Ways to avoid paying the €100 Property Tax

Mach Lei

starbelgrade wrote: »

Meh. The whole thing is absurd... if you're going to protest, then why not protest against the taxes that are actually going to hit your pockets the hardest, like the increased VAT rate, the increased taxes on motoring & carbon taxes? Why protest against the least costly of all the tax hikes?

The property tax is €100.. the equivalent of €1.92 per week. You'll spend more than that on feckin leaflets.

Th only way to try protest about all the other taxes is by setting up a lobby group, to lobby for change in reduction of vat and for carbon tax to be abolished, but general Items of need, the weekly shopping Items can,t be boycotted as there essitial weekly items, the household charge/property tax has to be boycotted its only gonna start €1.92 a week, if they succeed and the majority pay this, in a few years time, when the site valuation tax comes in, you will be charged on the site value and the market value of your property, along with water charges, that is why a national mass boycott is crucial to stop this getting a foot in the door.

tayto lover

To anyone saying "the Property Tax is only 100e, pay up" let me just ask them if they think it will remain at 100e for long?. Once they have you they hike it up and up until it is a huge bill annually. Like the t.v. licence, when they have you on record you are caught for all time. People should refuse to pay this property tax. They can't jail everyone. It is wrong to punish people for going to the trouble and pain of paying a mortgage for years and stamp duty. Enough is enough.

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

To anyone saying "the Property Tax is only 100e, pay up" let me just ask them if they think it will remain at 100e for long?. Once they have you they hike it up and up until it is a huge bill annually. Like the t.v. licence, when they have you on record you are caught for all time. People should refuse to pay this property tax. They can't jail everyone. It is wrong to punish people for going to the trouble and pain of paying a mortgage for years and stamp duty. Enough is enough.

What do your morals say.

tayto lover

mikom wrote: »

What do your morals say.

My morals say that this charge is immoral. Especially when its to hand over to unguaranteed bondholders who should have been told to take a hike.

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

My morals say that this charge is immoral. Especially when its to hand over to unguaranteed bondholders who should have been told to take a hike.

You'd be right.

Tayla

starbelgrade wrote: »

Meh. The whole thing is absurd...

It's not.

starbelgrade wrote: »

if you're going to protest, then why not protest against the taxes that are actually going to hit your pockets the hardest, like the increased VAT rate, the increased taxes on motoring & carbon taxes? Why protest against the least costly of all the tax hikes?

At the moment property tax is one of the only taxes people will be able to refuse to pay.Simple really, how many more times do you need people to explain it to you?

El Horseboxo

baddebt wrote: »

you actually don't got to jail for not paying your TV license , you go through the whole court process , they say you are to spend a week in prison ,

the gardaí take you to the prsion site , you sign in at the door ....the Gardaí then take you home because the prisons don't have any more room
FACT

That happened my mates Da. He got brought to court, said he couldn't afford it and got sentenced. But never actually went to prison. That was about 4 or 5 years ago i think. My mate said they haven't got a letter for renewal since. They never paid the bin thing either. The Da brings the stuff to his job and dumps it in the industrial thing in there. Saves a couple of hundred quid a year for them.

Mach Lei

Tayla wrote: »

It's not.




At the moment property tax is one of the only taxes people will be able to refuse to pay.Simple really, how many more times do you need people to explain it to you?

Since the recession has started we have had, social welfare cuts, wage cuts, Universal social charge, increase in vat, there was not a whole lot that could of being done, but with this household charge/property tax we can actually say no, enough is enough, and refuse to pay and take part in the national boycott, secondly apart from refusing to pay in principle, there will be a lot of people who simply can,t pay, won,t be afford to pay who are and others in that positon will be on board this campaign too.

InReality

TeddyTedson wrote: »

This property tax is a load of crap. I don't own my own house, I doubt I'll ever be able to in this country anyway. But why didn't they raise the property tax on peoples second homes and then introduce larger and larger tax on every additional home they own.

Scared of the protests that would happen if they did that.
I agree they should have.

Mach Lei

ronan45 wrote: »

I guess I will have to pay it :mad: But I thought when i handed over 30 odd grand in stamp duty I would not have to pay the government anymore. I was led to belive I owned the house fully. Now it seems the goverment has shares in my property and need their cut :rolleyes:

I don't think people have actually cottoned on to what this means. This is a tax on your home, it is not a service charge. I have already paid thousands of pounds/euros in taxes on my home so I could own it outright. What this is saying is,I don't own it. It is not like tax on your car, where once you've paid vat or registration tax, the car is yours to do what you like with, any further tax you pay is for access to a public service. This is feudalism by another name. I'm opposed to the fact that the Government want to be given a stake in my home, which I have bought and paid for.

later12

Mach Lei wrote: »

It is not like tax on your car, where once you've paid vat or registration tax, the car is yours to do what you like with, any further tax you pay is for access to a public service.

Oh you mean, like water and sewerage charges for example?

Mach Lei

later10 wrote: »

Oh you mean, like water and sewerage charges for example?

The goverment have already said they Intend to bring in two separate charges, a property tax, and water charges, both would be separted from each other, if succesfully Implemented.

eth0

later10 wrote: »

Oh you mean, like water and sewerage charges for example?

If there is a service the government provides and feels the need to charge for they can do that separately

I don't see "letting me live in my own house" as a 'service' that they provide me.

later12

Mach Lei wrote: »

The goverment have already said they Intend to bring in two separate charges, a property tax, and water charges, both would be separted from each other, if succesfully Implemented.

Yes, I know, but my understanding is that this charge is a precursor to both. It will be phased out when the property tax proper comes through, and by that time we ought to have water charges as well - and that is as it should be.

later12

eth0 wrote: »

If there is a service the government provides and feels the need to charge for they can do that separately

They're waiting until the property valuation mechanism and water charge mechanisms are up and running.

Obviously, when combined, these will end up costing you more than €100

If you want to contribute any extra money to revenue in light of this fact, there is of course a mechanism whereby this can be arranged with Revenue on a voluntary basis.

JohnnyTodd

Does anyone know where do actually make this payment?

Can it be paid now or must we wait until next year?

Mach Lei

JohnnyTodd wrote: »

Does anyone know where do actually make this payment?

Can it be paid now or must we wait until next year?

It will be a self declaration basis, you must delcare to your local authority you are the owner, once after that, you can pay by four Installments or pay all at once, why do you ask? do you Intend to pay this property tax or do you Intend to boycott?

Mach Lei

later10 wrote: »

Yes, I know, but my understanding is that this charge is a precursor to both. It will be phased out when the property tax proper comes through, and by that time we ought to have water charges as well - and that is as it should be.

Yes its a precussor to both, but they might charge for a flat rate water charge in 2013 as well. Id strongly disagree with you about having water charges.

JohnnyTodd

The reason I ask is I have in past let bills stack up. Management fees , tv licences, 2nd property tax etc.

In the end I always have to pay the bloody thing. I'd rather pay the thing now when I can afford it.

I might not be able next year!

Mach Lei

JohnnyTodd wrote: »

The reason I ask is I have in past let bills stack up. Management fees , tv licences, 2nd property tax etc.

In the end I always have to pay the bloody thing. I'd rather pay the thing now when I can afford it.

I might not be able next year!

Just to add in further Info, its only gonna be a flat charge next year, and a flat charge in 2013. if they were to succeed, you will be asked to pay tax on the size of your property and on the current market value of your property, don,t pay next, don,t leave them get one foot in the door, once you have paid, its a slippery slope then.

starbelgrade

Tayla wrote: »

At the moment property tax is one of the only taxes people will be able to refuse to pay.Simple really, how many more times do you need people to explain it to you?

You can refuse to pay it. I understand that - I'm not thick you know. But if you do, then the government will simply claw it back through other form of taxation, thus rendering the refusals & protests futile.

Now, how many more times do you need that explained to you?

Mach Lei

starbelgrade wrote: »

You can refuse to pay it. I understand that - I'm not thick you know. But if you do, then the government will simply claw it back through other form of taxation, thus rendering the refusals & protests futile.

Now, how many more times do you need that explained to you?

Other people have brought this to me in conversation, remember a few years ago when the goverment considered putting a tax on text messages by 3 cent I think it was, if the goverment done that Instead I wouldn,t take issue with it, what I do take issue with, is being asked to pay tax on a home that,s already being taxed via stamp duty, double taxation, and being asked to pay tax on the market value of my property, I take huge issue with that.

starbelgrade

Mach Lei wrote: »

Other people have brought this to me in conversation, remember a few years ago when the goverment considered putting a tax on text messages by 3 cent I think it was, if the goverment done that Instead I wouldn,t take issue with it, what I do take issue with, is being asked to pay tax on a home that,s already being taxed via stamp duty, double taxation, and being asked to pay tax on the market value of my property, I take huge issue with that.

People always take huge issue with paying taxes, but tax has to be paid - it's a simple fact of life.

Most first world countries have property taxes & we had one up to 13 years ago. It's no big deal.. it's less than 30 cent a day & anyone who says they can't afford that is talking through their hole.

Tayla

starbelgrade wrote: »

You can refuse to pay it. I understand that - I'm not thick you know. But if you do, then the government will simply claw it back through other form of taxation, thus rendering the refusals & protests futile.

It's one small thing people can do, it's not about what the tax is for, it's a tax they can't take from your pay check,

i hope the government do act aggressively towards people who won't pay and I hope it makes people more determined to stand by their refusal.

It's only really a matter of time before large scale civil disobedience is the norm once Merkel is dictating our budgets.

LighterGuy

starbelgrade wrote: »

People always take huge issue with paying taxes, but tax has to be paid - it's a simple fact of life.

Most first world countries have property taxes & we had one up to 13 years ago. It's no big deal.. it's less than 30 cent a day & anyone who says they can't afford that is talking through their hole.

I do believe the issue is with the tax itself and it not being 100 euro a year.

Whats next is my opinion. Sure lets go back 15 years or so ... No water charges, didnt cost anything for your bins to get lifted, wasnt as much Tolls on roads etc. Imagine within the next ten years there is a broadband tax or a bicycle tax or something. When does something become too much like.

Tayla

starbelgrade wrote: »

Most first world countries have property taxes & we had one up to 13 years ago. It's no big deal.. it's less than 30 cent a day & anyone who says they can't afford that is talking through their hole.

A property tax would be fine if the country would benefit as a result, why the hell should we have to pay a property tax when we're not going to benefit?

later12

Tayla wrote: »

i hope the government do act aggressively towards people who won't pay and I hope it makes people more determined to stand by their refusal.

The revenue generated from this charge is going to bring in something like €160 million. Not a game changer in the scheme of things.

It will cost you about 28 cent per day, and the money is to be spent on local services like street lighting and other services that benefit householders.

I really think you are being irrational about this.

As another poster said (above) the government will simply find other, and possibly less fair,methods of bridging the adjustment that they must bridge.

eth0

starbelgrade wrote: »

People always take huge issue with paying taxes, but tax has to be paid - it's a simple fact of life.

Most first world countries have property taxes & we had one up to 13 years ago. It's no big deal.. it's less than 30 cent a day & anyone who says they can't afford that is talking through their hole.

It was in the 70's that it was abolished for most houses except the supermassive mansions. Iceland got rid of theirs in 2005 I believe and paying the govt every year for your own house doesn't contribute in any way to making the country first world. In 2 or 3 years it will be well over 1e per day. It says this in the FF election manifesto that FG are getting their policies from.

later10 wrote: »

They're waiting until the property valuation mechanism and water charge mechanisms are up and running.

So you'll end up paying more just because you have a big house. Not because you're earning money you could have absolutely feck all except a roof over your head and you'll be made sell the place just so you can pay their stupid recurring tax on a thing you bought years ago. At least with cars you can declare them off the road and not use them until things improve for you

If this kind of tax was around during the Boom then people quietly minding their own business not buying and selling houses would have ended up paying more and more tax every year because of a few idiots around them pushing up the price of property

tayto lover

later10 wrote: »

The revenue generated from this charge is going to bring in something like €160 million. Not a game changer in the scheme of things.

It will cost you about 28 cent per day, and the money is to be spent on local services like street lighting and other services that benefit householders.

I really think you are being irrational about this.

As another poster said (above) the government will simply find other, and possibly less fair,methods of bridging the adjustment that they must bridge.

Ha ha Do you really believe that the money generated will be used for other services and not handed over to Europe? Really?

eth0

later10 wrote: »

It will cost you about 28 cent per day, and the money is to be spent on local services like street lighting and other services that benefit householders.

Those services have been paid for years using our already income and consumption taxes. If it wasn't for the bondholders we wouldn't need this tax

Tayla

later10 wrote: »

The revenue generated from this charge is going to bring in something like €160 million. Not a game changer in the scheme of things.

It will cost you about 28 cent per day, and the money is to be spent on local services like street lighting and other services that benefit householders.

I really think you are being irrational about this.

As another poster said (above) the government will simply find other, and possibly less fair,methods of bridging the adjustment that they must bridge.

It's due in March I think, also if you're paying by installments I think the first payment is supposed to be paid by then too.

So by March I just want them to see that some of us have had enough of them. As I said already, I hope they respond agressively and going by their arrogance i'm sure they will.

I respect your opinion and fair enough you think i'm being irrational, doesn't really bother me but I think you're missing out on the bigger picture.

starbelgrade

LighterGuy wrote: »

I do believe the issue is with the tax itself and it not being 100 euro a year.

If the protests are about the tax then why this tax in particular?

The increase in the VAT rate & the increase in taxes on motoring will cost people a lot more than this tax will. Why not protest about that?

The government had a chance to raise the PAYE rate on top earners. They chose not to. Why not protest about that?

I'll tell you why... because are lazy. Lazy & stupid. Lazy in that this is the only tax where they can say, "Oh, I'm not paying that" and stupid because of all the taxes they could protest against, this is the one that will least affect them financially.

tayto lover

starbelgrade wrote: »

If the protests are about the tax then why this tax in particular?

The increase in the VAT rate & the increase in taxes on motoring will cost people a lot more than this tax will. Why not protest about that?

The government had a chance to raise the PAYE rate on top earners. They chose not to. Why not protest about that?

I'll tell you why... because are lazy. Lazy & stupid. Lazy in that this is the only tax where they can say, "Oh, I'm not paying that" and stupid because of all the taxes they could protest against, this is the one that will least affect them financially.

Maybe people see no justifiable reason to pay a tax on their own property. Anyone who paid a mortgage has already paid 3 or 4 times the value of the house imo. When they now own the house the Govt come along and want them to pay more. No we have enough. When we pay the other taxes we get something for our money but nothing for this one. I won't be paying it as i find it unjust.

starbelgrade

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe people see no justifiable reason to pay a tax on their own property. Anyone who paid a mortgage has already paid 3 or 4 times the value of the house imo. When they now own the house the Govt come along and want them to pay more. No we have enough.

So it's OK on one hand to complain about the government putting a tax on your property, but it's also OK to accept tax breaks from the government on your mortgage payment with the other hand?

Curva Sud

How about nobody pays it.What are they going to do about it.Throw us all in jail ?

tayto lover

starbelgrade wrote: »

So it's OK on one hand to complain about the government putting a tax on your property, but it's also OK to accept tax breaks from the government on your mortgage payment with the other hand?

When i signed for my mortgage i was given a number to repay each month. What it entailed i didn't know at the time. I paid back what i was asked. I also paid Stamp Duty to the Government. The house is now mine, site and all. I can't drive it on the roads, it does not drink or use petrol. I pay any charges i have that i get a service for. The house is mine, not the Governments. Not paying anything else and have discussed it with the family. Prepared to go to jail for my principles too.

Jimoslimos

starbelgrade wrote: »

If the protests are about the tax then why this tax in particular?

The increase in the VAT rate & the increase in taxes on motoring will cost people a lot more than this tax will. Why not protest about that?

Because people can '"avoid" those taxes by spending and driving less often. It's pretty difficult to avoid a tax just for existing in the house you own.

charlemont

I'm renting but my family all own their houses and I just hope they don't pay but they are all too law abiding (Where did they get me out of then ?).

They would be of the opinion "Oh But we have to pay".

tayto lover

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Because people can '"avoid" those taxes by spending and driving less often. It's pretty difficult to avoid a tax just for existing in the house you own.

That's why it is a corrupt tax in my opinion.Next they will tax you because you have a head or some other equally ridiculous reason.

Jimoslimos

It wouln't surprise me if in the future this ends up as a sort of 'council tax' akin to the UK, where occupier not owner pays.

But at the moment it's simply a mechanism for collecting lost stamp duty revenue since we haven't been going wild buying houses since the downturn.

Mach Lei

starbelgrade wrote: »

People always take huge issue with paying taxes, but tax has to be paid - it's a simple fact of life.

Most first world countries have property taxes & we had one up to 13 years ago. It's no big deal.. it's less than 30 cent a day & anyone who says they can't afford that is talking through their hole.

I get what you re saying about other countries having a property tax or a council tax like in the uk, but there,s actual services provided.

Council Tax helps pay for local services like policing and rubbish collection

The money collected from council tax accounts for 24% of Kent County Council's total spending and the money pays for public services such as social care, roads, waste disposal

http://www.kent.gov.uk/your_council/council_tax.aspx

We won,t get any such services with this household charge/property tax, I pay for my own waste, I pay motor tax to contribute to building and repairing of roads, whereas the household charge/property tax is mainly to pay off private bankers debts, so not a chance Im gonna be paying property tax.

starbelgrade

Mach Lei wrote: »

I get what you re saying about other countries having a property tax or a council tax like in the uk, but there,s actual services provided.

We won,t get any such services with this household charge/property tax, I pay for my own waste, I pay motor tax to contribute to building and repairing of roads, whereas the household charge/property tax is mainly to pay off private bankers debts, so not a chance Im gonna be paying property tax.

Tax doesn't get spent in proportion to the things it gets collected from... tax revenue from all sources is just divided up & spent as the government deem fit.

This is just another stream of revenue. If they'd have called it a Water Service to Property tax, would it have made any difference?

Jimoslimos

starbelgrade wrote: »

Tax doesn't get spent in proportion to the things it gets collected from... tax revenue from all sources is just divided up & spent as the government deem fit.

This is just another stream of revenue. If they'd have called it a Water Service to Property tax, would it have made any difference?

True, and the tax will be collected one way or another. It's just that it could have been done a little more tactfully under a different guise. A lot of homeowners in negative equity/debt will see this as unfair targeting since they already spent shedloads on stamp duty. Double taxation?

One other point, if you are currently paying off a mortgage can you truly be classified as a 'homeowner'? It's the banks/building societies that technically hold the deeds of the property.

starbelgrade

Jimoslimos wrote: »

True, and the tax will be collected one way or another. It's just that it could have been done a little more tactfully under a different guise. A lot of homeowners in negative equity/debt will see this as unfair targeting since they already spent shedloads on stamp duty. Double taxation?

The budget saw an increase in mortgage interest relief for anyone who bought during the boom, so they won't be left short by paying the property tax.

I suppose they could have called it something else, but why spin it?

K-9

I don't really get the stamp duty argument either, if it was that high and objectionable people didn't have to buy or could have bought cheaper houses. You chose to pay huge stamp duty, it doesn't give you a pass on property taxes for the rest of your life.

I've paid plenty of income tax, doesn't mean I don't decide not to pay the USC.

Jimoslimos

starbelgrade wrote: »

The budget saw an increase in mortgage interest relief for anyone who bought during the boom, so they won't be left short by paying the property tax.

I suppose they could have called it something else, but why spin it?

I guess, the overwhelming feeling is that if there is to be a general tax, it should be applied 'generally' across the board and not directly solely at an easily targeted group.

K-9 wrote: »

I don't really get the stamp duty argument either, if it was that high and objectionable people didn't have to buy or could have bought cheaper houses. You chose to pay huge stamp duty, it doesn't give you a pass on property taxes for the rest of your life.

The stamp duty argument isn't about whether people overextended themselves buying. It's more to do with this new tax being seen as a way to regain monies lost due to falling stamp duty revenues. Why should people, who've already paid SD, be targeted twice because nobody else is buying houses anymore? It's not their fault.

I should point out I'm not a homeowner so have no vested interest in this tax;)

eth0

Jimoslimos wrote: »

The stamp duty argument isn't about whether people overextended themselves buying. It's more to do with this new tax being seen as a way to regain monies lost due to falling stamp duty revenues. Why should people, who've already paid SD, be targeted twice because nobody else is buying houses anymore? It's not their fault.

I should point out I'm not a homeowner so have no vested interest in this tax;)

but why should anyone at all pay every year just for owning a once-off purchase? Stamp duty is at least something you pay when you can afford it

Not having property tax was one of the great things about Ireland. No matter how bad things got they wouldn't take your own house just because you couldn't pay some silly recurring tax that comes along every year. Now when I'm finished my 2.5k a year 'free' eduction I might as well go to some other country where you actually get something in return for paying this tax not just to pay off an unpayable mountain of debt

Here in Ireland we've grown accustomed to getting absolutely nothing back from the government. During FF's giveaway budgets it was always the dole & pension going up and various other disadvantaged groups getting massive handouts but ordinary people gained very little from even the most generous budgest.

Spread

Have not read all the earlier posts. Have I got to pay the tax on an empty house in Ireland?

And secondly, people around here pay about $6000 pa property tax on an average sized three bedroom home. They moan about it but cough up. If you fall into arrears and cannot catch up - you lose your home.

mikom

Spread wrote: »

And secondly, people around here pay about $6000 pa property tax on an average sized three bedroom home. They moan about it but cough up. If you fall into arrears and cannot catch up - you lose your home.

What does it pay for?

Spread

Jimoslimos wrote: »

True, and the tax will be collected one way or another. It's just that it could have been done a little more tactfully under a different guise. A lot of homeowners in negative equity/debt will see this as unfair targeting since they already spent shedloads on stamp duty. Double taxation?

One other point, if you are currently paying off a mortgage can you truly be classified as a 'homeowner'? It's the banks/building societies that technically hold the deeds of the property.

Very good point Jimoslimos. You should contact Ming and ask him to raise this point officially.