Ways to avoid paying the €100 Property Tax

drkpower

charlemont wrote: »

Funny how we only need a property tax now just to pay banks,

Its not just to pay the banks. Do you know the amount that interest on the loan we got to pay the banks contributes to our annual deficit? If not, you should do some research on it.

drkpower

Am Chile wrote: »

.......there,s gonna be a mass boycott.

If the government introduce the amendment to the Fines Act, any mass boycott will be pointless.

mickydoomsux

charlemont wrote: »

Funny how we only need a property tax now just to pay banks, ....

You do realise that 33%+ of our governments spending is on Social Welfare payments and that figure is slowly creeping upward with our aging population profile and unemployment? There is a slightly smaller percentage spent on health, justice, etc.

The banks/IMF will be paid off in a few years. The SW and public spending will never end. That's why your taxes are going up and will probably never go down again.

minidazzler

Kat1170 wrote: »

For ****s sake,every second thread, the Germans do this, the Germans do that, they killed 6+ million people in the gas chambers, should we do that as well :mad::mad:

Credit where credits jew, they killed 6 million jews and around 5 million other people from Soviets to Homosexuals.

entropi

It was on the radio earlier, that they are considering bringing in measures to try have it stopped automatically from a bank account/dole payments. Dirty money grabbing cnutbags, would rather line their/their cronies pockets than leave the people who need it alone.

mikom

Latest Sunday Times poll

FG 30 down 7
SF 21 up 2
FF 20 up 4
Others 18 up 4
Labour 11 down 4

Government Satisfaction: Satisfied 26%; Dissatisfied 69%; Don't Know 5%.

Poll by Behaviour and Attitudes 3.3% margin of error.

Gonna be a lot worse come March Mr Kenny.

Am Chile

drkpower wrote: »

If the government introduce the amendment to the Fines Act, any mass boycott will be pointless.

The realisation that people were willing to go to jail in opposition to this regressive tax led the government to attempt to change tactics.

CAHWT members discussed the possibility of this strategy being used by the establishment as long as eighteen months ago and how it could be counteracted. For every tactic the government adopts, the CAHWT has a range of ways of dealing with them.

The implementation of this tactic will still lead to a major problem for the government trying to impose it through the courts and that does not take into account other measures of opposition that the CAHWT will launch.

Biggins

Master of Nothing wrote: »

It was on the radio earlier, that they are considering bringing in measures to try have it stopped automatically from a bank account/dole payments. Dirty money grabbing cnutbags, would rather line their/their cronies pockets than leave the people who need it alone.

That was obvious from day one that they mentioned the introduction of this latest tax.
One way or another, the government will get you - at least most of ye.

silverharp

let them know youve put a gypse curse on the cheque, whoever touches the cheque will barren yade yada, it will never be cashed

psychward

Pay it using interpretative dance

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

The realisation that people were willing to go to jail in opposition to this regressive tax led the government to attempt to change tactics.

CAHWT members discussed the possibility of this strategy being used by the establishment as long as eighteen months ago and how it could be counteracted. For every tactic the government adopts, the CAHWT has a range of ways of dealing with them.

The implementation of this tactic will still lead to a major problem for the government trying to impose it through the courts and that does not take into account other measures of opposition that the CAHWT will launch.

What is their tactic for this:

Selling House : A vendor of a residential property must pay any household charge, late payment fee and late payment interest due on the property and give a certificate of discharge, exemption or waiver in respect of each liability date during the vendor’s ownership to a purchaser on or before the sale or transfer can be completed.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/household-charge-property-tax-more-details.html

sunshiner

id go to court wearing a tinfoil hat and say its not a house judge its an arc!:D then id say its a refuge for the aliens and spout some 2012 nonsense then id do a little dance and say it was a protection dance from the right wing nazi's in government and there propaganda :D:D id be too bonkers to pay

zimmermania

The tax is unfair,two married pensioners live next door to two married unemployed people,income is the same,pensioners have to pay.It must be reversed and if a large segment of the population do not register and contact their tds it will be reversed.

mickydoomsux

zimmermania wrote: »

The tax is unfair,two married pensioners live next door to two married unemployed people,income is the same,pensioners have to pay.

That has more to do with how broken our welfare system is than it does with any new tax.

K-9

I thought no exemption was made for welfare recipients, only Mortgage Supplement beneficiaries.

Tayla

Gareth2011 wrote: »

It doesnt matter what the government do. people are never happy. They could say here is 150 euro for each household but we need 125 back so we can pay this or that. You would all still complain about it even though your 25 quid up.

Ah here, that's bull****, at this stage all we want is fairness and what's happening at the moment isn't fair. Did you watch the budget, they cut pretty much everything, the list went on and on and it only totalled up to €1.4 billion after all that, then in January they're going to give €1.2 billion to unsecured bondholders. This government is outrageous.

Gareth2011

Tayla wrote: »

Ah here, that's bull****, at this stage all we want is fairness and what's happening at the moment isn't fair. Did you watch the budget, they cut pretty much everything, the list went on and on and it only totalled up to €1.4 billion after all that, then in January they're going to give €1.2 billion to unsecured bondholders. This government is outrageous.

Yes they did cut pretty much everything but sure didnt they give back too? They didnt raise income tax, didnt cut weekly social payment, made it easier for boom time house buyers. Didnt cut grants for people going back to education (undergraduate). Also Joan Burton didnt put forward her adjust of x amount (cant remember how much it was) but she left out a fair bit. So the budget could have been alot worse from a Social point of view if she had ofcut what she was meant too.

Tayla

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Yes they did cut pretty much everything but sure didnt they give back too? They didnt raise income tax, didnt cut weekly social payment, made it easier for boom time house buyers. Didnt cut grants for people going back to education (undergraduate). Also Joan Burton didnt put forward her adjust of x amount (cant remember how much it was) but she left out a fair bit. So the budget could have been alot worse from a Social point of view if she had ofcut what she was meant too.

And we're supposed to be grateful for that are we? You do realise that the government are supposed to work for us don't you and not unsecured bondholders?

Where's the logic in paying them? Even Fine Gael have no answer for that, I've heard several FG TD's asked why we're paying them, none of them can give a logical answer, they just say that we have to.

Most people don't get too annoyed about stuff like bank bailouts and bondholders, they don't take in all the big issues but they get annoyed about the small things such as €100 property tax and the fact that the story came out about Enda giving the the advisor a payrise the day before the budget, it's all these little **** you's from the government that are causing people to say we won't pay. What I don't understand is why people are trying to convince other people that it's pointless not paying, maybe it's pointless to you but to a lot of others it's important.

dxhound2005

Tayla wrote: »

And we're supposed to be grateful for that are we? You do realise that the government are supposed to work for us don't you and not unsecured bondholders?

Where's the logic in paying them? Even Fine Gael have no answer for that, I've heard several FG TD's asked why we're paying them, none of them can give a logical answer, they just say that we have to.

Most people don't get too annoyed about stuff like bank bailouts and bondholders, they don't take in all the big issues but they get annoyed about the small things such as €100 property tax and the fact that the story came out about Enda giving the the advisor a payrise the day before the payrise, it's all these little **** you's from the government that are causing people to say we won't pay. What I don't understand is why people are trying to convince other people that it's pointless not paying, maybe it's pointless to you but to a lot of others it's important.

It's pointless because all they will doing be is building up fines, interest and arrears which will all have to be paid in the end. Either out of their wages or when the property is sold or when they die and the property is transferred.

It's not like not paying your TV licence which you can get away with and the only consequence is that others have to pay your share.

PaulKK

Tayla wrote: »

And we're supposed to be grateful for that are we? You do realise that the government are supposed to work for us don't you and not unsecured bondholders?

Where's the logic in paying them? Even Fine Gael have no answer for that, I've heard several FG TD's asked why we're paying them, none of them can give a logical answer, they just say that we have to.

Do people not realise that we have to get this money from somewhere? Last time the working were hit, this time the benefit receivers.

The whole point of paying back the bondholders, while obviously a bitter pill for everyone to accept, is that in the long term, it is more beneficial to pay them back than to burn them. If we burn them we would never be able to borrow cheaply again and that would be a disaster.

You have to laugh with all this government dissatisfaction, I don't know what people expect! We are in the crap and things need to be cut.

Don't particularly agree with the property tax either, partially because I don't think you should have to pay for owning your own home and partially because in 10 years time you could easily be lobbing out a grand a year instead of 100.

Tayla

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's pointless because all they will doing be is building up fines, interest and arrears which will all have to be paid in the end. Either out of their wages or when the property is sold or when they die and the property is transferred.

It's not like not paying your TV licence which you can get away with and the only consequence is that others have to pay your share.

It's pointless to you, not others.

It's going to take quite a while to build up fines and interest.

Even if they do take it from peoples social welfare they'll probably have to take it €2 a week.

At least wait until there are real consequences facing people before trying to talk them out of it. Why anyone wants to make the governments job easier is beyond me!

busyliving

Jaysus, there are a lot of thanks floating around this thread

Tayla

PaulKK wrote: »

Do people not realise that we have to get this money from somewhere? Last time the working were hit, this time the benefit receivers.

Do you not realise that no we don't have to get any money whatsoever for unsecured bondholders? There is no obligation to do that.

PaulKK wrote: »

The whole point of paying back the bondholders, while obviously a bitter pill for everyone to accept, is that in the long term, it is more beneficial to pay them back than to burn them. If we burn them we would never be able to borrow cheaply again and that would be a disaster.

These are unsecured bondholders, are we supposed to keep every single bondholder sweet in case we might want to borrow from them again? Even the secured bondholders wouldn't have expected the government to take on the debt. They lent to the likes of Anglo, they understood the risks, they didn't lend to Ireland the country.

Markets are fickle, they will forgive and forget, they want to make money after all.

dxhound2005

Tayla wrote: »

It's pointless to you, not others.

It's going to take quite a while to build up fines and interest.

Even if they do take it from peoples social welfare they'll probably have to take it €2 a week.

At least wait until there are real consequences facing people before trying to talk them out of it. Why anyone wants to make the governments job easier is beyond me!

Depends on what you mean by quite a while. Unless we can elect another 80 or so Rich Boy Barrets this is going ahead and the consequences of not paying will be very real.

Late payment penalties will apply as follows :

Payments made within 3 and 6 months of January 2012 – a 10% penalty.
Payments made between 6 and 12 months late – a 20% penalty.
Payments more than 12 months late – a 30% penalty plus 1% interest per month

So – if someone is 12 months late paying the €100 household charge – they will owe €130 plus another €12 interest – a total of €142.


If charges remain unpaid a charge will remain attached to the property

HovaBaby

How to avoid the property tax? Move to the Principality of Sealand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

ilovesleep

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Depends on what you mean by quite a while. Unless we can elect another 80 or so Rich Boy Barrets this is going ahead and the consequences of not paying will be very real.

Late payment penalties will apply as follows :

Payments made within 3 and 6 months of January 2012 – a 10% penalty.
Payments made between 6 and 12 months late – a 20% penalty.
Payments more than 12 months late – a 30% penalty plus 1% interest per month

So – if someone is 12 months late paying the €100 household charge – they will owe €130 plus another €12 interest – a total of €142.


If charges remain unpaid a charge will remain attached to the property

The fcukers are reading boards.ie, I swear. One of boards.ie posters wrote to hold off a couple of months to see where it leads and then they come up with this grand plan.

Dear Enda Kenny, FG and labour,

Can you tell me please why we have to tighten our belts leading to austerity while you loosen yours for an increase in expenses and go over and beyond the set out pay caps for your advisor and that of pigface Burton?

Chucky the tree

Tayla wrote: »

Do you not realise that no we don't have to get any money whatsoever for unsecured bondholders? There is no obligation to do that.


These are unsecured bondholders, are we supposed to keep every single bondholder sweet in case we might want to borrow from them again? Even the secured bondholders wouldn't have expected the government to take on the debt. They lent to the likes of Anglo, they understood the risks, they didn't lend to Ireland the country.

Markets are fickle, they will forgive and forget, they want to make money after all.

How do we fix our €16m budget deficit?

ilovesleep

I feel so sorry for all who bought a house for a home within the past couple of years to realise now that the past decade was a farce. Now lumped with a celtic tiger mortgage for a house that was more than likely way over value but couldn't see it at the time, unfortunately, while now their incomes decline and now the banks own their asses. To also pay thousands of a stamp duty tax to be now lumped with this new tax. :-(

I hope you all find peace

I think people would be better off protesting in a different manner, perhaps by getting the Fcuking Gangsters - the new FF, clearly, out of power.

Or maybe even at least demanding for accountibilty for what went on here in this country. Three and half years later and 10 months into the new government there hasn't been any sort of an enquiry into the banking failure or the guarantee. The ex financial regulator was negligent in his duties. Do we not have negligance laws here in our country? Why aren't they being used?
Bertie Ahern is still very much deluded as to what part he played in the collaspe of our economy. Someone needs to issue him with some harsh words and a wake up call.

7Sins

psychward wrote: »

Start a charity with the mission of taking care of number 1 , sell your house to it and rent it back for 1 Euro per year while charging this charity punitive interest on the unpaid house price as your charity will be broke and can only be in debt to you thereby meaning you never lose out if the capital value of the house increases down the line. Being too mean to spend the Euro rent on good works , your charity can then employ you using its 1 Euro income as CEO . You will be in line with most charity quangos which spend most of their income on beardesque expenses. Neither the charity or yourself will be liable for property tax and you will get to put your new job onto your CV which is useful in a time of high unemployment. Start lobbying like fu(k and join a political party, get government funding for your charity and raise your salary while using any additional charity income to pay off the mortgage quickly and also the severely compounded back interest. which it will owe you. Move to Portugal or Malta where all income is tax free. As a member of some government quango you can ask your new mate Bono at dinner parties for tax avoidance advice. After you retire on a generous pension, send in the debt collectors and let whoever you pass management of the charity onto worry about it as they realise they have been handed a poisoned chalice but dont worry someone else will bail them out.

Eh?...You're a genius, what other stuff do you know?

charlemont

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You do realise that 33%+ of our governments spending is on Social Welfare payments and that figure is slowly creeping upward with our aging population profile and unemployment? There is a slightly smaller percentage spent on health, justice, etc.

I wonder why ?? Years and years of chronic mismanagement.

[/QUOTE]The banks/IMF will be paid off in a few years. The SW and public spending will never end. That's why your taxes are going up and will probably never go down again.[/QUOTE]

Well the more they take from people the more welfare will be needed, People in low income jobs will need welfare especially help with rent.

Tayla

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How do we fix our €16m budget deficit?

Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here,

Does paying off unsecured bondholders fix the budget deficit?
Does it get us back in the markets sooner?
Does paying debts we can't afford and crippling our countries growth in the process make the markets want to deal with us?


Our credit rating is at junk status because of this. We were cut off from the markets because of the bank debt.

If we seperated our bank debt from our real sovereign debt then we would be much more credit worthy, someone would lend to us while we closed the deficit.

Our government would have us believe that we can't back out now because we'd be blacklisted, it's not the same as defaulting on your 'real' soverign debt'. If you default on that then yes people might be wary but defaulting on debt brought upon your country by the actions of a couple of men is not going to leave us left stranded like the government want us to think!

Chucky the tree

Tayla wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here,

Does paying off unsecured bondholders fix the budget deficit?
Does it get us back in the markets sooner?
Does paying debts we can't afford and crippling our countries growth in the process make the markets want to deal with us?


Our credit rating is at junk status because of this. We were cut off from the markets because of the bank debt.

No, the property tax does though.

Tayla

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No, the property tax does though.

Do you know what would help to close our deficit? Not paying €1.2 billion to unsecured bondholders in January.

Chucky the tree

Tayla wrote: »

Do you know what would close our deficit? Not paying €1.2 billion to unsecured bondholders in January.

And what about the other €13.8bn?

Tayla

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And what about the other €13.8bn?

You're the one who said that the property tax will fix it and that's only €160 million and that's only if everyone pays which they won't!

Chucky the tree

Tayla wrote: »

You're the one who said that the property tax will fix it and that's only €160 million and that's only if everyone pays which they won't!

It won't fix it but it's a step in the right direction and a necessary step. Sure the people who don't pay it will be paying €2,500 so the more that don't pay it the better.

Tayla

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It won't fix it but it's a step in the right direction and a necessary step. Sure the people who don't pay it will be paying €2,500 so the more that don't pay it the better.

So that's a step in the right direction and so is paying unsecured bondholders yea?

Even though it makes no sense whatsoever to pay them.

Chucky the tree

Tayla wrote: »

So that's a step in the right direction and so is paying unsecured bondholders yea?

Even though it makes no sense whatsoever to pay them.

I never said anything about bondholders. They are pointless to this discussion. Not sure why people keep banging on about them as if we didn't pay them then no cuts or tax increases would be needed.

Tayla

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure why people keep banging on about them as if we didn't pay them then no cuts or tax increases would be needed.

You're not sure why people keep banging on about them?

Oh come on ffs, are we agreed that most of the things that the government spend money on are essential yes?

Then we have unsecured bondholders, no obligation to pay them, no expectations to pay them, no guarantee guaranteeing them but yet they happily hand over huge amounts of money at the same time when we have hospital closures etc. in this country.

Does that not explain why people keep banging on about them?

Chucky the tree

Tayla wrote: »

You're not sure why people keep banging on about them?

Oh come on ffs, are we agreed that most of the things that the government spend money on are essential yes?

Then we have unsecured bondholders, no obligation to pay them, no expectations to pay them, no guarantee guaranteeing them but yet they happily hand over huge amounts of money at the same time when we have hospital closures etc. in this country.

Does that not explain why people keep banging on about them?

No not really. Not when they seem to ignore the other €13bn we need to fix in our deficit.

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is their tactic for this:

Selling House : A vendor of a residential property must pay any household charge, late payment fee and late payment interest due on the property and give a certificate of discharge, exemption or waiver in respect of each liability date during the vendor’s ownership to a purchaser on or before the sale or transfer can be completed.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/household-charge-property-tax-more-details.html

You re assuming the goverment are gonna win and beat the people on this issue,18 tds have come out and said they are gonna boycott it,now the threat of taking from peoples bank accounts/wages/social welfare, that very threat proves the goverment know public opinion is against the household charge,knowing the vast majority Intend to boycott, if the goverment think the CAHWT don,t have plans,tactics in places they are wrong,we will see in the new campaign to get the household charge abolished really take off.

LighterGuy

I reckon when it comes down to it, the majority of people are just going to pay it. They'll huff and moan about it being terrible (and it is terrible) saying how they won't be paying it etc. But they'll pay the 100.

Only chance this has of going away is if the mass majority of people refuse to pay. But lets all be honest, thats unlikey to happen. We all know what this country is like with unity.

psychward

7Sins wrote: »

Eh?...You're a genius, what other stuff do you know?

Well now that you mention it ... You use your ''charity'' as a mechanism to carefully build up an army of annoying chuggers all working on commission and desperate to pay the property tax which the landlord deviously added to their rent, which you yourself are cunningly avoiding and which has been massively increased to approach 60% of disposable income i.e 60% of almost nothing when other stealth taxes are deducted . Holding the most hated and lowest position in society the self esteem of your chuggers will be negatively affected by all the abuse and derision they rightfully receive; even their own families will shun them when they discover their lowly status as chuggers and they will become increasingly dependent upon you for morale boosting speeches. You strike while the iron is hot and make the wearing of a blue shirt as your standard chugger uniform.

Something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxoKjwudruw

They will now be putty in your hands and refer to you variously as Dear Leader or ''The Great One''
Being already hated and isolated from mainstream society your chugger army
will have no moral problems with arranging a serious of unfortunate ''accidents'' for all those who compete with you for power and influence as you will blame your enemies for their social isolation. Chuggers being normally obese and without personality will be provided with cocaine and steroids to provide muscle and the illusion that they are now loved by the people except for the disloyal ''impure'' few who must be eliminated and cleansed from society.
Soon the ''charity'' contribution will become compulsory among loyal citizens. Those who do not donate will have proven themselves disloyal and untrustworthy and will be blamed for the failure to ultimately abolish the hated vile property tax but not until the Irish people have worked towards a Utopia through a succession of 5 year plans. When the first 5 year plan fails ''the disloyal ones'' will be blamed for sabotaging it through not working hard enough or paying their property taxes on time and in full. The impure ones will be purged and a new 5 year plan will be necessary working at twice the previous level of austerity. The Germans will be very happy at your progress at repaying bondholders and we will be congratulated for being loyal citizens of the EU Empire. This is when you will make a decision. Either the EU rewards your loyalty by making you ''President for life'' which they will as your chuggers will have infiltrated the parliament by force and your ''democratic'' election will be openly and transparently recorded on live TV which you have also infiltrated or Ireland will return to isolationism whereby the local economy consists mainly of building huge statues of yourself in every conceivable place beginning with the very top of Croagh Patrick and in buying and selling these statues to each other in a similar way to the property boom.
Statue property shills will dominate the media and tell everyone that the statue boom is getting boomier but in this case we will be able to make our own statues and have control of our own statue currency. Eventually we become like Easter Island and all possible resources will have gone into statue building but by this time you have taken your mate Bonos advice and emigrated to a friendly tax free country enjoying the fruits of your Swiss bank account and those unguaranteed banking bonds you never expected anyone to pay.

Tayla

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No not really. Not when they seem to ignore the other €13bn we need to fix in our deficit.

Noones ignoring that at all but not paying unsecured bondholders doesn't suddenly equate to us having to close the deficit immediately like you're implying.

K-9

Tayla wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say here,

Does paying off unsecured bondholders fix the budget deficit?
Does it get us back in the markets sooner?
Does paying debts we can't afford and crippling our countries growth in the process make the markets want to deal with us?

No, the idiots in Government hope so and no.

Our credit rating is at junk status because of this. We were cut off from the markets because of the bank debt.

If we seperated our bank debt from our real sovereign debt then we would be much more credit worthy, someone would lend to us while we closed the deficit.

Not really. Bank debt is obviously an issue, no point denying it, but pretending if it went away we'd be a functioning economy and not in the IMF is denial. Our total Government debt isn't massive by European standards, the rate we are adding to it every year is and we can't blame banks for that anymore, its day to day spending. We actually had below the average in 09, probably about the average this year. Greece and Portugal didn't have bank bailouts and still had to get bailed out, big day to day deficits. There's some notion out there that everything would have been grand without the banks, its a notion.

As for lending to us, nope.
The problem is markets will focus on growth and austerity doesn't inspire confidence in them either, hence the problems in Italy. We've tiny growth and the last quarter results were negative, the markets would have run a mile, they all have attention deficit problems, they don't look at the long run. They'd see negative growth, a budget with a €5 Billion adjustment with big doubts if it can be met, and similar next year and more to come to 2015.

Our government would have us believe that we can't back out now because we'd be blacklisted, it's not the same as defaulting on your 'real' soverign debt'. If you default on that then yes people might be wary but defaulting on debt brought upon your country by the actions of a couple of men is not going to leave us left stranded like the government want us to think!

We could certainly back out on the unsecured bondholder payments, we can't really back out of the total bank debt. Joan Burton pointed out most of the payments left are actually to all intents and purposes due to the Irish Central Bank and its stupidity to pay them. This should have been pointed out at the bailout talks but people were too busy blaming others.

lazk

For God's sake, how long more will us Irish continue to accept our Government screwing us every chance they get. We continue to make arguments for and against this tax and every other unjust tax when there is really no argument to be made. We just do an Ostrich and bury our heads in the sand so that over time we get used to the new tax and it becomes a natural part of our financial lives. The problem with burying our heads in the sand is that our arse is still exposed and the Government can continue to screw us whenever the feel like it. Its time we straightened up our backbone and made a stand.

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

You re assuming the goverment are gonna win and beat the people on this issue,18 tds have come out and said they are gonna boycott it,now the threat of taking from peoples bank accounts/wages/social welfare, that very threat proves the goverment know public opinion is against the household charge,knowing the vast majority Intend to boycott, if the goverment think the CAHWT don,t have plans,tactics in places they are wrong,we will see in the new campaign to get the household charge abolished really take off.

I don't have to assume anything. The act is already in law and will take effect on 1 January 2012. Unless Joe Higgins can persuade another 70 TD's to abolish it no amount of political campaiging will change the fact that any charges outstanding remain attached to the property and will be collected eventually. CAHWT won't be able to help people selling a house or inheriting one cut through the inevitable legal nightmare will result from people not paying.

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It won't fix it but it's a step in the right direction and a necessary step. Sure the people who don't pay it will be paying €2,500 so the more that don't pay it the better.

Troll.

Tayla

K-9 wrote: »

Not really. Bank debt is obviously an issue, no point denying it, but pretending if it went away we'd be a functioning economy and not in the IMF is denial.

I'm not saying we wouldn't need to borrow money if we didn't have the bank debt, i'm saying that we would have to and people would be much more likely to lend to us than they are now.

K-9 wrote: »

Greece and Portugal didn't have bank bailouts and still had to get bailed out, big day to day deficits. There's some notion out there that everything would have been grand without the banks, its a notion.

Yes I know they did,Greece practically committed fraud to get into the euro, it wa so just because Greece and Portugal had to get bailed out even though they didn't bail out their banks means we would have too.

No they wouldn't have been grand, they would have been a lot more manageable though, we would have had more options.

K-9 wrote: »

As for lending to us, nope.
The problem is markets will focus on growth and austerity doesn't inspire confidence in them either, hence the problems in Italy. We've tiny growth and the last quarter results were negative, the markets would have run a mile, they all have attention deficit problems, they don't look at the long run. They'd see negative growth, a budget with a €5 Billion adjustment with big doubts if it can be met, and similar next year and more to come to 2015.

Then explain how most other countries in the world who are in a bad financial situation manage to get loans?

K-9 wrote: »

We could certainly back out on the unsecured bondholder payments, we can't really back out of the total bank debt. Joan Burton pointed out most of the payments left are actually to all intents and purposes due to the Irish Central Bank and its stupidity to pay them. This should have been pointed out at the bailout talks but people were too busy blaming others.

Yes but we won't back out on the unsecured bank debt, no reason to pay it at all but they still insist on paying it without even as much as a logical explanation.

I wouldn't believe a word Joan or any of them say, even if we can't not back up on the total bank debt, it's odious debt, it wasn't our debt to pay and the IMF and EU knew that when they lent to us.

nlgbbbblth

psychward wrote: »

Well now that you mention it ... You use your ''charity'' as a mechanism to carefully build up an army of annoying chuggers all working on commission and desperate to pay the property tax which the landlord deviously added to their rent, which you yourself are cunningly avoiding and which has been massively increased to approach 60% of disposable income i.e 60% of almost nothing when other stealth taxes are deducted . Holding the most hated and lowest position in society the self esteem of your chuggers will be negatively affected by all the abuse and derision they rightfully receive; even their own families will shun them when they discover their lowly status as chuggers and they will become increasingly dependent upon you for morale boosting speeches. You strike while the iron is hot and make the wearing of a blue shirt as your standard chugger uniform.

Something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxoKjwudruw

They will now be putty in your hands and refer to you variously as Dear Leader or ''The Great One''
Being already hated and isolated from mainstream society your chugger army
will have no moral problems with arranging a serious of unfortunate ''accidents'' for all those who compete with you for power and influence as you will blame your enemies for their social isolation. Chuggers being normally obese and without personality will be provided with cocaine and steroids to provide muscle and the illusion that they are now loved by the people except for the disloyal ''impure'' few who must be eliminated and cleansed from society.
Soon the ''charity'' contribution will become compulsory among loyal citizens. Those who do not donate will have proven themselves disloyal and untrustworthy and will be blamed for the failure to ultimately abolish the hated vile property tax but not until the Irish people have worked towards a Utopia through a succession of 5 year plans. When the first 5 year plan fails ''the disloyal ones'' will be blamed for sabotaging it through not working hard enough or paying their property taxes on time and in full. The impure ones will be purged and a new 5 year plan will be necessary working at twice the previous level of austerity. The Germans will be very happy at your progress at repaying bondholders and we will be congratulated for being loyal citizens of the EU Empire. This is when you will make a decision. Either the EU rewards your loyalty by making you ''President for life'' which they will as your chuggers will have infiltrated the parliament by force and your ''democratic'' election will be openly and transparently recorded on live TV which you have also infiltrated or Ireland will return to isolationism whereby the local economy consists mainly of building huge statues of yourself in every conceivable place beginning with the very top of Croagh Patrick and in buying and selling these statues to each other in a similar way to the property boom.
Statue property shills will dominate the media and tell everyone that the statue boom is getting boomier but in this case we will be able to make our own statues and have control of our own statue currency. Eventually we become like Easter Island and all possible resources will have gone into statue building but by this time you have taken your mate Bonos advice and emigrated to a friendly tax free country enjoying the fruits of your Swiss bank account and those unguaranteed banking bonds you never expected anyone to pay.

I'd gladly pay €100 per year towards a "beat up chuggers" tax.