Anyone / everyone Dim

Niall Keane

A recent post had me thinking, considering all the disparaging remarks about it,  what do people out there actually believe "Dim Mak" to be?

 And does anyone here have actual experience of learning, using it in a practical manner? (I do feel most probably have no idea at all beyond works of fiction, be that movies or witnessing unrealistic even fantastic technique)

For me it's simply one of four pillars of Nei Jia (internal) gung fu, not secret, and not mystical. The other 3 being "die Pu" (to strike and knock down, or to knock down and strike) "shuai jiao" wrestling / throwing and "chin na" (sieze hold- joint locks, chokes etc...)

Dim Mak of course is Cantonese for Dian Xue , which would translate Dian means to point or dot, and Xue means a hole / vital point or "to bore a hole"

There is of course Japanese "atemi" (spelling?) and even western boxers know about "sweet spots"

The Dim Mak I practice flows easily as an addition to existing technique, enhancing them, I don't have to wait until the hour of the tiger to apply it, nor do I have to dial a "long distance" number on acupuncture points. Though "Wudang" it's pretty far from the artistic Liscence of "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" I don't fly either ;-)

The art of Dian Xue is first explicitly mentioned on a gazzette publication and an epitaph on a tombstone regarding Wang Zheng-nan a famous Nei Jia Chuan master. Though earlier diagrams could relate to such going back thousands of years.

We cannot really discuss "dim Mak" the Gung Fu term without reference to Nei Jia Chuan, and the Daoist hermit "Chang San Feng" 1314-1419 (hermit or the three peaks - ref to his stay at Bao Ji west of Xian before and after his 10 years on Wudang where he is said to have "reversed the principles of Shaolin" and created Nei Jai Chuan)

From Chang San Feng and Wudang, through the centuries the art reached  out... The Shaolin Monastery adopting it into many systems, in 1640 two "Chen" brothers - practitioners of Nei Jia Chuan, arrived in Nagasaki and this began Japanese Jiu Jitsu , bear in mind, Nei Jia is called an "internal" or "soft" art and of course the Japanese name makes sense.

Nei Jia has changed its name many times, "thirteen tactics", "six paths" "cotton boxing" "transformation boxing" becoming of course "tai chi Chuan" a name given to the Nei Jia art practiced by "Yang Lu Chan" by a court poet. 

Now as a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner myself, I'd be the first to state that most of what I've seen worldwide masquerading as Tai Chi Chuan is closer to either bad yoga or bad Pilates or to some dance performance art. It was just good fortune for me that I happened across the real stuff passed down through a line of fighters. 

My own Sifu - Dan Docherty once told me that there are only ever a handful of Tai Chi Chuan fighters, he has only allowed a handful to pass on the complete art, his own teacher "Cheng Tin-hung" likewise had less than 20 students that he would Consider to "have it" 

That's one "lineage" there are others, but of you examine the students of "Yang Lu Chan" only a handful passed the art down, say 10, so next generation lets assume they were all as successful as Yang (unlikely) that makes 100 by the 3rd generation, 1000 by the fourth, 10000 by 4th,  100,000 by 5th today? In a world of 7 billion. Ah wait, forgot about all those wars and cultural revolution, and re-education programmes in recent Chinese history. 

So begs the question, how many who have received a "Zhen zhuan" (true tranission actually exist? What are the chances of people having trained with them? And then, therefore how many actually know what "Dim Mak" is? Or could even recognise it? 

Dim Mak was never a secret in my own style, but Sanshou was trained first, makes sense as what's the point in refinement if there's nothing to refine? Without the skills of position, timing and range nothing will work. We all know this! 

This of course hasn't stopped people looking for short cuts and secret "death touches" and even claiming they can do so, backing up their bs with terms and concepts from Chinese medicine. 

So is there anyone here who has actual experience of learning "Dim Mak" from a fighter with virifible lineage? (I actually expect there are!) And been able to train its use against resistance? 

Beyond "Dim Mak" do many here incorporate nerve attacks and vital / pressure points into your art? 

What do you call it of anything?

Have you tested your skill? Found any favourites?

I won't post any of my favourites yet, I want to wait and see If this thread will become hijacked by the fashionable "tap out" teeshirt brigade, too myopic to realise their own Heros use Dim Mak under a different name in their chokes etc. 
Of course for myself I would be really interested to see of any kung fu guys out there who both pressure test themselves and use it. Something maybe many are afraid to state incase they're labeled along side the no-touch ko fantasy fools.

Doug Cartel

Kyushu jitsu is probably closer to the Japanese equivalent to dim mak than atemi. Atemi is just striking in general, the target/method doesn't really matter.

A quick look around the net seems to indicate that the Epitaph of Wang Zheng-nan is a political allegory with the Taoist "internal" styles representing the indigenous Chinese people and the Shaolin "external" styles representing the foreign Manchu rulers. It's been re-written a few times as well. It's got some pretty fantastical claims in it and looks to be about as reliable a source of information as the Táin Bó Cúailnge.

Now, while the Táin is a good source for some information about life at the time it is written, you have to be very careful about believing specific things as they are written down. For example in the Táin, Cú Cullain is described as wielding his spear with his foot - and frankly, that's about as plausible as most of the stuff I've heard about dimmak.

Damo W

Anatomically weak areas of the body susceptible to kinetic energy transfer based on the five principles:

1. Location (The precise anatomical structure to be attacked)

2. Tool (Which part of the body [fist, foot, elbow, knee, fingertips, etc.] used to attack with)

3. Angle (The angle of energy transfer)

4. Direction (The direction of energy transfer; i.e. back to front, perpendicular to location, etc.)

5. Intensity (The amount of energy transfer necessary to achieve the desired outcome)

As presented in the Bubishi, the above will not only improve one's fundamental knowledge of anatomical structures it will also deepen and widen one's understanding of pain withdrawal reflex (PWR) and pre-determined response (PDR), two valuable components behind mechanical exploitation supporting kata rationale. This fundamental knowledge of anatomical structures, and their basic function, allows the karateka to better understand the rationale behind its tactical strategies, as set forth in kata.

When speaking of Funakoshi Gichin's training methods, Okazaki Teruyuki Sensei wrote, "As he was an academic and scientifically-minded person, he liked to explain how the human body worked and how important it was to use the right technique to the attack the right body parts."

This study alongside the medical implication of karate-related techniques is an absolute must for all serious karateka seeking more than just a cursory understanding of the art.

Niall Keane

Interesting you mention the gae bolg technique, I've worked on it myself, my uncle being an Irish language and culture expert.
My take on it refers to early "Tain" versions less sanitised by Christianity. It speaks of using a short spear with the foot and kicking it into the opponent, (magical barbs then rip through the body -poetic Liscence) then on retraction the opponent is eviscerated.
Now take GAA football and soloing.....
My take on the martial technique, I've trained with a short African spear as opposed to Chinese one is faint high as if over opponents shield - like an overhand punch, holding the spear with balance to base, flick hand and send spear down to use foot to kick it into abdomen of opponent.
Takes practice but then again gung fu means time and effort.
At the battle of the ford too, the "dance with weapons" before the fight is to me warm up form practice / shadow boxing.
Those "scrotals" in the national museum too... They "think" they are to do with fertility rights, as they look similar to creation antiques, but why are they found in abundance in weapon cashes? Because if you take the death of king Conor with a "ball made of boiled brains" and instead look at it as a scrotal the legend makes sense, just like everything else when those without a clue get hold of it, it loses meaning. They all had rings so unlike a sling shot several could have been thrown at a front line. A primitive grenade. Given the Celtic tactic of summersaulting over the Roman front line to attack with two swords from behind, how better to use the Romans shield as a platform to summersault over and using the scrotals to make them "plant" their shields, stabilising the platform! Then think hurling, and the practice of catching a slither with the hurl behind the hand to absorb te force, now replace the hurl with a sword and the slither with a scrotal!
Speculation yes! But a more educated guess than all the book worms that think loads of little balls with rings on them are to do with sexual rituals even if they only turn up with weapons! Of course you'll find loads of "writings" to state they are for rites, does that make them correct?

As for Ming - Ching / Internal - External, debate, who ever created and practiced Nei Jia can be questioned, not the existence of the art itself. the art has always been passed down orally and master to desciple (undergoing bai Shi), and many oral traditions concur. Also there exist many references to it beyond the epitaph that is simply the oldest but only by a decade or so.
Not having a YouTube video of 13th century Nei Jia does not disprove ita existence. And there are many official documents relating to "little nine heavens" and 37 styles which predate Chang San Feng. These arts are said to be "soft" and "Daoist"
As for Dim Mak then with in Nei Jia, the names and metaphors contained within of the postures and forms themselves contain instruction about Dim Mak.
"twin mountain peaks through the ears"
"dot red between the eyes"
Etc etc...

pearsquasher

In Bujinkan we have "kyusho" or "vital points". I think of these like Christmas tree lights (how appropriate!).

When somebody moves, some switch on and some switch off depending on the relative position of the persons anatomical parts. You learn to hit the right one with the right "weapon" at the right time at the right angle through constant practice such that over time you get a feeling/intuition and are able to actually draw an attacker into the worst possible postion to be hit with little effort on your part.

That way, ideally, you use very little strength to excecute a strike which has a huge pay-off. That could mean extreme pain, physiological damage, balance breaking etc

This isn't something you explicitly study but rather an emergent skill form practicing the Bujinkan method of paired practice with full intent/committment.

So vital point charts and remembering particlar points are meaningless as its not the concious mind that knows where/when to hit but the subconcious one.

so when a potential studnets asks me "do you do pressure points". I say ""Yep you pick the knowledge of them up as you train BUT you certainly don't rely on them in a real situation".

The more yiou train, the luckier you get in targeting the most appropriate ones at the right time without even thinking about it.

Sid_Justice

Damo W wrote: »

Anatomically weak areas of the body susceptible to kinetic energy transfer based on the five principles:

1. Location (The precise anatomical structure to be attacked)

2. Tool (Which part of the body [fist, foot, elbow, knee, fingertips, etc.] used to attack with)

3. Angle (The angle of energy transfer)

4. Direction (The direction of energy transfer; i.e. back to front, perpendicular to location, etc.)

5. Intensity (The amount of energy transfer necessary to achieve the desired outcome)

What this essentially means that if you are going to hit something with the intention of damaging it it the damage depends on
where you hit it
what you hit it with
how you hit it
how hard you hit it

I'm not sure why you've broken it down the way you have, are you an engineer or physicist? 'transfer of kinetic energy' it almost sounds like you're trying to obfuscate using jargon.

cletus

I would imagine most non CMA'ers knowledge of Dim Mak comes from George Dillman. I know thats where mine comes from.

I have never trained pressure points at all, but from reading Niall's OP, am I right in saying that if I use, for instance, a rear naked choke, the pressure I apply to the carotid artery can be considered Dim Mak?

Or if I connect with a left hook that lands well and knoks out my opponent this is also Dim Mak?

maguffin

cletus wrote: »

I would imagine most non CMA'ers knowledge of Dim Mak comes from George Dillman. I know thats where mine comes from.

I have never trained pressure points at all, but from reading Niall's OP, am I right in saying that if I use, for instance, a rear naked choke, the pressure I apply to the carotid artery can be considered Dim Mak?

Or if I connect with a left hook that lands well and knoks out my opponent this is also Dim Mak?

Talking of Mr. Dillman.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0&feature=share

'nuff said

Tim_Murphy

maguffin wrote: »

Talking of Mr. Dillman.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0&feature=share

'nuff said

I bet you that guy at the end put his tongue in the wrong position in his mouth on purpose, what a douche! :rolleyes:

Niall Keane

Cletus,

The RNC would be refered to in Nei Jia Chuan as "Embrase Tiger's Head" and refers to a legend of a knight errant killing a man eating tiger. It can be done (the Nei Jia technique) on front or behind, forwards, a forearm is used to push and slide across the neck exposing and crushing windpipe and arteries while other hand pulls and locks neck, but in either case theres the idea of twisting te opponents head, or "keeping the tigers mouth away from you" which has that effect.

As for hooks... And landing on the sweet spot, well again what I mentioned before "twin mountain peaks through the ears" is about using the index finger large knuckle alone as the striking surface, and using the principal of "gyrating arms" - stepping and waist recovery to prevent any leaks of power and tighten up the strike making it more difficult to counter. It's aimed at the ears to maximise chance of success, should te opponent turn his head.

(Like the sword move "dot read between the eyes" I mentioned, we aim between the eyes not to hit some "psychic centre" but to take into account the opponents flinch and increase our chances of taking one of his eyes. )

This is difficult to describe here, as also hand in hand with the actual strike goes methods of enticement to open up the opponent by offering profit, and using his intention against him, breakIng his technique but not his intent, so his own action aids our counter without it being diminished by blocking or stopping him.
I mentioned the four areas each orthodox technique has, and each relate, so embrace tigers head has a clinch / wrestling throw, a striking technique, a locking technique and the dim Mak technique I refered to, but each also relate to each other offering smart and efficient counters to his counter so to speak.

(Now near in mind that orthodox technique is used only to "teach" a student certain "jin" (efficient force in the right direction) and basically open the eyes to its uses. They're not prescriptive except to low level practitioners, even the classics state "once we have principle we can abandon technique" )

So I would agree your RNC is identicle to a Dim Mak application. As I said real Dim Mak isn't mysterious nor secret.

As for Dillman etc. well why is a kempo type guy using a Cantonese king fu term? Saddly I think it could be the death of real CMA, there's so many bull**** artists using gung fu terms to lend authority to what they do, that the real stuff is becoming secret, hidden by lies, and totally misunderstood.

pablohoney87

So are you basically saying that Dim Mak is a Kung Fu term that can be used to descride any technique that can end a fight?

Niall Keane

pablohoney87 wrote: »

So are you basically saying that Dim Mak is a Kung Fu term that can be used to descride any technique that can end a fight?

No it means to apply precise pressure localised on nerves arteries vital points etc that aids technique, and sometimes yes can end a fight, choke, knockout or with weapons expose and sever major blood vessels etc... Like a previous poster said it just means having a good idea of the weaknesses and autonomic responses o the human body and targeting such to your advantage. This includes leverage principles and exploiting defensive or recovery reactions to set up such.

Some of the more celebrated techniques do exist, delayed reactions due to rupturing organs, so a slow build up of bleeding before rupture, but first practical and high percentage entering moves that allow you to take advantage and set it up need to be second nature. Dotting does exist, I have once use such to the upper torso of a lad about to share his pint glass with my face, it disarmed him, and had him double up a bit. From there i was able to take advantage and lock him up.

But there are gung training methods to build up strength of fingers for such strikes, I have half decent ability there, my gung method was to strike every door i open with the "secret sword" (ondex and long finger) been doing that now for 15 years, but I do know a lad who does handstands on his index fingers alone, so there's levels of ability, I should add, he has done a hell a lot of Sanshou too, so his "spotting" techniques are backed up with good timing range and angle awareness and control an plenty of experience. Obviously fingers like steel have uses in clinch, strikes etc... One shouldn't waste time "focusing" on developing such polished weapons, there's more than enough in MA to worry about. But I do have to open doors, and my friend does build up core strength with those hand stands too.

But It doesn't have to be with fingers like many think, one I often use is where I fail a single leg takedown, have hold of the opponents leg and use my shoulder to apply pressure downwards to nerves 1 palm below the hip joint causing pain and an involuntary reaction that drops the opponent. Saves me from having to waste energy using "brute force" to force him down. Perhaps you are well aware of this trick, of not give it a go.

Real Dim Mak is above all practical!

Sid_Justice

Niall Keane wrote: »

Dotting does exist, I have once use such to the upper torso of a lad about to share his pint glass with my face, it disarmed him, and had him double up a bit. From there i was able to take advantage and lock him up.

What you are saying that you were in a fight with a drunk in a pub and he was in your opinion, going to glass you. You then poked him really hard with your fingers held very tightly together in a number of different spots around his torso which causes him to drop his pint glass and seize up. Can you go into any more detail on this?

my gung method was to strike every door i open with the "secret sword" (ondex and long finger) been doing that now for 15 years, hell a lot of Sanshou too, so his "spotting" techniques are backed up

in your private and professional life you open doors by hitting them with your index and 'long' finger? this allows you to build up their strength and resilience allowing you to poke people with them very forcefully without breaking them?

But It doesn't have to be with fingers like many think, one I often use is where I fail a single leg takedown, have hold of the opponents leg and use my shoulder to apply pressure downwards to nerves 1 palm below the hip joint causing pain and an involuntary reaction that drops the opponent. Saves me from having to waste energy using "brute force" to force him down. Perhaps you are well aware of this trick, of not give it a go.

You intentionally fail a single leg take down, then you apply pressure with your shoulder against the sciatic nerve (presumably, perhaps femoral) which causes them pain and impedes their ability to keep balance. Has this every worked on someone of experience (in the way that you describe it)?

Real Dim Mak is above all practical!

Real Dim Mak is hitting people in particularly vulnerable places on the body and then looking up the spots in an anatomy book to make you sound like a ninja.

Niall Keane

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Niall Keane wrote: »

Dotting does exist, I have once use such to the upper torso of a lad about to share his pint glass with my face, it disarmed him, and had him double up a bit. From there i was able to take advantage and lock him up.

Sid: What you are saying that you were in a fight with a drunk in a pub and he was in your opinion, going to glass you. You then poked him really hard with your fingers held very tightly together in a number of different spots around his torso which causes him to drop his pint glass and seize up. Can you go into any more detail on this?

Niall: Not a number of times, once, causing him to drop the glass an wince and fold slightly with pain, allowing me time to close and control. I think I already said this, but this is what I mean, mention of dim Mak sends everyone thinking of the jade fox scene in crouching tiger which it is not. Not your fault, especially when some "masters" let on that this is what it is.

my gung method was to strike every door i open with the "secret sword" (ondex and long finger) been doing that now for 15 years, hell a lot of Sanshou too, so his "spotting" techniques are backed up

Sid: in your private and professional life you open doors by hitting them with your index and 'long' finger? this allows you to build up their strength and resilience allowing you to poke people with them very forcefully without breaking them?

Niall: Yes

But It doesn't have to be with fingers like many think, one I often use is where I fail a single leg takedown, have hold of the opponents leg and use my shoulder to apply pressure downwards to nerves 1 palm below the hip joint causing pain and an involuntary reaction that drops the opponent. Saves me from having to waste energy using "brute force" to force him down. Perhaps you are well aware of this trick, of not give it a go.

Sid: You intentionally fail a single leg take down, then you apply pressure with your shoulder against the sciatic nerve (presumably, perhaps femoral) which causes them pain and impedes their ability to keep balance. Has this every worked on someone of experience (in the way that you describe it)?

Niall: No I never said intentionally, but its trained and there should the double / single sieze legs fail, and yes it has worked against world class Sanda fighters, principles as it works with natural recovery and counters, I would do double leg takedowns butting and lifting the opponents abdomen, getting under his ribs with my shoulders, rather than fall and bring / drag him down, so the natural reaction of a goo fighter if he has caught it is to sprawl, but the initial holder lift / strike causes a double over effect on one side and I have entering methods that I won't disclose, that would be a disservice to my fighters, that entice exactly such a response. See real Nei Jia is based around Nei Gung which fundamentally explores the bodies potential powerful movement, so good Nei Jia is safe and never takes unnecessary risk that means being fully aware and prepared or your opponents potential, and leading him / restricting him to limited choices. You still go for the initial throw, the expression from the classics that explains this is "the Jin is broken, the intent unbroken" . We are now touching on what makes an art "internal" and Truely that is beyond clarification with words.

Real Dim Mak is above all practical!

Sid: Real Dim Mak is hitting people in particularly vulnerable places on the body and then looking up the spots in an anatomy book to make you sound like a ninja.

Niall: No Sid, believe it or not, some systems actually teach their students what their predecessors have acquired, kinda makes sense, it usually takes many generations to develop effective weapons. BJJ didn't pop into existence, Chang San Feng didn't really dream he met Zhen Wu and design the next day tai chi Chuan. Your a man who seems to enjoy left hemisphere logic, well which is better to constantly seek to reinvent the wheel, or to record that, and pass it on to allow for even further innovation and improvement?


Sorry everyone reading for the method of quoting, boards mobile really sucks at this :-(

Niall Keane

Btw some of favourites that worked in pro sanda were adding a twist and locking the knee joint of the opponents kick I caught applying pressure to an area 1 palm above his knee as I threw him, this ensured the throw I felt and deterred a clinch response.
Another follow to that, should he manage a clinch, maybe I was off in timing, I would follow his force, spin and step back with his leg in one arm tripping him over my other heel, simultaneously using the elbow of my guard to crush down into that area. From experience it almost emptied any resistance they had. Wasn't risky, it was part of my guard that I also used offensively. And no accident that I looked up after the fact!
Should he force down the caught leg, then "soft" skills come into play, letting the leg slip, and using the exact same dynamic landing an overhand aimed downward to his cheek bone a he fell forward. Again Dim Mak. So being "soft" enough "to give up the self and follow the opponent" , not breaking my intent and changing tactic but letting go of a broken technique. Surely this "softness" is core to BJJ aswell? So I'm hoping you fully understand this, though I appreciate I'm painting colours with words?

There are also tricks such as palm shapes and forearm twists that allow one to find points without having to consciously seek them, that makes use of pressure points immediate and practical and after a number of years training such skills (primarily this is trained in tui shou push hands) it is no accident that you use them.

Sid_Justice

Not a number of times, once, causing him to drop the glass an wince and fold slightly with pain, allowing me time to close and control.

Where'd you hit him?

Raging_Ninja

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Where'd you hit him?

knee in the balls?

Niall Keane

Upper chest near shoulder ,
Look I understand challenging everything said, isn't that the reason we "test" ourselves through full contact competition, we don't even trust ourselves!

But I was really hoping that this wouldn't become a "is it real or not?" which has been done to death, of you think it's a crock of sh1t an have no interest, fair enough, noone is forcing you to read, but maybe, just maybe here's a chance for those who practice such to share practical advice on how and why they train and how they found stuff to work, and what they themselves like, that way this thread might actually do what a million of Internet warriors who question everything aggressively when it comes to dim Mak fail to do, that is some of the real useful stuff might get aired.
I'm sure there will be crouching dragon stuff, I simply intend to read what peoples views are, I can use my own mind to decide if it's worthy or not, or test it down the gym, and I do come to this knowing my perspective is limited as is everyone's, and maybe if I listen I might actually learn something useful?

Looking at the first few posts, the one about the aspects to be trained, target, weapon, direction etc, well that reminded me of the "six secret words" of Tai Chi Chuan, which are useless to anyone else, but form a method of focusing until the student no longer needs to focus but does it automatically. That's their use, not that it's something noone else does, and I found it interesting that precision was trained in that art with this conscious aid. The similarities and the differences.

So, I've given several examples of what I found to work high percentage, I'd personally love to hear more of what people find works, and also how they train for it.

Before people ask, I won't divulge the 6 secret words, their use is only to tai chi students, and the fact that they're "secret" means they are information coveted and not discarded and forgotten.

Sid_Justice

these are examples of the application of dim mak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeLUlk9d9W0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFt_k-8yTIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv8r7JLoFnE

I think other applications (some (but not all) of which you've described) are not very realistic. for example, in BJJ you often hold people between your legs in guard. And often beginners, brutes or particularly belligerent people press their elbow forcefully into you sartorius muscle or along one of your quad muscles. This illicit a pain response, and their intention is to capitalise on any reaction you have to this. Anyone who has been doing BJJ for a year etc. will know that this pain response can be ignored.

you can take this example and move it all around the body from people squeezing your trapezius to poking you in pec major. Which high levels of skill and control some of these squeezes can get you a submission in sport grappling (calf/bicep crusher etc.).

Now by in large, if you walk up to someone unaware and squeezed their shoulder really hard they'd get a fright, illicit a reflex and will drop their pint glass or what ever. But in a sword fight, there is no amount of squeezing would make a guy drop his sword. But I take your point your example was about surprising an aggressor with a swift strike to a weak part temporarily incapacitating him.

Like I completely accept the point that the principles behind Dim Mak are exploiting anatomical weaknesses (the body is full of anatomical weaknesses, you'd be better off listing the anatomical strong parts (forehead, xiphoid process, tibia etc.) and anticipating certain reflexes or stereotypes responses. But I completely reject this idea that anyone really uses them outside the examples I show in the video.I am open to persuasion.

For stuff you see in movies the only thing that I am aware of that correlates scientifically is the vaso-vagal response/reflex. If you rub someone's neck near baroreceptors, the vagus nerve will carry parasympathetic nerve impulses to the heart slowing it. People can faint from this. But I don't see it ever being applicable to a fight.

Barry.Oglesby

Sid_Justice wrote: »

For stuff you see in movies the only thing that I am aware of that correlates scientifically is the vaso-vagal response/reflex. If you rub someone's neck near baroreceptors, the vagus nerve will carry parasympathetic nerve impulses to the heart slowing it. People can faint from this. But I don't see it ever being applicable to a fight.

The thing about that one is, even if it DID work in a fight, and I'm not saying it does, you WOULD NEVER hear anyone bragging about using it. That's because...

... what happens in vagus, stays in vagus...


I'll get me coat.

Chris89

Anyone / everyone Dim??

I have been known to Dim on occasion, what of it?