Barrell Burners ?

vixdname

Lads, just a quick one.....I've heard and seen on Boards numerous times that the .220 swift for example is known as a barrel burner, what makes one round more of a barrel burner more then another and why dont the rifle manufacturers improve the barrels of these barrel burner calibers to stop them being barrel burners ?
Lastly, what calibers are know as barrel burners ?

Thanks a million lads !

stick shooter

What you are trying to avoid is " overbore " cartridge . This is where the water capacity compared to the calibre is quiet high . In other words 25-06 would be an overbore as compared to a 30-06.
BIG case+small diameter . bullet + LOTS of powder = barrel burner

Tackleberrywho

Coefficient of friction.
High speed rounds generally.


.220 swift
Any magnum centrefire.

heat caused by friction. IMHO a barrel burner is a <4000 round barrel life

stick shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Coefficient of friction.
High speed rounds generally.


.220 swift
Any magnum centrefire.

heat caused by friction. IMHO a barrel burner is a <4000 round barrel life

Yes and no , Speed is only one factor to take into account . There is a few other elements as well IE. case design and powder .

Tackleberrywho

stick shooter wrote: »

Yes and no , Speed is only one factor to take into account . There is a few other elements as well IE. case design and powder .

Friction more than speed. A longer round travelling at the same angular velocity would cause more friction in the same barrel.

All things being equal

stick shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Friction more than speed. A longer round travelling at the same angular velocity would cause more friction in the same barrel.

All things being equal

Once again yes and no ,I think we should stop calling them barrel burners and start calling then throat ERODERS .By you saying " friction " i guess you mean the diameter of the bore has being altered ?? (ie larger diameter ) . Which is not really the case . First thing that goes is the throat and down at the muzzle but the barrel diameter pretty much stays well within spec .

Tackleberrywho

stick shooter wrote: »

Once again yes and no ,I think we should stop calling them barrel burners and start calling then throat ERODERS .By you saying " friction " i guess you mean the diameter of the bore has being altered ?? (ie larger diameter ) . Which is not really the case . First thing that goes is the throat and down at the muzzle but the barrel diameter pretty much stays well within spec .

I said length, not diameter.

I specifically meant surface area in contact with barrel.
Friction caused by gyroscopic motion through a given area.

A 125 grain Vs 200 grain both travelling at the same speed.

I am being very specific to one cause of barrel wear.

stick shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I said length, not diameter.

I specifically meant surface area in contact with barrel.
Friction caused by gyroscopic motion through a given area.

A 125 grain Vs 200 grain both travelling at the same speed.

I am being very specific to one cause of barrel wear.

Thats like say a 32gr .204 and 155.5gr 308 travelling at the same speed Tought this was like for like on BARREL BURNERS

Tackleberrywho

stick shooter wrote: »

Thats like say a 32gr .204 155.5gr 308 travelling at the same speed Tought this was like for like on BARREL BURNERS

You seem to miss my point.
both same diametre, one head longer than another.

Also, some powders, to generate higher velocities are more corrosive than others.


Getting back to OP.

Rule of tumb, small head blisteringly fast normally is a barrel burner, or a hot loaded heavy Calibre.

Anywho, falling asleep here, up at 5am.
Will continue tomorrow

stick shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

You seem to miss my point.
both same diametre, one head longer than another.

Also, some powders, to generate higher velocities are more corrosive than others.


Getting back to OP.

Rule of tumb, small head blisteringly fast normally is a barrel burner, or a hot loaded heavy Calibre.

Anywho, falling asleep here, up at 5am.
Will continue tomorrow

You have totally gone on a tangent. Ok i will play your game. I will run the LONGER HEAD but i will run a moly round . Think the op was on about a barrel burner . And not what ifs .

Tac

Is a .300 Win Mag a barrel burner?

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

IMHO a barrel burner is a <4000 round barrel life

That would cover a good few calibers even ones not classed as barrel burners.

Personally i would view a caliber that would not give more than 1,800 - 2,200 rounds as a barrel burner.

Sika98k

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

You seem to miss my point.
both same diametre, one head longer than another.

Also, some powders, to generate higher velocities are more corrosive than others.


Getting back to OP.

Rule of tumb, small head blisteringly fast normally is a barrel burner, or a hot loaded heavy Calibre.

Anywho, falling asleep here, up at 5am.
Will continue tomorrow

Propellant powders are not corrosive. Some may be hotter or cooler than others but not corrosive in the true meaning of the word.

.243

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

You seem to miss my point.
both same diametre, one head longer than another.

Also, some powders, to generate higher velocities are more corrosive than others.


Getting back to OP.

Rule of tumb, small head blisteringly fast normally is a barrel burner, or a hot loaded heavy Calibre.

Anywho, falling asleep here, up at 5am.
Will continue tomorrow

so a 95gr remington ballistic bullet will do more damage(it being longer) than a 55gr bullet ????

some powders generate higher velocities because they are faster burning

Glensman

22-250 was always classed as a barrel burner...

I would have thought the .204 would be mild enough?

It wasn't me!

Lots of things contribute. It's certainly not as simple as heat/friction/bore size vs. powder capacity. It's a combination of those and more, and also the term derives from a time when barrel metallurgy isn't what it is now. As a result, it means a lot less now as well. 4000 rounds is certainly not being hard on barrels. Others have stated that the angle of the shoulders and the length of the case neck play a big part. If the case has a short neck and sloping shoulders, more of the burning (as opposed to gases expanding) takes place in the throat of the rifle (or so goes the theory). Mostly the concept of a barrel "burning out" relates to cracking, paving, visible in the first couple of inches of the barrel in front of the throat. If it were as simple as friction, the same would be visible for the full length of the barrel.

tomcat220t

1+for above!
Another factor in barrel wear is BARREL CARE !Not just lazy or poor cleaning habits but fast string shooting will cause premature barrel wear .

It wasn't me!

tomcat220t wrote: »

1+for above!
Another factor in barrel wear is BARREL CARE !Not just lazy or poor cleaning habits but fast string shooting will cause premature barrel wear .

Should have mentioned that alright tc, to say nothing of composition (Chromoly is harder working and harder wearing than stainless). The concept of "barrel burners" these days in a sporting rifle context is pretty meaningless. Even a high intensity centrefire is going to be good for 3k rounds at least in a sporting sense, where it's not going to involve string fire, provided it's properly cleaned and maintained. Shooting targets is a different story with high intensity rounds and stainless barrels. Also, most people shooting medium and big game will never shoot a barrel out to the extent that it stops them harvesting animals. For most people, if a rifle shoots 3" groups, they'll never fail to kill an animal inside 200 yards as a result of the rifle. A gun that shoots 1" groups at 100 is good for accurate shooting out to far further than most people should be shooting.

.243

tomcat220t wrote: »

1+for above!
Another factor in barrel wear is BARREL CARE !Not just lazy or poor cleaning habits but fast string shooting will cause premature barrel wear .

very true tomcat,that was the classic case for the .17 remington when it arrived here and was a great fox round,unfortunatly back then the supply of correct cleaning gear didnt follow them

Tackleberrywho

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I said length, not diameter.

I specifically meant surface area in contact with barrel.
Friction caused by gyroscopic motion through a given area.

A 125 grain Vs 200 grain both travelling at the same speed.

I am being very specific to one cause of barrel wear.

Did anyone say there was only 1 Cause of barrel wear?
Powder talk may be referred to loaders as I do not know enough about it personally having never done it.

IMHO, Cleaning too much, or too little amongst several other factors.

I "hope" my .308 is good for 10,000 rounds, and Thus not be considered a barrell Burner....



Another poster asked about a .300 Win mag, @ 7.30 a box will barrel wear be a factor, before Money does??

Vegeta

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Another poster asked about a .300 Win mag, @ 7.30 a box will barrel wear be a factor, before Money does??

Clearly the 7.30 is a typo but .300 win mag ammo is not as dear as people would have you believe.

20 rounds of 180 grain Hornady SST ammo is 45-48 euro. Remember paying very similar for quality .270 ammo as well.

It wasn't me!

Your .308 will probably be good for 10k rounds, because it's a hunting rifle, and the demands are so much less than for a target rifle and the circumstances in which it's shot are so different. Will you notice an appreciable loss of accuracy before then? I would say yes. Will it matter worth a damn? No. Also, a .300 win mag costs about €5 more a box than say a .270 or a .30-06, maybe €7 or €8 more than a .308 at most. It's not going to bankrupt any hunter to shoot one over the other.

Tackleberrywho

Vegeta wrote: »

Clearly the 7.30 is a typo but .300 win mag ammo is not as dear as people would have you believe.

20 rounds of 180 grain Hornady SST ammo is 45-48 euro. Remember paying very similar for quality .270 ammo as well.

It should have said E47, (dodgy work typewriter.)

That still is Mad money to be putting a lot of rounds down range, cost E100 just to break in a barrel.:eek:
I broke my .308 in for E25

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Your .308 will probably be good for 10k rounds, because it's a hunting rifle, and the demands are so much less than for a target rifle and the circumstances in which it's shot are so different. Will you notice an appreciable loss of accuracy before then? I would say yes. Will it matter worth a damn? No. Also, a .300 win mag costs about €5 more a box than say a .270 or a .30-06, maybe €7 or €8 more than a .308 at most. It's not going to bankrupt any hunter to shoot one over the other.

Another great reason for a .308 as a Hunting barrel.

And backs up my point that Does it matter how many thousand rounds are fired when you will be sparing on rounds as E10,000 for around 5000 rounds WILL break most Hunters, especially after yesterdays Budget bring up teh price of AMMO

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It should have said E47, (dodgy work typewriter.)

That still is Mad money to be putting a lot of rounds down range, cost E100 just to break in a barrel.:eek:
I broke my .308 in for E25

Can buy PRVI stuff for €90/100 rounds or thereabouts to break in a barrel, won't break the bank. It'll also let you put plenty of rounds downrange, which is doubly important with a bigger gun, to maintain level of proficiency. No point trying to say it's too expensive by comparing the most expensive stuff to cheap ****e in the .308.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Can buy PRVI stuff for €90/100 rounds or thereabouts to break in a barrel, won't break the bank. It'll also let you put plenty of rounds downrange, which is doubly important with a bigger gun, to maintain level of proficiency. No point trying to say it's too expensive by comparing the most expensive stuff to cheap ****e in the .308.

HPS .308 E55 for 50 Target and E99 for 50 Hunting

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Another great reason for a .308 as a Hunting barrel.

And backs up my point that Does it matter how many thousand rounds are fired when you will be sparing on rounds as E10,000 for around 5000 rounds WILL break most Hunters, especially after yesterdays Budget bring up teh price of AMMO

Eh, considering *most* hunters don't shoot more than a couple of hundred rounds a year, no typical round is going to break the bank. If you're spending the money on quality factory rifles with top end glass, then trying to argue that ammo costing €40 a box is infinitely better value and more sensible than ammo costing €45 a box, when you won't use ten boxes a year, then you're really not keeping an eye on economy in the first place. A .308 is a great cartridge, but it's not a magic one. Bigger .30 calibres do do things it can't, at not much more cost. Not like anyone's spending that €10k in one sitting when it'll take them fifteen years to shoot out that barrel.

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

HPS .308 E55 for 50 Target and E99 for 50 Hunting

Yes, and the .300 mag can be shot even cheaper, and it'll be a hunting bullet too, one way or another. This isn't an argument about the .308 vs. the .300 mag at all, and the appreciable barrel life (You'll easily get 5k out of a .300 mag for the same relative loss as you'll see in a .308 at 10k) is meaningless, since you'll probably rebarrel out of boredom/curiosity/desire to try something new long before then since it's the difference between maybe fifteen years and maybe thirty of barrel life.

Vegeta

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

And backs up my point that Does it matter how many thousand rounds are fired when you will be sparing on rounds as E10,000 for around 5000 rounds WILL break most Hunters, especially after yesterdays Budget bring up teh price of AMMO

How many rounds are you using a season???

5000 rounds would be about 80 years supply if shooting 60 rounds a season. I'll be long dead in 80 years.

.243

Tac wrote: »

Is a .300 Win Mag a barrel burner?

i would think so,considering you are pushing .30cal bullet with twice the amount of powder behind it compared to the .308

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It should have said E47, (dodgy work typewriter.)

What price are you paying for Superperformance?

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

........... you will be sparing on rounds as E10,000 for around 5000 rounds WILL break most Hunters, ........

€2 a round. About average.