The loose cannon that is Jeremy Clarkson

fedor.2.

Fizman wrote: »

How the fcuk did this post get so many thanks so quickly? Are there that many stupid people in AHs?

Eh yes, you should know this by now

Dudess

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

He's someone that relentlessly speaks his mind in an age and industry where everything said is controlled by political correctness, media spin and marketing.

Do I agree with everything he says? No.
Do I respect him for saying it as he sees it? Yes.

Seems more like he's out to get attention and wind people up rather than the integrity-rich stuff you maintain.

Sonics2k

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Once again, point being completely missed, and i normally expect better of you Sonics.

Which part of a suicidal mindset do you think pays the most attention to logic or reason?

I'll clear up my point.

I have, in the past attempted suicide, by trying to overdose on painkillers and alcohol. I had 4 friends who have killed themselves by various means.

I can acknowledge, suicide in itself is an incredibly selfish act, even when you're not in the right state of mind. Thoughts are only really filled with self, and ending the "pain" you're in. You convince yourself that your family and friends will be upset, but will move on and be happy.

But they won't. Your Parents or Children will forever have that memory of you, and will (at times) hate you for being so selfish and doing what you did.

Now, in the case of people who commit suicide by jumping off bridges onto cars, in front of trains and trucks. You're not only affecting your personal family, but also a complete stranger. You are forcing someone to kill you by jumping in front of their car.
In the eyes of a lot of these drivers, they have just killed someone, and many end up losing their jobs because of it, they are completely unable to work there anymore. Some people are so traumatized they never get to function properly, and so it greatly affects their lives, and even their own families.

So yes, killing yourself by having someone else do it for you, against their will, is incredibly selfish, no matter the mind frame they are in.

Dudess

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

St.Spodo wrote: »

Stewart Lee satirized the politically incorrect bravado act really well/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0i0RXMvzMs

What an unpleasant, hate filled man.

Yeah Clarkson sure is.

tea_drinker

i dont know whether to laugh or cry at the insensitivity and ignorance of some posters on this topic

do they not think the person who commits suicide had enough pain in thier life without branding them selfish on top , its as bad as people who add religon to some peoples pain

if someone is so unhappy that they feel the need to kill themselves , then i for one would not insist on them continuing thier wretched existance just so others might be spared unpleasantness , frankly i think those who condemn suicide victims as selfish are themselves incredibly selfish , i have seen depression and it leaves people a walking corpse , i would never be so cold as to insist that they live out thier sentance even it means being miserable for the nest fifty years , most of the arguements surrounding suicide are riddled with group think shallow cliche , permanent solution to a temporary problem and other such drivel , some problems are not temporary but some are and besides , not everyone committs suicide due to the fact that they are having money problems or other tangible things , some people have deep seated issues going back years which finally cause them to crack , its simplistic in the extreme to think that chatting to some shrink can make a person right as rain , i think a lot of this thinking is down to our quick fix culture nowadays , thier is nothing that cant be bought etc and happiness is just another one of them , thier will always be cruelty in the world and thier will always be people who are unable to live with the misery causes by this cruelty , i for one would perfer a relative to end it than be condemned to an undignified life of depression and misery , id be sad for a while but at the end of the day , who am i to say who cant control thier own destiny , maybe its the libertarian in me but i often wonder are those who condemn others who commit suicide , control freaks who think they should have a say in how other people react or deal with personal issues


ps , clarkson is an attention seeking provocateur who usually gets what he wants from the press

Captain Darling

St.Spodo wrote: »

Stewart Lee satirized the politically incorrect bravado act really well/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0i0RXMvzMs

'His outrageous politically incorrect comments which he makes for money'

Brilliant!

tea_drinker

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'll clear up my point.

I have, in the past attempted suicide, by trying to overdose on painkillers and alcohol. I had 4 friends who have killed themselves by various means.

I can acknowledge, suicide in itself is an incredibly selfish act, even when you're not in the right state of mind. Thoughts are only really filled with self, and ending the "pain" you're in. You convince yourself that your family and friends will be upset, but will move on and be happy.

But they won't. Your Parents or Children will forever have that memory of you, and will (at times) hate you for being so selfish and doing what you did.

Now, in the case of people who commit suicide by jumping off bridges onto cars, in front of trains and trucks. You're not only affecting your personal family, but also a complete stranger. You are forcing someone to kill you by jumping in front of their car.
In the eyes of a lot of these drivers, they have just killed someone, and many end up losing their jobs because of it, they are completely unable to work there anymore. Some people are so traumatized they never get to function properly, and so it greatly affects their lives, and even their own families.

So yes, killing yourself by having someone else do it for you, against their will, is incredibly selfish, no matter the mind frame they are in.

i think its presumpteous and a tad vain to think that our friends and family could never go on without us , i realise ego is a wonderfull thing but at the end of the day everybody is thier own individual , people do move on , thats the reality

Sonics2k

tea_drinker wrote: »

i think its presumpteous and a tad vain to think that our friends and family could never go on without us , i realise ego is a wonderfull thing but at the end of the day everybody is thier own individual , people do move on , thats the reality

I never said they wouldn't move on. I said they'd never forget you.

L.Jenkins

thebostoncrab wrote: »

...and? He is right, suicide is selfish.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Suicide is selfish. He's right on that one.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well it is selfish, what do you want to do hand people a medal for doing it.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The train driver will know for the rest of his life that he played a part in someones death. It is selfish.

Yeah because people wake up one morning and think to themselves, is there something I can do today to prove I'm a selfish cúnt! Get a clue before you make stupid fúcking comments. Even better, drop by a Samaritans and they may educate you on the anguish most people suffer before offing themselves.

Sonics2k

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Yeah because people wake up one morning and think to themselves, is there something I can do today to prove I'm a selfish cúnt! Get a clue before you make stupid fúcking comments. Even better, drop by a Samaritans and they may educate you on the anguish most people suffer before offing themselves.

You're missing the point.

In the case Clarkson was talking about, killing yourself by having someone else forcibly do it for you is selfish. You are forcing this person to kill you, which will most likely have a devastating impact on their own life.

Some poor bloke driving his train, doesn't exactly want to quite literally, splat someone over the front of their train right in front of they're eyes.

That is why it is selfish. Forget the mental anguish of the person committing suicide, and think of the person that "killed" them.

tea_drinker

Sonics2k wrote: »

I never said they wouldn't move on. I said they'd never forget you.

family never forgets you no matter what way you die

sunflower27

Hate the term selfish being used for anyone that commits suicide.

Committing such a final act like that is not selfish, it is desperately sad. To not see a way out, to have gone beyond caring that others will miss you and will grieve you... that must be an absolutely horrific place to be and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I watched The Bridge online earlier this year. Very sad but insightful look into the minds of people that commit suicide.

tea_drinker

Sonics2k wrote: »

You're missing the point.

In the case Clarkson was talking about, killing yourself by having someone else forcibly do it for you is selfish. You are forcing this person to kill you, which will most likely have a devastating impact on their own life.

Some poor bloke driving his train, doesn't exactly want to quite literally, splat someone over the front of their train right in front of they're eyes.

That is why it is selfish. Forget the mental anguish of the person committing suicide, and think of the person that "killed" them.

this is a fair point , throwing yourself in front of a train is involving someone else ( the train driver )

44leto

He's great, love his humour and his intelligent funny articles. He co writes Top Gear and that show is watched by nearly 3 billion people that is how successful that show is. It is a good laugh, but I put that down to the luck of the chemistry between the 3 presenters and not just him.

Paparazzo

If I ever kill myself, I'll wear womens pants, just to embarrass the family

tea_drinker

sunflower27 wrote: »

Hate the term selfish being used for anyone that commits suicide.

Committing such a final act like that is not selfish, it is desperately sad. To not see a way out, to have gone beyond caring that others will miss you and will grieve you... that must be an absolutely horrific place to be and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I watched The Bridge online earlier this year. Very sad but insightful look into the minds of people that commit suicide.

an even dumber view is that its a cowards way out when by any objective anylisis , the act is anything but cowardly , taking the ultimate step into the complete unknown , its incredibly brave , then again any number of dumb common views seem to have become accepted reality

Captain Darling

Sonics2k wrote: »

You're missing the point.

In the case Clarkson was talking about, killing yourself by having someone else forcibly do it for you is selfish. You are forcing this person to kill you, which will most likely have a devastating impact on their own life.

Some poor bloke driving his train, doesn't exactly want to quite literally, splat someone over the front of their train right in front of they're eyes.

That is why it is selfish. Forget the mental anguish of the person committing suicide, and think of the person that "killed" them.

I believe you are missing the point. The terror, depression and agony that drove the person to commit suicide is a place that not many people get as far as. They get to the stage where they can no longer tolerate being in their skin and want to get away from life. The abject misery of that position can never be construed as selfish.

As it stands i know many train drivers who have been involved in these type of incidents. The only description i have heard from any of them is that it is sad. Sad for the person killed, sad for their family and yes sad for the driver of the train.

Anybody who thinks someone who commits suicide is selfish is a dick, particularly Jeremy fcuking Clarkson.

Sonics2k

sunflower27 wrote: »

Hate the term selfish being used for anyone that commits suicide.

Committing such a final act like that is not selfish, it is desperately sad. To not see a way out, to have gone beyond caring that others will miss you and will grieve you... that must be an absolutely horrific place to be and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I watched The Bridge online earlier this year. Very sad but insightful look into the minds of people that commit suicide.

Causing a huge trauma to another individual (stranger or not) is selfish.

It is of course horribly sad when someone gets so low they kill themselves, I've been there. But part of suicidal thoughts are self-pity and self-hatred. Convincing yourself that everyone else will be better off without you, that you are meaningless, lost and without hope. It can happen from dozens of things, natural depression, sexuality, being abused or beaten, or losing your family.
I'm not saying suicide isn't a terrible event, I am saying it's selfish to get a complete stranger to kill you.

kevmol88

Catherine Johnstone, Samaritans' chief executive, said: "The insensitivity of Jeremy Clarkson's comments in his Sun column today about people who die by suicide on the railways truly beggars belief. While purporting to express sympathy for people who die this way, his remarks about their bodies constitute gross intrusion into the grief and shock of bereaved families and friends."

Sonics2k

tea_drinker wrote: »

an even dumber view is that its a cowards way out when by any objective anylisis , the act is anything but cowardly , taking the ultimate step into the complete unknown , its incredibly brave , then again any number of dumb common views seem to have become accepted reality

Bullshít it's fúcking brave.

One of my closest friends committed suicide 7 years ago, leaving behind his fionce and kid. She spent years in complete depression, their son is only just starting to get over it.

It's a god damn cowards way out, and I say that as someone who attempted suicide, and realised what I was doing was completely selfish, disgusting and wrong.

tea_drinker

Sonics2k wrote: »

Causing a huge trauma to another individual (stranger or not) is selfish.

It is of course horribly sad when someone gets so low they kill themselves, I've been there. But part of suicidal thoughts are self-pity and self-hatred. Convincing yourself that everyone else will be better off without you, that you are meaningless, lost and without hope. It can happen from dozens of things, natural depression, sexuality, being abused or beaten, or losing your family.
I'm not saying suicide isn't a terrible event, I am saying it's selfish to get a complete stranger to kill you.

some people have every reason to feel self pity and tell me , what are grief stricken friends and family of a suicidee guilt of but self pity , is self pity only ok for those who are left behind ? , not everyone is lucky in terms of the upbringing they had etc and btw , its often the familys of suicide victims who caused the person to be depressed in the first place , the mind and spirit are complex things , once someonce succumbs to depression , its doesnt matter if all in sundry are telling them how awesome they are , they dont buy it

Corkfeen

Sonics2k wrote: »

Bullshít it's fúcking brave.

One of my closest friends committed suicide 7 years ago, leaving behind his fionce and kid. She spent years in complete depression, their son is only just starting to get over it.

It's a god damn cowards way out, and I say that as someone who attempted suicide, and realised what I was doing was completely selfish, disgusting and wrong.

I wouldn't consider it to be brave but it's not cowardly either. In fact, I'd say many of the terms being used in this topic aren't appropriate for the subject matter at all. When a person has reached the point where they're going to kill themselves, they are incapable of even processing their thoughts fully and logically. It's not selfish behaviour, it's simply the point where someone hits rock bottom in life mentally.

tea_drinker

Sonics2k wrote: »

Bullshít it's fúcking brave.

One of my closest friends committed suicide 7 years ago, leaving behind his fionce and kid. She spent years in complete depression, their son is only just starting to get over it.

It's a god damn cowards way out, and I say that as someone who attempted suicide, and realised what I was doing was completely selfish, disgusting and wrong.

really , i didnt commit suicide on more than occasion because i hadnt the guts , the only reason its branded a cowards way out is so to create a deterant , i.e , being cowardly is seen as shamefull so by definition if i kill myself , il be branded a coward and i dont want that , result = person stays alive , its just another way of society conditioning people into acting a certain way

orchidsrpretty

Sonics2k wrote: »

Bullshít it's fúcking brave.

One of my closest friends committed suicide 7 years ago, leaving behind his fionce and kid. She spent years in complete depression, their son is only just starting to get over it.

It's a god damn cowards way out, and I say that as someone who attempted suicide, and realised what I was doing was completely selfish, disgusting and wrong.

Depending on your method, attempting suidice is not really the same as actually doing it. Its pretty easy to kill yourself and not very many people who have actually decided to do it fail.
If you had decided to throw your self in front of a train, theres not really much backing out at the last mintute, therefore a person in such desperation who kills themselves is a pretty couragous thing for them to do, they have taken control of their own life.

LighterGuy

Cant believe people are debating the whole "selfish" comment on here.

Rather than just saying Clarkson is an asshole who just wants attention.

tea_drinker

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Depending on your method, attempting suidice is not really the same as actually doing it. Its pretty easy to kill yourself and not very many people who have actually decided to do it fail.
If you had decided to throw your self in front of a train, theres not really much backing out at the last mintute, therefore a person in such desperation who kills themselves is a pretty couragous thing for them to do, they have taken control of their own life.

yes and voluntering for pain ( however brief ) is usually seen as corageous , as i said earlier , by any objective ( unemotional ) anylisis , its a brave act

John Doe1

while jumping in front of a train to kill oneself is perhaps slightly inconsiderate, i dont think suicide in general is selfish its an act of desperation by someone in extreme pain

L.Jenkins

Sonics2k wrote: »

You're missing the point.

If a person with suicidal tendencies was in the right frame of mind to weight up what methods of suicide causes little convinence to others then I doubt very much anyone would commit suicide at all.

The consequences of jumping in front of a train, bus or car is the last thing on a persons mind.

Sonics2k

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

The consequences of jumping in front of a train, bus or car is the last thing on a persons mind.

Making it a selfish act.

Bannasidhe

tea_drinker wrote: »

i think its presumpteous and a tad vain to think that our friends and family could never go on without us , i realise ego is a wonderfull thing but at the end of the day everybody is thier own individual , people do move on , thats the reality

I'll tell my cousin that so - and she can go and get her daughter out of the psychiatric unit she (the daughter) has been a regular patient in ever since finding her father's body after he hanged himself 5 years ago.

The man in question was so deep in despair that he rang his son and daughter to come over at a specific time - the daughter - aged 17 at the time - got there before her brother. The poor young one is convinced that if she had been a few minutes earlier, she could have saved him. In reality, he was dead half an hour before she got there - 10 minutes before the time he told her to be there by. The man timed it so his children would be the ones to find him. Tell me that isn't selfish!

If a person believes their life has become untenable and they wish to end it - then they can do so. They do not have the right to force another person to 'kill' them - which is what jumping in front of a train/Tube/Car is. They are not committing suicide - they are forcing a stranger into committing manslaughter.

L.Jenkins

Sonics2k wrote: »

Making it a selfish act.

I don't want to get into a circular argument, but if someone really thought the act of suicide through, then it may not happen. Like killing someone in a murderous rage, suicide too is often an act of impulse taking the first oppurtunity that arises. So I don't think it's selfish.

Dudess

Imagine being in so much physical pain that you want someone to shoot you to end the misery. Being suicidal is the very same thing, only the pain is emotional - if someone is overwhelmed by that much agony, there's no way they are capable of rationalising.

Chuck Stone

So suicide is selfish now? What a thoughtless and selfish view to hold. 'Look what you did to me in taking your own life - poor me'.

Think about it for a sec folks. When you fall you put out your hands instinctively to protect yourself. When there's a loud bang you jump - you're instinct to fight-or-flight to protect your life instinctively kicks in.

Self-preservation is a very strong instinct. For your self-preservation instinct to be so grossly overridden that you take your own life must mean that the person no longer puts any value on his/her 'self'. There must be some sort of feeling of detachment from the self.

Do people even realise that a suicidal person may be thinking that their families and loved ones are better off without them? Perhaps they feel a burden on the people around them and think that they are doing the world a favour?

No wonder there's a stigma around suicide.

ItsAWindUp

What a retard

John Doe1

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Do people even realise that a suicidal person may be thinking that their families and loved ones are better off without them? Perhaps they feel a burden on the people around them and think that they are doing the world a favour?

No wonder there's a stigma around suicide.

Ive been in that exact mindset, thankfully a lot better now

Bannasidhe

My point is that people who throw themselves in front of a train are not committing suicide - they are forcing someone else to kill them. If a person, for whatever reason, wishes to take their own life - that is their decision. But to force someone else to take your life- against their will - is selfish.

They are not taking their own life - a stranger is taking their life.

My name is URL

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My point is that people who throw themselves in front of a train are not committing suicide - they are forcing someone else to kill them. If a person, for whatever reason, wishes to take their own life - that is their decision. But to force someone else to take your life- against their will - is selfish.

They are not taking their own life - a stranger is taking their life.

That's a silly way to look at it. A stranger is not taking their life, the stranger (in your scenario) has zero control over the incident. All the stranger is is an unfortunate witness to the actions of another individual.

drdeadlift

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My point is that people who throw themselves in front of a train are not committing suicide - they are forcing someone else to kill them. If a person, for whatever reason, wishes to take their own life - that is their decision. But to force someone else to take your life- against their will - is selfish.

They are not taking their own life - a stranger is taking their life.

I dont think the person committing suicide thinks about the person driving the train.Its not selfish in anyway.

Chuck Stone

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My point is that people who throw themselves in front of a train are not committing suicide - they are forcing someone else to kill them.

So if it's not suicide then what is it? It's hardly manslaughter on the part of the train driver.

Sonics2k

My name is URL wrote: »

That's a silly way to look at it. A stranger is not taking their life, the stranger (in your scenario) has zero control over the incident. All the stranger is is an unfortunate witness to the actions of another individual.

It doesn't matter if they have zero control, in fact it doesn't help at all.

Imagine you're driving down the road, and someone jumps in front of your car and they die.
You're not going to think "oh well that wasn't my fault, i'll go about my business now", you're going to think "OH MY FÚCK I JUST KILLED SOMEONE". And this what happens to those who are involved in these incidents.

@drdeadlift
That would be the definition of selfish. Not thinking of others.

My name is URL

Sonics2k wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they have zero control, in fact it doesn't help at all.

Imagine you're driving down the road, and someone jumps in front of your car and they die.
You're not going to think "oh well that wasn't my fault, i'll go about my business now", you're going to think "OH MY FÚCK I JUST KILLED SOMEONE". And this what happens to those who are involved in these incidents.

I didn't say that it wouldn't be hard on the people involved. I just don't think that saying that the person who has died from suicide forced another person to kill them. They used the mechanics and physics of the vehicle to kill them, but not the person.. at least not on any conscious level.

Sonics2k

Well that's just arguing semantics really Url.

It's like saying a man with a gun didn't kill someone, the physics of the bullet tearing through the internal organs killed them.

For the record, I'm not trying to be a dick about those who commit suicide, as I've said before I've gone through it and have had friends take their lives.

But in my eyes, jumping in front of a moving vehicle to kill yourself is a selfish act. You're basically getting someone else to do your dirty work.

tea_drinker

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'll tell my cousin that so - and she can go and get her daughter out of the psychiatric unit she (the daughter) has been a regular patient in ever since finding her father's body after he hanged himself 5 years ago.

The man in question was so deep in despair that he rang his son and daughter to come over at a specific time - the daughter - aged 17 at the time - got there before her brother. The poor young one is convinced that if she had been a few minutes earlier, she could have saved him. In reality, he was dead half an hour before she got there - 10 minutes before the time he told her to be there by. The man timed it so his children would be the ones to find him. Tell me that isn't selfish!

If a person believes their life has become untenable and they wish to end it - then they can do so. They do not have the right to force another person to 'kill' them - which is what jumping in front of a train/Tube/Car is. They are not committing suicide - they are forcing a stranger into committing manslaughter.

see one of my earlier posts , i said jumping infront of a train was a involving someone else in the suicide , you can see that as inconsiderate without seeing suicide itself as selfish , as for that lady who is five years in a psychiatric unit , id have my doubts about that , unless you murder someone and are found guilty but insane , you wont be kept in a psychiatric unit for that length of time , its just not how its done in 2011

tea_drinker

Dudess wrote: »

Imagine being in so much physical pain that you want someone to shoot you to end the misery. Being suicidal is the very same thing, only the pain is emotional - if someone is overwhelmed by that much agony, there's no way they are capable of rationalising.

to deny someone the right to end that pain is selfish , someone who is so depressed that they want to die is no use to anyone , they are dead , thier heart just happens to be beating

My name is URL

Wow, I really hope that nobody you care about ever suffers from depression.

Chuck Stone

tea_drinker wrote: »

someone who is so depressed that they want to die is no use to anyone , they are dead

WTF?

They're dead? Depression is not a terminal condition. People recover.

Are you serious?

KeithM89_old

tea_drinker wrote: »

to deny someone the right to end that pain is selfish , someone who is so depressed that they want to die is no use to anyone , they are dead , thier heart just happens to be beating

Bye bye mr.re-reg.

steelcityblues

I would have a lot more respect for Mr. Clarkson, if he didn't get paid well by a public broadcaster for years.

Money where your mouth is, and what not.

brendanL

I agree that it's a selfish thing to do... jumping under a train that is. To claim otherwise is just plain silly.

Is it bad that the people are the train are more sorry to be late for work then the fact some guy just died infront of them yes of course.

But he killed himself knowing that.. possibly even doing it as an outcry for some attention.

It's just a bad thing to do.. emotionally for the driver and for the person who does it. To inflict that kind of trauma on someone else as a result of your own situation is selfish.

However, most of the people who do it are in dark places in their minds, who knows what they're thinking more likely they're not thinking like we do at all. That's why they do these things.

What Clarkson said may of helped someone from doing something stupid... that's how I see it ;D

heavyballs

Hogzy wrote: »

It is selfish. When a person commits suicide all they are thinking about is themselves. They dont even consider their family and the effect their death will have on them.

Obviously this is due to some mental imbalance caused by SEVERE depression so its an excusable selfishness. But it is selfish by definition.

.

you can't say they this, " When a person commits suicide all they are thinking about is themselves".
and then say," Obviously this is due to some mental imbalance caused by SEVERE depression so its an excusable selfishness. "

the fact is when a person does this they are thinking of anything really,they just want to end it and selfishness doesn't get a look in,neither does rational thinking etc,you're correct about one thing you said......they don't think of their families at all,if they did they wouldn't do it,how many people think about doing it everyday but don't........i would say a lot