GSM controling central heating ????

tapest

Hi Guys
Back again, fishing for info.
I have a HKC Securewatch with separate GSM unit. I want to remote control central heat system. It is a combi boiler with the usual built in programmer, that you need a telescope to see. So I installed a separate programmer. Simple enough, leave original "clock" permanently on and new programmer is wired (in series) simply by removing a cable loop and using these two contacts. Additional control devices, eg thermostat, can be wired in parallel to the same two contacts.
Now here the problem. Am I right, in order for HKC GSM to control (bridge) these two contacts you need to use a relay.
Question 1: What type of relay ??
Question 2: If on the GSM unit you use output 3...that's only one wire and you need two wires to make a circuit to control the relay. so the second wire to complete the circuit goes to where on the gsm unit. I don't want to risk bricking the unit.
In advance, Many thanks
t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Hi Guys
Back again, fishing for info.
I have a HKC Securewatch with separate GSM unit. I want to remote control central heat system. It is a combi boiler with the usual built in programmer, that you need a telescope to see. So I installed a separate programmer. Simple enough, leave original "clock" permanently on and new programmer is wired (in series) simply by removing a cable loop and using these two contacts. Additional control devices, eg thermostat, can be wired in parallel to the same two contacts.
Now here the problem. Am I right, in order for HKC GSM to control (bridge) these two contacts you need to use a relay.
Question 1: What type of relay ??
Question 2: If on the GSM unit you use output 3...that's only one wire and you need two wires to make a circuit to control the relay. so the second wire to complete the circuit goes to where on the gsm unit. I don't want to risk bricking the unit.
In advance, Many thanks
t

Hi tapest,

What you need is a 12v relay. All the GSM does is either give or take the 12v from the relay as you activate the relay. This in turn depending on what you need a ( nc, no ) circuit will turn on and off the heating. If it is mains that it is switching make sure the relays amp-age matches the device your switching.

tapest

Hi Altor
I understand that the Mains 240v power operating the boiler does not reach the GSM unit but passes through one side of the relay. The other side of the relay switches the relay on / off, but surely this low voltage trigger needs two wires to make the circuit. I have not put a volt meter on output 3 on the GSM to see if it is 12v+ or neg. So the question was where do I get the second connection on the GSM...an aux 12v+ if output 3 is neg...etc. I ask about relay type because i thought you may have wired something similar before, like garden gates etc.
I'm a great believer in asking experts to avoid taking even the slightest chance with the unit

again thanks
t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Hi Altor
I understand that the Mains 240v power operating the boiler does not reach the GSM unit but passes through one side of the relay. The other side of the relay switches the relay on / off, but surely this low voltage trigger needs two wires to make the circuit. I have not put a volt meter on output 3 on the GSM to see if it is 12v+ or neg. So the question was where do I get the second connection on the GSM...an aux 12v+ if output 3 is neg...etc. I ask about relay type because i thought you may have wired something similar before, like garden gates etc.
I'm a great believer in asking experts to avoid taking even the slightest chance with the unit

again thanks
t

All the relay is doing is switching the mains off and on, just like a light switch so you will be breaking the mains and putting it through the mains side of the relay. You will be getting a 12V relay that can switch what ever rating you need. The 12V side of the relay will be broken up as red to the positive 12V, black will be connected to the output. The GSM will need to be set up for home automation for this to work.

tapest

Altor

"The 12V side of the relay will be broken up as red to the positive 12V, black will be connected to the output"

That's the bit i needed


so the "output 3" is the negative and I can pick up a 12v + from somewhere on the gsm unit, like aux, or something similar (eg power for PIRs etc....That's brilliant


Many many thanks yet again
t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Altor

"The 12V side of the relay will be broken up as red to the positive 12V, black will be connected to the output"

That's the bit i needed


so the "output 3" is the negative and I can pick up a 12v + from somewhere on the gsm unit, like aux, or something similar (eg power for PIRs etc....That's brilliant


Many many thanks yet again
t

Thats correct, you can take it off the 12V positive supply for the GSM.

tkm1

tapest wrote: »

Hi Guys
Back again, fishing for info.
I have a HKC Securewatch with separate GSM unit. I want to remote control central heat system. It is a combi boiler with the usual built in programmer, that you need a telescope to see. So I installed a separate programmer. Simple enough, leave original "clock" permanently on and new programmer is wired (in series) simply by removing a cable loop and using these two contacts. Additional control devices, eg thermostat, can be wired in parallel to the same two contacts.
Now here the problem. Am I right, in order for HKC GSM to control (bridge) these two contacts you need to use a relay.
Question 1: What type of relay ??
Question 2: If on the GSM unit you use output 3...that's only one wire and you need two wires to make a circuit to control the relay. so the second wire to complete the circuit goes to where on the gsm unit. I don't want to risk bricking the unit.
In advance, Many thanks
t

Hi, Im new to boards and I was wondering did you get sorted with your problem? I would like to do something similar but keep my existing timeclock operating the boiler as normal with the added function of being able to dial in via the gsm to turn on the heaing in unforseen circumstances. I suppose this is done in parallel instead of series but how?? any help here would be appreciated.
Thanks.

davebuck

Your existing timeclock is just like a light switch,all your doing is taking the feed and switch feed from your timeclock into the 12 volt GSM relay and controlling it via texts...

tkm1

Thanks for the swift replay @davebuck. my timeclock is a 3 channel device upstairs/downstairs rads, and water. will this still be ok to take the feed and and switched feed from the timeclock to the gsm unit and both devices will work as required?
Thanks again.

leroypatches

Hi,
I am in the process of doing this now too. Any advice on where / what model relay to get in the Dublin area?
Many thanks,
Brian

KoolKid

What equipemnt are you using Brian?
Generally something like this will do

altor

briangarvin2 wrote: »

Hi,
I am in the process of doing this now too. Any advice on where / what model relay to get in the Dublin area?
Many thanks,
Brian

A 12V to 240V relay is what you need, just make sure you get one thats amp-age matches the device your switching

leroypatches

Thanks folks. Got one today in Phibsboro electrical. He had an 11pin 12v -240v relay that will work although I obviously wont need all 11 pins. Thanks a mil for the help

FMartinp

Heatslave.ie have a unit that does this. Sounds like it's very similar to what's being described by you guys.

tapest

Altor / Koolkid

Me again....

I have a 7 Amp electromechanical relay (should be plenty, as entire boiler is protected by a 5Amp fuse), but When I measured, the current the 12V coil was using (and then checked the mfg specs) it comes dangerously close to max output on gsm unit output 2, ie 100mA. And as it is heating the relay could be energised for prolonged periods. Perhaps an in-line fuse near gsm output for added protection ?. I believe the current used by a solid state relay is only 6mA or there abouts ??. but solid state relays can get hot...

t

Diggerdunne

heatslave look for €60 a year to host your page plus they offer a gold service of setting up a sim for €45 and then €9 a month paid in advance... Sounds very expensive for such a simple task...

altor

tapest wrote: »

Altor / Koolkid

Me again....

I have a 7 Amp electromechanical relay (should be plenty, as entire boiler is protected by a 5Amp fuse), but When I measured, the current the 12V coil was using (and then checked the mfg specs) it comes dangerously close to max output on gsm unit output 2, ie 100mA. And as it is heating the relay could be energised for prolonged periods. Perhaps an in-line fuse near gsm output for added protection ?. I believe the current used by a solid state relay is only 6mA or there abouts ??. but solid state relays can get hot...

t

Output 4 is rated 200ma max so if you feel there may be an issue then I would use the one. Simply change it to AUX and control it by text.

tapest

Thanks Altor

there's always a solution, or a "work-around"...and you guys always have it.

t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Thanks Altor

there's always a solution, or a "work-around"...and you guys always have it.

t

Your welcome t, hopefully that will sort any issues you where having.

tapest

Hi Altor...
I haven't tried it yet, but I think all the kinks are works out now.
Reason I've been taking it easy is a few days after your post I had another heart attack (not blaming your post, LOL). All I done is bench test relays. One thing I've noticed is that solid state relays worked great on test light bulbs etc ,but when attached to a boiler control circuit there was enough "bleed through" (about 50 volts) to hold in the boiler. In other words, when the trigger circuit was de-powered, it would switch off a 60w light bulb, but not a boiler control circuit. So it has to be electromechanical relays. gaining knowledge the whole time.
t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Hi Altor...
I haven't tried it yet, but I think all the kinks are works out now.
Reason I've been taking it easy is a few days after your post I had another heart attack (not blaming your post, LOL). All I done is bench test relays. One thing I've noticed is that solid state relays worked great on test light bulbs etc ,but when attached to a boiler control circuit there was enough "bleed through" (about 50 volts) to hold in the boiler. In other words, when the trigger circuit was de-powered, it would switch off a 60w light bulb, but not a boiler control circuit. So it has to be electromechanical relays. gaining knowledge the whole time.
t

Sorry to hear that t, hopefully you are on the mend

I leave that end up to the sparks that fits them. Good to see your bench testing before going at it for real and gaining valuable knowledge along the way

tapest

Altor
One thing I Haven't noticed anywhere is : what is the commands for controlling the boiler / lights etc....
is it "code [space] heat on" etc ?? a quick google showed up nothing and there was nothing with the GSM unit.
Responding to your last post...If I get much more experience at bench testing and asking questions, I'll be the best non-installer around...lol:D

altor

tapest wrote: »

Altor
One thing I Haven't noticed anywhere is : what is the commands for controlling the boiler / lights etc....
is it "code [space] heat on" etc ?? a quick google showed up nothing and there was nothing with the GSM unit.
Responding to your last post...If I get much more experience at bench testing and asking questions, I'll be the best non-installer around...lol:D

Here is a link to the HKC GSM MANUAL, always handy to have.

No harm is knowing what your doing before doing it t

tapest

Yeh ! I think "thanks" is the probably most common word used by tapest on Boards.ie..after "help" that is.

t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Yeh ! I think "thanks" is the probably most common word used by tapest on Boards.ie..after "help" that is.

t

Thats what we are here for t, any more question let us know

tapest

Altor

just out of curiosity...Can a HKC GSM unit be used "stand alone", ie not connected to an alarm panel as it has two inputs...I know a power supply would be needed.

just curious...

t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Altor

just out of curiosity...Can a HKC GSM unit be used "stand alone", ie not connected to an alarm panel as it has two inputs...I know a power supply would be needed.

just curious...

t

I think it can t, as once the gsm is set up and you have the SIM installed that will control the outputs. Dont quote me on that

tapest

Sorry
I was as clear as mud...I was wondering if you could use the two inputs, ie like hooking up a single pir or door contact for installation in say caravan....In other words, using the GSM a very small self contained alarm unit with text in/out control.

t

altor

tapest wrote: »

Sorry
I was as clear as mud...I was wondering if you could use the two inputs, ie like hooking up a single pir or door contact for installation in say caravan....In other words, using the GSM a very small self contained alarm unit with text in/out control.

t

No they dont work like that.
The GSM can not be used as a standalone either and needs to be in communication with the control panel to work.