Entrapment? - either way it's ridiculous..

Ickle Magoo

El Weirdo wrote: »

Please don't patronise me.

Homosexuals were breaking the law pre-1993.

If you think it's ok that these men should be treated as criminals for breaking the law then it follows that you think that it was ok for homosexuals to be treated the same for breaking the law.

And that's a strawman - you can't attack the position I actually took regarding the issue I was actually referring to and all it's associated problems so you have to make up another one that you can insert in it's place where you feel you are on stronger ground and attack that instead...classic strawman.

Anyway, where I come from homosexuality was legal pre-1993.

Tigger

no entrapment in irish law
cops can offer sex, drugs or even to be hit men an if you agree then you are guilty.

makes sense to me but its true one way or the other.

El Weirdo

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And that's a strawman - you can't attack the position I actually took regarding the issue I was actually referring to and all it's associated problems so you have to make up another one that you can insert in it's place where you feel you are on stronger ground and attack that instead...classic strawman.

Anyway, where I come from homosexuality was legal pre-1993.

Well, I have no interest in attacking you. I just read your post and that part stuck out. I genuinely wanted to know your answer.:)

Ickle Magoo

El Weirdo wrote: »

Well, I have no interest in attacking you. I just read your post and that part stuck out. I genuinely wanted to know your answer.:)

Not attacking me, my point - I didn't think you were attacking me.

Well, the long and the short of it is: I would expect "law enforcers" to do just that - even regarding laws I don't agree with. Whether laws are still relevant is up to the judiciary to establish...and previously ropey laws against various minorities don't mean that laws in relation to anything else should automatically be ignored, abolished or have no justification...apples and oranges and all that.

Meow_Meow

Ahhh ban gardai... any opportunity to get glammed up

kraggy

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

You can say they are there by choice but nobody would prostitute themselves for the fun of it they do it because they dont have another choice. What source do you need? Common sense should tell you that. Any guy that goes with a prostitute and thinks that she is completely up for it is delusional.

Common sense?

Do you realise the money that some women make from prostitution? There are high class INDEPENDENT prostitutes making a fortune in major cities around the world.

A guy who goes with a prostitute need not think that she is up for the sex, but he can often rest assured that she is definitely up for the money.

You've been watching too many TV3/ITV/SKY "documentaries" me thinks.

Without doubt, trafficking goes on, and there are many women who are doing it against their will. However, there are many others who are not. By taking it off the streets and regulating it, monitoring the health of the women, regular interviews to ensure safety etc. it will mean the profession is a whole lot safer.

Whatever else, naming all those men achieves nothing. Absolutely nothing. Families lives will be ruined because of this. Just so the Gardai in Limerick can be seen to be doing something. Whereas, they could be seen to be doing a whole range of other, more important things if they wanted.

Ickle Magoo

kraggy wrote: »

...Families lives will be ruined because of this...

Is there no end to the victim-hood of those poor men...or, you know, perhaps that's something the men should have considered prior to making the decision to go soliciting for prostitutes?

kraggy

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Is there no end to the victim-hood of those poor men...or, you know, perhaps that's something the men should have considered prior to making the decision to go soliciting for prostitutes?

That's between them and their families.

Why should their kids suffer because they wanted to get their end away? Who knows what's going on at home?

Maybe it's a lonely man who's never had sex before because he's socially unskilled and now wants to try to do what others have been doing for years.

Some of the men are in their 60's. Maybe it's an old man who lost his wife some years back and he is crying out for some some intimacy.

What purpose do you think it serves naming and shaming them in the paper like that?

ottostreet

Mickjg wrote: »

One of the men arrested, Gary Stack from Ennis, is the former principal of Ennis National School. Very disgusting to find he has been involved in this.

Why? Is it odd that a grown man should desire sex with a grown woman? It's not like he's soliciting the students. Very Catholic Ireland response.

Ickle Magoo

kraggy wrote: »

...What purpose do you think it serves naming and shaming them in the paper like that?

Same reason every other defendant found guilty/plead guilty to a crime is named in the papers, I'd imagine...

Not sure why you think this lot should get special treatment and their blushes spared when lots of other families have to live with the guilt and shame of their relatives making stupid choices and then being named and shamed for it...

kraggy

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Same reason every other defendant found guilty/plead guilty to a crime is named in the papers, I'd imagine...

Not sure why you think this lot should get special treatment and their blushes spared when lots of other families have to live with the guilt and shame of their relatives making stupid choices and then being named and shamed for it...

Because very often 2 adults meet to have consenting sex for money. No harm done to anyone.

A drink driver, burglar, violent person can do harm to others.

It's not that complicated.

I've never been nor ever will be with a prostitute but for some people it's a necessary service. Some men are lonely, don't have confidence but still have the physical needs of others. That's why it should be taken off the streets and regulated.

Ickle Magoo

kraggy wrote: »

Because very often 2 adults meet to have consenting sex for money. No harm done to anyone.

And sometimes there is harm done - and often there is no way of knowing if harm is being done regulation or no - that's why it's not a lovely neat black and white, I'm right & you're wrong, issue/law/policy/whatever.

Mickjg

ottostreet wrote: »

Very Catholic Ireland response.

From an atheist.

The man was a teacher for many years teaching students right from wrong. Whatever people's opinions about prostitution, he knew he was engaging in an illegal act with someone who could have been smuggled into the country or could be in situation where she has a pimp controlling her. Nothing excuses his actions.

My opinion on prostitution is that it will never go away and that we need to do what is best for the women who will decide to enter prostitution. If legalisation is the best way to do this then I think we should legalise it, but if cracking down on the sale is sex is what is more likely to protect women then that is what must be done. The protection of women should be first and foremost, not tax and not policing cost.

For all this man could have known the woman he approached could have been smuggled into the country as a sex slave. She just so happened to be a under cover cop.

ottostreet

Mickjg wrote: »

From an atheist.

The man was a teacher for many years teaching students right from wrong. Whatever people's opinions about prostitution, he knew he was engaging in an illegal act with someone who could have been smuggled into the country or could be in situation where she has a pimp controlling her. Nothing excuses his actions.

My opinion on prostitution is that it will never go away and that we need to do what is best for the women who will decide to enter prostitution. If legalisation is the best way to do this then I think we should legalise it, but if cracking down on the sale is sex is what is more likely to protect women then that is what must be done. The protection of women should be first and foremost, not tax and not policing cost.

For all this man could have known the woman he approached could have been smuggled into the country as a sex slave. She just so happened to be a under cover cop.

Good man, not that many atheists out there in this country...good to see. I can see where you are coming from with your opinion, but I think you're placing too much stock in the conscience of the horny male. This man wanted sex, and he was clearly not going to get it for free somewhere, because he solicited what he thought a prostitute. By doing so, he has also shown that he is more than likely not a rapist, as he is seeking to buy, rather than take, the service that he requires.

Circumstances have arose to make this man think about hiring a prostitute..the morality of what they do for a living, or the channels through how they came about to be providing the service, are unlikely to be of concern to someone seeking their service. Maybe afterwards, after the 'urge' is taken care of, he may have stopped to consider the circumstances of the woman he hired, but shame and his position within the community are unlikely to have made him ever voice those concerns.

It all points towards regulation and legalisation of the business. There are no winners from this Garda operation. I'm normally on the side of the Gardai, but this just smacks of going after an easy target, rather than tackling the more serious criminals and problems that Limerick has.

corktina

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

6 out of the 21 names are Eastern European/Russiany. Interesting. Either they must be more used to paying for s&x, just thought they were far enough from home to get away with it, or are even less likely to be in regular relationships that the Irish guys (for whatever reason).

Hmmmmmm.

names such as Khan Weavitoff are not necessarily Eastern European, just a mix up in the gards notes.

amacachi

Mindkiller wrote: »

So wait, when Bodie pleaded entrapment in season 3 of The Wire and got off, was it really entrapment?

Was it not contrapment?

Mickjg

ottostreet wrote: »

Good man, not that many atheists out there in this country...good to see.

Glad to see this pleases you.

I can see where you are coming from with your opinion, but I think you're placing too much stock in the conscience of the horny male. This man wanted sex, and he was clearly not going to get it for free somewhere, because he solicited what he thought a prostitute. By doing so, he has also shown that he is more than likely not a rapist, as he is seeking to buy, rather than take, the service that he requires.

You seem to be saying that just because a man is horny it's okay for him to go out there just find sex. Just because he didn't go and rape someone doesn't make him a good man.
This is not the same as, say, wanting a burger and going out and buying a burger instead of stealing one.

Circumstances have arose to make this man think about hiring a prostitute..the morality of what they do for a living, or the channels through how they came about to be providing the service, are unlikely to be of concern to someone seeking their service. Maybe afterwards, after the 'urge' is taken care of, he may have stopped to consider the circumstances of the woman he hired, but shame and his position within the community are unlikely to have made him ever voice those concerns.

The fact that he (according to you) didn't take into consideration the circumstances these women may be in just makes him look like a man who doesn't care about others. If he did take into consideration the women's circumstances then that just shows that he knows that these women are in a bad way but he's gonna use them anyway.

It all points towards regulation and legalisation of the business. There are no winners from this Garda operation. I'm normally on the side of the Gardai, but this just smacks of going after an easy target, rather than tackling the more serious criminals and problems that Limerick has.

Limerick has many problems, prostitution is one of them. It's a problem anywhere it exists.

You can't defend men's horniness when we are all aware that many of these women come from less than desirable backgrounds. Some of them may have been smuggled into the country for sex, others may be under the control of a pimp. But who cares? Just so long as a brutha can get some, right?

ottostreet

Mickjg wrote: »

Glad to see this pleases you.



You seem to be saying that just because a man is horny it's okay for him to go out there just find sex. Just because he didn't go and rape someone doesn't make him a good man.
This is not the same as, say, wanting a burger and going out and buying a burger instead of stealing one.



The fact that he (according to you) didn't take into consideration the circumstances these women may be in just makes him look like a man who doesn't care about others. If he did take into consideration the women's circumstances then that just shows that he knows that these women are in a bad way but he's gonna use them anyway.



Limerick has many problems, prostitution is one of them. It's a problem anywhere it exists.

You can't defend men's horniness when we are all aware that many of these women come from less than desirable backgrounds. Some of them may have been smuggled into the country for sex, others may be under the control of a pimp. But who cares? Just so long as a brutha can get some, right?

Well, unless the prostitute he has hired tells him of her circumstances, how is he to know whether she has been trafficked or doing what she does because to her, its a decent way of making some easy money? Prostitution is not something that is going away, and just because a man deals with kids during his day job, does not make him a bad man for wanting a prostitute for some physical intimacy. By the way, this is the only point that I was really disagreeing with, I realise there is a general 'right' and 'wrong' consensus to the moralities of prostitution on this thread, I'm only saying that the fact he was a primary school headmaster doesn't make what he did any worse than any of the other men, and I don't think he deserves to be singled out.

Seachmall

ottostreet wrote: »

I'm only saying that the fact he was a primary school headmaster doesn't make what he did any worse than any of the other men, and I don't think he deserves to be singled out.

This is absolutely correct and I know this for a fact because I know the man, he was my primary school teacher and I know him personally from elsewhere too. I went through some tough **** in Primary School with bullying and if it wasn't for him it would have been hell. He was there when I needed help and gave me a boot up the arse when I stepped out of line.

You can criticize him for the prostitute, and for the fact he is married, all ye want but if you think it in any way reflects his credibility when dealing with kids ye are ridiculously off the mark. From that respect he is highly respected by his students, and their parents, without a doubt. Or at least he was before this ****storm.

EKClarke

MarkR wrote: »

Not entrapment if the gardai merely provided a favourable opportunity for the guys to get caught.

Loved the way they listed out the names of the streets that prostitutes can be found on! *Throws notebook behind couch*

That's not a good thing. Police in England listed the name of a street where child prostitutes could be found for as little as £1. People flocked to to the place.

syklops

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

6 out of the 21 names are Eastern European/Russiany. Interesting. Either they must be more used to paying for s&x, just thought they were far enough from home to get away with it, or are even less likely to be in regular relationships that the Irish guys (for whatever reason).

Hmmmmmm.

Or come from countries where its not illegal, and didn't know it was here.

MyKeyG

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

How do you know which is which tho? How can we tell that the prostitute being procured is drug free, pimp free, not trafficked or coerced in any way, shape or form? Given the issues they have even in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, I don't think you can.

Or if they're a Guard for that matter. Granted we don't know, which is why this case should have been dealt with on its own merits and not under the generalised assumption that all prostitution links directly to misery. I don't know all the perpetrators involved but I know for a fact one of them is no drug dealer nor does he commit heinous acts of violence.

That's lovely and all but I think it's more than a little naive/blinkered to waive the associations one has to the other in reality...

I'm not waiving any associations. I clearly stated, as you quoted, that they are associated just not always.

They broke the law, it may be a law you don't agree with but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated as criminals when they break the law.

I have no problem with that. Yes they broke the law and yes if we were all to be honest with ourselves we would agree that having been caught they were deserved of charge. However my beef is with how Garda resources are being used especially in a city torn apart by violence connected to issues more important than prostitution. Prostitution isn't putting guns in these peoples hands.

I don't disagree with the sentiments - I can't help but think 60 men in Limerick being arrested for solicitation is really not going to make a dent in the social and human issues related to prostitution...but then it IS better than sticking fingers in ears and convincing ourselves that men prowling the streets to find women they can pay to have sex with them is unrelated to a whole raft of issues and just good old adult fun...

Of course but if you're going to take your fingers out of your ears and do something then get to the route cause not spending Garda time on picking up Joe Bloggs looking for some 'love you long time GI'.

Listen morally as well as legally you're right. I just have a bee in my bonnet about the crimes the Guards do use to add to their arrest statistics while the animals get away.

scholar007

oirishguy wrote: »

I live in a country where prostitution is legal, right across from my bedroom window there is a brothel. If people want to pay for sex and priovided that it is not human trafficking, is underage or involves animals then so what. They are consenting adults. It is a profession that has been around before laws were even written and will remain no matter what they do. Naming and shaming these guys was ridiculous, it has only caused harm to their families, innocent people in this, for what, so the Gardai can look like they have taken their heads out of their arses and done something for a change. Why not focus the taxpayers money on something like tackling a criminal organization, arresting drug dealers etc instead of making examples of people, who apart from this indiscretion, are normal members in society.

Because from reading the earlier part of the thread - it aoppears that it was tolerated to a certain degree and money was being made but then more and more "ladies of the night" wanted a piece of the action and it spread and became in your face and then it got publicity and as we know when something gets publicity the garda sicholonis have to act - Plain and simple!

I would image it wasn't just a case that the Super in Limerick woke up one morning and said, I have some good looking ban gardaí on my hands - how can I best utilise their talents?

Jalla

I hear people are trying to boycot The Sun Newspaper because a former principal tried to get his dick wet?

Seachmall

Jalla wrote: »

I hear people are trying to boycot The Sun Newspaper because a former principal tried to get his dick wet?

What's this about then? Link?

Jalla

Seachmall wrote: »

What's this about then? Link?

Apparently people have set up some Facebook pages to boycot The Sun, there should be links online.

Seachmall

Jalla wrote: »

Apparently people have set up some Facebook pages to boycot The Sun, there should be links online.

Can't find anything on it. Is it related to the prostitution thing?

Jalla

Seachmall wrote: »

Can't find anything on it. Is it related to the prostitution thing?

Yes, in response to our former principal being attacked through their paper. I doubt it will have much effect.

tfitzgerald

I think this is a joke . The guards should be spending their time doing better things than catching a 67 year old man trying to have a bit of fun. If they think they are going to stop this sort of thing by embarrassing a few men and their families a few weeks before Christmas then the are deluded

scholar007

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think this is a joke . The guards should be spending their time doing better things than catching a 67 year old man trying to have a bit of fun. If they think they are going to stop this sort of thing by embarrassing a few men and their families a few weeks before Christmas then the are deluded

Do you not think this is a good use of Garda resources? Arresting and shaming the evil men who wanted to get their leg over with ladies who are only too keen to consent and relieve (sorry) them of their cash.

This must be the most spectacular bust in the history of Limerick. I expect the ban gardaí involved will each receive a gold scott medal and be fast tracked for promotion for their bravery in donning skimpy attire on a cold wet winter evening by the Shannon. My God they could have caught a very serious cold!

Forget gangland and gun crime and drugs and robbery and tiger kidnapping and white collar crime and fraud and the recession -the most serious threat to our democracy and way of life is consenting adults engaging in a financial transaction for the provision of a service. :rolleyes:

Ormus

I think it still hasn't sunk in for some people on here that these men weren't arrested for soliciting prostitutes. They were arrested for because of where they solicited them, ie: on the street.

Anyone debating the rights and wrongs of prostitution is kinda missing the point.

Jalla

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I think this is a joke . The guards should be spending their time doing better things than catching a 67 year old man trying to have a bit of fun. If they think they are going to stop this sort of thing by embarrassing a few men and their families a few weeks before Christmas then the are deluded

I think its the funniest thing i have ever heard.

Seachmall

scholar007 wrote: »

tiger kidnapping

????????

tfitzgerald

Jalla wrote: »

I think its the funniest thing i have ever heard.

Gives a whole new meaning to a ban Garda asking if she can take down you particulars :)

MyKeyG

Seachmall wrote: »

Can't find anything on it. Is it related to the prostitution thing?

Yeah been having a bit of a debate there too. It's basically liked by Ennis Facebook users since one of the men is the former principle of the local national school.

The main beef is that he's the only person out of the 21 charged that got his picture on the front of The Sun. Make of that what you will.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/People-of-Ennis-to-Boycott-the-Sun-Newspaper/148261038610907

Seachmall

MyKeyG wrote: »

Yeah been having a bit of a debate there too. It's basically liked by Ennis Facebook users since one of the men is the former principle of the local national school.

The main beef is that he's the only person out of the 21 charged that got his picture on the front of The Sun. Make of that what you will.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/People-of-Ennis-to-Boycott-the-Sun-Newspaper/148261038610907

Thanks.

He was my prinicpal in primary, a good man. Cocked up though, fucking idiot.

Giselle

That Primary school principle wasn't thinking with his big head.

What a monumental error of judgement on his behalf if he thought his rep wouldn't be ruined by trying to pick up a sex worker on the street.

MyKeyG

Giselle wrote: »

What a monumental error of judgement on his behalf if he thought his rep wouldn't be ruined by trying to pick up a sex worker on the street.

His rep wasn't ruined by trying to pick up a sex worker. His rep was ruined because he got caught:D

44leto

I want to set the record straight: I thought the cop was a prostitute.

MyKeyG

44leto wrote: »

I want to set the record straight: I thought the cop was a prostitute.

Well they are closing 40 Garda stations nationwide. Something has to bring in the 'bacon'.

Mary Earnest

I expect there'll be a longer term negative impact on the lives of the Ban Gardai concerned than those of Mr. "Principal."

44leto

Mary Earnest wrote: »

I expect there'll be a longer term negative impact on the lives of the Ban Gardai concerned than those of Mr. "Principal."

Yeah especially the ones that attracted NO punters, that will have a negative impact on their self esteem.

YFlyer

They should have spotted the Gardai head a mile off.

opinion guy

Is there such a thing as entrapment in Ireland anyhow ? I always thought it was just a US thing

YFlyer

Triangla wrote: »

Proper order, soliciting prostitutes is such a scumbag thing to do.

For anyone pro prostitution, would you approve it as a career choice for your mother, sister, wife, girlfriend, daughter even granny (a la Rooney)?

Well not with that loser.

MyKeyG

Originally Posted by Triangla
Proper order, soliciting prostitutes is such a scumbag thing to do.

For anyone pro prostitution, would you approve it as a career choice for your mother, sister, wife, girlfriend, daughter even granny (a la Rooney)?

My Mother prostituted herself to my dad for a diamond ring:D

Feck it things are so bad I'm thinking about going on the game myself. Either that or become a guard. Mmmmm!!!

Seachmall

MyKeyG wrote: »

Feck it things are so bad I'm thinking about going on the game myself. Either that or become a guard. Mmmmm!!!

The question is do you want to reek of Bacon or Fish when you come home from a long day of fucking people over...?

MyKeyG

Seachmall wrote: »

The question is do you want to reek of Bacon or Fish when you come home from a long day of fucking people over...?

Lynx Africa and mouthwash actually.

parker kent

I was reading this earlier and thought of this thread. An interesting read. I definitely agree that these debates concentrate on the extreme ends of the debate. Obviously this concentrates on the USA, but it is interesting in light of this thread.

From child sex slaves to affluent call girls, debates over prostitution tend to rely on sensationalistic extremes. But Ronald Weitzer’s “Legalizing Prostitution: From Illicit Vice to Lawful Business” turns instead to the sober jargon of lawyers and policy nerds.

OK, so it isn’t the sexiest case ever made for the legalization of prostitution, but it is one of the more intelligent, measured and comprehensive looks at alternatives to criminalizing the trade. Instead of the usual polarizing rhetoric about how sex work is inherently empowering or debasing, the George Washington University sociology professor takes the more practical approach of investigating how to best reduce harm within the industry, specifically within the U.S. His research takes him everywhere from Las Vegas to Frankfurt in search of the best and most realistic policy aims. Ultimately, he recommends a two-track approach stateside, where street prostitution, which he dubs a “social problem,” is treated dramatically differently from indoor prostitution involving consenting adults.

Despite American society becoming increasingly sexualized, we’ve become less and less tolerant of the sex trade. Regardless, though, Weitzer says the time to discuss the possibility of decriminalizing prostitution is now. After all, we’ve seen “the gradual if incomplete normalization of some other kinds of vice or deviance over the past 40 years,” he writes, citing the examples of gambling, gay rights, marijuana and the proliferation of pornography. Whether you agree with his conclusion or not, his book is a trustworthy guide to recent research on the global sex trade.

Weitzer spoke to Salon by phone about the harm done by criminalization, the benefits of indoor sex work and how trafficking is eclipsing debate over consensual adult prostitution.

Why is it so important to draw a distinction between street prostitution and indoor sex work?

Street prostitution differs from indoor sex work in some substantial ways — both in the way it manifests itself and in the kinds of people who tend to end up in street prostitution. Street prostitution has higher rates of addictive drug use and a higher percentage of workers are runaways, underage and have a pimp. Indoor sex work isn’t always preferable to street work, and there are some places in the world where people work indoors at high risk and are heavily exploited or experience violence, but in general, we find that indoor prostitution is potentially better for sex workers.

There’s also an impact on the surrounding community of street-level work insofar as the negotiations take place on the street. Residents often try to pressure local authorities to crack down on street prostitution – they’re annoyed at sex acts being performed in public, workers getting in fights with potential clients or pimps, ordinary people in the neighborhood being hit on by clients or propositioned by the sex workers themselves. There’s a litany of grievances.

You hit on this earlier: You argue in the book that street prostitution is a social problem. What does that mean in terms of how we address the problem?

It’s very complex and requires more resources than are currently being devoted to street prostitution throughout the U.S. and many other countries. It’s not just a criminal justice problem where arresting people, maybe incarcerating them for a short period of time or fining them, is going to resolve the problem. It’s a social problem because many of the people who work on the street are disadvantaged to begin with. They come from broken homes or are runaways, and are engaged in survival sex — they’re basically a much more desperate population than what we find indoors.

Very few resources are provided to help people get off the street — basically it’s this revolving door of criminal justice and law enforcement. Few cities provide many, if any, resources to help street prostitutes leave the trade.

If you were given the power to unilaterally redesign the U.S. approach to prostitution, what would you change?

My view is to differentiate street prostitution and indoor prostitution. I talk about the two-track policy in the book as one option in the U.S. Street prostitution would remain a criminal offense because of the social problems associated with it, but there would be much more resources put into trying to rehabilitate people working on the street. Track two would be de facto decriminalization: You stop enforcing the law against indoor workers, which means law enforcement doesn’t go out of its way to stage stings unless there’s some other evidence of a trafficking problem.

That’s what I would advocate for the current situation in the U.S. The book raises a number of ideas for how nations that are considering legalization might approach it, but the U.S. is not in that category right now. As a halfway measure, we could talk about this two-track policy. Some cities already do that, they just don’t broadcast it, but there are other cities that put a fair amount of resources into monitoring and busting people who work in the indoor trade.

We know that criminalization is not working very well, wherever it’s practiced. Basically, it forces people to operate in a clandestine manner in the illegal economy, much as with drug criminalization. It subjects the workers to greater risk, they do not feel comfortable contacting the authorities when they have been abused or exploited, and it increases the chances that pimps or other exploiters will get involved with them because the workers are already vulnerable and may feel that they need extra protection.

What do you make of the Village Voice boycott? Is the newspaper profiting from child sex traffickers as its critics claim?

That’s a good question and it’s very hard to answer. Whatever evidence there would be of that would be very anecdotal. To substantiate the claim, you would have to do a representative sample of ads on this website and then have data to prove that a certain percentage are underage or trafficked. It’s one of those claims that’s easily made, law enforcement and activists can cite anecdotal evidence, but to generalize that to the majority, or even a substantial minority, of people who advertise there would be very bad science and problematic.

One thing that advertising on such a site does offer law enforcement is the opportunity to monitor. That is what Craigslist argued, but unsuccessfully. It can be used as a vehicle for identifying people who appear to be underage or trafficked. Without those kinds of mechanisms for advertising, it becomes even more difficult for the authorities to identify and locate people who may have been abused. You could look at it as law enforcement shooting themselves in the foot by eliminating a source that might prove beneficial.

How could legalization affect trafficking?

There are these claims made by anti-prostitution activists that legalization will only make the situation worse for sex workers because it will open the door to more trafficking, or traffickers will be able to operate with less fear of arrest. I’ve never understood those arguments. We know from the drug debate, criminalizing something as a vice when there is demand and supply increases the chances of violence within that economic sector. It also increases the chances of coercion and exploitation. If it’s true that legalization increases trafficking, then you would expect to see some evidence of that and I have not.

How do we address the issue of abusive pimps? Even with legalization you still see a number of pimps.

It depends on the society. You’ve got a fair number of them operating in the window area of Amsterdam, but if you go to Antwerp they really cracked down on organized crime and pimping in general.

I think you can draw a parallel to marriage. We know that domestic violence happens between husbands and wives, but nobody’s arguing to criminalize marriage. There is violence in prostitution, just like there’s violence in marital relationships — the key is to focus on the violence, not the larger institution.

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/08/its_time_to_legalize_prostitution/singleton/

Grizzly 45

opinion guy wrote: »

Is there such a thing as entrapment in Ireland anyhow ? I always thought it was just a US thing

There isnt...Its not a recognised judical or legal concept under Irish law.
IOW they can do what they like to ensare you into a crime here.
BTW the old hoary idea of asking the bit of stuff on the kerb "Are you a ban Garda employed undercover or trying to perk up your wage packetposing as a prostitute for the purposes of entrapment into an illegal act?" Wont work..She can tell you whatever she wants to get you to entrap yourself.
Best thing is ..Avoid plainly dressd Irish street hookers.They are more than likely Ban Gardai.:D