Have you visited Northern Ireland and if so what is your opinion of the place?

Daniel S

KeithAFC wrote: »

He is driving into the heart of Ulster and is surprised to see Union flags? A bit odd.

It's not that simple. It's things like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wjs47QT2jFo/TGaKkYj-uGI/AAAAAAAAAFM/mO_smAIuOac/s1600/IMG_1021.JPG

It's like you (plural) are claiming territory. It's obviously intimidating.

fishy fishy

KeithAFC wrote: »

He is driving into the heart of Ulster and is surprised to see Union flags? A bit odd.

why is it odd. Ulster is one of the provinces of Ireland - you have Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht. If he was never there before why shouldn't he be surprised to see the jack flag flying. :D

Seachmall

KeithAFC wrote: »

He is driving into the heart of Ulster and is surprised to see Union flags? A bit odd.

It is a bit weird though. I've been to Derry a couple of times, it's a lovely spot but when walking on the Old City walls you can see estates that must have hundreds of Union Jacks.

It's like walking into hostile territory in a war zone.

44leto

A beautiful place I use to think Cork and Kerry where the nicest places in Ireland for scenery till I visited the Antrim Plateau its truly stunning. Being there a lot since.

KeithAFC

Daniel S wrote: »

It's not that simple. It's things like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wjs47QT2jFo/TGaKkYj-uGI/AAAAAAAAAFM/mO_smAIuOac/s1600/IMG_1021.JPG

It's like you (plural) are claiming territory. It's obviously intimidating.

What is the big deal? People putting flags up on their territory?

KeithAFC

Seachmall wrote: »

It is a bit weird though. I've been to Derry a couple of times, it's a lovely spot but when walking on the Old City walls you can see estates that must have hundreds of Union Jacks.

It's like walking into hostile territory in a war zone.

Londonderry doesn't just have one community though. A lot of British people live in the city.

--Kaiser--

Went up there for the first time last month for the MTV awards.
Belfast is a bit scary to be honest, drove down some dodgy roads; murals and graffiti all over the place. Got some strange stares as I was driving around in a ROI reg car. All the cops seem to have bullet-proof vests and guns and they drive around in the type of armoured cars you'd expect to see in Iraq. Even when I was stopped in a traffic check the policeman was brandishing an assault rifle

Could have been in my head but I felt unsafe most of the time I was there

Trevor Kent

Leftist wrote: »

Protestant work ethic for you.

It's immediatly noticable.

Must be difficult for northern protestants warming to the south, unless the services is ex-eastern bloc it's usually some genius who thinks alcoholism is a badge of honour and the GAA is actually important.

Hmm, Newry is mostly Catholic AFAIK, thats where I spend most my time up north. Id say more like a "Northern" work ethic.

Seachmall

KeithAFC wrote: »

Londonderry doesn't just have one community though. A lot of British people live in the city.

I know that, and I'm not criticizing them for flying their flag. It's just weird is all.

Not weird in a bad way either, just weird in that I wasn't expecting it.

Paxmanwithinfo

All flags should be banned. Tatty. Also, I find the Israeli and Palestinian ones amusing. Ban them all or only allow the rainbow one.

borderlinemeath

I know a lot of people from the North, my OH has family in Armagh, I have an aunt that lives in Belfast, we have good friends in Antrim and Dungannon and Cookstown so would be up there often enough.

There is a slightly different vibe to the place, but it's not British, nor Irish, very much just Northern Irish. I've never felt scared and I've visited a few places with unionist murals and flags but they don't bother me.

theteal

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Went up there for the first time last month for the MTV awards.
Belfast is a bit scary to be honest, drove down some dodgy roads; murals and graffiti all over the place. Got some strange stares as I was driving around in a ROI reg car. All the cops seem to have bullet-proof vests and guns and they drive around in the type of armoured cars you'd expect to see in Iraq. Even when I was stopped in a traffic check the policeman was brandishing an assault rifle

Could have been in my head but I felt unsafe most of the time I was there

i was exactly the same when i first went up but that's all it was, in my head. i lived with herself right here. the police station around the corner on the Lisburn road looked like a fortress and then you see the juggernaut police jeeps rolling up the road; it kinda makes you think if the area is ok on first arrival :eek:

it turned out to be immense though, great city!

HavingCrack

Rural Northern Ireland always felt much more Scottish to me more so than English. The north of Antrim remains me of Lothian or Lanarkshire etc. However Belfast is very similar to the industrial cities of the north of England-Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds etc. All came of age during the Industrial Revolution so not suprising it has a very different vibe.

desertcircus wrote: »

Apologies, must have the name of the town wrong. Was definitely in a unionist town in the area - the Union Jacks and UVF flags were a giveaway...

I'd say it could be Kilkeel you're thinking of, close enough to Warrenpoint.

KeithAFC wrote: »

You are surprised that the Union flag was flying? That would be like me going into the Republic and being surprised to see tri colours. Although that would rarely happen as I have only ever been once to the Republic.

Surprised you are surprised.

Ah here Keith would you ever stop with this sort of reply. With the exceptions of the United States and Northern Ireland (little bit in Canada as well I suppose) you never see flags flying in anywhere near the same numbers. Walk around Edinburgh, Leeds or Bristol and you won't see Union Jacks all over the place. Likewise in Dublin or Cork it's fairly rare to see houses with tri-colours flying. Same in Paris, Rome, Melbourne, Tokyo etc.

problemchimp

I spent a lot of time in East Belfast in the mid 80's. A bit dodgey for me with a Dublin accent but I don't think the locals thought I was a threat to the union.A couple of scary moments but I loved it all the same. I also spent a lot of time around South Armagh and loved every minute of it. I've seen pretty much all of the six counties and loved it and it's people. Belfast people in particular has a great sense of humour, very dry. The more I see of the place, the more I want it back.

tfitzgerald

I have being to Belfast on a few occasions and I have to say I loved the place everyone we met was very nice and very helpful . In saying that last year we were there just after the 12th and I found all the flags a bit intimidating .

KeithAFC

HavingCrack wrote: »

Rural Northern Ireland always felt much more Scottish to me more so than English. The north of Antrim remains me of Lothian or Lanarkshire etc. However Belfast is very similar to the industrial cities of the north of England-Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds etc. All came of age during the Industrial Revolution so not suprising it has a very different vibe.



I'd say it could be Kilkeel you're thinking of, close enough to Warrenpoint.



Ah here Keith would you ever stop with this sort of reply. With the exceptions of the United States and Northern Ireland (little bit in Canada as well I suppose) you never see flags flying in anywhere near the same numbers. Walk around Edinburgh, Leeds or Bristol and you won't see Union Jacks all over the place. Likewise in Dublin or Cork it's fairly rare to see houses with tri-colours flying. Same in Paris, Rome, Melbourne, Tokyo etc.

Some people are more patriotic than others.

Seachmall

KeithAFC wrote: »

Some people are more patriotic than others.

The most patriotic people in the world are all in war-zones.

Take from that what you will.

--Kaiser--

Seachmall wrote: »

The most patriotic people in the world are all in war-zones.

Take from that what you will.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

KeithAFC

Seachmall wrote: »

The most patriotic people in the world are all in war-zones.

Take from that what you will.

Not really. America has many patriotic people, especially Dixie. When you defend the flag and your country, you tend to be more patriotic.

HavingCrack

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not really. America has many patriotic people, especially Dixie. When you defend the flag and your country, you tend to be more patriotic.

Except when they don't want to be part of the US I imagine aka the American Civil War.

Il Trap

The north of Ireland is as Irish as the south in my opinion. I'm from north Louth and from my house I can see Slieve Gullion in Armagh. My family are from Armagh and Down. During visits there I've never had the impression that I was 'leaving' Ireland at any stage. The majority of people get on with their lives and fair enough they choose to identify with a particular culture but it is usually those with an agenda who try to vociferously 'de-Irish' or 'over-Irish' the place. Currency, flags, some infrastructural differences aside, its not a whole lot different from the south, day to day.

Also, the use of the phrase 'Northern Irish' pisses me no end. A person can't be Northern Irish - it is not a recognised nationality, nor is Northern Ireland a distinct country, nor is there such thing as a Northern Irish 'nation'. Such terms/notions are contrived bullsh!t used by those with a separatist agenda to fabricate a sense of depth and meaningfulness.

Seachmall

Il Trap wrote: »

nor is Northern Ireland a distinct country

Yes it is...?

Il Trap

Seachmall wrote: »

Yes it is...?

It is a statelet if anything...Britain is the country.

KeithAFC

Il Trap wrote: »

It is a statelet if anything...

Northern Ireland is a country. No matter what Republicans say. They had the chance to change that and failed.

cosmicfart

I wish we could detach the North from the rest of this banana republic and let it float all the way to scotland were all the other sectarian bigots inhabit and just be done with it altogether

Seachmall

Il Trap wrote: »

It is a statelet if anything...

Call it what you want, but it's still a country.

Il Trap

KeithAFC wrote: »

Northern Ireland is a country. No matter what Republicans say. They had the chance to change that and failed.

Can you elaborate??? What chance?

KeithAFC

Il Trap wrote: »

Can you elaborate??? What chance?

The 30 year conflict.

Il Trap

KeithAFC wrote: »

The 30 year conflict.

You call the IRA's (please note that all republicans are not supporters of the IRA and Sinn Féin, as if it should need stating) role in the perpetration of one of the bloodiest and darkest periods in Ireland's history 'a chance' to change the political fabric of the island.

That is probably one of the most crass and simplistic summations of the Troubles that I have ever heard. You're clearly either not clued in or are blinded by your own narrow agenda.

cosmicfart

Il Trap wrote: »

You call the IRA's (please note that all republicans are not supporters of the IRA and Sinn Féin, as if it should need stating) role in the perpetration of one of the bloodiest and darkest periods in Ireland's history as a 'chance' to change the political fabric of the island.

That is probably one of the most crass and simplistic summations of the Troubles that I have ever heard. You're clearly either not clued in or are blinded by your own narrow agenda.

what exactly are ur political persuasions then? Both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have done little to impress republicanism in the north all they do is mess up the south and give overtures to the British government in making the North a peaceful place for the mainly british population. In other words ur republicism is feeble at best.

desertcircus

cosmicfart wrote: »

Il Trap wrote: »

You call the IRA's (please note that all republicans are not supporters of the IRA and Sinn Féin, as if it should need stating) role in the perpetration of one of the bloodiest and darkest periods in Ireland's history as a 'chance' to change the political fabric of the island.

That is probably one of the most crass and simplistic summations of the Troubles that I have ever heard. You're clearly either not clued in or are blinded by your own narrow agenda.

what exactly are ur political persuasions then? Both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have done little to impress republicanism in the north all they do is mess up the south and give overtures to the British government in making the North a peaceful place for the mainly british population. In other words ur republicism is feeble at best.

The strength of a person's political beliefs should not be measured by their willingness to murder innocent people for them.

KeithAFC

Il Trap wrote: »

You call the IRA's (please note that all republicans are not supporters of the IRA and Sinn Féin, as if it should need stating) role in the perpetration of one of the bloodiest and darkest periods in Ireland's history 'a chance' to change the political fabric of the island.

That is probably one of the most crass and simplistic summations of the Troubles that I have ever heard. You're clearly either not clued in or are blinded by your own narrow agenda.

That is exactly what it was. A campaign to get a United Ireland. Thought it was pretty obvious.

Il Trap

cosmicfart wrote: »

what exactly are ur political persuasions then? Both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have done little to impress republicanism in the north all they do is mess up the south and give overtures to the British government in making the North a peaceful place for the mainly british population. In other words ur republicism is feeble at best.

In its current guise, yes, I'll agree with you that institutional republicanism is indeed in 'feeble' state, as you say, outside of Sinn Fein, or at least it is not as boisterous or as vociferous. If I was a northern voter then I would vote SDLP, however admittedly, they are not in the best of health these days.

It just annoys me that Sinn Féin, and the IRA in the past, have hijacked the concept of Irish republicanism/nationalism and that those with such (be they more moderate) persuasions are very often lumped in with 'the Shinners'.

44leto

My dad would never shop there, he use to say, "i am willing to pay for my freedom" yeah an armchair provo from that generation. But he has discovered Amazon UK, I say nothing.

Buceph

I've been to Belfast twice. Lovely place. And mostly nice people seeing as I met no-one like Keith. One nutter say Gerry Adams should be president of Ireland. How we laughed.

Il Trap

KeithAFC wrote: »

That is exactly what it was. A campaign to get a United Ireland. Thought it was pretty obvious.

Really, you don't even warrant response.

KeithAFC

Il Trap wrote: »

Really, you don't even warrant response.

That was the reality. Look at all past PIRA statements about the British presence and the determination to remove that presence. It is all in black and white.

cosmicfart

desertcircus wrote: »

The strength of a person's political beliefs should not be measured by their willingness to murder innocent people for them.

Yeah, well, in a War for Independence thats lasted since the foundation of this state, the inevitable consequences are that people die on both sides (read ur history). its a shame that no government that has been in power since the foundation of the Free State has had the balls to take on the British and reclaim the north, that why the marginalised people, both catholics in the north and political parties like sinn fein get labeled as 'murders' while they are infact the ONLY persons that have actually fought for a united Ireland. Ill wager my republicanism against any Fine failesr ofr gaelers any day, they have done fook all to unite Ireland and in turn have left most of the ordinary people down south with a 'I dont give a fook attitude about the north stance'

Seachmall

KeithAFC wrote: »

That was the reality. Look at all past PIRA statements about the British presence and the determination to remove that presence. It is all in black and white.

I think it was the blanket statement that the Republicans got their chance because the PIRA went on a campaign that raised eyebrows.

As stated the PIRA doesn't represent all Republicans. And that campaign wasn't a "chance", it was a brute-force attempt at forcing the Brit's hand. A vote is a chance, a terror campaign isn't.

KeithAFC

Seachmall wrote: »

I think it was the blanket statement that the Republicans got their chance because the PIRA went on a campaign that raised eyebrows.

As stated the PIRA doesn't represent all Republicans.

Like it has been said before, the PIRA could not have went on as long as it did without major support within the Republican community. Perhaps not all but a large amount certainly. Anyway, that is my final statement on the matter.

cosmicfart

Il Trap wrote: »

In its current guise, yes, I'll agree with you that institutional republicanism is indeed in 'feeble' state, as you say, outside of Sinn Fein, or at least it is not as boisterous or as vociferous. If I was a northern voter then I would vote SDLP, however admittedly, they are not in the best of health these days.

It just annoys me that Sinn Féin, and the IRA in the past, have hijacked the concept of Irish republicanism/nationalism and that those with such (be they more moderate) persuasions are very often lumped in with 'the Shinners'.

not in its current state, no Irish free state government has done anything to try and take back the north, thats why I applaud and support Sinn Fein and thats why they are infact the embodiment of republicanism as they do fight for a united Ireland, period.

Il Trap

KeithAFC wrote: »

That was the reality. Look at all past PIRA statements about the British presence and the determination to remove that presence. It is all in black and white.

It was an extremely complex situation with heinous atrocities commited by 'representatives' from nationalist and unionist communities. It ignited from civil rights marches by Catholics who were utterly and disgustingly discriminated against, with the dissent from that community being used by the IRA to galvanise their cause - helped in no small amount by the actions of the British army on Bloody Sunday.

Really Keith, you a history lesson. Given the fact that you are actually from the north, I find your ignorance, blinkeredness and narrow-mindedness galling.

Seachmall

KeithAFC wrote: »

Like it has been said before, the PIRA could not have went on as long as it did without major support within the Republican community. Perhaps not all but a large amount certainly.

It's impossible to know, either way a chance wasn't given. An attempt to gain a chance was made (the campaign) but no chance was given.

Do you think it should be taken to a vote?

KeithAFC

Il Trap wrote: »

It was an extremely complex situation with heinous atrocities commited by 'representatives' from nationalist and unionist communities. It ignited from civil rights marches by Catholics who were utterly and disgustingly discriminated against, with the dissent from that community being used by the IRA to galvanise their cause - helped in no small amount by the actions of the British army on Bloody Sunday.

Really Keith, you a history lesson. Given the fact that you are actually from the north, I find your ignorance, blinkeredness and narrow-mindedness galling.

No one mentioned the Civil rights movement and blamed them. I know the PIRA abused the Civil rights movement and have always thought that.

p.oconnor

I personally love the place, has changed alot in last 15 years. I remember going on a family holidays in the 90's, with the father driving with an Irish Reg we used get some quare looks alright, we once asked for directions in a petrol station the assistance looked at the reg and said clear off back home (we just left quietly not drawing attention).

Passed through Belfast for the first time a couple of months ago, initially got a very unionist feel to it but faired used, everyone was very helpful and we had no trouble at all. Just to show the change we were there buying a car and not one brow was lifted with our Irish reg, we collected it in a petrol station which was located across from a big orange hall.

Just shows the difference from visiting Omagh a week before the bomb in 1998.

Meow_Meow

I personally found NI incredibly boring. There's a real lack of nice restaurants and pubs in the city center. Maybe it's because during the Troubles the business couldn't have been great, but once you've done the bus tour I really can't see the appeal of it. Except the cheap shopping and fireworks, perhaps :P

Il Trap

KeithAFC wrote: »

No one mentioned the Civil rights movement and blamed them. I know the PIRA abused the Civil rights movement and have always thought that.

Exactly, supports my suggestion that you are in need of some reeducation on the topic. I never apportioned any blame to the Civil Rights campaign, if that's what you are suggesting.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

KeithAFC, you're good craic.

KeithAFC

Il Trap wrote: »

Exactly, supports my suggestion that you are in need of some reeducation on the topic. I never apportioned any blame to the Civil Rights campaign, if that's what you are suggesting.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

pragmatic1

LordSutch wrote: »

I find Belfast to be very like many other British Cities, personally I think there is an unquantifyable difference between Belfast and Dublin, a different vibe that I also pick up in many cities in Britain. Can't put my finger on it though!



Its the strong Anglo/Scots mix that does that.

I dont get that vibe. Maybe in the aesthetics of the city but not in the atmosphere. Maybe its because I'm from Donegal.