Protesters seize Brian Walsh's constituence office.

Fuinseog

Newaglish wrote: »

Fees for those who can afford them, grants for those who can't. Free fees was only ever a gift to middle class families, there was never a documented rise in participation of people from lower income families as a result of the removal of fees in the first place.

I wouldn't have been able to afford fees when I went to college which is why I got a grant to pay for my day-to-day costs and was exempt from paying "registration fees" which any numpty can tell is just another word for tuition fees. Did you really thinks it takes €2,000 in administration costs to register a student?

scholarships were always available. i am not convinced that getting in is a class thing. you just have to work harder.
btw student loans have a low interest rate.

MissMoppet

I'm having to survive on the grant. Trust me it is not a lot of money. I get no support from my mother because she can't afford to heat the house never mind help me out.

For me to ask for an education to better this country, which I believe in, I honestly do not think is that much to ask.

For people who keep saving 'I don't care about the students, what do they do for me?' Remember your Doctor, Nurse, Accountant, Dentist, Teacher had to get a third level education.

Would you rather the government supported me through a University degree or on the dole queue? Which betters society??

xo.mary

Fuinseog wrote: »

scholarships were always available. i am not convinced that getting in is a class thing. you just have to work harder.
btw student loans have a low interest rate.

Yeah, there are scholarships available, but very few and you usually have to excel at something/or qualify (if you live in a really disadvantaged area etc) to get them.

'You just have to work harder.' Please tell me you don't mean, you *just* have to get a job... when there are no jobs.

Is a bank really going to give an 18 year old kid a loan?

MissMoppet

xo.mary wrote: »

Is a bank really going to give an 18 year old kid a loan?

Nope tried.

PomBear

Point of info....... 9 of the protesters were arrested today, wonder would they be as quick to arrest a TD who's at fault...

Newaglish

MissMoppet wrote: »

I'm having to survive on the grant. Trust me it is not a lot of money. I get no support from my mother because she can't afford to heat the house never mind help me out.

For me to ask for an education to better this country, which I believe in, I honestly do not think is that much to ask.

For people who keep saving 'I don't care about the students, what do they do for me?' Remember your Doctor, Nurse, Accountant, Dentist, Teacher had to get a third level education.

Would you rather the government supported me through a University degree or on the dole queue? Which betters society??

Yes but grant recipients would be exempt from fees, no?

Mrs OBumble

xo.mary wrote: »

Is a bank really going to give an 18 year old kid a loan?

International experience (ie Australia and NZ) suggests that banks are very keen to participate in government-backed student loans schemes, and do indeed give loans to young adults aged 18.



I like the idea of the first undergraduate degree being low-cost.

But I don't believe the government country can afford it any more (if it ever really could). And the behaviour that I observe from students (I live in town) suggests that a good proportion of them have no idea of the value of money, and little appreciation of the opportunity they're being given: they're happy to spend a good amount of the time either drunk of hung-over, and are not in any state to receive education for a good proportion of the week. Frankly, if they had to pay meaningful fees, they would make better use of the opportunity.

So I say .... fees for those who can afford it, grants for those who can't.

Danakin

Fuinseog wrote: »

scholarships were always available. i am not convinced that getting in is a class thing. you just have to work harder.
btw student loans have a low interest rate.

You are not convinced that getting in is a class thing yet college attendance rates among poor socio-economic group remains low.

You are suggesting then that these people are simply lazier than middle class people?

The interest rate on a student loan can be up to 20% for those with limited income.

desaparecidos

They should cut the grant and introduce higher fees.

My graduation class 3 years ago where a bunch of retards bar one or two. Completely incompetent and unfit to even fill an entry level role.

Maybe if there's a significant cost to college, it will weed out the waster who just piss away any grants anyway, and the people who do attend might have a bit more motivation to apply themselves and pay attention in lectures.

The quality of our degree holders is abysmal.

factual lies

I worked to put myself through college, had to pay for rent, food and a multitude of fees. I had no social life, had to take things more seriously, but I got through it and this was in the 80's when the recession was at its worst. Even if there is a hike in fees and re-introduction of others, the students will be paying less than what the costs were 30 years ago. Nowadays, it seems anyone can get a degree as half of the students coming into my place of work are the pits, haven't a clue, cursing that they wished they were still in college just for the drink. They've had it easy for to long now, time for them to wake up and smell the coffee.

Ficheall

MissMoppet wrote: »

For me to ask for an education to better this country, which I believe in, I honestly do not think is that much to ask.

You're going to better this country? That's mighty big of you.
How much education do you think you'd need - on top of the 12 years' education you've had already? Surely you could manage some bettering with that?

MissMoppet wrote: »

Would you rather the government supported me through a University degree or on the dole queue? Which betters society??

Very valid point - the dole system in this country is dragging us down. It should be properly maintained. There's a lot of people whose dole payments should be cut.


Whilst I agree that Ireland is giving far too much money to its fat cats etc, and that that money would be far better spent elsewhere, I don't think that providing free education to every fool who decides they want to spend a few years in college is a good use for it either.

Doctor_Socks

antoobrien wrote: »

Personally I'd rather see funding removed from courses with little prospect of getting jobs - like pretty much anything from the arts faculty

I'd some what agree with this, i'm in the field of electronic engineering in Galway and the city is crying out for engineers. A company in Tuam is desperately looking for engineers but can't find them due to lack of interest. By dropping the fees involved with the course and upping fees to compensate for it on something like Civil Engineering which at the moment has pretty much zero job prospects, it might encourage some people who would have an engineering mindset to try electronics as opposed to civil.

The only thing I would be against though is the fact that it might also entice people to do a course they have no interest in as its cheaper, causing them to drop out in later years.

_Puma_

Doctor_Socks wrote: »

I'd some what agree with this, i'm in the field of electronic engineering in Galway and the city is crying out for engineers. A company in Tuam is desperately looking for engineers but can't find them due to lack of interest. By dropping the fees involved with the course and upping fees to compensate for it on something like Civil Engineering which at the moment has pretty much zero job prospects, it might encourage some people who would have an engineering mindset to try electronics as opposed to civil.

The only thing I would be against though is the fact that it might also entice people to do a course they have no interest in as its cheaper, causing them to drop out in later years.

Coming from someone that did Civil Engineering I completley agree with you there. Started Collegee in 2006 doing an Undenominated Engineering course with the intention of doing Electronic and Computer after the 1st year but mistakingly went into Civil. Prospects in Civil Engineering after graduating were retrain or emigrate. Spent a year working in an Electronics test Engineering company and now back in college doing a conversion course!

*Edit Never once got a grant either, always paid my own way through college with Part time and Summer Jobs! Cant understand how some Students can afford to go on J1's and buy cars and Insurance for themselves!

Predalien

Fuinseog wrote: »

btw student loans have a low interest rate.

That's unfortunately not true, AIB is 10.33% APR, Bank of Ireland is 10.2% APR, and they normally want you to start making the repayments immediately.

Danakin

desaparecidos wrote: »

They should cut the grant and introduce higher fees.

My graduation class 3 years ago where a bunch of retards bar one or two. Completely incompetent and unfit to even fill an entry level role.

Maybe if there's a significant cost to college, it will weed out the waster who just piss away any grants anyway, and the people who do attend might have a bit more motivation to apply themselves and pay attention in lectures.

The quality of our degree holders is abysmal.

No, it would 'weed out' anyone from a lower income famiy who could not afford the higher fees or the rental/supplementary costs that the grant covers.

I applied myself without fees. I do not think I could have worked any harder with the dubious 'motivation' of not being able to make ends meet.

MissMoppet

Ficheall wrote: »

You're going to better this country? That's mighty big of you.
How much education do you think you'd need - on top of the 12 years' education you've had already? Surely you could manage some bettering with that?

Why thank you!

I don't really think that 5 years of secondary school teaching will get me personally very far.

Newaglish wrote: »

Yes but grant recipients would be exempt from fees, no?

They are atm but the Student contribution may increase.

Reillyman

I'm really glad to see the level of great opinions on this thread. I completely agree with what most people here are advocating in one way or another, reintroduce fees.

There's absolutely no reason why people should not contribute towards their own education, this attitude of "No fees and that's the end of it" is ridiculous. There's so many people in college I know and see who can well afford to be paying full fees, why should the taxpayer pay for this?

Let me add that a reintroduction of fees should only happen if accompanied by an efficient student loan system, better means testing and erect no barriers to third level etc.

If people had to pay fees I believe it would seriously weed out the complete wasters in the universities which are dragging down the quality of the establishments. The consensus in Ireland at the moment is that 3rd level is the thing you have do after secondary school, which results in large amounts of people doing courses for the sake of doing something, while having no interest in the subjects at all. Take "Soc&Pol" students for example, the vast majority of them would cringe if I ever started talking about politics etc, absolute waste of time. Fees would ensure that people would only do a course if they were interested and committed to it(in most cases).

This is coming from someone who would be hit most by re-introduction of fees as I don't get any of the grants or that, but to be honest I'd prefer to spend a few years paying off a loan for my education than having the taxpayer/parents pay for it.

Ficheall

MissMoppet wrote: »

I don't really think that 5 years of secondary school teaching will get me personally very far.

Then why on Earth should the taxpayer waste another few grand putting you through another 3 or 4 years of teaching?