32 year battle to get Marks&Spencer to Limerick

Poxyshamrock

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Parkways not closed or falling into dereliction. Not sure what you mean.

In regards to The Parkway, I mean that they kept that Dunnes open when they opened Childers Road purely to stop another anchor going in there.

Brennans Row

Limerick Chamber of Commerce: The right strategic move would be for M&S to locate in the city centre - not in the suburbs.

Retail Excellence Ireland: have expressed hopes that the company will reconsider ist decision.

City Hall: Disappointed that a location outside the city had been chosen by M&S.

Milk Market: Limerick city centre will be dead and buried if Marks and Spencer open a store in the Parkway Valley as planned.

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan: The announcement is great news for Limerick.

I wonder what do the County Councillors Jackman, Wade, Butler & Co now think of their own planning legacy?

Source Leader and Live95fm

Mc Love

Milk Market - the city is dead anyway apart from saturdays when the market is opened and thats only in the morning!

All the others - find a suitable location for the store in the city centre with free parking (assuming the Horizon will have in Parkway)

Berty

Mc Love wrote: »

All the others - find a suitable location for the store in the city centre with free parking (assuming the Horizon will have in Parkway)

You'd likely get parking subsidised up to an hour if they did charge for parking which is very likely they would charge.

Even Ennis charges for it's poxy Multistorey.

Cookiemunster

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

In regards to The Parkway, I mean that they kept that Dunnes open when they opened Childers Road purely to stop another anchor going in there.

You have that the wrong way round. They own their parkway store and never intended to close it. They took Childers Rd to avoid competition to the parkway.

jmch81

Mc Love wrote: »

Milk Market - the city is dead anyway apart from saturdays when the market is opened and thats only in the morning!

All the others - find a suitable location for the store in the city centre with free parking (assuming the Horizon will have in Parkway)

Went into the milk market on Sunday, not much happening in there and it really annoys me on Saturday the stalls closing early.

Also a location that has planning already, construction started and been built by a professional developer.

Kess73

Brennans Row wrote: »

Limerick Chamber of Commerce: The right strategic move would be for M&S to locate in the city centre - not in the suburbs.

Retail Excellence Ireland: have expressed hopes that the company will reconsider ist decision.

City Hall: Disappointed that a location outside the city had been chosen by M&S.

Milk Market: Limerick city centre will be dead and buried if Marks and Spencer open a store in the Parkway Valley as planned.

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan: The announcement is great news for Limerick.

I wonder what do the County Councillors Jackman, Wade, Butler & Co now think of their own planning legacy?

Source Leader and Live95fm

Guess many are just pointing the finger nice and early so that when the city gets even worse on their watch, they will have yet another thing to blame rather than their own utter incompetence.

bigpink

jmch81 wrote: »

Went into the milk market on Sunday, not much happening in there and it really annoys me on Saturday the stalls closing early.

Also a location that has planning already, construction started and been built by a professional developer.

Totally agree with the stalls closing early they just be open til at least 5 even if its just summer
The sundays are dead which is very strange

sioda

The Saturday stalls address are at a different market Sunday

whatdoicare

iguana wrote: »

Well that's kind of hysterical and just undermines any genuine point you have to make. Especially lhow you complain about car fumes and then go on about the ease of hopping in a car. You are just adding to a problem you are complaining about. Limerick is a very small city with most places accessible by foot and walking places is so tremendously good for you and you live so near the city. While it is an absolute disgrace that the bus service was cancelled that doesn't make the city inaccessible to a healthy, young person living so close by. And as nice as Annacotty and Shelbourne Park as they don't have an art gallery. There is no market nearby at weekends, no museum down the road, you can't have burritos or mezes for lunch or grab a bargain pair of shoes at the great shoe sale that I found on Wednesday on O'Connell St.

The city absolutely needs improving, there is no doubt about that but to say it offers nothing that the suburbs don't is utter nonsense. People need to change their attitudes. I recently moved back to Limerick and while I'm a few minutes closer to town than you are, I walk to town with my son once or twice a week on average. The People's Park is his favourite, he enjoys the art gallery and the market a lot. It's fun for us both, it's healthy for me and the fumes from the cars haven't been an issue Mulgrave St isn't exactly a teeming 6 lane highway (and would be less of an issue if people stopped taking the unnecessary journeys you are all in favour of) and while we shouldn't have to, it's not that hard to dodge the dog shít on Mulgrave St, once you aware of it.

C'mere, I understand you have strong opinions towards the city but calling me hysterical and making out like I'm lazy because I don't share your views is a bit much.

Yes, there are a few museums and that's lovely, I am a regular to the hunt museum and the Limerick Gallery and I collect the old Limerick journals because I am a big fan of my city but it wouldn't be enough to entice me in every day - so back to my original point!!!:mad: Recreate Limerick city as a tourist area with MORE GALLERIES, RESTAURANTS,HISTORICAL SPOTS AND CAFES MAKING THE MOST OF THE CITY!!

Thanks for not bothering to read those points I made instead jumping on me because I don't feel the need to walk all the way into town for a few pound shops and Debenhams and I'm not the only one.

Brennans Row

Kess73 wrote: »

Guess many are just pointing the finger nice and early so that when the city gets even worse on their watch, they will have yet another thing to blame rather than their own utter incompetence.

Your cynicism is bit harsh.

Though the statement from the City Hall of disappointment is much too diplomatic timid for the serious consequences of the M&S decision.

No wonder as Tom Enright originally comes from the County Council.

The time has come for all us to nail our colours to the mast regarding the future of the city centre.

Michael Noonan certainly does, he is in my opinion either anti-Limerick-city or ravening bonkers for supporting another shopping centre that we don't need, which in turn will certainly hurt any prospects that the city-centre has of recovery.

Mc Love

Brennans Row wrote: »

Your cynicism is bit harsh.

Though the statement from the City Hall of disappointment is much too diplomatic timid for the serious consequences of the M&S decision.

No wonder as Tom Enright originally comes from the County Council.

The time has come for all us to nail our colours to the mast regarding the future of the city centre.

Michael Noonan certainly does, he is in my opinion either anti-Limerick-city or ravening bonkers for supporting another shopping centre that we don't need, which in turn will certainly hurt any prospects that the city-centre has of recovery.

Anti limerick for praising a jobs boost to Limerick??

iguana

whatdoicare wrote: »

C'mere, I understand you have strong opinions towards the city but calling me hysterical and making out like I'm lazy because I don't share your views is a bit much.

I didn't call you hysterical I said your reaction about fumes and dog crap to the suggestion of walking was a bit hysterical and I certainly never called you lazy. You live on your own street, so any worry you have about fumes on that street is the same in your own garden or any time you open a window, Bengal Terrace is a quiet Cul de Sac and Mulgrave St is so short walking up and down it once a day isn't going to put anyone in much danger of car fume related ill health. Though you do have to dodge an awful lot of dog crap.

I do find it really, really strange that people in normal physical health find the idea of such a short walk prohibitive. I'm sorry but I do. It's not just you, it seems to be endemic in this city and I think it's one of those vicious circle things that is really hurting Limerick as a whole. Because the more people use their cars, the more businesses set up in areas that focus their accessibility around cars, forcing more people into their cars, etc. There is a reason why cities form as they do with the commercial centre in the actual centre. It makes access easier for everyone, it allows people living in different areas to congregate easier in a centre, it makes sense and once you get into a doughnut effect of the type we have here it's very hard to come back from. It's happening to Limerick and it's happened in enough developed word cities in the last 60 years for us to know what it looks like and what makes it worse. It's a vicious circle that usually gets worse and worse unless people take meaningful steps to break it.

I agree with what you suggest about more festivals and events in the city but it isn't feasible for a city to depend on those events for it's survival unless those events are part of a bigger commercial industry. Limerick isn't Nashville or the Vatican or Brighton, we don't have a massive niche music industry, a vastly wealthy religion or a nearby economic powerhouse with citizens looking for entertainment to draw enough people to support commercial success. More festivals would be great but they are only a tiny, tiny part of what will fix what's wrong. We are just an ordinary, small city that has been victim of terrible planning decisions for the last 50/60 years. Fixing it will take an intelligent, long-term coordinated effort on the part of local government and commercial enterprises but like it or not, this is a capitalist society and change will only happen if the consumers demand it with their actions.

bazz26

For 32 years or so we have been listening to rumours about M&S coming to Limerick, now in the middle of a hard recession they finally announce they are arriving and there are some people whinging about where they are setting up.

At the end of the day they are a business and obviously did some assessment on where they think is the best location and footfall to open and make money. I'm sure things like close vicinity to the Southern Ring Road and plenty of available car park space were also major factor in their decision.

I don't care where they set up as long as they bring jobs to the area which are badly needed. The city centre was dying a lingering death well before this announcement and a M&S was never going to be a shining knight to it's rescue.

Poxyshamrock

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You have that the wrong way round. They own their parkway store and never intended to close it. They took Childers Rd to avoid competition to the parkway.

Same difference I suppose, Cookiemunster! I know for a fact though that Dunnes always wanted a 24hr presence in Limerick and to operate the Parkway would have been more expensive than Childers Road.

phill106

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Same difference I suppose, Cookiemunster! I know for a fact though that Dunnes always wanted a 24hr presence in Limerick and to operate the Parkway would have been more expensive than Childers Road.

Didn't childers road stop being 24 hours?

smcgiff

My wife makes us go shopping to cork every now and then solely for M&S, so it being on the outskirts of Limerick will have little impact on M&S. But it would make a big difference to limerick city centre.

I know a planner who claims to have stopped M&S locating in the crescent some time ago. No idea if his boast is true, but this claim didn't rise him in my estimation.

Jofspring

phill106 wrote: »

Didn't childers road stop being 24 hours?

Ya there is no 24hr shopping in limerick any more. None of the previous 24hr stores stay open anymore past 12.

Mc Love

Isnt Coonagh Cross 24 hr or were you only talking about Dunnes?

bazz26

Tesco in Coonagh close at midnight but open again at 6:00am.

fl4pj4ck

some are only open 24/7 during Xmas period

Insect Overlord

Mc Love wrote: »

Isnt Coonagh Cross 24 hr or were you only talking about Dunnes?

They cut their hours a few months ago. They were the last of the 24 hour supermarkets, I think.

fl4pj4ck

^^ didn't even know that

Brennans Row

bazz26 wrote: »

For 32 years or so we have been listening to rumours about M&S coming to Limerick, now in the middle of a hard recession they finally announce they are arriving and there are some people whinging about where they are setting up.

Those are the very sentiments used by Bertie Ahern at some Ard Fheis against people (whingers) who warned about the dangers of the governments economic policies just before the property bubble burst.

bazz26 wrote: »

I don't care where they set up as long as they bring jobs to the area which are badly needed. The city centre was dying a lingering death well before this announcement and a M&S was never going to be a shining knight to it's rescue.

As a city man, I do care about the city centre's well being.

How many of the new retail outlets will remain in Bedford Row for example when the footfall moves to to the Parkway Valley Shopping Centre?

Imagine visitors staying in the Savoy Hotel and all the neighbouring shops are boarded up.

Do you honestly think that Brown Thomas will be prepared to continue as a department store in Limerick?

Such a downward spiral of retail trade would affect cafés, restaurants, pubs too!

Moving retail jobs and footfall from the city centre to the Parkway Valley Shopping Centre is madness!

Jofspring

These days there is only one reason to head to town and that's for a night out, pubs, clubs and restaurants. As a shopping destination it's a last resort for most limerick people not to mind visitors to the city.

Popoutman

How much difference would it make to city centre businesses if the council reduced rates by e.g. 10%?

30%?

Personally I'll be really happy to have M&S in the Parkway Valley - getting rid of that proper eyesore and danger area that it currently is. I can see it from my house.
A disadvantage would be greater traffic flow in the area, but that's a minor thing when the standard peak time flows are compared with.

Any ideas about other tenants in that area?

bazz26

Brennans Row wrote: »

Those are the very sentiments used by Bertie Ahern at some Ard Fheis against people (whingers) who warned about the dangers of the governments economic policies just before the property bubble burst.



As a city man, I do care about the city centre's well being.

How many of the new retail outlets will remain in Bedford Row for example when the footfall moves to to the Parkway Valley Shopping Centre?

Imagine visitors staying in the Savoy Hotel and all the neighbouring shops are boarded up.

Do you honestly think that Brown Thomas will be prepared to continue as a department store in Limerick?

Such a downward spiral of retail trade would affect cafés, restaurants, pubs too!

Moving retail jobs and footfall from the city centre to the Parkway Valley Shopping Centre is madness!

I hate to be the one to break it but the city decay has well and truly already begun well before this decision.

M&S chose the Parkway Valley. Maybe they looked at the above points you made and decided they didn't want a "flagship" store in a decaying urban centre. Just look at O'Connell Street, the main flagship street of the city with many retail units empty. Not to mention Cruises Street, the disaster that is the abandoned Opera Centre site on Patrick Street and the former Dunes Stores site on Sarsfield Street. As a business owner would you honestly put a flagship store anywhere near these areas?

They chose a location where there is already a good footfall of shoppers in the area. The Childers Road retail Park is busy, the Aldi on the Dublin Road is one of their busiest stores in the country and even the Parkway Shopping Centre is showing signs of rejuvenation lately.

At the end of the day they are a business and don't base their decisions on romantic ideas of what a city centre should be. M&S didn't move retail jobs and footfall from the city centre, they were gone already and M&S just want to follow them.

Brennans Row

bazz26 wrote: »

At the end of the day they are a business and don't base their decisions on romantic ideas of what a city centre should be. M&S didn't move retail jobs and footfall from the city centre, they were gone already and M&S just want to follow them.

I wasn't speaking of the city centre footfall that was already lost to the

• Crescent Shopping Centre,
• Coonagh Shopping Centre,
• Jetland Shopping Centre,
• Castletroy Shopping Centre,
• Parkway Shopping Centre

not to mention the numerous retail parks and the many neighbourhood shopping schemes around the suburbs but of the remaining footfall that still shop in the city centre today.

I'm saying we need to build on what footfall there is left to turn our city centre around into a great place to live, work, shop, socialize that will put our city back on the map as an attractive place after years of mismanagement, reckless poor planning by three local authorities.

Not to mention the NRA who also held back our main streets for years as a national thorough fare.

And hey Marks & Spencer can also operate a business in Galway city centre and Cork city centre too!

What Limerick definitely does not need now in the suburbs is a new shopping centre of 47,000 sq.m. of retail space with 3 anchor tenants plus 75 shop units plus 13 restaurants plus 1,788 car spaces to accommodate a Marks and Spencer!

Its not sustainable.

Cookiemunster

Popoutman wrote: »

How much difference would it make to city centre businesses if the council reduced rates by e.g. 10%?

30%?

Rates in the city and county are to be equalised after the amalgamation. The city reduced rates by 1.5% in 2012 and 5% this year. So it now sits at 71.19. The county is at 59.92, which means the city rate has to come down another 16%.

However this isn't going to be done in one go as currenty rates bring in 37% of the city councils annual budget of €78m (a reduction of €3m on 2012 budget).
In comparison rates make up 26% the county budget of €110m.

Also the city council will cost €900,000 this year (1.15% of budget), while the county council will cost €1m this year (0.9% of budget).
City council obviously costs too much but that will change next June.
Figures are from the annual budgets for each authority.
2013 city budget
2013 county budget

Much more complicated post than I intended :P

damienirel

bazz26 wrote: »

For 32 years or so we have been listening to rumours about M&S coming to Limerick, now in the middle of a hard recession they finally announce they are arriving and there are some people whinging about where they are setting up.

At the end of the day they are a business and obviously did some assessment on where they think is the best location and footfall to open and make money. I'm sure things like close vicinity to the Southern Ring Road and plenty of available car park space were also major factor in their decision.

I don't care where they set up as long as they bring jobs to the area which are badly needed. The city centre was dying a lingering death well before this announcement and a M&S was never going to be a shining knight to it's rescue.

Most sensible comment made here.

Also we can only wait and see if M&S goes ahead - I'd be very skeptical in these recessionary times and based on previous flops in Limerick and Limerick councils.