bullying-but not bullying??!!

Catxscotch

I work in a small building with 5-6 people every day. 4 of these people are the worst god-awful, hateful, sneaky conniving f*ckers that ever walked the earth. However, as they are not officially "bullying" me in the actual definition of the word, I can do nothing.
Examples: I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him. Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".
Another one, Im typing this now and I hear them giving out about me over budget cuts and stuff..Im the youngest in the office, and second in command. Boss hasn't the balls to do anything...
Am I blowing it all out of proportion?

stovelid

Catxscotch wrote: »

I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..n?

Catxscotch wrote: »

Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".

Not bullying, eh?

Catxscotch

Not in the technical definition sense, no.

jester77

If you're second in command then you have the authority to give him a verbal warning, to be followed up by a written warning and then dismissal.

phasers

I'd have thought that screaming in somebody's face and exclusion is very obvious bullying.

John Doe1

Have you considered murder?:)

Catxscotch

EVERY DAY

PCPhoto

probably not - but I would question why you have no authority to discipline the staff.

if you are their superior you should be allowed to follow procedure and issue warnings, I assume the company have a code of conduct procedures with respect to work practices, bullying in the workplace, health and safety etc etc ...if not I think you should contact your boss and discuss the matter with him/her.

explain that you are experiencing resentment and disrespect from staff members and feel that as management you should be given more respect - next time someone shouts in your face .... remind them their behaviour is not acceptable and give them a formal warning - ensure you do follow procedure as set out in guidelines - plenty of people these days sue because proper procedure was not followed.

Saila

Catxscotch wrote: »

a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior

thats bullying no?

Dudess

It is of course bullying. Less malignant stuff than that is defined as bullying, e.g. exclusion without actually saying anything. What's happening to you is even worse.

stovelid

Not only is it bullying, it's open and extreme bullying.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

PCPhoto

phasers wrote: »

I'd have thought that screaming in somebody's face and exclusion is very obvious bullying.

I have to point out that the OP has indicated the reason for exclusion being that she/he is management ... this is perfectly acceptable if staff wish to have a staff only "christmas party", however, as management you can refuse any funding as it is not an official work function and simply a few members of staff getting together.

if there was an official work "christmas do" ... then you have no reason to be excluded and who the F*ck are they to decide who can go and who can't.

is you boss invited to said "party" ?

Lady Chuckles

That is bullying. Tell them off, OP!

PCPhoto

since it has not been mentioned ....and this is AH ....

Blast 'em with pi$$ !!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Catxscotch wrote: »

I work in a small building with 5-6 people every day. 4 of these people are the worst god-awful, hateful, sneaky conniving f*ckers that ever walked the earth. However, as they are not officially "bullying" me in the actual definition of the word, I can do nothing.
Examples: I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him. Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".
Another one, Im typing this now and I hear them giving out about me over budget cuts and stuff..Im the youngest in the office, and second in command. Boss hasn't the balls to do anything...
Am I blowing it all out of proportion?

Frist example is, second example is not.

Sounds more like they can't handle someone younge being higher up than them.

McWotever

Depending on the actual situation where he screamed in your face it could be perceived as an assault. An assault is basically if you are in fear for your safety and does not need a physical strike to be made.

Bullying is very hard to prove if your superior doesn't have the balls.

Bullying is a sustained "attack" on you. A one off situation cannot be described as bullying.

Dan Dare

Definately bullying, how long have you been working there? Are you the only female employee in the company? Has it always been like this? Good luck

Donal Og O Baelach

You need to wedge your way into their click, make an ally of one of the women, then you isolate the old man by creating a hostile office atmosphere for him. Next move onto the 2nd victim, use whatever psychological weaponry suits each target. Lastly you oust the boss and you end up running the joint.
It will work, but you may feel all scummy inside.:)

kylith

Catxscotch wrote: »

Examples: I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him.

Report him. That behaviour is completely unacceptable. I know you probably feel weird because you're above them and your younger than them but ask yourself 'If I did this to my boss, what would happen'. Report him and tell your superior, and the old bastard, that you will issue him a verbal warning if it happens again, and do so ('How dare you speak to anyone like that! You can consider this your verbal warning'). If he does it again it's a written warning. Being old doesn't give you a free pass from following the rules.

Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".

This one I wouldn't take personally; no-one wants their manager at their Christmas party, and do you really want to spend the evening with 1) your underlings 2) a bunch of nasty horrible people and 3) really old?

Another one, Im typing this now and I hear them giving out about me over budget cuts and stuff..Im the youngest in the office, and second in command. Boss hasn't the balls to do anything...
Am I blowing it all out of proportion?

Again, write that one off; you're the boss - you get blamed for thing whether they're your fault or not.

Happy W

HSA's definition of bullying "repeated inappropriate behaviour, direct or indirect, whether verbal, physical or otherwise, conducted by one or more persons against another or others, at the place of work and/or in the course of employment, which could reasonably be regarded as undermining the individual‘s right to dignity at work."

Might be no harm to point this out to your boss

Sephiroth_dude

Your not blowing anything out proportion,next time the 60 yr old screams in your face tell him STFU and give him a hard slap across head.

Shiner11

Catxscotch wrote: »

I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him.

60+ isn't that far away from retirement.
Maybe you should retire him yourself.....if you catch my drift.

lastlaugh

Catxscotch wrote: »

I work in a small building with 5-6 people every day. 4 of these people are the worst god-awful, hateful, sneaky conniving f*ckers that ever walked the earth. However, as they are not officially "bullying" me in the actual definition of the word, I can do nothing.
Examples: I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him. Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".
Another one, Im typing this now and I hear them giving out about me over budget cuts and stuff..Im the youngest in the office, and second in command. Boss hasn't the balls to do anything...
Am I blowing it all out of proportion?

This is an affont on your dignity that cannot be let pass.

You must now begin to wage a subtle psychological war on this old codger.

Try and make him seem incompetent, sabotage his work if necessary.

It is important that you remain polite but slightly detached, if he gets angry like that again you must use it to your advantage, and get him the bullet.

maxfresh

gate crash their xmas do , get extremely drunk and let rip at the bastards

lastlaugh

maxfresh wrote: »

gate crash their xmas do , get extremely drunk and let rip at the bastards

Sabotage their xmas do.

damonjewel

Its a good idea to keep a diary of offending bullying incidents detailing not just the incident but how you felt at the time of the incident too. This can be then brought to your boss/HR team to illustrate your situation. Nobody should have to put up with that kind of crap in this day and age.

Logical Fallacy

Just cancel the Christmas party.

**** the lot of em.

kincsem

Give him a verbal warning. If it happens after that then a written warning. It might help if you had the verbal warning written out so you can read it to him, and quote it word for word in the written warning. Discuss this with your superior first, and if he prevents you confronting the abuser, tell him you are getting advice as you are being bullied and he is allowing it. Put it in writing to your superior. Keep records.

Hobbes

Both would fall under harassment as the latter is undermining you in work. Do this.

1. If it happens again you tell the person that their attitude is inappropriate and they need to conduct themselves professionally. Likewise tell the other person their comments are not welcome. Also don't do this in public, explain it to them in private.

2. If it continues at that point you ask a second time for them to stop. In both cases document date and times and what actions were done.

3. If it still doesn't stop you go to the manager. If the manger is the problem, then senior manager. Again if it doesn't stop at this point you bring it to HR.

If there is no HR then point out to the owner what has taken place and that you want it to stop.

In harassment cases, it is the company/owner that gets sued, not the employees so if the company is in anyway professional they stomp on it fast.

Continue to document any further actions, as well as any incidents which may question your work but not classed as harassment. Eg, someone fecks up, did you get the blame? Did a manager come to you at that time?

If it still continues at that point talk to a lawyer.


... Everyone has limits in relation to abuse and with who. So normally this stuff stops once they are aware of what you find acceptable.

kfallon

Next time the 60 year old screams in your face tell him if he does it again you'll put his head thru the fooking wall!

Then remind him the 'rules' of the office do not apply in the outside world!

Catxscotch

Thanks for all of the advice guys!! The old codger screamed in my face when the boss and another manager from head office were present. My boss ignored this behaviour. I am going to talk to my boss about the incident now as I feel I can not move on until something is done. Stupid old fecker!! As for breaking him down bit by bit...I'm working on it!!!

lastlaugh

Catxscotch wrote: »

Thanks for all of the advice guys!! The old codger screamed in my face when the boss and another manager from head office were present. My boss ignored this behaviour. I am going to talk to my boss about the incident now as I feel I can not move on until something is done. Stupid old fecker!! As for breaking him down bit by bit...I'm working on it!!!

Your boss and the other manager sound like spineless swine.

Lapsed Catholic

Most definitely bullying. All companies in Ireland must have, by law, Safety Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005 (Sec 20) a written safety statement. The safety statement must make reference to the risks associated to bullying. Your employers have a legal duty to provide and maintain a safe and healthy workplace, they also have a duty of care to you.

Some moe info here http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/

foodie66

Start recording all instances.

Talk to your boss (who sounds like an idiot if he sees this going on and does nothing) Give a verbal warning, written warning etc. That might make the boss get his act together too.

Show your authority more, if they are getting away with talking crap about you in FRONT of you then you are partly responsible for it. That needed to be nipped in the bud the very first time. It's not easy especially if you are the only girl and the men are much older. You just have to do it.

I wouldn't worry too much about not being invited to the party, who would want to go with such a bunch of tossers! They probably WANT you to feel bad, so just smile sweetly and say 'enjoy', should sicken them.

Be careful about talking on these boards. If any of them read here you are immediately recognisable - although it is the PERFECT platform to tell them what you think of them without being fired

Personally, i would have threatened that 60 year old gobsh!te with the gardai! You don't have to put up with that, but yeah, i definitely think you need to balls up a bit! They see you as a soft target for a reason

EarlyStorms

What the old lad did was bullying and he should be punished for it. If he does anything like that again then I'd tell him to buy some gardening tools because he's going to have alot of spare time on his hands.

Plazaman

Catxscotch wrote: »

As for breaking him down bit by bit...I'm working on it!!!

You've come to the right place then.

a) On a quiet afternoon, stay on the phone whispering and looking around the Office suspiciously for about an hour. Every now say the word "Redundancy?" and "Bill?" (or old codgers name) out loud then look agitated and go back to whispering. Every now and again look at him and shake your head

b) Talk to your boss about something totally unwork related (say a Summer Barbeque for example) but something that he will be very keen and excited about. Then before his next visit tell the troublemakers that any further insubordination will be dealt with swiftly as per the procedures you've already discussed with the Boss. Then when he's in the Office call him aside and animatedly discuss your non work topic and randomly point at the Staff when he's not looking.

c) From today onwards start carrying your stapler around with you EVERYWHERE. Progressively get more possessive of it. Next week start stroking it and talking to it. Point it at "Bill" every now and again while stapling thin air and making Star Wars style shooting sounds. No one likes to argue with a nutter (as you can already testify to).

d) Start moving stuff around his desk when he's not there. Don't remove any of it but make it obvious it's been moved.

e) Again when Bill is not at his desk, use his email to send sexually suggestive messages to the Boss. Ensure to include the words "suckage", "moist", "cócknobbler" and "extreme wánkage" liberally throughout the email.

I'm sure others have better ideas.

Dublin Chick

I think that you should go to management but in the meantime here are a few fun things things that you can do:

1. Misplace peoples pens
2. Put salt on someone’s mouse pad
3. Swap co-worker’s chairs
4. Throw out other people’s stuff on the printer by "accident"

Childish & fun

foodie66

Definitely mess around with their schtuff!.

hondasam

Catxscotch wrote: »

I work in a small building with 5-6 people every day. 4 of these people are the worst god-awful, hateful, sneaky conniving f*ckers that ever walked the earth. However, as they are not officially "bullying" me in the actual definition of the word, I can do nothing.
Examples: I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him. Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".
Another one, Im typing this now and I hear them giving out about me over budget cuts and stuff..Im the youngest in the office, and second in command. Boss hasn't the balls to do anything...
Am I blowing it all out of proportion?

You are obviously not able to do your job properly. If you are second in command then act like it and stand up for yourself.
You are not exactly complimentary about your colleagues in your op.
Why would you want to go out with them if they are so sneaky and conniving?

pragmatic1

Get some shoulder pads, an 80s power haircut and act like a thundercnut.

or

Be extra nice to one of them and make them your pet. This will isolate them from their group. Then repeat with another. Then you'll have your own gang.

stupidusername

I just finished up at my job because of bullying OP, and the reason I left is because my boss wouldn't / couldn't do anything about it. my job was slightly less important than that of the guy that was doing the bullying, and so I was the one to have to leave.

but you're in the position to give these verbal and written warnings, and I would suggest you do it.

hondasam

stupidusername wrote: »

I just finished up at my job because of bullying OP, and the reason I left is because my boss wouldn't / couldn't do anything about it. my job was slightly less important than that of the guy that was doing the bullying, and so I was the one to have to leave.

but you're in the position to give these verbal and written warnings, and I would suggest you do it.

Sorry to hear this Stupi, I'm sure you will not want to go down this road but have a read anyway.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=constructive%20dismissal&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citizensinformation.ie%2Fen%2Femployment%2Funemployment_and_redundancy%2Fdismissal%2Fconstructive_dismissal.html&ei=NqzWTuycH8SmhAevkqV3&usg=AFQjCNHQfYRwZ533Q_do4TpzPxb9Kl6EIg

BunShopVoyeur

Catxscotch wrote: »

I work in a small building with 5-6 people every day. 4 of these people are the worst god-awful, hateful, sneaky conniving f*ckers that ever walked the earth. However, as they are not officially "bullying" me in the actual definition of the word, I can do nothing.
Examples: I am 24 yr old female, a 60+ yr old man screams in my face that I know nothing and gets away with it..I am his superior, but have no power to discipline him. Another example, they are planning an xmas party, but Im not invited as I am "Management".
Another one, Im typing this now and I hear them giving out about me over budget cuts and stuff..Im the youngest in the office, and second in command. Boss hasn't the balls to do anything...
Am I blowing it all out of proportion?

This is absolutely bullying, you really need to sort this out with your boss and stamp this out as quickly as possible.

Nobody deserves to go to work to be treated like this.

Duckjob

Start stacking boxes up around the old codgers desk. Then tell him you're "going to need to go ahead and get him to relocate down to the basement."

Seriously though, it's astounding that he would have gotten away with abusing you like that in front of your boss. Your boss needs to grow some balls. Depending on how secure you feel in your own position, it might be time for an ultimatum - "Do something about him or I'm out of here."