Milk Result Low protein

RedPeppers

Hi,

I have a question that some of ye here might be able to answer.

Our last couple of milk results have come back protein 2.90% and 2.80%. Milking all British Fresians. We are feeding 16% protein nut 2kg per day. What could be causing the low results. It hasnt been great all year but now its gone to hell altogether. Any advice appreciated.

whelan1

how long are they calved? what else are they eating?

John_F

protein in the diet will drive milk not solids, energy will drive protein, so looks like you need to get in more energy? barley, wheat, maize meal, maize silage?? whats your fat at? i read somewhere if theres greater than 1 percent of a difference between fat and protein you have a problem. what is lactose. how are they condition wise?

dar31

low milk protien is a sign of poor enegry in the diet
assuming the cows are spring calving, then 2.9 would be exceptionally low at this time of year, and they are more that likely losing condition.
what is the silage quality like??
get the feed co. rep to run it through a feed program and see how the diet fairs.
condition lost now will be have got back on to cows and could lead to problems with fertility next spring.






(it could be related to any one of big diseases, but we cant say that to loud around here)

fatoftheland

maize meal drives milk protein as it break down into the main building block for milk protein so check the label and make sure its in it. this year silage is wet and cows dry matter intake is very low. some 75+ dmd silage is maintanance only. watch out for rumen fluke as the will cause havoc if its there.

funny man

RedPeppers wrote: »

Hi,

I have a question that some of ye here might be able to answer.

Our last couple of milk results have come back protein 2.90% and 2.80%. Milking all British Fresians. We are feeding 16% protein nut 2kg per day. What could be causing the low results. It hasnt been great all year but now its gone to hell altogether. Any advice appreciated.

It more than likely is an energy defficiency in the diet and probably your silage is feeding out poorer than it looks or your feeding something else that has low ME. Get a sample done of your feed but if you have better silage try them on that while you wait on the results.

stanflt

poor breeding coupled with poor feeding-

im going to get slated for saying this:)

jeff greene

stanflt wrote: »

poor breeding coupled with poor feeding-

im going to get slated for saying this:)

Well, they're British Frisian so its not breeding:pac:

flatout11

stanflt wrote: »

poor breeding coupled with poor feeding-

im going to get slated for saying this:)

well someone had to say it

jeff greene

flatout11 wrote: »

well someone had to say it

I think more info would be needed first though, stage of lactation, milk yield, silage quality, EBI:pac:. Two kgs isn't enough unless stale and on excellent silage

whelan1

whats your protein at , mines 3.4, being fed 50/50 grass/ triticale and 21% meal in silage and 4 kg 20% nut in parlour

stanflt

whelan1 wrote: »

whats your protein at , mines 3.4, being fed 50/50 grass/ triticale and 21% meal in silage and 4 kg 20% nut in parlour

mines at 3.51 cows averaging 24.15lts in tank

being fed 32kg fresh of 79dmd silage
10kg fresh brewers
1.5kg fresh straw
21kg fresh maize

no meal in tmr
being fed to yield in parlour avg 3.5kg of 18% nuts


first year of no meal in tmr-last year avg was 4kg of 28%high energy/maize balancer-
no real difference in milk output and cows are in better condition this year-

whelan1

i'm happy with mine as we never bred for protein until the last year or so, bf at 4.14 and lactose at 4.65

PMU

stanflt wrote: »

mines at 3.51 cows averaging 24.15lts in tank

being fed 32kg fresh of 79dmd silage
10kg fresh brewers
1.5kg fresh straw
21kg fresh maize

no meal in tmr
being fed to yield in parlour avg 3.5kg of 18% nuts


first year of no meal in tmr-last year avg was 4kg of 28%high energy/maize balancer-
no real difference in milk output and cows are in better condition this year-

as a matter of interest,(from a former liquid supplier) how much does this ration cost per cow per day. Pat

stanflt

PMU wrote: »

as a matter of interest,(from a former liquid supplier) how much does this ration cost per cow per day. Pat

around 3.06euro per day allowing 7%for wastage on silage/maize

keep going

stanflt wrote: »

poor breeding coupled with poor feeding-

im going to get slated for saying this:)

sorry to bust your bubble but think the op said tests they were fine all the year .suspect cows coming in doors and eating poor silage and 2 kilos not enough for cows off grass. whats lactose

feckin day gone again!!

they need 18% protein if not more..

funny man

why is feeding 2kgs considered as starvation. The op poster posed a genuine question and all he gets is stavation and poor breeding, come on for fcuk sake gave the guy a break.

they need 18% protein if not more

How do you know they need 2% more protien, what is he feeding already, are they spring calvers and so on.

boroboy

could it be a problem with bulk tank?agitator??

fatoftheland

every herd needs a different nutritional advice. a cows overall diet need to be 18% to maximise yiels as it allows them to achieve their potential. however the energy needs to match production also so some need 2 kg per day some need 15 kg per day. feeding to yield will will lift the protein levels in most herds. there is no problem getting 3.5% protein from cows giving 8 gallons,the just need to be fed.

nige2000

think you need a lot more information before you can give advice i.e
stage of lactation silage/ analysis (just a guide)/ meal ingredients/ somatic cell count (can effect milk composition if high) / have the animals been wormed/too much meal feeding acidosis (not this time)

there probably a few others not coming to mind as well

but at 2.9 % there def a problem

but usually it's lack of energy starch is the answer for that wheat/ barley /maize if its got cheap (think it might have improved)

just another point a 16 % nut with grass silage would not be enough to encourage any sort of volume of production would suggest a 18% high energy and 4 kgs

but if your british Friesian cows have already dried off it may be too late to improve volume

better to have reasonable composition and good volume than to have great composition and poor volume (just a pet hate)

PMU

page 4 of the journal,glanbia supplier,"liquid milk is making just 3c/l over manufacturing milk". surely the liquid premium is more than this?

nige2000

PMU wrote: »

page 4 of the journal,glanbia supplier,"liquid milk is making just 3c/l over manufacturing milk". surely the liquid premium is more than this?

havnt read it yet but i would have presumed that a liquid supplier to glanbia after filling a daily liquid contract is oversupply will be paid for as manufacturing so id imagine the price difference would depend on what the suppliers components is
but if the suppliers protein is under 3.3 the gap the price would be wider (but i don't know that for a fact, )

but if your referring to my volume over components pun (within reason of course) you'll just have to look at margin over cost

i often hear stories from people telling me about high components 4.6f% 3.8P%
thinking their the dogs gentiles but when you go through the figures with them you realize their only yielding between 12 and 17 litres and still managing to feed 2- 4 kgs conc cow. when theres other herds can achieve 4.1 and 3.45 on twice the volume abet twice the conc but your feed cost does not stop at meal
not to mention the extra work with the extra cows you need to fill quota

stanflt

nige2000 wrote: »

havnt read it yet but i would have presumed that a liquid supplier to glanbia after filling a daily liquid contract is oversupply will be paid for as manufacturing so id imagine the price difference would depend on what the suppliers components is
but if the suppliers protein is under 3.3 the gap the price would be wider (but i don't know that for a fact, )

but if your referring to my volume over components pun (within reason of course) you'll just have to look at margin over cost

i often hear stories from people telling me about high components 4.6f% 3.8P%
thinking their the dogs gentiles but when you go through the figures with them you realize their only yielding between 12 and 17 litres and still managing to feed 2- 4 kgs conc cow. when theres other herds can achieve 4.1 and 3.45 on twice the volume abet twice the conc but your feed cost does not stop at meal
not to mention the extra work with the extra cows you need to fill quota

liquid supplier here- last month liquid was worth 39.58 and surplus 45.14

will be paid on solids from jan

nige2000

stanflt wrote: »

liquid supplier here- last month liquid was worth 39.58 and surplus 45.14

will be paid on solids from jan

connaught gold ? components must be real high ?

stanflt

nige2000 wrote: »

connaught gold ? components must be real high ?

glanbia-

will finish year at 7500+supplied per cow (icbf co-op performance figures not dodgy milk recording as most lads talk about) at 4.1%fat 3.53% prot

nige2000

stanflt wrote: »

liquid supplier here- last month liquid was worth 39.58 and surplus 45.14

will be paid on solids from jan

why u getting paid on solids in jan can u opt out of liquid contract for a term

stanflt

nige2000 wrote: »

why u getting paid on solids in jan can u opt out of liquid contract for a term

new pricing scheme for liquid- will get paid on solids plus for winter months will get 7.13cent a litre bonus for 6 months-but only for liquid contract-will still recieve winter scheme and baileys on surplus on historical supply litres

Injuryprone

stanflt wrote: »

glanbia-

will finish year at 7500+supplied per cow (icbf co-op performance figures not dodgy milk recording as most lads talk about) at 4.1%fat 3.53% prot

What's this? Can you give some info about how it works please?

stanflt

Injuryprone wrote: »

What's this? Can you give some info about how it works please?

herdplus

report from creameries for the year on actual deliveries and %- divided by all females in herd that have calved and were on farm during the year- cull cows and dry cows will also count

Injuryprone

stanflt wrote: »

herdplus

report from creameries for the year on actual deliveries and %- divided by all females in herd that have calved and were on farm during the year- cull cows and dry cows will also count

Oh that's what your talking about. For a second there, I thought you were saying that the ICBF were now verifying milk recording results against milk supply figures from the co-ops, giving more reliable results for cows. Will thst ever happen i wonder??

nige2000

stanflt wrote: »

new pricing scheme for liquid- will get paid on solids plus for winter months will get 7.13cent a litre bonus for 6 months-but only for liquid contract-will still recieve winter scheme and baileys on surplus on historical supply litres

envious

nige2000

Injuryprone wrote: »

Oh that's what your talking about. For a second there, I thought you were saying that the ICBF were now verifying milk recording results against milk supply figures from the co-ops, giving more reliable results for cows. Will thst ever happen i wonder??

well think tests should be correlated to bulk tank collection milk recorder used to check now and again but not for a while don't know about diy recording
but your only fooling yourself at the end of the day

stanflt

nige2000 wrote: »

envious

who are you supplying

stanflt

nige2000 wrote: »

well think tests should be correlated to bulk tank collection milk recorder used to check now and again but not for a while don't know about diy recording
but your only fooling yourself at the end of the day

milk recording is not accurate its only an indication-a tool for overall management decisions not something to be boasting about-bulk tank samples pay the bills and CANT BE ALTERED. to many farmers saying my herd average is 10000lts per cow yet only supply 6500/cow to the co-op

PMU

stanflt wrote: »

milk recording is not accurate its only an indication-a tool for overall management decisions not something to be boasting about-bulk tank samples pay the bills and CANT BE ALTERED. to many farmers saying my herd average is 10000lts per cow yet only supply 6500/cow to the co-op

true,men selling cows and heifers tend to use these yields.they dont include dry cows in the figures

nige2000

stanflt wrote: »

milk recording is not accurate its only an indication-a tool for overall management decisions not something to be boasting about-bulk tank samples pay the bills and CANT BE ALTERED. to many farmers saying my herd average is 10000lts per cow yet only supply 6500/cow to the co-op

agree but don't think u could skew it that much maybe 15 % but yould have to be able to predict recording days its plausible

supplying emmetts liquid milk

stanflt

nige2000 wrote: »

agree but don't think u could skew it that much maybe 15 % but yould have to be able to predict recording days its plausible

supplying emmetts liquid milk

was on an ELITE herd in the summer herd avg milk recording was 10500 yet only supplied 7400..............his calving interval was close on 500days


so its very easy to skew it

dar31

PMU wrote: »

page 4 of the journal,glanbia supplier,"liquid milk is making just 3c/l over manufacturing milk". surely the liquid premium is more than this?

3.83 c/l differential averaged over the 12 months (over manufacturing)

liquid supplier here- last month liquid was worth 39.58 and surplus 45.14

will be paid on solids from jan

stanflt, your surplus i assume is for baileys contract

done out the figures for winter milking last week. if it wasnt for baileys contract it would not justify filling liquid contract for the year.

under no exception should any milk through the winter be produced at base price / out side of contracted milk

stanflt

dar31 wrote: »

3.83 c/l differential averaged over the 12 months (over manufacturing)



stanflt, your surplus i assume is for baileys contract

done out the figures for winter milking last week. if it wasnt for baileys contract it would not justify filling liquid contract for the year.

under no exception should any milk through the winter be produced at base price / out side of contracted milk

yes my surplus is paid on a+b-c plus baileys bonus

nige2000

dar31 wrote: »

3.83 c/l differential averaged over the 12 months (over manufacturing)



stanflt, your surplus i assume is for baileys contract

done out the figures for winter milking last week. if it wasnt for baileys contract it would not justify filling liquid contract for the year.

under no exception should any milk through the winter be produced at base price / out side of contracted milk

that differential is more the norm although 45 cent/litre would be nice pour some concrete buy some machinery make work life a bit easier

nige2000

stanflt wrote: »

yes my surplus is paid on a+b-c plus baileys bonus

u lucky bugger

dar31

nige2000 wrote: »

that differential is more the norm although 45 cent/litre would be nice pour some concrete buy some machinery make work life a bit easier

the 3.83 c/l is only for liquid contract,
our baileys plus a+b-c was almost 46c/l last month.
however this crudely averages out to only 3.43 c/l over 12 months
(edit: them bonuses are only on the volume of contracted milk)

it might look like a good price for a months milk, but the true value of it isnt all that great.
a lot of work goes into insuring there is a volume of quality milk to meet contracts for a few winter months.

nige2000

ya liquid milk is all about securing a winter volume
but to the producer the milk price has to be averaged out contract and surplus
but you need a good bonus to produce winter milk
summer milk is so much cheaper think u would need 7 cent more to keep same margin but there are other factors such as maintaining yield on a per cow basis

feckin day gone again!!

What u put in u'll get out....do u think 2kgs is enough? I'm nearly giving that to heifirs!! Maybe theres a few cows dragging it down.. Winter milk is not easy thats for sure.. the co.ops nearly want u to carton it for them!!

nige2000

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

What u put in u'll get out....do u think 2kgs is enough? I'm nearly giving that to heifirs!! Maybe theres a few cows dragging it down.. Winter milk is not easy thats for sure.. the co.ops nearly want u to carton it for them!!

i think u need a real high production cow to dilute the overhead costs for winter production
did a calculation several years ago on cost of producing a litre high yield vs low yield

worked out that cost per litre increased when yield fell below 6 gallons
over 6 gallons cost per litre remained constant
calculations based on cows fed tmr yielding between 4 and 13 gallons topped up in parlor feeding @ 0.35 kgs per litre over 25 litres max 8kgs in parlour
i'd assume the principal would still stand in todays terms

so the real heavy milkers would be getting almost 12 kgs per day

SO IS 2 KGS ENOUGH well i wouldn't milk a cow that would only need 2 kgs to sustain production textbook good grass silage will supply enough energy for maintenance plus 12 litres the two kgs will add 5-6 litres to that