs across the boards.it would be s**t for a few years but we would be going alot faster

The problem with this is that is sounds great in theory but the reality would/could be much different

The first thing to realise is that the amount of money the country owes is not really that big a problem. The reason being that national debt is rarely repaid on due date. So unlike your typical mortage where you repay principal and interest and at the end of the period you are debt free, national debt is more like an interest only mortage whereby you pay the interest but none of the principal. Then when you are expected to pay the principal in 1 lump sum you simply get another interest only mortage, pay off the first mortage and then pay the interest on the new mortage. For governments this is a continuous process which is why if you look at the amout the USA for example owes then you will see that it is nearly continously increasing - the reason is they never actually pay it off.

So although the government owes huge amounts of money - the amount it is actually costing the country is relatively small as we are only paying the interest.

Ireland's biggest problem is its budget deficit. To put it in context if we burned every bond holder that we owed money to, both soverign and bank debt, then our budget deficit would only be reduced by something like 10%. We would still have a massive defecit and no way of paying for it as we would be excluded from the bond markets

If the bank bailout had never happened I think the IMF would still have had to bail us out, maybe not as soon as when they did but it would still have been necessary IMO. It is worth remembering that the budget deficits for 2009 and 2010 (or maybe its 2008 and 2009) added as much to national debt as the Anglo bailout

Now getting back to the point about a "few tough years". I think the numbers from the survey on the frontline that i posted earlier clearly show that the Irish people don't have the stomach for a few tough years. In all of the areas that cuts need to be made the majority of the people said they didn't want to cut. be it welfare, pension, child benefit, whatever the people clearly showed they didn't have the stomach for it because all of these things need to be cut, and cut dramatically. And while there are some cuts to come over the next few years they would be far more brutual and far more rapid if we turn our backs on Europe. And in my opinion the Irish people are in no way prepared for the hardship this would bring

Tipp Man

keep going wrote: »

not if you dont have any money;)

Well if somebody has no money then it shouldn't really matter to them if we are in the EUR or not, if we stay in the EU or not, and if burn the bondholders or not

5live

Tipp Man wrote: »

The problem with this is that is sounds great in theory but the reality would/could be much different

The first thing to realise is that the amount of money the country owes is not really that big a problem. The reason being that national debt is rarely repaid on due date. So unlike your typical mortage where you repay principal and interest and at the end of the period you are debt free, national debt is more like an interest only mortage whereby you pay the interest but none of the principal. Then when you are expected to pay the principal in 1 lump sum you simply get another interest only mortage, pay off the first mortage and then pay the interest on the new mortage. For governments this is a continuous process which is why if you look at the amout the USA for example owes then you will see that it is nearly continously increasing - the reason is they never actually pay it off.

So although the government owes huge amounts of money - the amount it is actually costing the country is relatively small as we are only paying the interest.

Ireland's biggest problem is its budget deficit. To put it in context if we burned every bond holder that we owed money to, both soverign and bank debt, then our budget deficit would only be reduced by something like 10%. We would still have a massive defecit and no way of paying for it as we would be excluded from the bond markets

If the bank bailout had never happened I think the IMF would still have had to bail us out, maybe not as soon as when they did but it would still have been necessary IMO. It is worth remembering that the budget deficits for 2009 and 2010 (or maybe its 2008 and 2009) added as much to national debt as the Anglo bailout

Now getting back to the point about a "few tough years". I think the numbers from the survey on the frontline that i posted earlier clearly show that the Irish people don't have the stomach for a few tough years. In all of the areas that cuts need to be made the majority of the people said they didn't want to cut. be it welfare, pension, child benefit, whatever the people clearly showed they didn't have the stomach for it because all of these things need to be cut, and cut dramatically. And while there are some cuts to come over the next few years they would be far more brutual and far more rapid if we turn our backs on Europe. And in my opinion the Irish people are in no way prepared for the hardship this would bring

+1. And just remember folks...... these are the good days:(. We are still picking off the easy stuff to cut and tax. Wait until we have to start cutting the important stuff like health and education, not just sucking off the fat but in the next 2 years we HAVE to cut the muscle and even the bone off too.

Its not going to be pretty:(

pakalasa

Agree with the above posts. Tough times ahead alright.
I don't think young people fully grasp this. Trying to make ends meet has always been a reality for most people. People got spoiled during the boom years. We had a standard of living that was probably one of the best in the world....and all from what, spending other peoples life savings. Money they had worked hard to save all their lives...and we just spent it like it was going out of fashion.

whelan1

pakalasa wrote: »

Agree with the above posts. Tough times ahead alright.
I don't think young people fully grasp this. Trying to make ends meet has always been a reality for most people. People got spoiled during the boom years. We had a standard of living that was probably one of the best in the world....and all from what, spending other peoples life savings. Money they had worked hard to save all their lives...and we just spent it like it was going out of fashion.

agree 100% was talking to another parent yesterday , she doesnt know what to get one of the kids for christmas as he has everything!

lakill Farm

i know the preception is that people in there 20s and 30s had a great time or it :rolleyes:, but maybe not us all.

Ok i had the subaru impreza after college, but i also put myself through a 4 year degree program, working 7 days a week during summer and working 32 hour weeks part time, commuting 120 miles a day, 5 days a week and doing an accountancy degree and all without a loan at the end and had bought a car and had traded it up.

I guess if you work for something you want its a greater reward than getting it half handed to you. Its down to living within your means.

Just my 2cent worth and from the other side.

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

The problem with this is that is sounds great in theory but the reality would/could be much different

The first thing to realise is that the amount of money the country owes is not really that big a problem. The reason being that national debt is rarely repaid on due date. So unlike your typical mortage where you repay principal and interest and at the end of the period you are debt free, national debt is more like an interest only mortage whereby you pay the interest but none of the principal. Then when you are expected to pay the principal in 1 lump sum you simply get another interest only mortage, pay off the first mortage and then pay the interest on the new mortage. For governments this is a continuous process which is why if you look at the amout the USA for example owes then you will see that it is nearly continously increasing - the reason is they never actually pay it off.

So although the government owes huge amounts of money - the amount it is actually costing the country is relatively small as we are only paying the interest.

Ireland's biggest problem is its budget deficit. To put it in context if we burned every bond holder that we owed money to, both soverign and bank debt, then our budget deficit would only be reduced by something like 10%. We would still have a massive defecit and no way of paying for it as we would be excluded from the bond markets

If the bank bailout had never happened I think the IMF would still have had to bail us out, maybe not as soon as when they did but it would still have been necessary IMO. It is worth remembering that the budget deficits for 2009 and 2010 (or maybe its 2008 and 2009) added as much to national debt as the Anglo bailout

Now getting back to the point about a "few tough years". I think the numbers from the survey on the frontline that i posted earlier clearly show that the Irish people don't have the stomach for a few tough years. In all of the areas that cuts need to be made the majority of the people said they didn't want to cut. be it welfare, pension, child benefit, whatever the people clearly showed they didn't have the stomach for it because all of these things need to be cut, and cut dramatically. And while there are some cuts to come over the next few years they would be far more brutual and far more rapid if we turn our backs on Europe. And in my opinion the Irish people are in no way prepared for the hardship this would bring

i agree that most people are not prepared to be hit hard in the pocket and thats why i believe that any referendum put to us will pass , we will hand over complete economic soverignty to the germans if it means the sentence is less severe than leaving the euro

irishh_bob

pakalasa wrote: »

Agree with the above posts. Tough times ahead alright.
I don't think young people fully grasp this. Trying to make ends meet has always been a reality for most people. People got spoiled during the boom years. We had a standard of living that was probably one of the best in the world....and all from what, spending other peoples life savings. Money they had worked hard to save all their lives...and we just spent it like it was going out of fashion.

it isnt just young people who dont grasp it , old age pensioners think they should have everything for nothing regardless of thier personal wealth , it wont happen this year but i expect the old age pension to be well below 200 euro per week within three years

fodda

irishh_bob wrote: »

i agree that most people are not prepared to be hit hard in the pocket and thats why i believe that any referendum put to us will pass , we will hand over complete economic soverignty to the germans if it means the sentence is less severe than leaving the euro

Then be prepared to be worse off than if you went it alone, you and your children will be enslaved.

irishh_bob

fodda wrote: »

Then be prepared to be worse off than if you went it alone, you and your children will be enslaved.

im opposed to further european integration , i want ireland to leave the euro

bbam

irishh_bob wrote: »

i agree that most people are not prepared to be hit hard in the pocket and thats why i believe that any referendum put to us will pass , we will hand over complete economic soverignty to the germans if it means the sentence is less severe than leaving the euro

Yes but do people really believe that the Germans will act in the best interest of the Irish public??
They already hold the perifearary (the ones round the edge) countries responsible for the whole mess... They have sold this to their voters, if they get economic power over our budgets it will be like famine times here again.. They'll beat us down to satisfy their voters showing that we are paying for the problems we caused...

Turnstyle

IMO whether the Euro stays, falls apart or morphs into something like a two speed Euro it will be decided by Germany. Whatever happens the German economy will take a hit but I reckon they are actually going to be the first ones to leave the Euro in the new year... Central control of Budgets and Taxation across Europe will be two hard to implement, too slow to implement (the boat has been missed) and to hard to sell to some voters in referendum. The Irish would vote yes but the French would more than likely burn Paris down.
I think if we left the Euro (whether it survives or not) it would be the best option for us (farmers especially), there would be tough years up front but in fifteen years time Ireland could have a strong little economy on the edge of Europe backed up with some real industries. The Euro in its current form is too expensive for Ireland, we simply do not have enough Industry to back it up

Tipp Man

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that if Ireland left the EUR it would have a blossoming economy in 15 years time

Lets face it, Ireland has no natural resources bar it's land. And while agri is very important it nowhere near big enough to carry the economy. It would want to be about 10 times larger before we could even think that it would be big enough to carry the economy.

so then you look at natural resources - we have no oil, no coal, barely enough gas for ourselves, no precious metals, we have feck all in fact

Then lets look at the industries based in Ireland. Without the EUR would the multinationals still want to be part of Ireland? Baring in mind that if Ireland leaves the EUR they may have taken a substantial hit on their Irish operations already. Most have moved their money out of Ireland already so it wouldn't be that difficult for them to shut up shop altogether if they felt that way inclined. Of course wages would be dramatically lower which would be a good thing. But they'd want to be - our current unemployment rate is 14.5% and rising. The only thing stopping it for hitting 20% or more is we are fond of travelling

Also while the EUR is in trouble it is worth noting that plenty of economies around the world who have their own currencies, their own monetary and fiscal policies etc are in trouble (UK and USA) and others like Japan have been in the doldrums for years, japan for more than 20 years now. What makes people think that Ireland is so special that if it was on its own it would emerge from this mess any stronger? Certainly i see nothing in the fundamentals of this economy to suggest that we would be any better off out of EUR. Our fundamentals are all wrong - a complete mess - irregardless of the EUR, the banks etc

Also lets put the EUR "crisis" in context.

Today 1 EUR is worth US$ 1.34, on 30 Nov 2005 it was 1 EUR to US$ 1.17 and on 28 Nov 2003 it was US$1.19

Today 1 EUR is worth GBP 0.85, on 30 Nov 2005 it was 1 EUR to GBP 0.68 and on 28 Nov 2003 it was GBP 0.69

The EUR is stronger now than it has ever been (in the medium term) against GBP and US$, I find this remarkable for a currency that is about to fold. Of course this is not a guarantee that the EUR will not fold, however it is a sign that it still has strength and might not be as dead as some would seem to suggest

Tipp Man

bbam wrote: »

Yes but do people really believe that the Germans will act in the best interest of the Irish public??
They already hold the perifearary (the ones round the edge) countries responsible for the whole mess... They have sold this to their voters, if they get economic power over our budgets it will be like famine times here again.. They'll beat us down to satisfy their voters showing that we are paying for the problems we caused...

i'm afraid that you are hiding from the reality of the situation in Ireland - regardless of the Germans having power over us or not we need to dramatically reduce government expenditure - by about 40% and we need to do it pretty quickly.

whether the Germans are calling the shots or not - this is a fact. the question is have we as a nation the balls to take control of this situation ourselves? My feeling is no we don't

Turnstyle

I think Ireland making a decision to leave the Euro would be a way of taking control of our own future..
Ireland with a cheaper currency would be on the edge of Europe with cheap wages, cheap exports, more of a demand on produce farmed in Ireland as opposed to more expensive imports, a cheaper and more desirable tourism destination. It may be damaging to an extent on some established multinational that are already here but think of the ones we could attract.. this would all have to go hand in hand with public expenditure cuts but it looks like a prospect for some growth as opposed to what we currently face.. keep borrowing to pay for sh1t we cant afford and never could in reality afford.
There is a contradiction in how you compare the value of currencies with what you are stating about other countries even with their own independent currency being effected.. this depression is worldwide

Tipp Man

Turnstyle wrote: »

There is a contradiction in how you compare the value of currencies with what you are stating about other countries even with their own independent currency being effected.. this depression is worldwide

can you explain this contradiction further?? I don't see it

Turnstyle

Tipp Man wrote: »

can you explain this contradiction further?? I don't see it

we are all on the Titanic its just some are sitting up front and some down the back.. either way, the current value of the Euro has little to do with Ireland and that is my point

CJhaughey

Tipp Man wrote: »

Lets face it, Ireland has no natural resources bar it's land. And while agri is very important it nowhere near big enough to carry the economy. It would want to be about 10 times larger before we could even think that it would be big enough to carry the economy.

so then you look at natural resources - we have no oil, no coal, barely enough gas for ourselves, no precious metals, we have feck all in fact

Ahem, We have massive fish resources and were we to leave the EU we could finally realise the value of them.
In fact in our 200 mile EEZ we would have the most productive waters in Europe.
We could always sell licenses in the short term for other countries to fish our waters and longer term build our fleet and coastal infrastructure back up.

Turnstyle

CJhaughey wrote: »

Ahem, We have massive fish resources and were we to leave the EU we could finally realise the value of them.
In fact in our 200 mile EEZ we would have the most productive waters in Europe.
We could always sell licenses in the short term for other countries to fish our waters and longer term build our fleet and coastal infrastructure back up.

Good point but i think the Op was discussing if Ireland were to leave the Euro as opposed to the EU entirely which would be a whole different kettle of fishes

Tipp Man

Turnstyle wrote: »

we are all on the Titanic its just some are sitting up front and some down the back.. either way, the current value of the Euro has little to do with Ireland and that is my point

The reason i showed the historic exchange rates was to highlight that the EUR might not be as fecked as people think. It is still stronger than the US$ and GBP - it is worth more US$ and GBP than it was in 2005. I was not using it from an Irish point of view

Tipp Man

CJhaughey wrote: »

Ahem, We have massive fish resources and were we to leave the EU we could finally realise the value of them.
In fact in our 200 mile EEZ we would have the most productive waters in Europe.
We could always sell licenses in the short term for other countries to fish our waters and longer term build our fleet and coastal infrastructure back up.

My post was in the context of leaving the EUR not the EU

CJhaughey

Tipp Man wrote: »

My post was in the context of leaving the EUR not the EU

Fair enough, but my point is that Ireland is not without natural resources.

Tipp Man

CJhaughey wrote: »

Fair enough, but my point is that Ireland is not without natural resources.

and what realistic amount could Ireland hope to get annually from selling the licences?? (assuming it had complete control over fisheries) (have very little knowledge of the fishing industry)

fodda

Tipp Man wrote: »

and what realistic amount could Ireland hope to get annually from selling the licences?? (assuming it had complete control over fisheries) (have very little knowledge of the fishing industry)

Falkland Islands do quite well from selling fishing licences i believe.

Tipp Man

fodda wrote: »

Falkland Islands do quite well from selling fishing licences i believe.

they have 3,000 people on the Falklands - we have 4.5 million

BeeDI

Tipp Man wrote: »

My post was in the context of leaving the EUR not the EU

Our little piddly pooh, navy don't gave enough resources to police lough Allen, never mind our total fishing waters. The Spanish and French fishing boats, would absolutely run rings around us, in the event of us closing access.

fodda

BeeDI wrote: »

Our little piddly pooh, navy don't gave enough resources to police lough Allen, never mind our total fishing waters. The Spanish and French fishing boats, would absolutely run rings around us, in the event of us closing access.

What if the fishing licences were sold to british or french fishing boats? Waters would be protected then wouldnt they.....free of charge:)

johnpawl

Lads just wondering, if you walk into the bank and get a sterling draft, is that money then immediately converted to sterling pounds and as such immune to all the problems associated with leaving your money in the bank here ie. reverting to the punt, devaluing etc?

99nsr125

irishh_bob wrote: »

leaving the euro would be very painfull for a few years but at least we would be masters of our own destiny going forward , we fought long and hard for independance , it would be a crime to give it away so cheaply

I don't want to get into a big discussion but
I'd just like to say being independent/sovereign
is pointless If you can't feed your children or heat you house.

The Euro is not the problem, Austria, Holland etc don't have
the problems we have, we managed to nearly bankrupt ourselves
in 1978 and we had our own currency, interest rate setting central
bank and so on then.

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that if Ireland left the EUR it would have a blossoming economy in 15 years time

Lets face it, Ireland has no natural resources bar it's land. And while agri is very important it nowhere near big enough to carry the economy. It would want to be about 10 times larger before we could even think that it would be big enough to carry the economy.

so then you look at natural resources - we have no oil, no coal, barely enough gas for ourselves, no precious metals, we have feck all in fact

Then lets look at the industries based in Ireland. Without the EUR would the multinationals still want to be part of Ireland? Baring in mind that if Ireland leaves the EUR they may have taken a substantial hit on their Irish operations already. Most have moved their money out of Ireland already so it wouldn't be that difficult for them to shut up shop altogether if they felt that way inclined. Of course wages would be dramatically lower which would be a good thing. But they'd want to be - our current unemployment rate is 14.5% and rising. The only thing stopping it for hitting 20% or more is we are fond of travelling

Also while the EUR is in trouble it is worth noting that plenty of economies around the world who have their own currencies, their own monetary and fiscal policies etc are in trouble (UK and USA) and others like Japan have been in the doldrums for years, japan for more than 20 years now. What makes people think that Ireland is so special that if it was on its own it would emerge from this mess any stronger? Certainly i see nothing in the fundamentals of this economy to suggest that we would be any better off out of EUR. Our fundamentals are all wrong - a complete mess - irregardless of the EUR, the banks etc

Also lets put the EUR "crisis" in context.

Today 1 EUR is worth US$ 1.34, on 30 Nov 2005 it was 1 EUR to US$ 1.17 and on 28 Nov 2003 it was US$1.19

Today 1 EUR is worth GBP 0.85, on 30 Nov 2005 it was 1 EUR to GBP 0.68 and on 28 Nov 2003 it was GBP 0.69

The EUR is stronger now than it has ever been (in the medium term) against GBP and US$, I find this remarkable for a currency that is about to fold. Of course this is not a guarantee that the EUR will not fold, however it is a sign that it still has strength and might not be as dead as some would seem to suggest

why are the multinations here primarily = for our english speaking workforce and our low corporation tax rate , were we to become a mere colony of a european superstate , we,d still have the english but you could kiss bye bye to the corporation tax of 12.5% , not only that , by leaving the euro , our wage costs would be reduced , further incentivising the beloved multinationals

fodda

99nsr125 wrote: »

I don't want to get into a big discussion but
I'd just like to say being independent/sovereign
is pointless If you can't feed your children or heat you house.

The Euro is not the problem, Austria, Holland etc don't have
the problems we have, we managed to nearly bankrupt ourselves
in 1978 and we had our own currency, interest rate setting central
bank and so on then.

So you think that by stopping with the EU and euro that Fritz and Herman are going to go to work hard to hand over lots of their wages to pay for Paddy and Roisin to have a nice comfortable living drinking guinness and putting their kids through Uni?:)........Get over it!......Its gone forever!....It aint never going to happen again!

Why do you think they are going to do that? ......... They are going to demand massive payback from now on.

You will lose all tax benefits which have bought in Jobs like corporation tax reductions and you are going to be taxed with interest like their is no tomorrow.....you will be enslaved for a life time like having a crippling mortgage and working all your life just to pay it off with nothing at the end, it will be a miserable existance with those at the top grinning from ear to ear tweaking a bit more and a bit more each budget time for their masters.

djmc

johnpawl wrote: »

Lads just wondering, if you walk into the bank and get a sterling draft, is that money then immediately converted to sterling pounds and as such immune to all the problems associated with leaving your money in the bank here ie. reverting to the punt, devaluing etc?

People worried about their money and banks in bad times usually but stocks in gold as its not affected by currency being devalued or banks going bust.
That is why gold is at an all time high and they had ads on telly looking to buy unwanted gold jewelery to melt down.

bbam

fodda wrote: »

You will lose all tax benefits which have bought in Jobs like corporation tax reductions and you are going to be taxed with interest like their is no tomorrow.....you will be enslaved for a life time like having a crippling mortgage and working all your life just to pay it off with nothing at the end, it will be a miserable existance with those at the top grinning from ear to ear tweaking a bit more and a bit more each budget time for their masters.

I think that's a likely story...
What can be done to avoid it ??
Sod all,
If we leave the EU & EURO what is to stop them taxing our exports as a rouge defaulting country??
Can we have enough trade with the UK to keep us going??

I haven't heard one idea from experts or crackpots that I feel would work to our benifet

We either pay the debts mounted on us or become a second world country.. Is there a middle ground ??

fodda

bbam wrote: »

I think that's a likely story...

You think so?.......They have already said that low corporation tax in Ireland should be the same as other EU countries
You spent your own money and everybody elses in the boom years and now you have to pay it back with interest that is why lots of tax's and levi's have been introduced and raised.

Wages and benefits will come into line with other countries which means lowering them on top of tax increases which is happening

What can be done to avoid it ??

Sod all,

.....Wrong...See Iceland!

If we leave the EU & EURO what is to stop them taxing our exports as a rouge defaulting country??

If any country adopts that kind of protectionism it is self defeating as it is done tit for tat back to the origional country.......so it wont happen.

Can we have enough trade with the UK to keep us going??

Dunno but its a start as the UK and Europe cant really feed itself and needs Irelands food and natural resources.

I haven't heard one idea from experts or crackpots that I feel would work to our benifet

We either pay the debts mounted on us or become a second world country.. Is there a middle ground ??

Again see Iceland.

johngalway

fodda wrote: »

.....Wrong...See Iceland!

Again see Iceland.

You need to do further research on Iceland and the effects on it's population of their actions. I would not like to have to go through what they did, and stll are.

fodda

johngalway wrote: »

You need to do further research on Iceland and the effects on it's population of their actions. I would not like to have to go through what they did, and stll are.

Quite true John but if the euro collapsed tomorrow what do you think happens? ....we all carry on as normal?


Essential staff may not go to work cause their wages are useless and no back up currency is in place.....or is it?

Is Irelands army big enough to take over?

Other near countries seem to have prepared for this according to this report...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8917077/Prepare-for-riots-in-euro-collapse-Foreign-Office-warns.html

Has Ireland?

99nsr125

fodda wrote: »

So you think that by stopping with the EU and euro that Fritz and Herman are going to go to work hard to hand over lots of their wages to pay for Paddy and Roisin to have a nice comfortable living drinking guinness and putting their kids through Uni?:)........Get over it!......Its gone forever!....It aint never going to happen again!

I don't and never did

fodda wrote: »

Why do you think they are going to do that? ......... They are going to demand massive payback from now on.

You will lose all tax benefits which have bought in Jobs like corporation tax reductions and you are going to be taxed with interest like their is no tomorrow.....you will be enslaved for a life time like having a crippling mortgage and working all your life just to pay it off with nothing at the end, it will be a miserable existance with those at the top grinning from ear to ear tweaking a bit more and a bit more each budget time for their masters.

Anyone who lends money expects it to be returned otherwise it's charity.

Everyone was painted into a corner when the government chose to support
the different banks, that money could've been used to cover our deficit until
we got back to a balanced budget. We would have remained sovereign but that chance is gone.

If we balance the budget we'll be able to repay the IMF and control all
our own affairs as we see fit including debt relief for mortgage holders
and so on but until we get there we all need to eat and stay warm which means
getting the line of credit from the IMF with their conditions.

johngalway

fodda wrote: »

Quite true John but if the euro collapsed tomorrow what do you think happens? ....we all carry on as normal?

No, but I never said that either

If the currency is to be split in two we'll be in the weaker group. In that case, we may be as well getting out.

Otherwise, if the currency is to stick together, we're better inside it now than on the outside. I've said all along, the longer we get to get our house in order, then the less dramatic and painful any changes will be.

If it flat out collapses, well, that's that then, everyone will be in the sh1t. It won't just be a European problem.

reilig

I was reading a thread on another forum where several of the posters are expressing their delight with the demise of the euro and wishing it on. One lady owes 35k on a credit card. Her exact words are "I hope the Euro goes down the swanny fast, that way, the €35,000 that I owe on my credit card to @%&£$ will be wiped out and I can rebuild my life debt free"

It must be great to be thick!!

whelan1

jesus 35k on the credit card, thought i was bad....makes me feel good

theaceofspies

whelan1 wrote: »

jesus 35k on the credit card, thought i was bad....makes me feel good

If Euro falls anarchy awaits. Do you think that a lad who would lose €30k savings in a deposit account is going to pay back the bank the €100k he owns on a mortgage:D
It will be a free for all and society/order would break down.

KCTK

theaceofspies wrote: »

If Euro falls anarchy awaits. Do you think that a lad who would lose €30k savings in a deposit account is going to pay back the bank the €100k he owns on a mortgage:D
It will be a free for all and society/order would break down.

Afraid thats not how it'll work, if Euro fails it just means another currency will have to be substituted in it's place, be that a Mark, a Punt, Sterling etc and then everything that is currently valued in Euro's will be retranslated into this currency. Could cause a long term depression but it's not like we are going to return to the stone age and live as hunter gatherers the morning after Euro goes!!!

johngalway

theaceofspies wrote: »

If Euro falls anarchy awaits. Do you think that a lad who would lose €30k savings in a deposit account is going to pay back the bank the €100k he owns on a mortgage:D
It will be a free for all and society/order would break down.

I don't know about that. A question was asked on radio this morning about tracker mortgages, what would happen to them in the event of Ireland leaving the Euro, much the same as a collapse I suppose because the answer was the rate would then be put back onto whatever currency we'd have which could would have a much higher interest rate.

theaceofspies

KCTK wrote: »

Afraid thats not how it'll work, if Euro fails it just means another currency will have to be substituted in it's place, be that a Mark, a Punt, Sterling etc and then everything that is currently valued in Euro's will be retranslated into this currency. Could cause a long term depression but it's not like we are going to return to the stone age and live as hunter gatherers the morning after Euro goes!!!

The flight of deposits to foreign currencies/Gold would contradict this; these depositors are either fearing a total collapse or significant devaluation of the Euro? Ultimately NOBODY knows what awaits but it sure ain't going to be pretty... what was that about a soft landing?:eek:

KCTK

theaceofspies wrote: »

The flight of deposits to foreign currencies/Gold would contradict this; these depositors are either fearing a total collapse or significant devaluation of the Euro? Ultimately NOBODY knows what awaits but it sure ain't going to be pretty... what was that about a soft landing?:eek:

Maybe they are fearing a significant devaluation of the Euro but still the US, UK and Japan are not exactly booming ahead, hence that fact the euro is still trading around $1.35 0.86pSTG so the flight to foreign currencies is not exactly that drastic. Gold is up significantly on a few years ago but will this hold/go higher or is this maybe where the "soft landing" will occur...

Agree nobody knows and it definately won't be pretty if/when Euro goes flop.