The loose cannon that is Jeremy Clarkson

Irish Guitarist

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Yeah because people wake up one morning and think to themselves, is there something I can do today to prove I'm a selfish cúnt! Get a clue before you make stupid fúcking comments. Even better, drop by a Samaritans and they may educate you on the anguish most people suffer before offing themselves.

I didn't say people who commit suicide are selfish. I said people who commit suicide in this specific way are selfish.

I suffer from depression and many years ago I contemplated (and once attempted) suicide. I didn't, however, consider throwing myself in front of a train so as many people as possible could witness my demise.

I can see how someone who suffers from depression might not consider how their death will affect their family. However I don't understand how someone can't foresee how jumping in front of a train will affect everyone who witnesses it.

L.Jenkins

If you jump in front of a train or hang yourself, it will have profound effect on those who find you regardless. Some methods are alittle extreme, but when someone is intent, rational goes out the window <--- A point most people have been trying to hammer home.

So I'll repeat myself, I don't think its selfish, just ill thought out in some cases due to impulse.

philologos

My name is URL wrote: »

I didn't say that it wouldn't be hard on the people involved. I just don't think that saying that the person who has died from suicide forced another person to kill them. They used the mechanics and physics of the vehicle to kill them, but not the person.. at least not on any conscious level.

But, that is what they have done if they run out in front of a car or a train. The train driver, or the motorist is essentially a means to an end - death. Without the motorist or the train driver the car / train wouldn't be moving.

Anything else is just trying to downplay reality surely?

Da Shins Kelly

Using the term 'selfish' to describe suicide really bothers me for some reason. It just seems like a remnant of religious, particularly Catholic, views towards the act. It's got extremely negative implications, I think.

Suicidal thoughts are not something most of us will ever experience. I can't even imagine what goes through the mind of a suicidal person, and I hope I never know. It seems to me, from what I know (and I don't claim to be an expert on such matters), that people who commit suicide often believe that they're doing the people around them a favour and lifting a burden - that everyone would be better off without them. Sure, sometimes the methods can be quite gruesome, but suicidal people do not think rationally, obviously.

philologos

^^ You're missing the content of the subject. We're not talking about suicide in general, we're talking about suicide by jumping in front of a train, or jumping in front of someone else's car.

That's selfish in my view.

As for claiming it is Catholic thinking. Jeremy Clarkson's an atheist. I'm a Christian but non-Catholic. I understand that chronic depression is a significant issue and I would never deny that it is. However inflicting your pain onto others around you is by definition selfish. That's common morality I would have thought.

fryup

what clarkson is basically saying is if you're going to do it, then do it in such a way that you'll won't be a burden to others

Wibbs

philologos wrote: »

^^ You're missing the content of the subject. We're not talking about suicide in general, we're talking about suicide by jumping in front of a train, or jumping in front of someone else's car.

That's selfish in my view.

As for claiming it is Catholic thinking. Jeremy Clarkson's an atheist. I'm a Christian but non-Catholic. I understand that chronic depression is a significant issue and I would never deny that it is. However inflicting your pain onto others around you is by definition selfish. That's common morality I would have thought.

Aye, but common morality goes out the window in the face of diminished responsibility when mental illness comes into it. The law recognises this in the case of murder/unlawful killing when it comes to insanity. Sane = Prison/electric chair(in the US) Insane = Psychiatric facility. So while to the sane mind suicide is a selfish act(though I'd define it as self centered), one can't apply that logic to someone whose life and mind is in such a state of distress they break the strongest instinct in humans of self preservation.

Indeed some suicides think they're actually doing those around them a favour by taking themselves out of their lives. Which is the thought of a less selfish if highly confused mind.

Irish Guitarist

Some people are really missing the point. Suicide isn't selfish. Forcing another person to live with the fact that they played a part in your death is selfish.

sh1tstirrer

fryup wrote: »

what clarkson is basically saying is if you're going to do it, then do it in such a way that you'll won't be a burden to others

So what are the chances of Clarkson throwing himself over London bridge But he would be a burden on the emergency services then. He could go on a long boat journey to the Bermuda triangle and sink his boat, he disappeared in the Bermuda triangle problem solved

Spacedog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgABbHPdwH4

Bannasidhe

tea_drinker wrote: »

see one of my earlier posts , i said jumping infront of a train was a involving someone else in the suicide , you can see that as inconsiderate without seeing suicide itself as selfish , as for that lady who is five years in a psychiatric unit , id have my doubts about that , unless you murder someone and are found guilty but insane , you wont be kept in a psychiatric unit for that length of time , its just not how its done in 2011

I clearly said 'has been a regular patient' not permanent - a previously happy, healthy, fit 17 found her father's body - as he planned - and subsequently developed anorexic, had addiction issues and suffers from severe depression and has been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Shock which has resulted in her becoming an in-patient ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS over the last 5 years.

Before commenting on posts and inferring people are lying Do try reading them PROPERLY.

Da Shins Kelly

philologos wrote: »

^^ You're missing the content of the subject. We're not talking about suicide in general, we're talking about suicide by jumping in front of a train, or jumping in front of someone else's car.

That's selfish in my view.

As for claiming it is Catholic thinking. Jeremy Clarkson's an atheist. I'm a Christian but non-Catholic. I understand that chronic depression is a significant issue and I would never deny that it is. However inflicting your pain onto others around you is by definition selfish. That's common morality I would have thought.

As I said, people who commit suicide are not thinking rationally. They want to be gone, they see a train coming and they immediately decide to do it. They're not making a conscious decision to inflict their pain on others, which actually would make it selfish. I don't understand why people here are trying to project their own rationale onto someone who wants to die. Often these people think that it'd be better for everyone else if they were no longer here.

Also, you don't have to be a practicising Catholic or Christian to be still affected by the thinking of a religion that has dominated and continues to dominate much of society's thinking. Everyone is affected to some extent by religion, whether they believe in it or not.

Superbus

I'm surprised more haven't made the point that he's complaining that it's selfish, because it slightly delays people's commute.

Surely the selfishness is on the other side there.

Spudmonkey

The man is like O'Leary, he loves the bit of publicity. Only that the only thing he has to publicize is the fact he is a tool....

philologos

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

As I said, people who commit suicide are not thinking rationally. They want to be gone, they see a train coming and they immediately decide to do it. They're not making a conscious decision to inflict their pain on others, which actually would make it selfish. I don't understand why people here are trying to project their own rationale onto someone who wants to die. Often these people think that it'd be better for everyone else if they were no longer here.

Yes, but by definition it is selfish.

Holding one’s self-interest as the standard for decision making; Having regard for oneself above others’ well-being

So IMO Jeremy Clarkson is 100% right on that point. Where he goes too far is when he starts talking about what to do with the corpses.

As I said in my first post on this thread. In the UK, London in particular this is such a frequent occurrence. It happens on a near-daily basis if not on a daily basis.

Also if a suicide happens in relation to a car. It's actually likely that you would be prosecuted as a result also. The family presumably would blame you for careless driving.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Also, you don't have to be a practicising Catholic or Christian to be still affected by the thinking of a religion that has dominated and continues to dominate much of society's thinking. Everyone is affected to some extent by religion, whether they believe in it or not.

You're talking to the wrong person if you want to paint Christianity as a negative or use it as a way to fob off my opinion and the opinion of others.

I'm a passionate follower of Jesus. I believe strongly that the Gospel has the power to transform peoples lives for the better. I don't deny this.

In comparison to many other ideologies Christianity has more to say about the place of the person, the potential of the person, and indeed to liberate people from depressive tendencies rather than reinforce them. In short, Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide because it believes that there is a better way for mankind to live. To stop living for oneself being chained to the forces of social opinion around you and to think of the profound love that God has for each and every person, and as a result of that love serve Him and communicate this love to others.

Wibbs

philologos wrote: »

Yes, but by definition it is selfish.

Nope, not always. As I pointed out many suicides feel that they are doing others a favour by not being around. It's a very common mindset. And as I've pointed out one can't always apply logic or reasoning to someone at that extreme point of despair.

As I said in my first post on this thread. In the UK, London in particular this is such a frequent occurrence. It happens on a near-daily basis if not on a daily basis.

In which case rather than discussing the "morality of selfishness", maybe better questions could be asked along the lines of why so many and so often.

I'm a passionate follower of Jesus. I believe strongly that the Gospel has the power to transform peoples lives for the better. I don't deny this.

In comparison to many other ideologies Christianity has more to say about the place of the person, the potential of the person, and indeed to liberate people from depressive tendencies rather than reinforce them. In short, Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide because it believes that there is a better way for mankind to live. To stop living for oneself being chained to the forces of social opinion around you and to think of the profound love that God has for each and every person, and as a result of that love serve Him and communicate this love to others.

Which is great if and it's a big if someone is compos mentis enough to be reachable, by god or phsychiatry or society. Many are not.

philologos

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope, not always. As I pointed out many suicides feel that they are doing others a favour by not being around. It's a very common mindset. And as I've pointed out one can't always apply logic or reasoning to someone at that extreme point of despair.

The principle of it is selfish. As others have said, at least if you commit suicide in a way that doesn't involve other people it restricts the number of people that have to be affected by it to family & friends rather than others who happen to get in the way.

In my opinion, it's always selfish to jump in front of a train, or in front of someone else's car.

Wibbs wrote: »

In which case rather than discussing the "morality of selfishness", maybe better questions could be asked along the lines of why so many and so often.

I'm sure much better questions could be asked, but the question on this thread is was Jeremy Clarkson right to make that point. For the most part I'd say unequivocally yes.

Wibbs wrote: »

Which is great if and it's a big if someone is compos mentis enough to be reachable, by god or phsychiatry or society. Many are not.

I brought this up because Da Shins Kelly mentioned it, and I'm interested in challenging his opinion in that respect.

ottostreet

I don't have a problem with Jeremy's statements. It is a joke made in general, not about specific incidents. It is close to the edge of being 'dangerous' humour, like the type of humour found in Nein 11, or Lolocaust, but without overstepping it. If he made jokes about specific incidents, then yes, he's an idiot, but, as it stands, hes making jokes quite a lot of people make.

KittyeeTrix

I think Clarkson is great

Contoversial just for the sake of it to get the laughs (thanks) but often gets it wrong and annoys the hell out of people. Generally comes across as a bit of an a&&hole but ultimately makes ya laugh!!

He'd make a fantastic AH poster............

splendid101

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well it is selfish, what do you want to do hand people a medal for doing it.

It's a bit like saying it's selfish to get cancer.

Depression is an illness.

aidan24326

thebostoncrab wrote: »

...and? He is right, suicide is selfish.

That's bullsh1t and I'm disappointed that so many people would thank you for saying something as ridiculous as that.

To call suicide selfish is judging that person by the normal standards of how we think about things, when in reality that person's mental state is far from normsl.

It has to be for a person to do that. If you take Gary Speed last weekend, it may seem selfish that he did it in such a way that his wife would find him, but you or I don't know what his mental state was at that time. We can assume it was pretty bad. So I'd be reluctant to judge or to use words like selfish. We just don't know what's going through a person's mind when they make that awful decision.

Da Shins Kelly

philologos wrote: »

Yes, but by definition it is selfish.

How can you apply that kind of rationale to suicide? A person who offs themselves often think they're doing it for the good of others - that people they know and care about would be better off. I fail to see the 'selfish' side of that. Yes, there are ways of doing it that don't involve other people, but if someone who is ready to die sees an opportunity that they know will end it quick and definitively, they'll do it. It's unfortunate, but to apply a very negative term that implies that the person consciously dragged other people into their decision because they wanted to inflict their pain on them is just a complete misunderstanding of people in that position. They're not thinking in any way even approaching that kind of logic.

philologos wrote: »

So IMO Jeremy Clarkson is 100% right on that point. Where he goes too far is when he starts talking about what to do with the corpses.

As I said in my first post on this thread. In the UK, London in particular this is such a frequent occurrence. It happens on a near-daily basis if not on a daily basis.

Also if a suicide happens in relation to a car. It's actually likely that you would be prosecuted as a result also. The family presumably would blame you for careless driving.

As Wibbs said, how about figuring out why these things happen instead of just going about how selfish it is and hope that that acts as a deterrent.

philologos wrote: »

You're talking to the wrong person if you want to paint Christianity as a negative or use it as a way to fob off my opinion and the opinion of others.

I'm a passionate follower of Jesus. I believe strongly that the Gospel has the power to transform peoples lives for the better. I don't deny this.

In comparison to many other ideologies Christianity has more to say about the place of the person, the potential of the person, and indeed to liberate people from depressive tendencies rather than reinforce them. In short, Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide because it believes that there is a better way for mankind to live. To stop living for oneself being chained to the forces of social opinion around you and to think of the profound love that God has for each and every person, and as a result of that love serve Him and communicate this love to others.

I'm not using Christianity as a negative or whatever, but the idea of suicide being selfish or a 'coward's way out' or whatever you want to call it, is most definitely an opinion that comes from religious circles. As you said yourself, Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide. I'm not saying that Christianity is 'negative' (that's a whole other debate), but I strongly disagree with a lot of what is put out there by religion regarding suicide. It undoubtedly contributes to people's perception of people who commit suicide as 'cowards'.


Furthermore, not everyone is religious or feels in anyway connected to God or obliged to 'serve Him'.

MagicMarker

I'll just quote myself from the Gary Speed thread over in Soccer.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Often the victim has plummeted so deep into a state of depression they he/she feels that their family would be better off without them, if anything, inside their own head suicide is the most selfless act imaginable.

Saying a suicide victim is selfish for taking their own life is comparable to saying a cancer victim is selfish for getting cancer, depression is a disease.

But hey, carry on spouting BS all you want.

frank9901

i dont see how suicide is a selfish act, a majority of people who do it
firmly believe that others would be better off if they were not around

philologos

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

How can you apply that kind of rationale to suicide? A person who offs themselves often think they're doing it for the good of others - that people they know and care about would be better off. I fail to see the 'selfish' side of that. Yes, there are ways of doing it that don't involve other people, but if someone who is ready to die sees an opportunity that they know will end it quick and definitively, they'll do it. It's unfortunate, but to apply a very negative term that implies that the person consciously dragged other people into their decision because they wanted to inflict their pain on them is just a complete misunderstanding of people in that position. They're not thinking in any way even approaching that kind of logic.

How can I apply what rationale?

If something satisfies a particular definition, that's what it is.

I don't see what is wrong in saying that it is selfish to impose your suffering on others. The train driver that hits the body of the suicide victim may be traumatised for life. The driver that hits the body of the suicide victim may be scarred for life, and earn a conviction.

I think this comment is fair. I won't retract it either. I understand that chronic depression is an illness, but at the same time I can also sympathise with train drivers and motorists that were thrust into that situation. There is no trump card in that situation. It is all equally awful.

Sometimes what is true isn't easy to swallow. This to me seems like one of those situations.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

As Wibbs said, how about figuring out why these things happen instead of just going about how selfish it is and hope that that acts as a deterrent.

If that was the topic, then I'd be more than glad to discuss it. What is under discussion was whether or not Clarkson should have said what he did. In my opinion this is a subject that isn't tackled enough in the UK.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I'm not using Christianity as a negative or whatever, but the idea of suicide being selfish or a 'coward's way out' or whatever you want to call it, is most definitely an opinion that comes from religious circles. As you said yourself, Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide. I'm not saying that Christianity is 'negative' (that's a whole other debate), but I strongly disagree with a lot of what is put out there by religion regarding suicide. It undoubtedly contributes to people's perception of people who commit suicide as 'cowards'.

I don't mean to brand you as anything, but you have used Christianity as a negative position in this discussion and I don't agree with you. If you didn't intend to bring it up as a negative you wouldn't have mentioned it. Give me the opportunity to give you a piece of my reasoning as to why I don't agree with you.

I don't regard suicide as being a "cowards way out". One could argue that suicide is quite courageous. I regard a suicide which inflicts suffering onto a train driver or a motorist to be selfish, I don't see what is wrong in saying that.

Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide yes. I don't think you read the rest of my point about why Christianity is anti-suicide.

I don't think many people would say that a suicide is a good thing. It's horrific to all parties involved and tragic for the individual involved. Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide because it puts forward the idea that human beings needn't be caught in the slavery of sin, they needn't be caught in the slavery of human opinion and of those around them, but that they can be freed and that God is their only Lord. One needn't earn a extortionate salary to be happy, one needn't be the most glamorous person, one needn't be the most intelligent, witty or humorous. One needn't be pitted with guilt about what one has done. God will accept you if you accept Him and His word. God has forgiven you entirely through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If God loves you, why would God be pleased if you committed suicide?

I fail to see how such a stance is negative in this debate.

As a result I strongly disagree with your viewpoint about Christianity. I would hold message is arguably more useful to someone who is suicidal than any other message on the face of the earth. You can argue with me on that if you wish.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Furthermore, not everyone is religious or feels in anyway connected to God or obliged to 'serve Him'.

Of course, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something we should consider.

Unregistered.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As a bit of context, he wasn't talking about it being selfish because of pain and anguish that families and loved ones go through....he said it was selfish because it makes him late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

amacachi

Everything about the act is selfish. Whatever the person is thinking or what's going through their heads doesn't change the fact that the act itself is selfish.

Biggins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdkNn3Ei-Lg

They never make easy options. All are hard.

Da Shins Kelly

philologos wrote: »

How can I apply what rationale?

If something satisfies a particular definition, that's what it is.

I don't see what is wrong in saying that it is selfish to impose your suffering on others. The train driver that hits the body of the suicide victim may be traumatised for life. The driver that hits the body of the suicide victim may be scarred for life, and earn a conviction.

I think this comment is fair. I won't retract it either. I understand that chronic depression is an illness, but at the same time I can also sympathise with train drivers and motorists that were thrust into that situation. There is no trump card in that situation. It is all equally awful.

Sometimes what is true isn't easy to swallow. This to me seems like one of those situations.

Nobody is saying that we shouldn't sympathise with train drivers who get caught up in these situations, but I do not think that that is a reason to say that they act was selfish. Selfish does not fit the definition because it implies that the person consciously dragged someone else into it with the intention of inflicting their suffering on them. Suicide victims don't think like that.

philologos wrote: »

If that was the topic, then I'd be more than glad to discuss it. What is under discussion was whether or not Clarkson should have said what he did. In my opinion this is a subject that isn't tackled enough in the UK.

I don't think that Clarkson said it to bring this issue into debate. I think he said it to get attention, and it's not particularly tasteful. Suicide in general is something that should be discussed more, but people like Clarkson making comments that are clearly just intended to cause controversy are not contributing to the debate.

philologos wrote: »

I don't mean to brand you as anything, but you have used Christianity as a negative position in this discussion and I don't agree with you. If you didn't intend to bring it up as a negative you wouldn't have mentioned it. Give me the opportunity to give you a piece of my reasoning as to why I don't agree with you.

I don't regard suicide as being a "cowards way out". One could argue that suicide is quite courageous. I regard a suicide which inflicts suffering onto a train driver or a motorist to be selfish, I don't see what is wrong in saying that.

Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide yes. I don't think you read the rest of my point about why Christianity is anti-suicide.

I don't think many people would say that a suicide is a good thing. It's horrific to all parties involved and tragic for the individual involved. Christianity is profoundly anti-suicide because it puts forward the idea that human beings needn't be caught in the slavery of sin, they needn't be caught in the slavery of human opinion and of those around them, but that they can be freed and that God is their only Lord. One needn't earn a extortionate salary to be happy, one needn't be the most glamorous person, one needn't be the most intelligent, witty or humorous. One needn't be pitted with guilt about what one has done. God will accept you if you accept Him and His word. God has forgiven you entirely through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If God loves you, why would God be pleased if you committed suicide?

I fail to see how such a stance is negative in this debate.

As a result I strongly disagree with your viewpoint about Christianity. I would hold message is arguably more useful to someone who is suicidal than any other message on the face of the earth. You can argue with me on that if you wish.

Well that's all well and good for someone who believes in God, but all you've said means absolutely nothing to someone who is not a believer.

philologos wrote: »

Of course, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something we should consider.

It's not something I'd consider.

Sheeps

This is why I love Jeremy Clarkson.

philologos

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Nobody is saying that we shouldn't sympathise with train drivers who get caught up in these situations, but I do not think that that is a reason to say that they act was selfish. Selfish does not fit the definition because it implies that the person consciously dragged someone else into it with the intention of inflicting their suffering on them. Suicide victims don't think like that.

My position is that if something is selfish, it is selfish. This doesn't necessarily mean that people should be demonised for it, but this is simply what is is as far as I see it. People can be selfish for a huge host of reasons and many people you and I included I presume can be woefully selfish when we want to be. This is no different.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I don't think that Clarkson said it to bring this issue into debate. I think he said it to get attention, and it's not particularly tasteful. Suicide in general is something that should be discussed more, but people like Clarkson making comments that are clearly just intended to cause controversy are not contributing to the debate.

I'm arguing about the substance of what he wrote. As for why he wrote it, that's another discussion.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Well that's all well and good for someone who believes in God, but all you've said means absolutely nothing to someone who is not a believer.

It's not something I'd consider.

Again, the only reason I've posted what I have done is because you posted something about Christianity that I believed to be entirely false. Also just because someone isn't a believer doesn't mean that it is impossible for them to become one.

You're entitled to take whatever position on the podium you'd like, it doesn't mean that Christianity's position on suicide isn't legitimate.

smokedeels

I'm sure people who like the stuff Clarkson spews dislike paying licence fees for left-wingers like Stewart Lee to appear on the BBC.

I don't like him or the two other ignorant clowns from Top Gear, but I change the channel to something I will enjoy or turn the box off.

Rabidlamb

Clarkson, the ultimate WUM, I think many of you have been suckered it.

--Kaiser--

I remember seeing a photo in a newspaper of a wreath around the grave of a girl who committed suicide and it nearly made me weep. There was a note from her young sister (aged 5) and it said something like this:

"To my sister, I wish you could have stayed, I don't know why you had to go"

Unless you have no friends or family, suicide is a selfish act

Chuck Stone

Here's the sulky insufferable bastard on the receiving end of a joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sPfX39hTI

--Kaiser--

Wow. Hilarious

thebigbiffo

yep - he's completely right. i've been getting the train every day for years and about once a year someone throws themselves in front of one thus f'ucking up my day along with the day of those poor unfortunates who have to pick up brain matter from 100's of yards of train line and that's without mentioning the train driver.

if you're going to top yourself surely there's better ways - i mean at least leave your family something worth burying.

suicide in general can be argued to be 'selfish' - but f'ucking yourself in front of a train? no argument.

ShadowHearth

I wish clarkson would be my father

Africa

If people havent learned to take what Clarkson says with a pinch of salt, since after all, he is playing a character, then I think the joke is more on those fools than Clarkson. After hearing both of his comments (the one about the train and about the public workers being shot) I think that the foolish people that actually took his comments to heart and seriously should be shot. And then thrown under a train.

Batsy

kevmol88 wrote: »

He just cannot stop. He calls people that throw themselves under trains 'selfish'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/dec/03/jeremy-clarkson-people-trains-selfish?CMP=twt_gu

He's actually right (you can tell he's right because he's upset The Guardian, the little-read, declining, left-wing bible). Most people who commit suicide ARE selfish - and cowardly, too.

It might offend the PC Brigade but it doesn't offend those with common sense.

Batsy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just cause life might be rosy for you does not mean it is for others.

Those who take their own lives are cowardly and selfish. Clarkson isn't the only person with these views. Millions of people around the world do. It is a very popular view that suicide is selfish and cowardly. It's also one of the reasons why, up until the 1820s, suicides in Britain weren't given a proper Christian burial but were instead buried at crossroads with a stake driven through their hearts. This practice only ended after King George IV's carriage, travelling through London and carrying the king, was blocked for a long time at a crossroads by a large crowd burying a suicide at a crossroads.

stupidusername

No that was because according to christianity suicide is a sin.

What makes it selfish?

Batsy

Stained Class wrote: »

Well, I think he's great.

We need more like him.

Correct. Clarkson is very popular (except with the BBC, LibDem voters and Guardian-reading, tofu-eating, Islington lefties).

Back in 2008 almost 30,000 people signed a Downing Street petition calling for him to be Prime Minister.

As a result the Daily Mail at the time imagined what some of his sensible, no-nonsense policies to make Britain a better place will be (if you read the Guardian, look away now. This may be too horrifying for you):

ENCOURAGE GLOBAL WARMING

Britons will be encouraged, through discounts and tax relief, to drive 4x4s, Jaguars and BMWs. Not only will this give a valuable boost to our oil industry, but it will encourage climate change. And what's not to like about global warming? Holland gets flooded and we get California's weather. That's what I call a win/win situation.

BAN HEALTH & SAFETY

The safety bureaucrats are the abominable no-men, constantly dreaming up new reasons to abolish fun and hobble business. With their silly regulations, they have done more damage to British industry than the Luftwaffe. They are the human equivalent of a Lada. But at least you could drive a Lada off a cliff.

DEAL WITH YOUTH CRIME

It's true that some juvenile oiks come from broken homes where parents have all the child-rearing skills of King Herod. But let's stop making excuses. These delinquents have been creating mayhem for too long. They need to be taught some fear. Looking down the barrel of a sub-machine gun in a prison camp on the Outer Hebrides might do the trick.

REMOVE SPEED CAMERAS

Thanks to mass immigration, urban traffic moves at the speed of an arthritic snail. But still motorists are bullied by the rash of speed cameras, which are nothing more than a revenue-raising device. Serious criminals do not have to put up with this level of surveillance. My Government will tear down cameras and raise the motorway speed limit to 150mph.

TEACH BRITISH HISTORY

Pupils are taught to feel ashamed of their past, our national flag is treated as an embarrassment, our heritage as a source of shame. My Government would end this cultural cringe. The only problem with the Empire is that it wasn't big enough and didn't last long enough.

BRING BACK THE STOCKS

Despite Big Brother, there isn't enough humiliation in public life for those who deserve it. The medieval authorities had the right idea. The Beckhams will be the first in the stocks, followed by the chairman of the Health & Safety Executive.

END HUMAN RIGHTS

Under my Government, the rights of ordinary British citizens will have a higher priority than those of Islamic terrorists, Somalian gang-leaders and knife-wielding thugs. Homosexual pornography for deranged serial killers will not be regarded as a human right, nor will multi-million pound fees for hypocritical Leftwing lawyers milking the system.

KICK OUT BUREAUCRATS

The former U.S. President Ronald Reagan once said that the state was like a baby's alimentary canal: endless appetite at one end and utter irresponsibility at the other. My Government will reduce taxes by cracking down on all pen-sucking, paper-pushing jobsworths, outreach counsellors and parking enforcers, equality officers and drugs co-ordinators. Those who resist will be fed very, very slowly into their own office shredders.

FREEDOM TO SMOKE

In my Britain, smoking will no longer be seen as a crime against humanity. In fact, cigarettes will be encouraged in order to reduce the burden on the NHS and state pensions. After all, smokers perform a valuable public services by paying extortionate taxation, then generally failing to reach old age. The Marlboro Man has done more for our economy than any Chancellor.

BRITISH INDEPENDENCE

We fought the last war for our independence, and now we're under the heel of the unelected eurocrats of Brussels. Under my rule, Britain will withdraw from the EU, so we will no longer be governed by a bunch of sausage-eating Germans, French cheese-eating surrender monkeys and kebab-swallowing Greeks.

CRACKDOWN ON CYCLISTS

Cycling is just as dreary as recycling and twice as pointless. My Government will come down heavily on this sanctimonious activity by introducing new taxes on Lycra, plastic helmets and the bicycles themselves. Altogether now: "Four wheels good, two wheels bad."

PUBLIC EXECUTIONS

Only those without any romantic sense of the richness of British history could pretend not to miss the public hangings at Newgate. The restoration of judicial killings before a cheering crowd would not only bring back some muchneeded colour to British life, but would also give the doomed prisoner the satisfaction of a brief burst of celebrity.

MY CABINET

CHANCELLOR: Ken Dodd - very sound on taxation.
MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Richard Hammond - a man with the right sense of priorities when it comes to modes of travel.
HOME SECRETARY: Henry Cooper - a knockout for criminals.
CABINET SECRETARY: Heidi Klum - no Cabinet meeting would ever be boring with the presence of the supermodel.
MINISTER FOR FOOD & DRINK: Keith Floyd - no more puritan lectures about alcohol units.
FOREIGN SECRETARY: Boris Johnson - diplomacy is his middle name.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-505788/Jeremy-Clarkson-Prime-Minister.html

karma_

Batsy wrote: »

He's actually right (you can tell he's right because he's upset The Guardian, the little-read, declining, left-wing bible). Most people who commit suicide ARE selfish - and cowardly, too.

It might offend the PC Brigade but it doesn't offend those with common sense.

You're something else aren't you, a typical boorish BNP supporting, knuckle dragging, Daily Mail reading moron.

The Guardian is one of the best remaining real newspapers, respected the world over.


mod: poster banned.

Batsy

stupidusername wrote: »

No that was because according to christianity suicide is a sin.

What makes it selfish?

Because when you kill yourself it hurts your friends and family who you leave behind. It grieves your parents, your siblings, you children, your friends. However, the person who killed themselves did so to end such grief for themselves. Therefore it is a complete and under selfish act. Jeremy is absolutely spot on.

stupidusername

Batsy wrote: »

Because when you kill yourself it hurts your friends and family who you leave behind. It grieves your parents, your siblings, you children, your friends. However, the person who killed themselves did so to end such grief for themselves. Therefore it is a complete and under selfish act. Jeremy is absolutely spot on.

And what would you say if you had a family member with a debilitating illness,who wants to kill themselves? Would you call them selfish?

Batsy

karma_ wrote: »

The Guardian is one of the best remaining real newspapers, respected the world over.

It's not as good or well-respected the world over as the Daily Mail.

In the UK alone the Daily Mail is the second most-read paper after The Sun, with over ten times as many readers as The Guardian, whose readership is actually rapidly declining and is only the tenth most-popular UK newspaper.

The Mail's worldwide popularity is such that it's website is about to overtake that of the New York times as the world's most-read newspaper website.

http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk-top-10-newspapers.cfm

Chuck Stone

Batsy wrote: »

Because when you kill yourself it hurts your friends and family who you leave behind. It grieves your parents, your siblings, you children, your friends. However, the person who killed themselves did so to end such grief for themselves. Therefore it is a complete and under selfish act. Jeremy is absolutely spot on.

Just... just....

MagicMarker

Batsy wrote: »

Because when you kill yourself it hurts your friends and family who you leave behind. It grieves your parents, your siblings, you children, your friends. However, the person who killed themselves did so to end such grief for themselves. Therefore it is a complete and under selfish act. Jeremy is absolutely spot on.

Is someone who dies of cancer selfish?

karma_

Batsy wrote: »

It's not as good or well-respected the world over as the Daily Mail.

I rest my case.