Am I Irish?

augustus gloop

great retort on the poster who said he was fed up with ireland and the catholic religion being pushed together OP, you are of course correct in saying that the Catholic religion is an immense factor in shaping what it is to be Irish.

I would be of the opinion that you are Irish. You consider yourself Irish, so really who can tell you that you are not?

Junco Partner

triseke wrote: »

fantastic book. Loved it, and raises some questions about identity and Irishness, in a gentle way.

I only read it recently and laughed on every page literally. it's a strange blend of being deep yet still being hilarious. I am going to have to find the sequel somewhere.

Balmed Out

f0ggy92 wrote: »

I only read it recently and laughed on every page literally. it's a strange blend of being deep yet still being hilarious. I am going to have to find the sequel somewhere.

The road to McCarthy whilst a good book is not on the same level as McCarthys bar. Sadly the author passed away a few years back.

Feisar

Well can we define what it is to be a nationality. Whether Irish, English, French or whichever.

Then we can box people of into nice little pigeon holes.

Do we go by the blood in which case the OP is half Irish and a quarter English and a quarter German or do we say "show us your passport/birth cert?" and go with what's on paper?

working fool

Ur Irish allright !
Now bend over ,, here comes ENDA Kenny with a strapon ! Enjoy :-)

Big Nasty

You're not English, you're not Irish, you're just bleedin' pikey! :pac:

saa

If you're born in Ireland you're Irish If you're born in England you're English?

Hmm reminds me of if you're born a man you're a man if you're born a woman you're a woman end of.. nice little theory but doesn't work out that way for some folk.

Thud

love the way the quality of the posts took a dive when this was moved to AH

in that vain..

Do you like spuds?
Do you wear a remembrance poppie?

old hippy

You can be whoever you want to be.

Neonjack

saa wrote: »

If you're born in Ireland you're Irish If you're born in England you're English?

Hmm reminds me of if you're born a man you're a man if you're born a woman you're a woman end of.. nice little theory but doesn't work out that way for some folk.

Whether it works out or not, the fact remains - If you were born a man, then you are a man by birth, if born a woman, then a woman by birth. The clue is in the word 'born'.

gurramok

Neonjack wrote: »

Whether it works out or not, the fact remains - If you were born a man, then you are a man by birth, if born a woman, then a woman by birth. The clue is in the word 'born'.

The God squad have arrived:rolleyes:

Neonjack

Yeah, I'm famous for my religiousosityness. :rolleyes:

rainbowdrop

Lash_Alert wrote: »

Im actually shocked people are so mixed over this. The op is born and raised in England, hence they are English. The rest doesnt matter, so stop muddying things up.

Born in Ireland = Irish
Born in England = English.

Done.

I was born in Ireland, to Irish parents, but my parent's moved to England with me when I was a baby. My two Brothers were then born in England!

We all went to Catholic schools,
We went to mass every week (I don't care what anyone in this thread say's, being Catholic is a big part of your Irishness if you are living in England), We listened to Irish music,
We ate bacon and cabbage and Irish stew,
We got the 'wooden spoon',
My parent's friends were Irish, mine and my brother's friends mainly had Irish parent's,
All of our summer/Christmas holidays were spent in Ireland.
To our neighbours, we were the 'Irish family at number 23.

My daughter was born in England, and then my whole family moved back 'home' to Ireland 13 years ago! We all have Irish passports and are 100% Irish (I will admit, my accent and the accent of my brothers are a bit of a fcuked up hybrid of English/Irish:P)

By your rationale, my family is split down the middle in terms of nationality, even though we have all had the same (Irish) upbringing and have lived in Ireland just as long as we lived in England. According to you, myself, my Mother and Father are Irish, my two brother's and my daughter are English!

In my opinion, the only people that come out with the BS about 'whatever country you were born in, you are that nationality' are the ones that have never/rarely left this country.

The same people are the ones that gave out years ago about people leaving the country to work for the 'Kings Shilling', but were quite happy to spend the 'Kings Shilling' when it was sent back to Ireland in a money order.

TheZohanS

saa wrote: »

If you're born in Ireland you're Irish If you're born in England you're English?

Hmm reminds me of if you're born a man you're a man if you're born a woman you're a woman end of.. nice little theory but doesn't work out that way for some folk.

I was born in a hospital, does that make me a doctor?

€60 thanks, please call again.

purplepanda

Lash_Alert wrote: »

Contrary to your understanding of how ones nationality is defined, college degree and occupation don't actually determine ones nationality. Also the guy born in Galway is Irish, him saying or believing something else just says he's think.nothing more.


No she's not.she's more Irish than them, because she was actually born in Ireland. People are certainly shaped by many things, but nationality sadly is out of ones hands

Think you have nationality & race, culture & heritage mixed up along the way, being Irish can mean any or all of them.

Your nationality is Irish if you qualify & apply for an Irish passport, that is the law of Ireland. If you personally don't agree with that policy, petition the Irish government. :rolleyes:

Lash_Alert

The Scientician wrote: »

If you feel Irish, and want to be Irish, then have at it, you're Irish.

You're an idiot.

Lash_Alert

gurramok wrote: »

So i'm English then? As you know from my post history, i'm more Irish than you ever will be.

How exactly? Brave statement considering you know nothing about me

Lash_Alert

rainbowdrop wrote: »

I was born in Ireland, to Irish parents, but my parent's moved to England with me when I was a baby. My two Brothers were then born in England!

We all went to Catholic schools,
We went to mass every week (I don't care what anyone in this thread say's, being Catholic is a big part of your Irishness if you are living in England), We listened to Irish music,
We ate bacon and cabbage and Irish stew,
We got the 'wooden spoon',
My parent's friends were Irish, mine and my brother's friends mainly had Irish parent's,
All of our summer/Christmas holidays were spent in Ireland.
To our neighbours, we were the 'Irish family at number 23.

My daughter was born in England, and then my whole family moved back 'home' to Ireland 13 years ago! We all have Irish passports and are 100% Irish (I will admit, my accent and the accent of my brothers are a bit of a fcuked up hybrid of English/Irish:P)

By your rationale, my family is split down the middle in terms of nationality, even though we have all had the same (Irish) upbringing and have lived in Ireland just as long as we lived in England. According to you, myself, my Mother and Father are Irish, my two brother's and my daughter are English!

In my opinion, the only people that come out with the BS about 'whatever country you were born in, you are that nationality' are the ones that have never/rarely left this country.

The same people are the ones that gave out years ago about people leaving the country to work for the 'Kings Shilling', but were quite happy to spend the 'Kings Shilling' when it was sent back to Ireland in a money order.

Why are people getting confused with lifestyle and nationality? I dont care what you had for dinner. I know there is certainly a grey area, i was just being very black and white to show some stupid posters that they were being idiots. You, in my eyes are Irish. So what if there is a divide of nationalities in your family? Not that big a deal. Ps for your information, im very well travelled and educated. As just stated, being very black nd white for the purposes of this thread as its full of grey.

Lash_Alert

purplepanda wrote: »

Think you have nationality & race, culture & heritage mixed up along the way, being Irish can mean any or all of them.

Your nationality is Irish if you qualify & apply for an Irish passport, that is the law of Ireland. If you personally don't agree with that policy, petition the Irish government. :rolleyes:

No, because i dont feel that strongly about it. As i just said, I'm intentionally being blunt and allowing no grey area because people in this thread are only seeing grey area.

BQQ

OP was born in England AND was raised in England AND has lived most of his life in England.

Logical to assume he's English IMO

LordSutch

MiseryCat wrote: »

Your nationality is English because your born in the uk But you have Irish citizenship because you married Irish woman form cork ,you go by your birth cert.

Well actually, if he was born in the UK then he might have been born in Armagh, Cardiff, or Glasgow!

Or maybe was he born in England?

RichieC

steveod wrote: »

I was born in the UK to an Irish Father and an English Mother, who happened to be half German.

I grew up a Catholic and went to catholic school and all of my friends, without exception, are of Irish decent, many of whom refer to Ireland as "home" in spite on never living there.

Unconciously, my indentity was heavily influenced by the Irish culture, and eventually I married a "real" Irish person from Cork and I now live in Ireland albeit for 5 years, which only represents an eighth of my entire life.

I never read Peig at school but I now speak the Irish language better than most Irish people. I have an Irish passport, but I do not know the words to the National Anthem (yet). I have an Irish name, but I do not look Irish.

I don't feel Irish, but I don't feel English. But I've never felt anything other than the way that I feel, so I don't really have any reference points.

Am I Irish? Or to put it another way...an Eirinneach me?

More Irish than me

LordSutch

steveod wrote: »

Not at all, I'm past all that, I have accepted that I am an Irish person with an English background.

It's interesting to hear what an Irish person's perception of being Irish actually is however.

Daniel Day-Lewis and I are similar in this regard, however you'll never hear the Irish Times refer to him as an Irishman or indeed just as Daniel Day-Lewis; it's always Daniel Day-Lewis, Irish Citizen and Wicklow resident. They always stop short of calling him an Irishman. The very fact that they have to make reference to his nationality and is residence suggests that there's an ambiguity about it.

Enda Kenny is never refered to as Enda Kenny (Irishman) as ther is no doubt.

But there is doubt, certainly in the media, about certain individuals' national identity.

You certainly sound like an Irishman, maybe even more Irish than many Irish people born and raised here in Ireland, and you even speak Irish!

PS; The UK is such a vague term, were you actually born in England?

fluff_daddy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You cannot be Irish unless you 'endure' Peig.

:eek: - I never evan heard of Peig

fluff_daddy

My vote is your Irish - Wiki says

Nationality is membership of a nation or sovereign state, usually determined by their citizenship, but sometimes by ethnicity or place of residence, or based on their sense of national identity.

Glassheart

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ignoring the nonsense in that post, to deny that Catholicism isn't part of Irish culture is just nonsense. There is many symbols within in Irish culture which has Catholicism tones to it.

What symbols?

It's almost like you desperately need to believe that Catholicism is still deeply ingrained into every facet of Irish life so you can continue to justify your siege mentality.
I get a bit bored of Loyalists who have probably never set foot south of the border telling us what it means to be Irish.

steveod

Jesus! I only went away from boards for a couple of days; I didn't realise the subject of national identity was such an emotive subject.

LordSutch wrote: »

You certainly sound like an Irishman, maybe even more Irish than many Irish people born and raised here in Ireland, and you even speak Irish!

You wouldnt' say that if you met me; I grew up in the Irish ghettos of East London. Let's say I have something of a cockney twang to my accent.

RachaelVO

steveod wrote: »

Jesus! I only went away from boards for a couple of days; I didn't realise the subject of national identity was such an emotive subject.

You do realise your thread was moved into After Hours, it's all gonna go to sh1te from now on.

RachaelVO

Skid wrote: »

It does, really.

If the main badges of your nationality are the nationalities of your parents and your birthplace, your kids are at least half Dutch.

Possibly, but my husbands mother is half english half dutch... so it's a total fcuk up Which makes their majority half Irish. Not to mention the fact they were planted on Irish soil :eek:

sandmanporto

well lets put it this way, if a an irish born man to chinese parents was asking this question would you consider him more irish than the op just because he was born here??

Solnskaya

You're a blow-in.:D You will remain a blow in until you die, then your kids will be called "the Germans kids" for another generation or two, until, when everyone else around them has lived there for less time, and they have a huge extended family, they will become Irish, and can call others who move in - "blow-ins".:)

steveod

What concerns me about a number of the responses to this thread is the complete disregard for the Diaspora.

A good number of people that I know have lost their jobs and had to up sticks and look for work overseas, and all through no fault of their own.

Of the people that I know who have left, and like the thousands of Irish men and women who left this country in the 50s and 60s for exactly the same reason, the hope to return 'home' one day, once things have improved, will always be there, no matter how long it takes.

And a hell of a lot can happen before things improve (marriage, kids, etc).

Judging from the some of the responses here, it seems there are some people, fortunate enough not have to make the painful decsion to leave their homes and families, who regard those that did leave (and their sons and daughters) as second rate Irish.

And I stress the word fortunate, because you don't get to stay because you excell at something or because you engineered that way; if you did, then you must've know all this was coming; no, you get to stay because you were lucky.

How would you feel if you had to go through the ordeal of leaving the land that you loved to try and make a better life for you and your family only to come home to discover that your entire family we're no longer part of this nation, at least in some people's eyes.

So much for céad míle fáilte.

steveod

RachaelVO wrote: »

You do realise your thread was moved into After Hours, it's all gonna go to sh1te from now on.

If I'd've know about AH, it would've started here.

It's a much more... colourful forum:o

Latchy

steveod wrote: »

What concerns me about a number of the responses to this thread is the complete disregard for the Diaspora.


Judging from the some of the responses here, it seems there are some people, fortunate enough not have to make the painful decsion to leave their homes and families, who regard those that did leave (and their sons and daughters) as second rate Irish.

That's one thing many of the irish abroad don't get ...that as soon as you leave Ireland for different shores you somehow become less Irish because you don't live on the small island of Ireland . Yet many of the same people in Ireland who have that mentality would if put in the same position, drag out and flaunt their Irishness in England ,USA ,Australia etc because like thousends before ,that's your only or main reference point . Anybody who thinks an Irish person living abroad is somehow 'second rate ' because they don't live there is deluded (and might be a concept from the celtic tiger days ) Irish people always sent money home , spent enough on holidays there as well as renewing passports that for one, help keep Irish embassies abroad in business . As a journalist once put it '' we in Ireland where not so much a stripe on the mangy tiger but became it's victim '' .

And I stress the word fortunate, because you don't get to stay because you excell at something or because you engineered that way; if you did, then you must've know all this was coming; no, you get to stay because you were lucky.

With a capital L

How would you feel if you had to go through the ordeal of leaving the land that you loved to try and make a better life for you and your family only to come home to discover that your entire family we're no longer part of this nation, at least in some people's eyes.

Which can also manifest itself in the individual who has lived outside of Ireland for about 10 years or more but on return , is somehow expected to be the same person he or she was when they left their town village or city , when all the expierences of living abroad may have altered and broadened their thinking and outlook completely , compared to how they may have felt or where expected to while living in Ireland .

RachaelVO

steveod wrote: »

If I'd've know about AH, it would've started here.

It's a much more... colourful forum:o

Colourful? Jaysus thats one way of putting it alright. Contrary, offensive, bizarre, smart ars3ed, opinionated... the list is endless, but mostly it can be good craic!

whitesands

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yes it is. It is steeped in Irish culture and the majority of Irish people still follow the Catholic faith.

No it's not, I was born & raised in Dublin so I know better than you what Irish is, I don't need an ulsterman to tell me what I am :rolleyes:

RachaelVO

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAFC
Yes it is. It is steeped in Irish culture and the majority of Irish people still follow the Catholic faith.

whitesands wrote: »

No it's not, I was born & raised in Dublin so I know better than you what Irish is, I don't need an ulsterman to tell me what I am :rolleyes:

Oh Christ on a bike!!!!!!!!!!!

And now the thread descends into b1tchiness!!

Snowie

RachaelVO wrote: »

Oh Christ on a bike!!!!!!!!!!!

blasphemer ?

RachaelVO

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

blasphemer ?

Yep! Not only that but breaking one of the ten commandments :eek:

Snowie

RachaelVO wrote: »

Yep! Not only that but breaking one of the ten commandments :eek:

did you covet one of your friends wives :eek: omg

RachaelVO

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

did you covet one of your friends wives :eek: omg

Sh1t that's two commandments now.

kupus

Steve you're more Irish than most people there.

and what you've gone thru is the norm for most Irish people who had kids living abroad, whether its crinklewood or Yonkers. They want them involved in the Irish community, learning Irish dancing, playing gaa, going to catholic schools cos that's where the rest of the neighborhood kids went. As you get older you start going to Irish bars with your dad etc.... and then you have kids and the circle continues......
So with this new wave of emigration Irish people are going to settle down all over the world and basically have the same upbringing you had,........ so yeah I would consider you Irish, you just have a different accent

Solnskaya

Is that Crinklewood in Lunderen?

Latchy

Another thing to remember is that Irish communitys abroad do more for Irish tourism simply because they will be the first point of contact those tourists will meet and the Irish community, in all their manifestations , don't look for or need the approval of anybody to do so .

policarp

S O'D.
Come home.
Nice cup of tea waiting.
Bring money.

mbiking123

In America, a person considers themselves Irish if the grandparents/forefathers came from Ireland

I talked to Americans who considered themselves Irish and were never in Ireland

Jezzabelle

mbiking123 wrote: »

In America, a person considers themselves Irish if the grandparents/forefathers came from Ireland

I talked to Americans who considered themselves Irish and were never in Ireland

Yeah see that's a bit mad now. It may be a stereotype but I've come across people like that too and the mind boggles..How you can consider yourself to be a certain nationality when you know nothing of the culture, identity or society. Nationality is feck all to do with parentage or ancestry imo. I know you are proud of your roots and the fact that your granny's cousins sister's dog was irish / english / french but it does not make you so!:P

Snowie

RachaelVO wrote: »

Sh1t that's two commandments now.

You've got to a least on stolen vodka off your parents that makes 3 :cool:

policarp

Is Eireanach Tu.
Tar abhaile anoish agus
tog do cuid airgead freisean.

RachaelVO

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

You've got to a least on stolen vodka off your parents that makes 3 :cool:

Bugger it! I'm in deep trouble