why should we have to apply for a mod?

virgindrummer

Sparks wrote: »

I think you guys are confusing a few things:

• Legislation drafted without consultation with technical experts
• A legislative process that gives a free shot at that draft in the Dail and Seanad to politicians who may or may not have technical expertise and who may or may not be acting in good faith (as opposed to trying to get some press coverage)
• A police force who are then expected to implement the result of the legislative process and who bear personal responsibility in the event of legal challanges or liability issues if something goes horribly wrong, but who are never given enough training to do the job in the first place
• A society who generally aren't well informed about firearms

Put all of those together and I don't see servile people or a nation striving to be born in blood or any other image ripped off from a particularly drunk (and not particularly talented) poet somewhere in templebar early on a sunday morning. Instead, I get Hanlon's Razor:


And in this case, I'm referring to the kind of stupidity that leaves you standing outside your door at seven in the morning when rushing to get to work, staring through the hall windows at the keys to the car and house lying there in their dish on the hall table, behind the door you just pulled closed and locked behind you.

Must admit that I was indeed drunk when I wrote that post. It's still rude and obnoxious of you to direct an insult at me by accusing me of ripping of a bad poet in Temple Bar. But if that's what makes you happy, keep on keeping on!

I think it's very naive to claim that our legislators, civil servants etc. are just stupid. All of us on this forum know that some of these dudes do not like guns, and have sought to restrict their legal use and ownership as much as possible.

Sparks

virgindrummer wrote: »

I think it's very naive to claim that our legislators, civil servants etc. are just stupid. All of us on this forum know that some of these dudes do not like guns, and have sought to restrict their legal use and ownership as much as possible.

That's not quite ground truth though, is it?
Ground truth is closer to:
A lot of people in our community bitch and moan all the time about how we're really hard put-upon; but won't pay attention to politics or legislation when it would do some good (because, as they'll tell you, they find it tedious in the extreme) and don't vote in one block and prefer to see a fight than to see progress. Meanwhile, the Powers That Be are almost exactly the same - there are different groups in there, who aren't all arm-in-arm as the AGSI and Michael McDowell could testify to; and while some are professionals, others are politicians. And a few troublemakers in the mix makes life appallingly hard for everyone else unnecessarily.

In other words, the entire thing is an unholy mess, and it's not just this way for shooting, it's this way for just about everything in Irish life.

And since the whole howl-at-the-moon, fight-da-powa shoutiness approach has proven several times now that it just doesn't get the job done at the end of the day, and since that seems to be the road we're going down, I think we'd probably best all get used to how things are, because I don't see them improving much in the near future...

packas

session savage wrote: »

Theres often threads on here talking about applying for a mod for a rifle and it got me thinkning.. whats the frikkin point of having to get permission to reduce the noise of your firearm. I cant wrap me head around why the guards have to give you permission to have a moderator. is it just down to our stupid legislation written by gob****es that wouldnt know a rifle from a soggy old potato.

disclaimer: if im missing something obvious here I blame sleep deprivation.

Where I currently live you can own lots and lots of guns. Even full auto in some circumstances. However moderators are totally illegal. Nuts isn't it?? Logic & common sense is a bit hit & miss when it comes to firearms legislation.

tac foley

landkeeper wrote: »

just be thankful your not living in the uk

In many parts of the UK moderators are actually compulsory for deer-stalking and vermin shooting - especially if vermin [fox] shooting is done at night. I live 'out in the rurals' of East Anglia and in both counties that I night-shoot a moderator is compulsory, regardless of calibre.

Sure, it has be be acquired and registered on your licence, but it's no big deal.

tac

tac foley

packas wrote: »

Where I currently live you can own lots and lots of guns. Even full auto in some circumstances. However moderators are totally illegal. Nuts isn't it?? Logic & common sense is a bit hit & miss when it comes to firearms legislation.

In Canada, full-auto firearms were banned in 1995. Those few that had been grand-fathered are all that remain.

Canada is not the cat's whiskers for gun-owners that you describe - there are still the restricted firearms lists and no Luger can be owned with its original-lenth barrel due to the barrel-length restriction. The PAL is not a license to go buy a truck-load of firearms - even many BP firearms are limited by virtue of their calibre.

Thankfully, it looks like we are going to sh!t-can the appallingly costly gun registration programme - another liberal farce that will cost every Canadian alive today tax for the rest of their lives.

...and since you currently live there, that includes you, too. WE live over here, and don't pay any Canadian taxes, 'cept when we go home. :=)

Best

tac

firefly08

The moderator situation in the US is not exactly peachy either. You have to pay a $200 tax and wait months for background checks & paperwork processing. To top that off, you still have to get approval from local law enforcement, and there is no legal way to appeal if they refuse to approve it (although luckily in any state there are various people that count as "law enforcement" so you will usually be able to find someone to sign off). But basically, it is so much trouble that virtually no one bothers. I have never seen a moderator over here, not one.

I realize it's hard to consider yourself "lucky" when you're being forced to go begging, cap in hand ,for permission to buy a piece of metal tubing....but that's the world we live in. It could be worse - they could be on the restricted list! :eek:

Sparks

firefly08 wrote: »

It could be worse - they could be on the restricted list! :eek:

They were on the restricted list until 2009 for centerfire rifles (one of the wins the FCP got that people either never heard of or forgot).

Grizzly 45

firefly08 wrote: »

The moderator situation in the US is not exactly peachy either. You have to pay a $200 tax and wait months for background checks & paperwork processing. To top that off, you still have to get approval from local law enforcement, and there is no legal way to appeal if they refuse to approve it (although luckily in any state there are various people that count as "law enforcement" so you will usually be able to find someone to sign off). But basically, it is so much trouble that virtually no one bothers. I have never seen a moderator over here, not one.

Compared to here its a doddle!!:rolleyes: 200 usd transfer tax,maximum 12 weeks waiting and processing time.SET by FEDERAL LAW [IOW application must be done within 3months].No!! The local law enforcement sign off on your paperwork and do your prints.By and large unless you are living in some "Boss Hog backwater county" where you have peed off the local sheriff,its not such a biggie as made out.
Its the FEDS that say yes/no on that one...Dont actually know what their refusal rate is...Unless you have done somthing really bad,you shouldnt be on their databases.
So long as you are living in a state that permits ownership,and the majority of them do.. It's quite easy to own silencers,sawn off shotguns and full auto stuff in the US.Big one is COST!!
.22 parker hale style cans can start around 500 dollars upwards.

Over here.tThe cans can be bought over the counter,but woe betide you being caught with one.Go through a whole gamut of stupid excuses as to why you want one with a "genuine Boss Hogg":rolleyes: sitting in your local divisional barracks ,whose word IS law and the only way to change it is a DC case!Repeat every three years as well.The US you own it for good then.

. It could be worse - they could be on the restricted list! :eek:

They are!!!:rolleyes:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They are!!!:rolleyes:

Not since 2009. Unless you mean mods for pistols.

Grizzly 45

I did,..forgot about the other side.:o
BTW whats the story here for a rifle /handgun with an intregrated silencer barrel design?? Does it require a seperate liscense as well.?
Always fancied for a vintage shoot a Semi Auto silenced STEN or a De Lesile carbine:D

tac foley

@Grizzly45 - here in UK there is a company that makes a L-E-based replica of the .45 DeLisle carbine - one of our members has one.

It's pretty odd to see and hear, too - just thump like a heavy car door closing.

Costy, though - around £2500 new.

However, here's one second-hand - http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/110429171823620 - only £2100.00. Mere feed-chicken and pocket change to you guys over there!

[The fancy wooden packing crate box is £350 extra.]

tac

packas

tac foley wrote: »

In Canada, full-auto firearms were banned in 1995. Those few that had been grand-fathered are all that remain.

Canada is not the cat's whiskers for gun-owners that you describe - there are still the restricted firearms lists and no Luger can be owned with its original-lenth barrel due to the barrel-length restriction. The PAL is not a license to go buy a truck-load of firearms - even many BP firearms are limited by virtue of their calibre.

Thankfully, it looks like we are going to sh!t-can the appallingly costly gun registration programme - another liberal farce that will cost every Canadian alive today tax for the rest of their lives.

...and since you currently live there, that includes you, too. WE live over here, and don't pay any Canadian taxes, 'cept when we go home. :=)

Best

tac

Still.... a lot better than some countries. All depends on your viewpoint. You could debate forever the pro's and cons of certain aspects but I find it refreshing to be part of a system where you know where you stand with regards what you can and cannot have. Again back to my original point....Logic & common sense is a bit hit & miss when it comes to firearms legislation.

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

@Grizzly45 - here in UK there is a company that makes a L-E-based replica of the .45 DeLisle carbine - one of our members has one.

It's pretty odd to see and hear, too - just thump like a heavy car door closing.

Costy, though - around £2500 new.

However, here's one second-hand - http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/110429171823620 - only £2100.00. Mere feed-chicken and pocket change to you guys over there!

[The fancy wooden packing crate box is £350 extra.]

tac

There is or was , a company in america doing a conversion kit and it was a lot cheaper then the gun above , it was simply a replacement barrel and a 1911 magazine with whatever bracketry was need to get the magazine to work.

firefly08

Compared to here its a doddle!! 200 usd transfer tax,maximum 12 weeks waiting and processing time.SET by FEDERAL LAW [IOW application must be done within 3months].No!! The local law enforcement sign off on your paperwork and do your prints.By and large unless you are living in some "Boss Hog backwater county" where you have peed off the local sheriff,its not such a biggie as made out.

I admit I have no personal experience of the process, but you might want to read this thread:

If the CLEO wont sign off?

I'm a year away from getting a suppressor. Problem is i worked with an ex-sheriff this previous summer and he said the chief wont sign off on it.

Had the CLEO refuse here in PA, Westmoreland County Sherriff, when, it was the Sheriff that was considered the CLEO, now its your local police chief, or the lowest level Officer that would KNOW YOU the best.

Bottom line, the court ruled he had no obligation to sign the form.

I went the cleo sign off route,got my fingerprints and all, and 2 months later the cleo told me he wouldnt sign off

Find an attorney

Sound familiar?

Grizzly 45

Indeed it does Firefly..:) However while reading the full replies and the entire thread there is obviously the trust route to own the Class3 stuff,and various other methods and ruses,even at worst having a second home in another state that allows Class 3 stuff with no problems.Not to mind the guy who started this seems to be getting bar room advice from an "ex" sherrif.

ALL are impossible to do here in the ROI or the EU[Well maybe if you have mega bucks and can move to Switzerland or Finland,or somplace that is more tolerant].
Even where they said get a lawyer to set up yhe trust,costing only 500 dollars.[Hang another zero onto that over here for the same service].
So by and large it still is an easier job than over here.500 dollars to sort out a legal problem compared to 1500/2000 euros for a day in court???
Hmmm.lemme think on that one!:pac:

tac foley

Sir - a couple of points here, especially as I have just come back from Finland, staying with a couple who are both retired police officers.

Finland does NOT permit its citizens to own fully automatic firearms of any kind - Please note -

Firearms Act 1/1998 Amendment 804/2003 -

Section 9 [lists categories of prohibited firearms/ammunition et al] -

Title - Specially Dangerous Firearms -

1. ANY fully automatic firearm.

And as for Switzerland - another country where I go to shoot since 1978 -
it is true that the military forces of the federation, strictly speaking a true militia, are issued with fully-automatic firearms as part of their retention/obligation, they are required to hand it in at the termination of their full-time service. See -

'When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment. In this case of retention, the rifle is sent to the weapons factory where the fully automatic function is removed; the rifle is then returned to the discharged owner. The rifle is then a semi-automatic or self-loading rifle.'

AFAIK, there is no equal to the deal such as that made by the BATF in the USA, where paying your $300 tax and getting the approval stamp entitles you to own a fully-automatic firearm.

I'm happy to be corrected here, but on my occasional visit to Knob Creek KY, only registered Federally-authorised Class 3 FFL can buy or sell any fully automatic firearm.

...and BTW, in both Finland and Switzerland, as of the time of writing, moderators are readily available over the counter of your local friendly gun store. Finland is rightly famous for the quality of its moderator manufacturing. One Finnish maker, Vaime, used to make a completely-moderated version of the Steyr SSG where the barrel and moderator were integral, designed to shoot sub-sonic .308Win for 'certain' applications.

tac