Farming if the euro goes

fodda

reilig wrote: »

I was reading a thread on another forum where several of the posters are expressing their delight with the demise of the euro and wishing it on. One lady owes 35k on a credit card. Her exact words are "I hope the Euro goes down the swanny fast, that way, the €35,000 that I owe on my credit card to @%&£$ will be wiped out and I can rebuild my life debt free"

It must be great to be thick!!

35 grand on a card :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I must have lived a sheltered life........is this the norm with people or what?

Muckit

fodda wrote: »

35 grand on a card :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I must have lived a sheltered life........is this the norm with people or what?

I was reading in the indo today that money put on credit cards has never been as low as the month just gone.

blue5000

KCTK wrote: »

Maybe they are fearing a significant devaluation of the Euro but still the US, UK and Japan are not exactly booming ahead, hence that fact the euro is still trading around $1.35 0.86pSTG so the flight to foreign currencies is not exactly that drastic. Gold is up significantly on a few years ago but will this hold/go higher or is this maybe where the "soft landing" will occur...

Agree nobody knows and it definately won't be pretty if/when Euro goes flop.

Think it's closer to 1.25 this evening.

reilig

fodda wrote: »

35 grand on a card :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I must have lived a sheltered life........is this the norm with people or what?

It was on the moneymatters forum. I'm sure it would be easy to build up 10k on a card and then if you didn't pay it off the interest would build very fast.
I have a Eur1200 limit on my card, thank god. Thinking strongly about cutting it up.

pakalasa

I find credit cards great for record keeping. You just flick though the statements to see when you bought something. Have it on direct debit so I never forget to pay. I never once paid a cent in interest....Mr sensible here.;)

Atilathehun

reilig wrote: »

It was on the moneymatters forum. I'm sure it would be easy to build up 10k on a card and then if you didn't pay it off the interest would build very fast.
I have a Eur1200 limit on my card, thank god. Thinking strongly about cutting it up.

I have a €6,400 credit limit on mine:D Never once looked for a stupid limit like that, but it was increased from €1,000 three or four times during the credit boom, by BOI, without my asking.
Wouldn't mind, but biggest amount I ever spent I would think, would be a few hundred euro.
However, I got a statement couple of weeks ago, and nearly dropped when I read it. Two tranactions each slightly over €1550 had been debited and credited again one day later:o I knew I hadn't done any such tranaction.
I called the bank, put me through to fraud section. They looked at it, and casually told me these were fraudulant transactions, which were caught by the security system, and reversed.
Most likely they told me, I had bought something, in the past from a given merchant, whose website had been hacked into, and customer credit card details stolen:( These details then used by scammers, to purchase goods and services.
Really, really makes you wonder about the whole system!

Then you read this stuff about how we are being tracked and recorded and you really, really, really wonder who has your private details, http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1201/breaking39.html

KCTK

blue5000 wrote: »

Think it's closer to 1.25 this evening.

Closed at 1.3492 yesterday so not sure where you saw 1.25, maybe its what one of the banks are offering to sell dollars at and make an absolute killing on the FX!!!!

fodda

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15997416

Something which may be of interest to some of you......John;):)

johngalway

fodda wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15997416

Something which may be of interest to some of you......John;):)

Many countries enjoy economic booms, but, remember the conditions where they have come from.

We, currently, have very big problems, but, we also have an awful lot of services and luxuries that are not just enjoyed but taken as granted as a right.

<This> is what Argentina has emerged from, want that? I don't, and I bet there are still many multiple of extremely basic problems there yet that we would be horrified at.

fodda

johngalway wrote: »

Many countries enjoy economic booms, but, remember the conditions where they have come from.

We, currently, have very big problems, but, we also have an awful lot of services and luxuries that are not just enjoyed but taken as granted as a right.

<This> is what Argentina has emerged from, want that? I don't, and I bet there are still many multiple of extremely basic problems there yet that we would be horrified at.

I agree but can you knock it in to the people in this country that no matter where we go it aint never be like anything like it was ever again and being as we are in a farming section that any kind of assistance/grants et will soon disappear for ever..........even if you were to stay in the EU...........it was all borrowed money, in one way or another it was borrowed and the end is now here...............I'm such a little ray of sunshine;):)

theaceofspies

It sounds like we are being softened up for another "Lisbon Treaty". You would almost start thinking that this crisis is being artificially created in order to centralise control in Brussels. Wonder what they will promise this time... more jobs:D

KCTK

theaceofspies wrote: »

It sounds like we are being softened up for another "Lisbon Treaty". You would almost start thinking that this crisis is being artificially created in order to centralise control in Brussels. Wonder what they will promise this time... more jobs:D

We all laughed at Jim Corr, is it by fluke or what that his ramblimgs now don't look like ramblings anymore....

fodda

theaceofspies wrote: »

It sounds like we are being softened up for another "Lisbon Treaty". You would almost start thinking that this crisis is being artificially created in order to centralise control in Brussels. Wonder what they will promise this time... more jobs:D

Yeah looks like it and a great distraction because no matter how they play it all that dosh that everybody owes has still got to be repaid........By Us!!!!.............so nowts changed then..........but they will have a hold of you for the rest of your life if you vote for it.

irishh_bob

theaceofspies wrote: »

It sounds like we are being softened up for another "Lisbon Treaty". You would almost start thinking that this crisis is being artificially created in order to centralise control in Brussels. Wonder what they will promise this time... more jobs:D

id go one further , you would think the ECB ( GERMANY ) knew what the irish were like when it comes to property , that we would bankrupt ourselves with debt if we only got access to cheap credit which the germans were only to happy to provide , thus eventually setting things up for a rescue which only germany could provide , i.e , complete control of our budgets and economic system

fodda

irishh_bob wrote: »

id go one further , you would think the ECB ( GERMANY ) knew what the irish were like when it comes to property , that we would bankrupt ourselves with debt if we only got access to cheap credit which the germans were only to happy to provide , thus eventually setting things up for a rescue which only germany could provide , i.e , complete control of our budgets and economic system

And assets.......food, water, potential energy, renewables as Germany is closing down its nukes.

theaceofspies

It's all starting to look like a Trojan Horse to me lads.
At least the current Government will give them all the assistance they need in their endevours:eek:
"Romantic Ireland is dead and gone; it's with O'Leary in the grave"

irishh_bob

theaceofspies wrote: »

It's all starting to look like a Trojan Horse to me lads.
At least the current Government will give them all the assistance they need in their endevours:eek:
"Romantic Ireland is dead and gone; it's with O'Leary in the grave"

indeed it is , im amazed the number of people who shrug thier shoulders at the idea of HANZ running the place for us , sure we couldnt do it ourselves is the usual answer , what idiot said the younger generation were more self confident , materialism is the new religon nowadays , forget nationalism , as long as wages and wellfare are untouched , were happy to roll out the red carpet for the foreign overlords

theaceofspies

Don't want to thread into something too subjective but disregarding the motives of the Germans the real story of Irelands demise has been the BETRAYAL by of it's own by it's own. To me this is the real story and echos of this litter our history all the way back to the failed rebellion of 1798.

This is the Irish tragedy as there are some great people on this island but the masses have a habit honouring/abiding embeciles and gangsters.

johngalway

fodda wrote: »

I agree but can you knock it in to the people in this country that no matter where we go it aint never be like anything like it was ever again and being as we are in a farming section that any kind of assistance/grants et will soon disappear for ever..........even if you were to stay in the EU...........it was all borrowed money, in one way or another it was borrowed and the end is now here...............I'm such a little ray of sunshine;):)

Knock it into who? Most people I know offline know already hard times are with us and more coming down the line, because they're living them. But things here are still infinitely better than in some parts of the world. We're great moaners.

As for grants going, I wouldn't go so far as that. They will be reduced and changed, which I don't necessarily agree with. But the Euro crisis, which is looking today likely to be given a second chance, should be separated from the EU. If the Euro were to go, it doesn't automatically follow the EU goes. We had grants etc. well before the Euro was ever traded.

6600

theaceofspies wrote: »

"Romantic Ireland is dead and gone; it's with O'Leary in the grave"

Michael_O_Leary_Ry_1208663i.jpg


No, he's still here ^ ^

fodda

johngalway wrote: »

Knock it into who? Most people I know offline know already hard times are with us and more coming down the line, because they're living them. But things here are still infinitely better than in some parts of the world. We're great moaners.

As for grants going, I wouldn't go so far as that. They will be reduced and changed, which I don't necessarily agree with. But the Euro crisis, which is looking today likely to be given a second chance, should be separated from the EU. If the Euro were to go, it doesn't automatically follow the EU goes. We had grants etc. well before the Euro was ever traded.

Euro second chance?.......I doubt it cause the debt is still there.

Grants and subsidies before the euro?......Yes going back almost 60 years in some countries.

But the money paid into the EU has all gone and the countries paying it in couldnt afford to do it then and they certainly cant afford to pay it in now.

As regards agriculture and forestry........It's boom time! and will be for many years so why would you think the general public of EU countries would stand for giving money towards people in a boom industry when they cant afford medical care or pensions never mind a job?

sparksfly

I think its time farmers became real business people, not beggars any longer.

Single farm payments, reps, green diesel, farmers pensions, no commercial rates etc. etc.

Taxpayers are screwed by social welfare cheats, public service greed and a farm "industry" living on handouts.
This argument of keeping out cheap foreign imports does not wash any more, irish farmers are 10% as effecient as those in Holland.
Every other irish manufacturing industry has the same competition and has to up its game to survive, with very little state help.
Wealthy farmers (in many cases) getting handouts paid for by workers who cannot afford to heat their homes is absurd.

Its time to stop this scandal.

pakalasa

.....

redzerologhlen

sparksfly wrote: »

I think its time farmers became real business people, not beggars any longer.

Single farm payments, reps, green diesel, farmers pensions, no commercial rates etc. etc.

Taxpayers are screwed by social welfare cheats, public service greed and a farm "industry" living on handouts.
This argument of keeping out cheap foreign imports does not wash any more, irish farmers are 10% as effecient as those in Holland.
Every other irish manufacturing industry has the same competition and has to up its game to survive, with very little state help.
Wealthy farmers (in many cases) getting handouts paid for by workers who cannot afford to heat their homes is absurd.

Its time to stop this scandal.

Beggars me arse. 95% of farmers would be glad to wave bye bye to the subsidy's if they got a proper price for their produce and it would be for the better, Nobody will dispute that. Subsidy's were a bad idea from day one, If it wasnt for them we would be still making the same money now as I think they have a direct impact on the price of produce. People will have to eat so food will have to be produced. Farmers didnt make this situation for themselves!!!

As for Irish farmers only being 10% as effecient as those in Holland....Proof???

fodda

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Beggars me arse. 95% of farmers would be glad to wave bye bye to the subsidy's if they got a proper price for their produce and it would be for the better, Nobody will dispute that. Subsidy's were a bad idea from day one, If it wasnt for them we would be still making the same money now as I think they have a direct impact on the price of produce. People will have to eat so food will have to be produced. Farmers didnt make this situation for themselves!!!

As for Irish farmers only being 10% as effecient as those in Holland....Proof???

I suppose you have to define "proper price for your produce" and explain why you think you do not get this price?

johngalway

sparksfly wrote: »

I think its time farmers became real business people, not beggars any longer.

Single farm payments, reps, green diesel, farmers pensions, no commercial rates etc. etc.

Taxpayers are screwed by social welfare cheats, public service greed and a farm "industry" living on handouts.
This argument of keeping out cheap foreign imports does not wash any more, irish farmers are 10% as effecient as those in Holland.
Every other irish manufacturing industry has the same competition and has to up its game to survive, with very little state help.
Wealthy farmers (in many cases) getting handouts paid for by workers who cannot afford to heat their homes is absurd.

Its time to stop this scandal.

Pay what food really costs then matey, see how ya like it

YOUR grocery budget is subsidised.

redzerologhlen

fodda wrote: »

I suppose you have to define "proper price for your produce" and explain why you think you do not get this price?

Fair point fodda. When I say a proper price for produce what I mean is a price that would make it viable from a financial point of view to produce it. I will give you an example. Suckler farmer with 52 cows is selling weanlings and after costs is making 300 euro a head. Thats 15600 euro of a wage for the year. Same farmer is drawing 15000 in subsidy's at the moment. If the same farmer could make 300 more per calf he could make a living from just his livestock. I know the figures could be higher or lower but its just an example. Everyone knows what farmers are earning. The processors and co-op's and multinationals will only pay so much while farming is subsidised as they know farmers are still making a living. What im saying is if subsidy's went in the morning through out europe well people will still have to eat wont they and farmers will still have to make a living so there has to be a happy medium there somewhere. It would be the transition period that I would be afraid of.

redzerologhlen

johngalway wrote: »

YOUR grocery budget is subsidised.

You said it better in 5 words than I did in 500 John:)

fodda

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Fair point fodda. When I say a proper price for produce what I mean is a price that would make it viable from a financial point of view to produce it. I will give you an example. Suckler farmer with 52 cows is selling weanlings and after costs is making 300 euro a head. Thats 15600 euro of a wage for the year. Same farmer is drawing 15000 in subsidy's at the moment. If the same farmer could make 300 more per calf he could make a living from just his livestock. I know the figures could be higher or lower but its just an example. Everyone knows what farmers are earning. The processors and co-op's and multinationals will only pay so much while farming is subsidised as they know farmers are still making a living. What im saying is if subsidy's went in the morning through out europe well people will still have to eat wont they and farmers will still have to make a living so there has to be a happy medium there somewhere. It would be the transition period that I would be afraid of.

I know i am gonna get hammered here so before i start i believe that as regards food then no food that the country produces should be imported unless there is a shortfall in this country of that particular food.............Also i believe that any food produced in this country should be produced organically and to the highest possible standard and if any farmer cannot do that 24/7 365 days of the year he then looses the license to produce food.......then any food which maybe imported here would have to be of the same standard...........Doing this would help the health of the population and ensure Ireland as a premium producer of top quality food.......up there with the best if not the best.

The food in the shops may be slightly more expensive (or will it?) but it will be A1.

Any grant and subsidy should be abolished tomorrow morning and any farm which cant produce to those rules or is viable then i am afraid you cant expect everybody else to keep giving their hard earned wages to you whether you have 5 acres or are a multinational.........I know of places with 1 acre which produce tons of organic veg so there is no excuse.

No supermarket or factory is going to be able to import any food unless there is a shortfall and it will have to be the same quality.

At the same time farmers will not be allowed to strike or picket or blockade anything anywhere because they may want higher prices......the price people are prepared to pay will govern the price.

If you think you arent given a fair price because the shops make money from your produce then get a fridge van and sell it at the door, if people prefer to shop in a supermarket then thats their choice.

Get rid of the EU and start again and do it your way.

redzerologhlen

I could be wrong here now fodda but I would imagine that Ireland doesnt import that much food apart from what our climate doesnt suit. Most of our food is exported. Tis a fairly fertile bit of ground this island of ours and we produce way more than we can use, Europe decides what we get for the produce. An acre of growing organic vegatables is a lot of work for one man not to mind if you did this across the country. People would have to leave their office jobs to go thinning weeds:eek:

fodda

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I could be wrong here now fodda but I would imagine that Ireland doesnt import that much food apart from what our climate doesnt suit. Most of our food is exported. Tis a fairly fertile bit of ground this island of ours and we produce way more than we can use, Europe decides what we get for the produce. An acre of growing organic vegatables is a lot of work for one man not to mind if you did this across the country. People would have to leave their office jobs to go thinning weeds:eek:

In 2009, 34,374 tonnes of beef and 1,144 tonnes of lamb were imported into Ireland and as regards chicken:eek:

http://www.knockvicargardener.com/ Polytunnels..........one acre of polytunnels on a Boyle bog.

Whats the point of trying to produce ordinary beef and lamb when you are trying to compete with Brazil and New Zealand?

Also do not forget all the food that comes into the country as processed food in breadcrumbs, in pastry etc.

BeeDI

fodda wrote: »

I know i am gonna get hammered here so before i start i believe that as regards food then no food that the country produces should be imported unless there is a shortfall in this country of that particular food.............Also i believe that any food produced in this country should be produced organically and to the highest possible standard and if any farmer cannot do that 24/7 365 days of the year he then looses the license to produce food.......then any food which maybe imported here would have to be of the same standard...........Doing this would help the health of the population and ensure Ireland as a premium producer of top quality food.......up there with the best if not the best.

The food in the shops may be slightly more expensive (or will it?) but it will be A1.

Any grant and subsidy should be abolished tomorrow morning and any farm which cant produce to those rules or is viable then i am afraid you cant expect everybody else to keep giving their hard earned wages to you whether you have 5 acres or are a multinational.........I know of places with 1 acre which produce tons of organic veg so there is no excuse.

No supermarket or factory is going to be able to import any food unless there is a shortfall and it will have to be the same quality.

At the same time farmers will not be allowed to strike or picket or blockade anything anywhere because they may want higher prices......the price people are prepared to pay will govern the price.

If you think you arent given a fair price because the shops make money from your produce then get a fridge van and sell it at the door, if people prefer to shop in a supermarket then thats their choice.

Get rid of the EU and start again and do it your way.

Sweet divine, but what are you smoking?

Take beef or dairy products for example. We produce, probably a hundred times than what we could produce, if ate it for breakfast, dinner and supper.
If we unilaterally banned imports, say from the UK, our biggest customer for those products, then they would do the same to us.
Now off you trot and try find a market for what UK takes from us.:eek:

Price of milk and beef in this country, would collapse overnight.

Never mind the fact that every thing else produced by the multinational sector, also needs to be exported.
A trade war or tariffs of any kind whatsoever, would extinguish the last remaining candle in the country.

Beedi.

lab man

redzer, you'll have to hold back on the drainage for a while i'd say

redzerologhlen

lab man wrote: »

redzer, you'll have to hold back on the drainage for a while i'd say

Our place is gone beyond drainage after the weather today so tis all the one anyway!!

fodda

BeeDI wrote: »

Sweet divine, but what are you smoking?

Take beef or dairy products for example. We produce, probably a hundred times than what we could produce, if ate it for breakfast, dinner and supper.
If we unilaterally banned imports, say from the UK, our biggest customer for those products, then they would do the same to us.
Now off you trot and try find a market for what UK takes from us.:eek:

Price of milk and beef in this country, would collapse overnight.

Never mind the fact that every thing else produced by the multinational sector, also needs to be exported.
A trade war or tariffs of any kind whatsoever, would extinguish the last remaining candle in the country.

Beedi.

Yes you are correct but you still cant do anything without a grant or subsidy and as John said the shoppers basket is subsidised............by borrowed money.

Like i said i told you i would get hammered............so most of it is just not viable.

redzerologhlen

fodda wrote: »

Yes you are correct but you still cant do anything without a grant or subsidy and as John said the shoppers basket is subsidised............by borrowed money.

Like i said i told you i would get hammered............so most of it is just not viable.

Its funded by the taxpayers money........the borrowed money is funding other things. If the taxpayer doesnt pay it in tax they will pay for it through the produce they buy. Its the only realistic way it can work and at least the city dwellers wont be accusing every farmer in the country of being a beggar.

fodda

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Its funded by the taxpayers money........the borrowed money is funding other things. If the taxpayer doesnt pay it in tax they will pay for it through the produce they buy. Its the only realistic way it can work and at least the city dwellers wont be accusing every farmer in the country of being a beggar.

If the government or every EU government except Germany takes in tax from the tax payer and pays out agricultural grants/subsidies or any other kind to anybody else............and then hasnt got enough money to run the country so has to go and borrow money from elsewhere...........I dont care how you dress it up............its borrowed money.............its money the countries cant afford to pay.

lab man

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Our place is gone beyond drainage after the weather today so tis all the one anyway!!

cats an dogs, tis floating to germany merkel will have to look after us:D

redzerologhlen

fodda wrote: »

If the government or every EU government except Germany takes in tax from the tax payer and pays out agricultural grants/subsidies or any other kind to anybody else............and then hasnt got enough money to run the country so has to go and borrow money from elsewhere...........I dont care how you dress it up............its borrowed money.............its money the countries cant afford to pay.

Its a simple choice

Option number 1.
The E.U continues to pay subsidys to farmers. People continue to get the cheap food which they demand. General public still not satisfied as farmers are beggars blah blah blah.......

Option number 2.
The E.U stops paying subsidys to farmers. Every farmer in the country is not going to be capable of making a living so they rally together and demand more for their produce. People have to pay more for every piece of food they buy so farmers can make a living. General public not happy as they have to pay more for food.

My point is that there is probably 50 different ways to skin a cat but at the end of it you will still end up with a skinned cat. Nobody is going to work all year to look back and see that they made a loss, You wouldnt expect anyone sitting in an office above in Dublin to do it so why should we. The problem is not the farmers but the E.U and equally the consumers who do their shopping in the big multinational supermarkets.

johngalway

Got my hair cut Friday morning. Was asked what I done for a living, sheep farmer. Oh, farmer, ye're coining it at the minute.

I did explain how inputs have raced upwards along with the price of stock. Feed, fertilizer, etc. Not to mention increasing farm theft, from diesel to sheep to scrap to anything else that's not encased in mass concrete, and losing some schemes like REPS.

But people only choose to see one side of the coin. It's easier, anything for an easy life.

fodda

redzerologhlen wrote: »

You wouldnt expect anyone sitting in an office above in Dublin to do it so why should we. The problem is not the farmers but the E.U and equally the consumers who do their shopping in the big multinational supermarkets.

Agreed..........so the example i gave you earlier (where i said i would get hammered) is where a quality product is produced en-mass and is produced or sold for maybe not much more than standard produce anywhere............Those who cant do it are not viable and most likely will not be when grants are removed anyway. Brazil, New Zealand and the like are always going to be able to beat you on price but not quality. (This is how Germany competes with others on their factory goods).

Its just one option/example, maybe a bad one i dont know but as you say its the EU which is the problem.

But the grants/subsidies will most likely go anyway in any situation.

redzerologhlen

fodda wrote: »

Agreed..........so the example i gave you earlier (where i said i would get hammered) is where a quality product is produced en-mass and is produced or sold for maybe not much more than standard produce anywhere............Those who cant do it are not viable and most likely will not be when grants are removed anyway. Brazil, New Zealand and the like are always going to be able to beat you on price but not quality. (This is how Germany competes with others on their factory goods).

Its just one option/example, maybe a bad one i dont know but as you say its the EU which is the problem.

But the grants/subsidies will most likely go anyway in any situation.

Dont even dream of comparing the standards of quality with Irish and brazilian beef.....There will be someone waiting at your door with a shotgun if you do;):D
Brazil has no standards, no traceability, Foot and mouth and everything else imaginable. Do you realise the standards and laws and regulations that Irish farmers actually have to comply with????????

fodda

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Dont even dream of comparing the standards of quality with Irish and brazilian beef.....There will be someone waiting at your door with a shotgun if you do;):D
Brazil has no standards, no traceability, Foot and mouth and everything else imaginable. Do you realise the standards and laws and regulations that Irish farmers actually have to comply with????????

Oh yeah of course and i hope you can see i am on your side!!

If there was a way .....example ......where we as a country could pass a law saying as from January 1st 2012 the country is completely organic, imports and exports...........then you would have a viable reason to force change without as the other poster said tit for tat import/export restrictions.

Bad example but just one way of getting out of the quagmire.

But the EU wouldnt let you do it.

China produces junk but people still buy it........same applies to other countries agricultural products.

Germany produces quality goods.........no shortage of buyers over junk.

BeeDI

fodda wrote: »

Agreed..........so the example i gave you earlier (where i said i would get hammered) is where a quality product is produced en-mass and is produced or sold for maybe not much more than standard produce anywhere............Those who cant do it are not viable and most likely will not be when grants are removed anyway. Brazil, New Zealand and the like are always going to be able to beat you on price but not quality. (This is how Germany competes with others on their factory goods).

Its just one option/example, maybe a bad one i dont know but as you say its the EU which is the problem.

But the grants/subsidies will most likely go anyway in any situation.

no disrespect, but your business plan has more holes than a trawlers net.:o
Not one proposal in your plan makes any sense.
Ban all imports, all good to be produced 100% organically, sell the whole lot door to door in your fridge van, etc, etc,. Any farmer who cannot comply and survive and thrive in this system, loses licence to produce food.
Now I'm cracking up a beer, before the organic taliban police, come to take me away, to the gualag, you have selected for us all.

fodda

BeeDI wrote: »

no disrespect, but your business plan has more holes than a trawlers net.:o
Not one proposal in your plan makes any sense.
Ban all imports, all good to be produced 100% organically, sell the whole lot door to door in your fridge van, etc, etc,. Any farmer who cannot comply and survive and thrive in this system, loses licence to produce food.
Now I'm cracking up a beer, before the organic taliban police, come to take me away, to the gualag, you have selected for us all.

If you had read between the lines it was an example and a way to force something through in your own country:rolleyes:

Perhaps you would like to give us your expert opinion on what we all do?

irishh_bob

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Its funded by the taxpayers money........the borrowed money is funding other things. If the taxpayer doesnt pay it in tax they will pay for it through the produce they buy. Its the only realistic way it can work and at least the city dwellers wont be accusing every farmer in the country of being a beggar.

while its almost a universally accepted truth among farmers to say that if thier were no subsidys , the price of food for the consumer would be way higher , thier is no reason other than convenience on the part of the farmer to make such a correlation , farmers in new zealand dont get paid subs yet food in the supermarket for consumers isnt any more expensive than it is here , farmers usually trot out the line that they would go out of business without subsidys , most free marketeers would say SO WHAT , people go out of business all the time , in new zealand in 1984 when subs were done away with , small and medium farmers went out of business and duly sold thier farms to larger farmers who themselves were forced to scale up , economy of scale is the name of the game in new zealand farming and while thier was undoubtabley a social cost , again the free marketeers would say SO WHAT , it suits the IFA to peddle the line that consumers would have to pay much more for their meat and milk if subsidys were done away with but in reality , thier is no direct corellation , we live in a globalised economy now , long gone are the days when europe was concerned with food security , if half the beef farmers in ireland went out of business in the morning , thier would be hundreds of tonnes of beef queeing up at ports in argentina the next morning , thier are several countries around europe which have a very strong farming lobby , ireland is one of them but france is the big one , supporting farmers is a political descision more than a consumer awareness one , i know il get hammered for this post but dont worry , i dont share theese views in public , i think saying them on an annonymous internet forum should be reasonabley ok and tollerated

rancher

irishh_bob wrote: »

while its almost a universally accepted truth among farmers to say that if thier were no subsidys , the price of food for the consumer would be way higher , thier is no reason other than convenience on the part of the farmer to make such a correlation , farmers in new zealand dont get paid subs yet food in the supermarket for consumers isnt any more expensive than it is here , farmers usually trot out the line that they would go out of business without subsidys , most free marketeers would say SO WHAT , people go out of business all the time , in new zealand in 1984 when subs were done away with , small and medium farmers went out of business and duly sold thier farms to larger farmers who themselves were forced to scale up , economy of scale is the name of the game in new zealand farming and while thier was undoubtabley a social cost , again the free marketeers would say SO WHAT , it suits the IFA to peddle the line that consumers would have to pay much more for their meat and milk if subsidys were done away with but in reality , thier is no direct corellation , we live in a globalised economy now , long gone are the days when europe was concerned with food security , if half the beef farmers in ireland went out of business in the morning , thier would be hundreds of tonnes of beef queeing up at ports in argentina the next morning , thier are several countries around europe which have a very strong farming lobby , ireland is one of them but france is the big one , supporting farmers is a political descision more than a consumer awareness one , i know il get hammered for this post but dont worry , i dont share theese views in public , i think saying them on an annonymous internet forum should be reasonabley ok and tollerated

You're probably right in that no one can contradict you as we can't look into the future and see what would happen if subsidies were stopped...but then neither can you look into the future. As a farmer I no apologies as I have always kept within the rules of the system, but I mightn't agree with whats going on as there are huge inequities even witihin farmers. I am not saying this out of begrudgery as I am the right side of the inequity.
However I have to make a few points on your post.
1/ Beef is now so scarce in argentina that the govt has banned the export of it.
2/ IFA will work hard to keep as many members in business as they can and will make no apologies for that.
3/ Irish farmers bring 2 billion into rural areas from europe that wouldn't otherwise be there, this has to be some benefit, If this money came into the country any other way it would spent around Dublin, closing even more rural hosptals, transport etc.
Agriculture is win win for everyone, 100000 employed in spin off companies etc etc etc

fodda

About 50 billion since 1973 and over 1.8 billion per year .........as you say rancher and you are correct it would most likely be spent elsewhere together with Irelands contribution to its own farmers. But the point is that as we all now know nobody could afford to give it you or will be able to afford it in the future.

From a taxpayers point of view........1.8 billion could pay for an awful lot of medical care!

Your options.........

A greater or lesser Europe:rolleyes::D
Your new currency the "peasants euro" will be worth a lot less than some of the people you sell your produce too which is good............but all of your fuel and everything that uses it (which is basically everything) is going to soar higher than a moon rocket together with your bagged manure. You will not be able to put your price up because you will eventually loose all benefits of the lesser currency and increase imports of cheaper produce into Ireland.

Your costs are always going to be more because other produces do not need winter feed and the sunshines in their country.

Also EU rules made by the "select few" will dictate what you can and cant do to compete the way you want.

Go it alone and leave the EU.

Same as above but at least you can adjust to suit and be in charge of your own destiny. You are able to impose your own controls and standards to allow you to compete with those who are also in charge of their own destiny instead of waiting for an EU directive 5 years too late.

Whatever happens it will be most likely the end of any assistance and those who arent viable in the new world i am afraid it is bye bye.

irishh_bob

rancher wrote: »

You're probably right in that no one can contradict you as we can't look into the future and see what would happen if subsidies were stopped...but then neither can you look into the future. As a farmer I no apologies as I have always kept within the rules of the system, but I mightn't agree with whats going on as there are huge inequities even witihin farmers. I am not saying this out of begrudgery as I am the right side of the inequity.
However I have to make a few points on your post.
1/ Beef is now so scarce in argentina that the govt has banned the export of it.
2/ IFA will work hard to keep as many members in business as they can and will make no apologies for that.
3/ Irish farmers bring 2 billion into rural areas from europe that wouldn't otherwise be there, this has to be some benefit, If this money came into the country any other way it would spent around Dublin, closing even more rural hosptals, transport etc.
Agriculture is win win for everyone, 100000 employed in spin off companies etc etc etc

i dont disagree with you that agriculture is the most important sector in rural ireland and that many spin off sectors rely on it to a huge degree but none of that cancels out my point that thier is no direct correlation between the removal of subsidys and an increased price to the consumer , its IFA spin

BeeDI

irishh_bob wrote: »

i dont disagree with you that agriculture is the most important sector in rural ireland and that many spin off sectors rely on it to a huge degree but none of that cancels out my point that thier is no direct correlation between the removal of subsidys and an increased price to the consumer , its IFA spin

Ok then, let's have the same levels of regulation and paper work as New Zealand. It's simply nothing like what we have over here. Costs of production would fall significantly. Farming is the single most policed industry in Ireland.