They're back !

MugMugs

So the four lads met up on Monday for some script reading. :cool:
But does anybody know if Hollie is making a return ??

Ridley

MugMugs wrote: »

But does anybody know if Hollie is making a return ??

If shklee does come back, Holly's unlikley to be the male version. Norman Lovett has distanced himself from partaking in any more Red Dwarf after issues with his involvement with Back to Earth.

Myrddin

Ridley wrote: »

If shklee does come back, Holly's unlikley to be the male version. Norman Lovett has distanced himself from partaking in any more Red Dwarf after issues with his involvement with Back to Earth.

What happened with him?

MugMugs

EnterNow wrote: »

Ridley wrote: »

If shklee does come back, Holly's unlikley to be the male version. Norman Lovett has distanced himself from partaking in any more Red Dwarf after issues with his involvement with Back to Earth.

What happened with him?

There was a bit of a fall out when he was replaced back in the day.

I'd hope Hollie makes it back. He/she would he a great loss.

Ridley

EnterNow wrote: »

What happened with him?

Sebastian Patrick (who saves me typing it myself) wrote:

Doug’s story (as relayed on the BtE commentary) is that they wanted to have Holly (played by Norm) in BtE, but the matter was very much dependent on whether or not they had the budget to do three episodes rather than two (he couldn’t really fit Holly into things if there were only two). This question was drawn out over some time, as BtE was made on a threadbare budget and it was unclear for a long time exactly what they could and couldn’t afford to do. At some point, Norm rang Doug/GNP and said that he needed to know one way or the other whether they were using him, and they had until the end of that day to give a definite answer because otherwise he was going to take another job. At that point they still couldn’t confirm whether it was two episodes or three… so Norm decided to take the other job. Then, of course, it turned out afterwards that they probably could have accommodated him, but it was too late.

Norm’s story is that he was told he was definitely going to be in it, given dates to put in his diary, and then after a long period of stringing him along, he got “a pathetic little email” telling him he wasn’t in it after all.

It’s really up to you which of the two stories you believe; although I think it’s quite telling about the two men that while Doug has continually (and as recently as this last weekend) said that he’d be happy to have Norman back if he was willing to come back, Norm has spent his time penning spite-filled invectives about the affair on Myspace and on Certain Red Dwarf Fansites (Ahem), and saying he’ll “never have anything to do with Red Dwarf again”. Unless it involves using it to sell tickets to his stand-up shows.

Link

Lovett in 2009 wrote:

I will not be involved in the new Red Dwarf programmes on the Dave channel. A pathetic little email arrived today to let me know that due to budget I would not be appearing. I dread to think about the size of the budget because I’ve never been paid much to appear in Red Dwarf anyway.


I am a little sad because I’ve been saying over the last couple of years that I am the perfect age to play Holly now. (I was 41 when I first played him). I am more angry really because I was given dates to put in my diary before Christmas but what’s new with GrantNaylor in charge.


If you want to make me very happy please go to my website and buy a copy of my new stand-up comedy DVD ‘Bags & Biscuits”


Happy New Year and Best Wishes,


Norman

Link

Scarinae

Robert Llewellyn's blog has some updates about what's going on with series 10, which will be broadcast on Dave in the autumn next year

psychward

I've been a fan of Red Dwarf since the early days. It's funny though that you can see how wrinkly they are becoming. Is a hologram supposed to age ?

Custardpi

Used to be a big fan of Red Dwarf but they should really just let it die at this stage rather than further sullying the memory of what was a fantastic show. Back to Earth was a travesty - bored actors, crappy cgi effects, etc, which tried to be a slicker more "modern" version of the original series & instead served only to remind us that the original magic - (which came from the enthusiasm of the actors & the lovingly cobbled together props & effects) just couldn't be captured in the same way again & it's really pointless & counter-productive trying.

Ressurrecting Red Dwarf now would be like filming new Fawlty Towers (or pretty much any other classic comedy from years gone by) - the charm of the original is based largely on what the actors brought to it & what they brought to it was based on where they were as actors & as people at that specific time. Craig Charles et al are not the actors they were originally. I don't mean that in a negative sense i.e. that their acting ability per se has declined but that they're simply not the same people they were when they made the original so the very thing that made the show so great can't be reproduced.

Making a new series now (as Back to Earth already demonstrated) is a cynical, purely money making exercise which as a fan of the original show saddens me.

Myrddin

Custardpi wrote: »

Used to be a big fan of Red Dwarf but they should really just let it die at this stage rather than further sullying the memory of what was a fantastic show. Back to Earth was a travesty - bored actors, crappy cgi effects, etc, which tried to be a slicker more "modern" version of the original series & instead served only to remind us that the original magic - (which came from the enthusiasm of the actors & the lovingly cobbled together props & effects) just couldn't be captured in the same way again & it's really pointless & counter-productive trying.

Ressurrecting Red Dwarf now would be like filming new Fawlty Towers (or pretty much any other classic comedy from years gone by) - the charm of the original is based largely on what the actors brought to it & what they brought to it was based on where they were as actors & as people at that specific time. Craig Charles et al are not the actors they were originally. I don't mean that in a negative sense i.e. that their acting ability per se has declined but that they're simply not the same people they were when they made the original so the very thing that made the show so great can't be reproduced.

Making a new series now (as Back to Earth already demonstrated) is a cynical, purely money making exercise which as a fan of the original show saddens me.

Your right, why learn from Back To Earth & try again. Bring on Reality TV & Z-List Celebrity challenge shows, because you know, one bad jolt for Red Dwarf means the end.

I think people need to re-evaluate Red Dwarf. The previous 8 seasons were not, in fact, complete masterpieces. Some of it was quite crap, with lightly sparkled comedic moments. The episode Camille & that waxwork episode spring to mind.

Give it a chance, this time it's being touted as a more back to roots approach with a live audience etc. There's always a chance it'll be brilliant, but it's absolutely guaranteed to be watchable. Unlike whatever else remains on tv these days.

Star Trek fans, Stargate fans, never f**king happy until a show is cancelled, seems to be the same with Red Dwarf.

psychward

Some of the episodes were disappointing and felt like some kind of space soap opera at points. I noticed a distinct lack of laughs in at least one after Rimmer left the show temporarily in the middle.
Rimmer being a throughly disgusting example of humanity and Listers interactions with him are crucial to the whole concept.
But somehow I'm still desperately hoping that we can have at least one or 2 good episodes in the coming new series. It might be worth it. The bad ones can be ignored never to be watched again.
When they got it right in the past they were really good.

nyarlothothep

psychward wrote: »

Some of the episodes were disappointing and felt like some kind of space soap opera at points. I noticed a distinct lack of laughs in at least one after Rimmer left the show temporarily in the middle.
Rimmer being a throughly disgusting example of humanity and Listers interactions with him are crucial to the whole concept.
But somehow I'm still desperately hoping that we can have at least one or 2 good episodes in the coming new series. It might be worth it. The bad ones can be ignored never to be watched again.
When they got it right in the past they were really good.

If anything Rimmer is an inditement of humanity. His life is one of negative experiences due to other people from being bullied in school to having parents who didn't love him to his siblings who tried to torture him? Add to that he doesn't test well despite being reasonably intelligent and consequently he's stuck being a space core technician. A a result he's a dissapointment to his family who are more succesful than him by far and this serves as a constant reminder for him of his failing in life and the fact that he was never given a chance to begin with because of those experiences and the fact that he just doesn't fit in with the general run of things. In addition he's cursed with terrible misfortune, he achieves physical form after going back in time through those mutated photographs only to spontaneously explode, he meets an alternate version of himself which functions only rubs salt into the wounds of his pysche, he gets imprisoned by multiple copies of himself on a planet for 600 years when he only wanted to create his own "Jane" to make the best of a bad situation. etc. No wonder he's a totally screwed up neurotic asshole. When they visit the prison zone he's convicted of killing 1000 people by the system but as Kryten points out, his misreable existence has led him to take upon himself guilt for a crime he never committed but rather an action he carried out due to gross incompetence in spite of himself and which he couldn't help anyway being Rimmer. Despite being his own worst enemy he displays glimmers of good qualities and can act in a courageous manner when it really matters. For example his holo girlfriend is able to percieve that he isn't as bad an individual as he makes himself out to be to others and to himself. And instead of pursuing a career on the most elite holo ship in the universe he sacrifices it so that she can live. In addition he goes up against genuinely disgusting examples of humanity, the red dwarf crew from the future, uttering the immortal line, "better dead than smeg" and takes it upon himself to destroy the time drive, thereby saving the entire crew of Red Dwarf, an heroic act in itself. Furthermore his alter ego is Ace Rimmer, a thoroughly shining example of humanity and one which he becomes through assuming the role later on in the series. Essentially Rimmer is a tragi comic character who serves as a cautionary reminder not to become bitter and self hating due to past experiences and also as an example of how its possible to transcend those experiences even if it ultimately means acting in a certain way to become a better person.

In relation to the series, after the other guy left the humour level dropped to almost zero, season 7 was a lethargic travesty, season 8 showed signs of improvement but the humour wasn't there, it was too forced, it wasn't masterful. Back to Earth had good CG relative to its budget, although if nothing less than absolute photorealism floats your boat anything which looks even a bit CG won't be good, but imo the CG demonstrated proficiency and artistry in equal measure. Back to Earth suffered from exactly the same style of writing that seasons 7-8 did, it may be partially attributable to the actors but I would pinpoint the significant decline to the fact that one half of the writing team left.

psychward

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Despite being his own worst enemy he displays glimmers of good qualities and can act in a courageous manner when it really matters. For example his holo girlfriend is able to percieve that he isn't as bad an individual as he makes himself out to be to others and to himself.

That was indeed something I did not expect to see and wasn't in keeping with the rest of the show. However as a fictional character the writers can make Rimmer do anything they want. Maybe Rimmer would have known with his cunning sense of self preservation that as the least capable member of the holocrew he was doomed to failure on board the holoship anyway and probably would have been chosen to accept a challenge from the next aspiring hologram they might encounter and this his new life on board could have been very short unless he found an excuse to leave. In this case he found a way to leave that made him look good.

briany

We don't really need any more Red Dwarf but I'll tune in anyway to see where they are going with it

Series 1 + 2 are the true classic Red Dwarf. Now, for a long time, I didn't think they were the greatest with their grey sets and episodes that featured only the four actors but now I love them for almost exactly that reason. I still don't like the grey sets much but the way those episodes are not only funny but try to capture the ennui of being alone in space like that and portraying a universe where Lister is not only the last Human but may be, along with Cat, the only sentient life that there is out there.

Myrddin

briany wrote: »

We don't really need any more Red Dwarf but I'll tune in anyway to see where they are going with it

I can tell you already, your not going to like it. Season 3 was radically different to seasons 1 & 2 though, how did you rate that?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

seasons 1-2 were kinda "better" than the others, but it still doesn't feel like Red Dwarf without krytie

Myrddin

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

seasons 1-2 were kinda "better" than the others, but it still doesn't feel like Red Dwarf without krytie

I think it was still finding its feet at that stage, I did like the isolation feel to it though. Seasons 3 through 6 brought the focus much closer to the characters though, & the humour was very very good.

It def peaked for season 6

briany

EnterNow wrote: »

I can tell you already, your not going to like it. Season 3 was radically different to seasons 1 & 2 though, how did you rate that?

Series 3 has probably one of the greatest RD episodes in Marooned where Lister and Rimmer are temporarily stuck in a grounded Starbug on an ice planet with only each other for company. It demonstrated, again, that the center of the show is the relationship between Lister and Rimmer, the huge gulf in personality but also that there is a real friendship there. Lister - Rimmer is what series 1 and 2 focused on almost entirely and it's what makes them the best in my view, while series 3 onward began to focus more and more on taking the boys on adventures and the emphasis on Lister v Rimmer started to take more of a back seat.

Still, series 3 to 6 had lots of great episodes that were very funny and very creative in where they took the BFTD but they sacrificed the poignancy for the increased sci-fi element which lost a good deal of the programme's pathos for me.

Myrddin

briany wrote: »

Series 3 has probably one of the greatest RD episodes in Marooned where Lister and Rimmer are temporarily stuck in a grounded Starbug on an ice planet with only each other for company. It demonstrated, again, that the center of the show is the relationship between Lister and Rimmer, the huge gulf in personality but also that there is a real friendship there. Lister - Rimmer is what series 1 and 2 focused on almost entirely and it's what makes them the best in my view, while series 3 onward began to focus more and more on taking the boys on adventures and the emphasis on Lister v Rimmer started to take more of a back seat.

Still, series 3 to 6 had lots of great episodes that were very funny and very creative in where they took the BFTD but they sacrificed the poignancy for the increased sci-fi element which lost a good deal of the programme's pathos for me.

Then, your 100% not gonna like the new series, it'll likely be as far departed from season 1 & 2 as season 8 was.

I like it all I have to say, 1 through 6 was just genious. 7 has a totally different feel to it, with the CGI & cinematic cameras, but it grew on me over the years. Season 8 was back to live-action type camera work, but is kinda weak. Krytie TV was very good though I like BTE, purely because it was new, didn't take itself too seriously, & it was great to see them all back together & making me laugh

briany

EnterNow wrote: »

Then, your 100% not gonna like the new series, it'll likely be as far departed from season 1 & 2 as season 8 was.

I like it all I have to say, 1 through 6 was just genious. 7 has a totally different feel to it, with the CGI & cinematic cameras, but it grew on me over the years. Season 8 was back to live-action type camera work, but is kinda weak. Krytie TV was very good though I like BTE, purely because it was new, didn't take itself too seriously, & it was great to see them all back together & making me laugh

I still enjoyed all of the series of Red Dwarf, including 7 onwards because there's still good gags there and you want to see where they will take the characters but I didn't enjoy them as much. Series 3-6 were probably overall the most entertaining but I see 1 and 2 as the purest RD and the ones that you can keep coming back to but they had to move on from that because there's only so much you can do with 3 men and a senile computer trapped alone in space before it starts to feel like Samuel Beckett. I also accept that it's pretty much the nature of any long running television program, certainly with sitcoms, that eventually the quality will wane.

Ridley

EnterNow wrote: »

Then, your 100% not gonna like the new series, it'll likely be as far departed from season 1 & 2 as season 8 was.

From the Ganymede and Titan set reports for the recordings, the first three episodes' reception is mostly positive.

"Writing-wise, it’s good. It’s very good. It feels like V mixed with VI, with a chunk of II, which is obviously a very good thing." For the first episode at least.

I'm a series VII fan (first I saw incidentally) but I'm not going to complain if Doug Naylor finally delivers a series on par with the sort he was writing with Rob Grant almost twenty years ago.

briany

Good to hear about the positive reports.

I suppose that, hopefully, it'll just be a return to adventures in space. One thing that needs to come back is a level of antagonism between Lister and Rimmer. I know that over the series they've become friendlier to one another but because the current Rimmer is a hologram of the Rimmer on the reconstructed RD, a reboot of the dynamic wouldn't seem so unnatural. Just something I always thought was central to what made the show work.

Hopefully they play it as straight as possible and not tongue in cheek/wink to the camera style (Kryten's gotten really silly over the years).

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Saw the recordings for series 10 last month. I am pleased to say it is looking as utterly fantastic as the previous series. Lots of smeg ups will be on the DVD!

GeneralBritishness 1 month ago

was watching a smeg ups video on youtube and saw that comment
good to see the audience enjoying the new stuff anyway, hopefully whoever wrote that is right.