32 year battle to get Marks&Spencer to Limerick

Johnny_BravoIII

I don't care where they set up as long as they bring jobs

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more.

I find this type of redundant small-picture thinking irritating.
It proliferates all sectors of Irish society. It's was, and still is, the mantra trotted out to justify every stupid decision made in this country in the last 20 years where we disregarded any type of joined-up thinking towards spacial planning.

- Build 200 semi-D's in a bog outside a village in Longford........ya sure, Jobs!!

The big picture here is that the city centre itself has issues that need to be addressed.it's clear much of this is to do with the so-called "donut effect". Surely, long-term the region would be better served with a vibrant city centre.

bazz26

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more.

I find this type of redundant small-picture thinking irritating.
It proliferates all sectors of Irish society. It's was, and still is, the mantra trotted out to justify every stupid decision made in this country in the last 20 years where we disregarded any type of joined-up thinking towards spacial planning.

- Build 200 semi-D's in a bog outside a village in Longford........ya sure, Jobs!!

The big picture here is that the city centre itself has issues that need to be addressed.it's clear much of this is to do with the so-called "donut effect". Surely, long-term the region would be better served with a vibrant city centre.

Then maybe we shouldn't be so dependant on another foreign owned chain of retail outlets to fix problems caused by bad management and planning. Would some people prefer they either setup shop in the city centre or gone to another part of the country altogether? Surely the big picture here is that a M&S opening in the city centre is not going to cure the city centre's problems?

Johnny_BravoIII

Then maybe we shouldn't be so dependant on another foreign owned chain of retail outlets to fix problems caused by bad management and planning.

I don't understand the emphasis on "foreign owned".
But I'm not; I'm saying good management and planning fixes bad management and planning.

Would some people prefer they either setup shop in the city centre or gone to another part of the country altogether?

Is that the choice?

Surely the big picture here is that a M&S opening in the city centre is not going to cure the city centre's problems?

Nope, the big picture is curing the city center's problems.
A vibrant city center within 10 years should be the ultimate goal.
Everything else should be subservient to that goal.

Poxyshamrock

bazz26 wrote: »

Then maybe we shouldn't be so dependant on another foreign owned chain of retail outlets to fix problems caused by bad management and planning. Would some people prefer they either setup shop in the city centre or gone to another part of the country altogether? Surely the big picture here is that a M&S opening in the city centre is not going to cure the city centre's problems?

Opening an M&S in the city would no do no harm either.
Opening in the suburbs will!
Simple as!

bazz26

Well I disagree. M&S made a business decision to open in a location where they think they will be more successful. In doing so it will potentially create up to 250 retail jobs which the region needs. This imo is better than another 32 years of will they or won't they come to Limerick.

Berty

Look, its a flagship store. It's going to be big. There is no city centre location that can house it. Arguments here are futile.

Johnny_BravoIII

Well I disagree.

What do you disagree with?

It sounds like you don't really care what happens to the city center.
Do you understand the consequences that continued urban decay would have for the city and the whole mid-west region?

If so, do you not realise that it's more important than M&S?

Look, its a flagship store. It's going to be big. There is no city centre location that can house it.

There's an M&S in Athlone town centre shopping centre.

bazz26

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

What do you disagree with?

I disagree with the point that M&S coming to the region creating up to 250 jobs is a bad thing.

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

It sounds like you don't really care what happens to the city center.
Do you understand the consequences that continued urban decay would have for the city and the whole mid-west region?

If so, do you not realise that it's more important than M&S?



There's an M&S in Athlone town centre shopping centre.

Don't put words in people's mouths. I never once said I didn't care about the city centre. But the simple reality is that M&S are not going into the city centre, they have made their decision. I just don't have this romantic view that another large retailer in the city centre is going to turn urban decay into a buzzing metropolises.

So I'll ask the question again, would people prefer if M&S went somewhere else altogether like say Galway? How would that be a positive thing for Limerick or the Mid West?

Berty

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

There's an M&S in Athlone town centre shopping centre.

It's not a flagship store

It's tiny

Even clonmel is small but still bigger than Athlone. Check out Galway, its pokey.

The new M&S in Douglas in cork is like a Tesco Express going by its size.

Liffey Valley is the kind of store that springs to mind when I think of a Flahship.

damienirel

Beer Baron wrote: »

It's not a flagship store

It's tiny

Even clonmel is small but still bigger than Athlone. Check out Galway, its pokey.

The new M&S in Douglas in cork is like a Tesco Express going by its size.

Liffey Valley is the kind of store that springs to mind when I think of a Flahship.

Liffey Valley is dwarfed by the one in Lisburn - it's gigantic - apparently it's only the third biggest in the UK! We have tiny stores in the Republic due to high rates/rents and stupid restrictions. It's time this country moved on!!

Berty

Maybe the country is moving on. This developer got the land and property at a low price compared to Pre recession pricing so can afford to compete and offer reduced rent for a major anchor.

The missus said that a massive Penny's would be a dream tenant for her.

Personally I'd like a nice foodcourt.

Mc Love

I second that - one thing ireland is lacking is proper food courts!

Johnny_BravoIII

On a side topic:
I don't quite get the passion in Limerick for M&S? Can anybody explain this to me? It seems quite a hot topic locally? Is it not just a fancy supermarket?
But in all squareness, how exciting can a supermarket be?
From what I can see, their clothes seem to be quite "dunnes stores-ish". Although, they do sell quite nice pesto pizza.

I just don't have this romantic view that another large retailer in the city centre is going to turn urban decay into a buzzing metropolises.

Another significant retailer opening in the suburbs is really really really bad for the city centre. I'm not saying Marks & Spencers is the silver-bullet, far from it, but it's a significant step in the wrong direction.

Does everybody not agree that the decay of the city centre is a bad thing?

..........Footfall continues to decline, retailers continue to close, the town centre continues to slow down unable to sustain huge numbers of local businesses ( everything from newsagents to professional services), huge amounts of jobs and revenue are lost, local taxes tumble, tourism remains non-existent, hotels start to suffer more,, rents go down, a lower class of tenant is attracted in, property values decline, inward investment for the wider region is affected as overseas corporations refuse to locate here............etc etc....

I mean is it not clear what it happening?
In the face of the above scenario, do local people just not care?
Or is it just a combination of ignorance and the dream of pesto pizza and 200 minimum wage jobs?

IsaacWunder

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

On a side topic:
I don't quite get the passion in Limerick for M&S? Can anybody explain this to me? It seems quite a hot topic locally? Is it not just a fancy supermarket?

I think half of it is genuine demand for it, the other half is people unhappy that Cork and Galway have a Marks and believe Limerick is somewhat lacking due to it's absence. I'm not being facetious.

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

But in all squareness, how exciting can a supermarket be?
From what I can see, their clothes seem to be quite "dunnes stores-ish". Although, they do sell quite nice pesto pizza.

Marks and Spencer make good quality stuff. With the insane decision to turn Superquinn into a Supervalu, I can see Marks doing quite well in the premium end of the food market as Superquinn would be their primary competitor here. As regards clothing, they'd be more Debenhams than Dunnes.

Regarding your other comments, half the people on this thread probably haven't been into the city centre in the last six months, and could care less what happens to the place. My view is it's a disaster to open another out of town shopping centre. All the 250 jobs are going to do is displace hundreds more. This could be the final death knell for retail in the city.

Johnny_BravoIII

I disagree with the point that M&S coming to the region creating up to 250 jobs is a bad thing.

M&S coming to parkway is bad for Limerick city centre jobs.

I think half of it is genuine demand for it, the other half is people unhappy that Cork and Galway have a Marks and believe Limerick is somewhat lacking due to it's absence. I'm not being facetious.

Is that it?
Snubbed by M&S for 32 years, we roll out the red carpet across the dead body of city centre retail?

Marks and Spencer make good quality stuff. With the insane decision to turn Superquinn into a Supervalu, I can see Marks doing quite well in the premium end of the food market as Superquinn would be their primary competitor here. As regards clothing, they'd be more Debenhams than Dunnes.

Ok Debenhams, but hardly setting the world on fire. Bland mid-range jeans and jumpers type of thing?
I agree with you that it will do unbelievable trade. It will break records as the people of limerick eat and sleep in the promised last of pesto pizza and comfortable shoes.

I suppose my point is; it's just a shop, a retail store, a place where one buy's one's fancy cocktail sausages on a family occasion.

In the face of the devastation that another ginormous popular "shopping mall" could reek on the city centre, would it not be worth-while to stop and think?

Did the madness of the last 20 years teach us nothing?
Are bling-bling property developers still the people we want in charge of regional planning and spacial development?

My opinion is the city is approaching a tipping point.

Regarding your other comments, half the people on this thread probably haven't been into the city centre in the last six months, and could care less what happens to the place.

Again, as an outsider, it's another localism I fail to understand, but I think that's really the nub of it.

Surely, if something is broken, the conversation should be about how do we fix it?

How do we convince the spotless land-cruiser brigade that the city centre is relevant to life in castleconnell?