Casual Labour

feckin day gone again!!

Its so hard to get anyone to do a few hrs a day or 2/3 days a week without paying them cash... People should be allowed claim dole if they can only get a couple of days work per week. It would be legitimate and would suit farmers who need a hand a couple of days a week but need to put the pay through the books. Lets face it, the day of cash is gone.. No farmer can pay out 60-80 a day into the hand.. thats ridiculous. Is it possible to pay people once a month and give them a cheque for lets say 10-12 days work and label it as Round Bales or Turf or something. Let the other man worry about his taxes and so on?

whelan1

realistically i would have full time work for him til march.... going to solicitor tomorrow about something else so am going to run the whiole thing by her before i bring it up with him again

just do it

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Ah give the lad a break will ya. He told us his situation and hes getting attacked for it now, At least he was honest. I wouldnt blame him to be honest for the sake of a few weeks work to have no money coming in for another 5 or 6 weeks. Its all well and good to be talking but how many people posting here have had to survive on €0 for that long. Dont judge until you are in the same shoes is all im saying. A full time job would be different but that's often not the situation and compatible with farming. There are a lot of people in this country who never worked and never have an intention of working and in the boom had several pps numbers and were drawing 1000 euro a year and more and nobody said a thing or cared and they were let get away with it. Now that times are tight though anyone on the dole is looked at like they are the scum of the earth. What would anyone else here do if they hadnt been fortunate enough to inherit a farm and had lost their job and had no money to look after their family???? A blind eye was turned to the fraudsters in the good years and I would say the situation isint any worse now as the work just is not there for the most of them if you think about it. People are a lot more reluctant to pay cash because the tax man will be hunting you down. There was no shortage of it 5 years ago though:rolleyes:

Fair enough red, but I find the way the posts were written hard to read - is it me just getting old? (and I'm not that old!). It's a bit of an unfair swipe at s14 and if I was in that position I'd do the exact same. On reading the last post I assumed that he was a school leaver in 3rd level education rather than being unemployed on a back to work college course.

The problem is the system. The way it is set up doesn't encourage people back into employment, and if you need to chop and change a bit it can take weeks or months for payments to come through. I think the change of basing the dole on a 5 day week will also have an effect on lads wanting to do a bit of casual labour...

just do it

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

Is it possible to pay people once a month and give them a cheque for lets say 10-12 days work and label it as Round Bales or Turf or something. Let the other man worry about his taxes and so on?

Another option I was thinking was I've a part-time farmer I'm thinking of getting to do a few hours a week for me. What about if I got him a tank of diesel?

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

realistically i would have full time work for him til march.... going to solicitor tomorrow about something else so am going to run the whiole thing by her before i bring it up with him again

Do you mind me asking whealan what you hope to achieve?

I only see 1 loser in this and it ain't your worker

whelan1

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do you mind me asking whealan what you hope to achieve?

I only see 1 loser in this and it ain't your worker

what do you suggest i do ?

corkcomp

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do you mind me asking whealan what you hope to achieve?

I only see 1 loser in this and it ain't your worker

Yeah I dont get it either, if the guy is only willing to work a three day week just accept it and either find someone else to work the other days or else lay him off and find someone else to do the full week.

whelan1

can i lay him off?

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

can i lay him off?

how long is he with you? any written contract? Do you want to be in a situation over xmas where you might have NO help? maybe it would be better to wait until Jan.. If you dont have a contract, and no mention of working hours or change of working hours its no harm to run it by a solicitor.

whelan1

was talking to a lad who was let go by local farmer - who is in trouble with bank- seems a good lad, the farmer he was working for would take no crap from anyone and wouldnt be the easiest to get on with...will see what solicitor says tomorrow, no contract ,is here over a year , was fulltime but went on a 3day week from march, tax etc paid all above board

anfieldrd

Iv been working with a local farmer last few months part time, might have work for 2 weeks in a row, or a day a week or like present have not worked in the last 3 weeks. I sign off when I am working, as Im on the xs and o system, I only get 88 euro a week when I don't have work and lose nearly 30 euro of that for everyday I work, I have been tempted to cheat the system but have not done so as of yet, just this morning I called to 3 lads looking for work, some said after x mas they would have a bit but looks like now I am screwed for xmas. Unless any of ye kind folk want a hand

supersean1999

jeez are you still having problems with your workers, not sure if its the same guy, but i remember reading a thread ages ago and you were having problems, id say its simple just .offer him full time, if he refuses run him out the gate, have the offer in writing.

just do it

anfieldrd wrote: »

Iv been working with a local farmer last few months part time, might have work for 2 weeks in a row, or a day a week or like present have not worked in the last 3 weeks. I sign off when I am working, as Im on the xs and o system, I only get 88 euro a week when I don't have work and lose nearly 30 euro of that for everyday I work, I have been tempted to cheat the system but have not done so as of yet, just this morning I called to 3 lads looking for work, some said after x mas they would have a bit but looks like now I am screwed for xmas. Unless any of ye kind folk want a hand

I won't be able to help you anfield, but it would help if lads knew your location;)

just do it

supersean1999 wrote: »

jeez are you still having problems with your workers, not sure if its the same guy, but i remember reading a thread ages ago and you were having problems, id say its simple just .offer him full time, if he refuses run him out the gate, have the offer in writing.

Whealan1
Agree with supersean, but just make sure you've some way of covering the workload if he drops tools and walks off farm there and then!

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

was talking to a lad who was let go by local farmer - who is in trouble with bank- seems a good lad, the farmer he was working for would take no crap from anyone and wouldnt be the easiest to get on with...will see what solicitor says tomorrow, no contract ,is here over a year , was fulltime but went on a 3day week from march, tax etc paid all above board

Was it yours or his idea to go on 3 day week? if it was your idea, it would weaken your position possibly. Its going to be very difficult to get the same lad to do 3 day weeks for some of the year and full weeks more more of it and expect him to wait 4 - 5 weeks when you decide to drop days back to 3 a week.. I could be wrong, but i cant see how that would ever work out for both parties.

whelan1

it was a joint decision ,he said it first, as he knew my financial status wasnt good at the time, i said i would take him back fulltime when i could, he agreed

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do you mind me asking whealan what you hope to achieve?

I only see 1 loser in this and it ain't your worker

what do you suggest i do ?

Well ii is approaching Christmas so you don't want to be by yourself for the next month which you very well could be if you aren't careful - staff can be very fussy as you well know

The first thing I would do is have a back up, that fella that you mentioned worked fOr a neighbour, discreetly check is he willing to do 5 days

Secondly check with solicitor about leaving current guy go, it shouldn't be a problem but better to check

Then make ultimatum to current guy, either do 5 days or do no days. It doesn't have to be an aggressive ultimatum, just explain the position. Best be honest and say you only expect the 5 days to last a few months, then back to 3 or whatever

If he takes it, sorted, if he declines get rid and bring in new guy. Vital to not leave yourself with nobody so make sure he is wanting to work for you, best to advice him it will reduce to 3 days in a few months also so you don't have problems down the line. I personally would avoid putting anything in writing as somebody suggested above

Just my opinion which of course is easily given when it's not me in the situation

whelan1

ta, will talk to solicitor , then have a casual chat with the lad up the road and then talk to my employee.... was there anything in the budget regards usc etc?

corkcomp

just keep in mind that its a legal requirement that an employee gets a written contact within two months of start date so if you think you might have any problems with someone down the road id say cover your own back and do everything above board. You could try this crowd too (free anyways so nothing to lose) http://www.employeradvice.ie/?gclid=CJiz6ef876wCFUKo4AodLUF2OA

rancher

corkcomp wrote: »

just keep in mind that its a legal requirement that an employee gets a written contact within two months of start date so if you think you might have any problems with someone down the road id say cover your own back and do everything above board. You could try this crowd too (free anyways so nothing to lose) http://www.employeradvice.ie/?gclid=CJiz6ef876wCFUKo4AodLUF2OA

Apparently although farmers are prepared to work for 10e per hour, no one else is.I was talking to a builder today and he has to pay well over min wage to get competent workers..... Its the way the system has made them, especially as it takes weeks to get back onto the system when you come off. I'm afraid whelan you'll have to up the offer like the builder!!!!!!

whelan1

€450 a week home costs me 600with usc etc... is the €10 an hour before tax or after ?

just do it

corkcomp wrote: »

just keep in mind that its a legal requirement that an employee gets a written contact within two months of start date so if you think you might have any problems with someone down the road id say cover your own back and do everything above board. You could try this crowd too (free anyways so nothing to lose) http://www.employeradvice.ie/?gclid=CJiz6ef876wCFUKo4AodLUF2OA

If you're in the IFA I believe they offer members a legal service as well. Not sure if it's free though, but at least they'll be knowledgeable in the area.

whelan1

ta, have to go to solicitor anyways tomorrow , so will kill 2 birds with the 1 stone , sort of speak

whelan1

anyone know what changes in the budget there where to the usc etc, tia

feckin day gone again!!

need to see accountant and sort things out... all i know is that people are beind screwed for the mistakes of fat bankers in Ireland and Europe. What d hell was our Government doing? Going out for dinner and getting jarred.. thats what. I'd love Cowan to get a slap of a cows tail at 6.30am..I'm ripping:(

1chippy

whelan1 wrote: »

€450 a week home costs me 600with usc etc... is the €10 an hour before tax or after ?

450 will cost a lot more than 600 if you are allowing for sick days, hols and all the bells and whistles. Accountant sat me down one day and broke it down for me and i nearly cried.

For rancher: you mentioned the word competent, good tradesmen are still hard got. they have to be more experienced as the work is far more diverse. say for instance carpentry could be broke in to a large no of sections, even sparks would have had lads who could wire a straight forward house no prob but give him a three phase plug and he would have to pull out his fass manual (slight exageration). Theres a lot of good lads gone and you have to pay more than 10 an hour to get the good ones that are left. In my experience its worth paying more.

yourpics

whelan1 wrote: »

i feel your pain:o have a guy on 3 day week, pay tax , he gets dole other days, asked him today to stay fulltime till end of january , he said no, he's too busy working with other people the other days- wtf, i pay his tax, he is claiming dole on the other days, am quite annoyed. So what choice do i have ?

Report him for social welfare fraud. Simple.

By the way, an employee is entitled to a written contract after 2 months.

whelan1

spoke to him this evening , left it til after christmas as i didnt want to be left with no one:rolleyes: going to do a 4 day week from next week,until end of march, suits me better , he said he wasnt able for fulltime- at least he was honest- so he will be off the dole

just do it

whelan1 wrote: »

spoke to him this evening , left it til after christmas as i didnt want to be left with no one:rolleyes: going to do a 4 day week from next week,until end of march, suits me better , he said he wasnt able for fulltime- at least he was honest- so he will be off the dole

Sounds like a win win situation?

whelan1

have him trained in now the way i want him to work... would be a pain to get some one else in... kids back to school monday, so thats when the real pressure comes back on me:)

eire-kp

whelan1 wrote: »

spoke to him this evening , left it til after christmas as i didnt want to be left with no one:rolleyes: going to do a 4 day week from next week,until end of march, suits me better , he said he wasnt able for fulltime- at least he was honest- so he will be off the dole

Your lucky, I know a neighbour who tied to force a lad who was doing 3 days a week for him into full time work by playing the social welfare card.

He had to let him go soon after as one tractor and tanker got wrote off in a very avoidable accident soon after (think park break and a steep hill)
Be careful anyway.
I think social welfare changed the rules recently so people dont have to wait long to get a payment after permant temporary work finishes up.

syconerd

hiya just thought id put pen to paper and give an opinion on this problem
i myself would work for anybody here for 10 euros an hour but i get close to 1600 euros a month from dole which is dole plus rent allowance.
if a guy was to live on ur farm maybe it be worth his while to work for you's sorry if this sounds weird,
but there are other things u can apply for as well there's the household package that will give you something towards the bills,
this is why you find it hard to get guys to do a full weeks work there getting too much on dole to leave it,
i personally would love to get a job on a farm but i dont think id be able to now im on disablity and it works out better for me to stay where i am
so with that in mind ill leave u to it sorry if this aint what ya wanted to hear
john
aka "syconerd"

Suckler

syconerd wrote: »

this is why you find it hard to get guys to do a full weeks work there getting too much on dole to leave it,

If ever there was one sentance that summarises the state the country is in, this would be right up there.

whelan1

Suckler wrote: »

If ever there was one sentance that summarises the state the country is in, this would be right up there.

until the government do something to change this we are fooked

corkcomp

even though I think that's a bit much, I guess if anyone of us were in the same position what would we do? get out of bed early every morning to earn less? Im not sure what id do TBH

Suckler

corkcomp wrote: »

even though I think that's a bit much, I guess if anyone of us were in the same position what would we do? get out of bed early every morning to earn less? Im not sure what id do TBH

The figure shouldnt be that high is more to the point. 1600 a month for doing nothing is abhorrent.

Tora Bora

Suckler wrote: »

The figure shouldnt be that high is more to the point. 1600 a month for doing nothing is abhorrent.

My belief, is that any person with the take the dole rather than work, would be a useless hoor, in any case. If I had one of them for a day, I'd imagine, there would be a parting of the ways by ten o'clock in the morning, at the latest. Imagine giving one of them a roll of barbed wire, and a pair of wet, torn gloves left out under the rain the night before, and telling them roll out there, and feed it through the blackthorn bushes, and put a good strain on it, fairly lively:cool::cool:

just do it

syconerd wrote: »

i personally would love to get a job on a farm but i dont think id be able to now im on disablity

Now I know it's possible you've a genuine case to receive disability, but surely if you feel you are capable of working on a farm you are not that disabled?

just do it

syconerd wrote: »

this is why you find it hard to get guys to do a full weeks work there getting too much on dole to leave it,

Agree with other replies.

This has always been an issue for people who are only capable of getting low paid work, even in the good times. There ought to be a sliding scale to allow people who are on long term benefit to earn some money without losing out on entitlements etc. Don't forget how heavily subsidised our own income is before slamming others for lounging at the tax payers expense (this isn't aimed at any one individual by the way). The incentive just isn't there! Human nature is to take the easiest, and also most secure, option.

1chippy

Tora Bora wrote: »

My belief, is that any person with the take the dole rather than work, would be a useless hoor, in any case. If I had one of them for a day, I'd imagine, there would be a parting of the ways by ten o'clock in the morning, at the latest. Imagine giving one of them a roll of barbed wire, and a pair of wet, torn gloves left out under the rain the night before, and telling them roll out there, and feed it through the blackthorn bushes, and put a good strain on it, fairly lively:cool::cool:

The best i done was four minutes. new lad to arrive at eight, turned up late and hungover on his first day, asked him to put up a stud wall. (supposed to be carpenter) he asked me how that was done. Sent home.

roosky

hi lads just on the topic of not being able to find good workers
.....im a ag science student in ucd and am currently on work placement and im looking for work for over the summer so if any of ye have a position that would suit that would be great.....
.im hard working and honest and just want to get on with it....all i want is a few pound and to be treated fairly right

thanks

BeeDI

roosky wrote: »

hi lads just on the topic of not being able to find good workers
.....im a ag science student in ucd and am currently on work placement and im looking for work for over the summer so if any of ye have a position that would suit that would be great.....
.im hard working and honest and just want to get on with it....all i want is a few pound and to be treated fairly right

thanks

Reilig, is your man. I think he is from leitrim like you.
Some lads on here say he is tight, but you can set us straight after a few days in the bog with him.;)

roosky

im looking for farming experience not hardship experience !!!

Bodacious

roosky wrote: »

im looking for farming experience not hardship experience !!!

you not liking the bog!!?

Last year in East Galway, polish man available for all types of work had ad in local paper, next week edition he had same advert in but at the end PLEASE PLEASE NO BOG!!!

syconerd

just do it wrote: »

Now I know it's possible you've a genuine case to receive disability, but surely if you feel you are capable of working on a farm you are not that disabled?

and ur point being im lazy i aint i just cant work because of my disability im not on boards going into whats wrong but guys who know me will know why im disabled and as for me working id give it a go

as for tora boras quote

Tora Bora wrote: »

My belief, is that any person with the take the dole rather than work, would be a useless hoor, in any case. If I had one of them for a day, I'd imagine, there would be a parting of the ways by ten o'clock in the morning, at the latest. Imagine giving one of them a roll of barbed wire, and a pair of wet, torn gloves left out under the rain the night before, and telling them roll out there, and feed it through the blackthorn bushes, and put a good strain on it, fairly lively:cool::cool:

even prisoners are allowed gloves without holes anyway if i were coming to ur place id supply my own clothes and protection as i wouldnt like to bill you for my medical bills if i cut my finger on say the roll of barded wird haha

keep going

i want to report a couple of lads for defrauding the state and am prepared to name names they are e kenny from mayo,m martin from cork,b,ahern dublin,n gilmore dublin........... .as usual the big defrauders will get away with it-240k for bertie:(:mad::(:mad::(:mad:

Young ned of the hill

Most of you lot (Bar a few) really do have your head stuck in the sand. You yapping and crying over pittance. Talking about reporting ones that are barely scarping together. Yet theres not much mention of Seanie Fitzpatrick and Sean Quinn and the like that swindled Billions of Euro out of Irish economy. Sad indeed, now run along like good little boys and girls and keep blaming the most poorest and vulnerable people in our society, while the big men sit back and laugh at ye while they cream the surplus value of your wages and get richer and richer!!

edit; after rant
Look lads sorry for going off on one, but its not the ones on benefit are that are bleeding the system, its the politicians and banker. The politicians have let the arse be drag out of Irish farming. I don't know what it's like in the State but in the six counties you have to work around the clock to make ends meet, the abattoirs and dairies have everything sown up. This is not the way farming should be. On the continent they make out a whole better on a whole lot less and they have a lot more time to keep there farm in better shape, but they have politicians that want to work for them and they give a F***, If they didn't they would soon be out on there ear. It's about time farmers about starting taking some control themselves there livelihoods and there family. Farming should be about a bit of variety and little self sustenance and having time to enjoy farming without worrying overheads and paperwork and all BS that attached to modern farming. If they can do it on the continent there no reason they can't do it here!!