What does BER rating really mean ?

TheNewMe

Hi,

I recently had a BER survey done and the house was rated C2.

The house is a mid 90s bungalow, c. 1500 sqft, 200mm insulation in the attic, cavity wall is pumped with 100mm insulation, new gas combi boiler installed 6 mos ago and all rads are TRV controlled. The inside of all external walls are all drylined also. All windows are double glazed. There's also a double door at the front door which I introduced to deal with a draught issue.

Now I find that the house is very toasty and comfortable and so far - although it's a mild winter - the heating bill is much less than last year before all the added insulation.

I heard on the radio this week that Minister Rabbite wants to prevent houses with less than C1 BER being offered for rent. WTF ? I don't care because I don't foresee ever renting out my house but it makes me wonder what this BER really is supposed to mean. What more could I do to my house short of a giant tea cosy to make it more insulated yet he thinks it wouldn't be good enough for renting out.

creedp

TheNewMe wrote: »

Hi,

I recently had a BER survey done and the house was rated C2.

The house is a mid 90s bungalow, c. 1500 sqft, 200mm insulation in the attic, cavity wall is pumped with 100mm insulation, new gas combi boiler installed 6 mos ago and all rads are TRV controlled. The inside of all external walls are all drylined also. All windows are double glazed. There's also a double door at the front door which I introduced to deal with a draught issue.

Now I find that the house is very toasty and comfortable and so far - although it's a mild winter - the heating bill is much less than last year before all the added insulation.

I heard on the radio this week that Minister Rabbite wants to prevent houses with less than C1 BER being offered for rent. WTF ? I don't care because I don't foresee ever renting out my house but it makes me wonder what this BER really is supposed to mean. What more could I do to my house short of a giant tea cosy to make it more insulated yet he thinks it wouldn't be good enough for renting out.

That's unbelievable, so the nanny state is now deciding that a person can no longer decide for themselves whether they want to rent a particular house .. they have to be told that unless it complies with a BER rating then you must look elsewhere even if the rent is discounted to take a/c of the quality of the house! Maybe if the State decided to implement some kind of quality control over the houses is pays vast sums of rent relief for then the std of accommodation that some people have to live in might improve dramatically. Again the Govt, like the water rates issue and the septic tank registration charge fails to get its own house in order but decided instead to crucify people who are simply trying to survive at present. In my view, to come along and say that a private individual paying with his own cash can't decide to rent a house because it doen't comply with a C1 BER rating is plain ridiculous. Fair enough that a bloody BER has to be got but after that its buyer beware time. Maybe they will also go along and condem private residences and remove children from such homes because they don't have a coveted C1 .. where will this end

MicktheMan

TheNewMe wrote: »

Hi,

I recently had a BER survey done and the house was rated C2.

The house is a mid 90s bungalow, c. 1500 sqft, 200mm insulation in the attic, cavity wall is pumped with 100mm insulation, new gas combi boiler installed 6 mos ago and all rads are TRV controlled. The inside of all external walls are all drylined also. All windows are double glazed. There's also a double door at the front door which I introduced to deal with a draught issue.

Now I find that the house is very toasty and comfortable and so far - although it's a mild winter - the heating bill is much less than last year before all the added insulation.

There is little or no correlation of the BER rating versus the actual thermal performance of the dwelling (comfort level, energy required for heating etc).
How could there be when the BER is calculated based solely on how the dwelling should have been built rather than on how it actually was built.
For an existing dwelling, there is no requirement for any quantitative testing to be performed. If there is no proper documentation of upgrade works carried out in the past then these upgrades potentially cannot be included.
The BER system is a farce and the sooner this is recognised by the public and politicians the better.

sydthebeat

TheNewMe wrote: »

I heard on the radio this week that Minister Rabbite wants to prevent houses with less than C1 BER being offered for rent.

in that case no house built prior to 2008 would be suitable for renting.

and for the vast majotriy of these houses... even if they applied for ever upgrade grant available, they still wouldnt reach a C1 rating....

picorette

TheNewMe wrote: »

Hi,

I recently had a BER survey done and the house was rated C2.

The house is a mid 90s bungalow, c. 1500 sqft, 200mm insulation in the attic, cavity wall is pumped with 100mm insulation, new gas combi boiler installed 6 mos ago and all rads are TRV controlled. The inside of all external walls are all drylined also. All windows are double glazed. There's also a double door at the front door which I introduced to deal with a draught issue.

Now I find that the house is very toasty and comfortable and so far - although it's a mild winter - the heating bill is much less than last year before all the added insulation.

Your house has been rated at C2 according to the data that was input.

Unless the Assessor had certified documentation regarding the upgrades that you mention, they are not allowed to include them in the data and would instead have to make standard assumptions for a house of that age. In addition, the double door has to create a lobby of two square metres or more to be classified as a draught lobby.

TheNewMe

picorette wrote: »

Your house has been rated at C2 according to the data that was input.

Unless the Assessor had certified documentation regarding the upgrades that you mention, they are not allowed to include them in the data and would instead have to make standard assumptions for a house of that age. In addition, the double door has to create a lobby of two square metres or more to be classified as a draught lobby.

The BER was obtained to satisfy SEAI requirements for the sustainable energy grant. All the upgrades I mentioned were complete at the time of the survey. The assessor spent about an hour measuring all around the house and looking into every nook and cranny and saw all the SEAI forms filled out by the contractors who installed the upgrades.

As far as the draught lobby is concerned - it's a sliding door on the outside connecting two bay windows and the enclosed area is approx 1.99 sq m - otherwise I might have needed planning approval

d'Oracle

sydthebeat wrote: »

in that case no house built prior to 2008 would be suitable for renting.

and for the vast majotriy of these houses... even if they applied for ever upgrade grant available, they still wouldnt reach a C1 rating....

You hear a lot of crazy nonsense on the radio these days....

d'Oracle

creedp wrote: »

where will this end

It won't end with people telling the truth on the radio anyway.

Look there is big hassle about bad building right now as a result of Priory hall.
Chances are this will blow over.

The reality is the strategy, (not law or anything like that) is that he wants properties with E, F and G off the rental market from 2020.

Where the C1 came from, I'm not sure.
But its probably to do with the C1 rating required for upgrades, which is used as a basis for some of the energy efficiency funding processes.

brdboard

d'Oracle wrote: »

creedp wrote: »

where will this end

It won't end with people telling the truth on the radio anyway.

Look there is big hassle about bad building right now as a result of Priory hall.
Chances are this will blow over.

The reality is the strategy, (not law or anything like that) is that he wants properties with E, F and G off the rental market from 2020.

Where the C1 came from, I'm not sure.
But its probably to do with the C1 rating required for upgrades, which is used as a basis for some of the energy efficiency funding processes.

My understanding was that the rating limit would only apply to properties that were receiving rent supplements from social welfare or maybe being rented from local authorities.
If you're renting privately you should be able to rent an old draughty castle of that's what you want, and I believe this is what is being suggested.

sydthebeat

there coul dbe some truth in this because i have seen a social house near me upgraded with pumped cavity and attic insulation, if not more, prior to it being rented recently. The houses are only 7 years old !

d'Oracle

Local authorities are required to "Aim" for a C1 when retrofitting.

I guess the general idea is they are trying to bring up the general level of energy efficiency of the housing stock. To alleviate carbon emissions, fuel poverty and reliance on imported energy commodities.

Its a noble goal IMO.
I can see the point with regard to people having a choice and such, but I'm inclined to disregard it myself. We are all libertarians when we are angry. But if we can't afford oil and gas in a few years I'll have no sympathy for folks who wanted hands off now.

creedp

d'Oracle wrote: »

Local authorities are required to "Aim" for a C1 when retrofitting.

I guess the general idea is they are trying to bring up the general level of energy efficiency of the housing stock. To alleviate carbon emissions, fuel poverty and reliance on imported energy commodities.

Its a noble goal IMO.
I can see the point with regard to people having a choice and such, but I'm inclined to disregard it myself. We are all libertarians when we are angry. But if we can't afford oil and gas in a few years I'll have no sympathy for folks who wanted hands off now.

There is no hands off now .. if you are building/renovating and want grants there are strict Regs around what you can/can't do. However, to suggest that the State should not allow a person to rent a premises because it doesn't qualify for a C1 BER is a different matter. If the person couldn't afford to heat it he would be free to look elsewhere.

Maybe you also have no sympathy for people who are driving older less efficient cars and can't afford to upgrade to benefit from lower fuel and road tax costs. Maybe you would support the environmental police going around confiscating cars that don't fall into the B or C road tax bracket. Again, if they can't afford the fule they can't drive .. doesn't mean the Govt should tell them they can't drive their car.

d'Oracle

creedp wrote: »

There is no hands off now .. if you are building/renovating and want grants there are strict Regs around what you can/can't do. However, to suggest that the State should not allow a person to rent a premises because it doesn't qualify for a C1 BER is a different matter. If the person couldn't afford to heat it he would be free to look elsewhere.

Maybe you also have no sympathy for people who are driving older less efficient cars and can't afford to upgrade to benefit from lower fuel and road tax costs. Maybe you would support the environmental police going around confiscating cars that don't fall into the B or C road tax bracket. Again, if they can't afford the fule they can't drive .. doesn't mean the Govt should tell them they can't drive their car.

Maybe you should check back your facts on what is proposed.

Maybe you should also lay off the libertarian populist indignation and conduct a conversation with a bit of respect for those who are engaging in conversation with you.

sydthebeat

guys,

keep it civil here or there will be action taken against you.

the facts appear to be that local authorities are aiming to upgrade those properties that they rent. That is a good thing no matter what way you look at it.

There doesnt appear to be any attempt to restrict rental properties by their BER as of yet... so lets not surmise or assume anything.

creedp

d'Oracle wrote: »

Maybe you should check back your facts on what is proposed.

Maybe you should also lay off the libertarian populist indignation and conduct a conversation with a bit of respect for those who are engaging in conversation with you.

Apologies for upsetting your sensitivities and disrespecting your opinions which of course you are entitled to just as much as I am entitled to mine ... populist indignation indeed!