Star Wars: The Old Republic General Discussion

Kirby

To be fair, No damage and threat metres is a design choice, not an oversight.

Having a metre tell you when to hit a button is not necessarily a good thing. I for one was not thrilled in the early WoW days that addons like these were allowed as it took any danger out of the encounter.

The UI needs improving to be sure. Inventory and character screens it seems cannot be moved...... although u can move the party portraits around if you want to make healing easier and you can just use F1, F2, F3 etc like any other mmo. You can also make the group portraits bigger or smaller or longer etc.

I would wager that there is no new WoW content because the team is working hard on the expansion pack. The only people who care about "Content patches" are the players already subscribed. New Expansions bring back former customers so thats where they will be aiming their resources.

Dcully

Hi Doc ,Seriously i do not experience anything of what you just mentioned.

As for your healers complaining, they are just spoiled with their mouse over addons in wow, i have no problems healing at all,how hard is it to click on who you want to heal then hit your hotkeys?
Im constantly getting invites from people ive grouped with previously so im healing fine on all 3 of my healing chars.
Real healers can heal with or without healing mods.

Personally i couldnt give a toss about dps meters etc, i played rift,AOC,Aion,lotro,war etc without them no problem and doing the same with swtor.

You mention junk abilities lol wtf?
I have 3 characters in the late 20s and 30s, i use every single ability on the 3 chars,they all have their uses.
You mention bugs, hand on heart i havent had any bugs at all.

Top of the list needs to be character responsiveness, its unforgiveable and like playing a game on a 56k modem at times. In high end PVP and cutting edge raiding this is inexcusable and needs to be fixed ASAP. If bioware dont recognise this issue and ignore it, the game will be abandoned before summer.

I really havent a clue what you talking about here, everything is instant for me.
Hate to say it doc but your posts about swtor stink of wow fanboyism i say that in the nicest possible way, im not trying to cause an argument.
I love wow as much as the next guy but jesus christ it was worse than swtor is now when it was a few weeks old.

Question, have you hit lvl 50 yet and experienced all the endgame?

Granted i havent, im in no rush to either, but it will determine whether ill sub longterm or not.

Kirby

People playing casters, like me and you Dcully, aren't experiencing this. We just queue up our actions. Apparently its a problem for people playing melee.

I don't play melee though so haven't seen it at all.

Dcully

Kirby wrote: »

People playing casters, like me and you Dcully, aren't experiencing this. We just queue up our actions. Apparently its a problem for people playing melee.

I don't play melee though so haven't seen it at all.

With my operative healer i play some rogue like gameplay with backstabbing like abilities and seriously i experience no issues at all, granted its only a small bit of melee but as of yet ive not experienced delays at all.

Kirby

For anyone struggling with delayed actions or unrespnsive abilities....there is an option in the setting to implement a one second "queue up" time. I enabled it on my first day before I even fought a single mob as it seemed like a good idea.

Basically, if you are casting a channeled spell, halfway through it you can press your next action and when the spell is done your button press will happen. If more people changed from 0.5 seconds to 1.0 seconds in the options, I doubt we would see many complaints.

Dermighty

I have a level 37 powertech bounty hunter and I am enjoying it. I have tried all three talent trees and each one has it's own attractiveness and playstyle.

The flashpoints are interesting and I enjoy doing the ones involving boarding ships etc, seems realistic.

My biggest problem with the game is that there isn't much interaction with other people (I am in a large guild on the 2nd biggest EU server). Every time I group there's no chat just get the mission done and people leave, same for flashpoints. I think level 50 will bring more balance, because I'll be able to do more with my guild as people wont be at different stages of the game. The part of the game with the most inclusiveness so far is the pvp. I can go in there at level 10 with my lvl 50 guildmates and have a good session, As much as people want the pvp to be unscaled I think that at the moment it is the only real communal activity in the whole game.

The game has huge potential and I'm looking forward to seeing it get better

TheDoc

It is definitly not coming from any fanboism.

Damage meters are second nature to me from WoW. As much as Swtor is lacking things I'm used to that might be considered a "luxury" they are also pretty important and a good tool for reference.

I've no idea what damage I'm doing on my jedi guardian, but being able to know what classes do high dps, which ones do burst, sustained etc etc etc gives me more information as a tank, who to guardian shield, who I need to watch for pulling aggro.

I'm sure it will come in due course, just figured its an easy UI option to have from the get go.

And Dcully I'm not saying there is alot of trash buttons, what I'm saying is your thrown about 8-10 abilities your expected to use within your rotation, its a bit much. While I enjoy that its not so much a rotation, more a prioirty and what is available, its a bit hectic and some of them feel unnecesary.

For example on a jedi guardian, (forgive me if i name the wrong abilities) slash is your focus filler and strike is your main dps focus dump ( again names might be incorrect). But you also have about 4-6 more abilities, with no indication of threat caused.

I'd well see the two mentioned above been morphed into the one at soe point, absolutely no need for the two.

Also its a bit of a rhetorical question asking have I hit endgame and cleared all content when you full well know the answer. But simply put, the issues I'm outlining arnt even REMOTELY related to endgame, but they would definitly be enahcned by it.

I'm not doubting that I'm finding a sense of loss without certain comfort addons from WoW, but some should be bread and butter, like a damage meter. I'm sorry its such a simple programme to develop and really should be in from the start.

And the delay in character responsiveness is actually massive, its being posted about everywhere so its definitly not me, and it will have a MASSIVE impact endgame when every split second counts.

I dont see it as a " you need to get used to it" its actually just poor, and surely needs to be fixed. There is about 15+ of us in the guild who mention it on a daily basis and we have messed with every part of the cast delay thing in preferences and nothing is making any difference.

It is most glaring in PVP when you try to string aiblities together and there is massive gaps.

Typically I'll force leap, aoe stun, force push a sorc and then stasis something, then go through my rotation. Force leap takes easily 2 seconds before the animation begins, then another 2 seconds for aoe stun.

Its not PC related, its not lag related ( im getting between 9- 22ms to the server) and its being so widespread talked about I'm more comfortable mentioning it knowing its not just me.

Dermighty

In my opinion and experience, dps and damage meters are a load of horse**** for 99% of players, just being a form of digital pissing contest.

Mouse over healing with only three people in your group (for flashpoints) is just not necessary.

Warcraft dumbed down so many aspects of the game so almost automaton style play that I hope they don't being that sort of toolbox to the game. Eve online never had modification and I'm glad SWTOR doesnt (yet) have them.

jeawan

Dcully wrote: »

Hi Doc ,Seriously i do not experience anything of what you just mentioned.

As for your healers complaining, they are just spoiled with their mouse over addons in wow, i have no problems healing at all,how hard is it to click on who you want to heal then hit your hotkeys?
Im constantly getting invites from people ive grouped with previously so im healing fine on all 3 of my healing chars.
Real healers can heal with or without healing mods.

Personally i couldnt give a toss about dps meters etc, i played rift,AOC,Aion,lotro,war etc without them no problem and doing the same with swtor.

You mention junk abilities lol wtf?
I have 3 characters in the late 20s and 30s, i use every single ability on the 3 chars,they all have their uses.
You mention bugs, hand on heart i havent had any bugs at all.



I really havent a clue what you talking about here, everything is instant for me.
Hate to say it doc but your posts about swtor stink of wow fanboyism i say that in the nicest possible way, im not trying to cause an argument.
I love wow as much as the next guy but jesus christ it was worse than swtor is now when it was a few weeks old.

Question, have you hit lvl 50 yet and experienced all the endgame?

Granted i havent, im in no rush to either, but it will determine whether ill sub longterm or not.

I tend to agreed with most said in this post . I have a guardian level 30 and a Combat medic level 37 i love the healing in this game VS wow it is proper hard but easily do able i have being complimented on my healing a few times now in game .I do not need addons and as for damage meters bugger that they ruined a game when they came out next people will ask for gear score bull**** again . I played a healer + tank for the entire life of WOW only left it 6 months ago played US beta and everything .

Tanking wise threat meter not really needed in vanillia wow we had none and didn't have any problems .healing wise again mouse overs would be nice but again not needed click and heal .Abilities i use every simple one of them depending on the fight i am doing and how hard it is .

Graphic Lag i have had none in PVP or PVE bugged quest again not since beta ,only problem i have is 2 of my skills are a bit bugged as they have cast times baring that the game is fine for me , i have never had one bit of lag in game to date .

Sorry one bugged quest on Na Shaddaa that about it i will be subbing as i really enjoy the game

I see allot of people complaining about the need for a LFG channel or icon but i have no problems getting groups anytime i don't see a need for it.

YouSavedMyLife

Dermighty wrote: »

In my opinion and experience, dps and damage meters are a load of horse**** for 99% of players, just being a form of digital pissing contest.

They are a good way to find out how in a raid is not pulling their weight. Specially if you keep dying on an enraged boss, i wouldnt mind otherwise. I would only use it for personal use to check my own DPS. When playing games i tend to want to be the best at what i do, DMG meters tell me im doing the best, so it keeps me happy But i would never link DMG meters in chat to gloat over a number one spot on the meters though

Lone Stone

TheDoc wrote: »

---

Yea i have these issues also on my sith jugg the skill delay just made me not even bother tanking, half the time im left sitting there watching as my skills play half the animation then loop and nothing happens, and i had the same as yourself in pvp.

Your just fecked if you play a melee class in this game and i dont see the issue being fixed any time soon if its been there all through beta.

Dustaz

Gotta say, i fully agree with Doc on this.

I quite enjoy levelling up in swtor, varying between being captain spacebar and listening to all the quests depending on mood and time available, and im quite enjoying the game, but and its a big but, it just isnt as good as wow.

Given that they clearly plundered a lot of design ideas and ethos' from wow, you CANNOT compare the game to vanilla wow, you must compare it to wow now. and wow now is a lot more polished and fun than swtor. Im just bored to the back teeth with it.

Kirby wrote: »

To be fair, No damage and threat metres is a design choice, not an oversight.

Its a RETARDED design choice.

Having a metre tell you when to hit a button is not necessarily a good thing. I for one was not thrilled in the early WoW days that addons like these were allowed as it took any danger out of the encounter.

Are you confusing dps meters with boss mods? I think you are young padawan.

Dcully wrote: »

Real healers can heal with or without healing mods.

And im sure real healers find SWTORs ui as bad as everyone else does.

Personally i couldnt give a toss about dps meters etc, i played rift,AOC,Aion,lotro,war etc without them no problem and doing the same with swtor.

So was your dps as terrible in rift, aoc, aion, lotro, war etc as it probably is in swtor?

There is absolutely no way to tell the difference between classes/specs without a decent combat log. I have NO Idea if my rotation is any good without recount/combat log and neither do you. If you want to do dailys for a couple of hours and log off, theres no need for a combat log, but if you want to raid, then its an absolute must.
.

I really havent a clue what you talking about here, everything is instant for me.
Hate to say it doc but your posts about swtor stink of wow fanboyism .

I think wow is a much better game than swtor, but im bored of wow so im playing swtor. Does this make me a wow fanboy? it would be wierd if it did because i havent played the damn game in 6 months or so.

Kirby wrote: »

People playing casters, like me and you Dcully, aren't experiencing this. We just queue up our actions. Apparently its a problem for people playing melee.

Im a caster and I experience it. I dont like the action queue because 1. omg how badly can they explain what that option does and 2. i like for something to happen when i press a button, not 1 second beforehand or afterwards. Try playing your caster with ability queue at 0 and see what happens. Its horrifically bad and thats a pretty major game flaw right there. My dps would be in the basement in a raid situation, but wait, theres no combat logs so yay, it doesnt matter!

Dermighty

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

They are a good way to find out how in a raid is not pulling their weight. Specially if you keep dying on an enraged boss, i wouldnt mind otherwise. I would only use it for personal use to check my own DPS. When playing games i tend to want to be the best at what i do, DMG meters tell me im doing the best, so it keeps me happy But i would never link DMG meters in chat to gloat over a number one spot on the meters though

I know why they are used.

I found that it usually entailed two kinds of people who read the dps meters:

1) I'm doing xx thousand dps, unreal!

2) this player has **** dps, L2P, kick that guy...

jeawan

TheDoc wrote: »

It is definitly not coming from any fanboism.

Damage meters are second nature to me from WoW. As much as Swtor is lacking things I'm used to that might be considered a "luxury" they are also pretty important and a good tool for reference.

I've no idea what damage I'm doing on my jedi guardian, but being able to know what classes do high dps, which ones do burst, sustained etc etc etc gives me more information as a tank, who to guardian shield, who I need to watch for pulling aggro.

I'm sure it will come in due course, just figured its an easy UI option to have from the get go.

And Dcully I'm not saying there is alot of trash buttons, what I'm saying is your thrown about 8-10 abilities your expected to use within your rotation, its a bit much. While I enjoy that its not so much a rotation, more a prioirty and what is available, its a bit hectic and some of them feel unnecesary.

For example on a jedi guardian, (forgive me if i name the wrong abilities) slash is your focus filler and strike is your main dps focus dump ( again names might be incorrect). But you also have about 4-6 more abilities, with no indication of threat caused.

I'd well see the two mentioned above been morphed into the one at soe point, absolutely no need for the two.

Also its a bit of a rhetorical question asking have I hit endgame and cleared all content when you full well know the answer. But simply put, the issues I'm outlining arnt even REMOTELY related to endgame, but they would definitly be enahcned by it.

I'm not doubting that I'm finding a sense of loss without certain comfort addons from WoW, but some should be bread and butter, like a damage meter. I'm sorry its such a simple programme to develop and really should be in from the start.

And the delay in character responsiveness is actually massive, its being posted about everywhere so its definitly not me, and it will have a MASSIVE impact endgame when every split second counts.

I dont see it as a " you need to get used to it" its actually just poor, and surely needs to be fixed. There is about 15+ of us in the guild who mention it on a daily basis and we have messed with every part of the cast delay thing in preferences and nothing is making any difference.

It is most glaring in PVP when you try to string aiblities together and there is massive gaps.

Typically I'll force leap, aoe stun, force push a sorc and then stasis something, then go through my rotation. Force leap takes easily 2 seconds before the animation begins, then another 2 seconds for aoe stun.

Its not PC related, its not lag related ( im getting between 9- 22ms to the server) and its being so widespread talked about I'm more comfortable mentioning it knowing its not just me.

Ahh Fair enough i understand about the character response and again i have to abilities i have noticed it on the most one is Charged shot can not remember the other .

Guardian is very similar to warrior in wow riposte is a very high threat move and you will use it more then strike for gaining rage in game but again it has a longer cooldown 15sec then strike . i didn't seem to be having a long rotation on my guardian though and i am destroying mob on him . PVP wise i have not done a massive amount on him much more on the combat medic .

There are a few things in t he game i think need improving but i am happy to play it and see what happens too many people play a game for two weeks spout off it is not a wow killer and go back to being bored in wow again.

I do think Bioware need to listen to a few comment on there forums regarding a few issues eps on character response etc

Nody

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

They are a good way to find out how in a raid is not pulling their weight. Specially if you keep dying on an enraged boss, i wouldnt mind otherwise. I would only use it for personal use to check my own DPS. When playing games i tend to want to be the best at what i do, DMG meters tell me im doing the best, so it keeps me happy But i would never link DMG meters in chat to gloat over a number one spot on the meters though

This is how things got so much easier as game went along

Back in EQ 99% of all bosses would go into a auto riposte stance for 10s when hitting 10% (every attack meant a direct counter attack by the boss on you) in a 90 degree arc from the front. Now for the tank this was fine, he could turn the mob and stop attacking for 10 seconds and all DPS swinged away.

How ever if you wanted to have some fun you could use an ability as cleric (Blessed Divine Aura or someting like that) to make someone immune to all attacks AND put lowest on the priority list for attacks. So come your normal OMGZ hard hitting boss enraging you'd put BDA on your main tank, have the boss flip and see which DPSers were doing their job by stopping to attack long enough not to die to ripostes (yes I had plenty of fun playing a Cleric in EQ, I believed strongly in educating my groups as well...).

jeawan

Dermighty wrote: »

I know why they are used.

I found that it usually entailed two kinds of people who read the dps meters:

1) I'm doing xx thousand dps, unreal!

2) this player has **** dps, L2P, kick that guy...

Agreed but then you look at gear score from wow that just became a griefing thing you have crap gear score therefore you are **** etc and can not play the game. Yet any person can get good gear and still be useless at his/her role.

Dustaz

Dermighty wrote: »

I know why they are used.

I found that it usually entailed two kinds of people who read the dps meters:

1) I'm doing xx thousand dps, unreal!

2) this player has **** dps, L2P, kick that guy...

Whats the problem with this? example 1 fosters a spirit of competition which results in faster/more boss kills and option 2 lets you rid your guild of the rogues who do less dps than tanks.

If you mean spam in lfg/lfr groups then who cares? Maybe if you paid more attention to recount, you'd be in a guild and not depending on the cesspit of lfg?

Dcully

So was your dps as terrible in rift, aoc, aion, lotro, war etc as it probably is in swtor?

There is absolutely no way to tell the difference between classes/specs without a decent combat log. I have NO Idea if my rotation is any good without recount/combat log and neither do you. If you want to do dailys for a couple of hours and log off, theres no need for a combat log, but if you want to raid, then its an absolute must.

95% of the time play healer so yeah my dps sucked in them all

Ive raided in aoc and rift successfully without the need for anything so they are not an absolute must at all.

Having said that the choice of dpe meters/healing addons etc would be nice but nowhere near a game breaker imo.
Im used to other MMO`s not just wow so myself and the guys ive played other mmos with are used to it.

As for the action delays, ive yet to experience this at all.
Im not saying it isnt there but ive not experienced it.
There is obviously some form of issue since you guys say so many are complaining about it.

jeawan

Dustaz wrote: »

Whats the problem with this? example 1 fosters a spirit of competition which results in faster/more boss kills and option 2 lets you rid your guild of the rogues who do less dps than tanks.

If you mean spam in lfg/lfr groups then who cares? Maybe if you paid more attention to recount, you'd be in a guild and not depending on the cesspit of lfg?

I have yet to see the Cesspit of LFG on my server most people i have grouped with have being really friendly and not Leet little kids , i play a mmo to group with others and enjoy the game i have a very strong guild for this reason but since the game launch i have meet allot of really nice people from LFG to the point i have allot of new friends in game .

Dustaz

Dcully wrote: »

95% of the time play healer so yeah my dps sucked in them all

Ive raided in aoc and rift successfully without the need for anything so they are not an absolute must at all.

Having said that the choice of dpe meters/healing addons etc would be nice but nowhere near a game breaker imo.
Im used to other MMO`s not just wow so myself and the guys ive played other mmos with are used to it.

As for the action delays, ive yet to experience this at all.
Im not saying it isnt there but ive not experienced it.
There is obviously some form of issue since you guys say so many are complaining about it.

You've really got to seperate "a combat log" and dps meters from healing addons and boss mods. Im 100% with you on healing addons, i find them unnessecary and a crutch more than anything. We've all downed bosses without boss mods in wow and other games. But a working combat log and the resulting addons from that is while not 100% required to kill a boss, is the biggest help to any guild or raid of any addon out there.

Its like saying "i dont understand why everyone wants this automobile thing they have in the UK, My donkey gets me where i want to go, no problems. People just use their automobile to show off".

nesf

Dermighty wrote: »

Mouse over healing with only three people in your group (for flashpoints) is just not necessary.

In Flashpoints sure, it's not necessary. In PvP I do miss it though. It's much more time sensitive for healing than PvE in this game (and most MMOs I've played a healer in). But then, if healers on both sides have the same limitation is it as big a deal? Probably not, and probably something I just need to get used to (i.e. more pre-emptive shields and heals).

Dustaz

jeawan wrote: »

I have yet to see the Cesspit of LFG on my server most people i have grouped with have being really friendly and not Leet little kids , i play a mmo to group with others and enjoy the game i have a very strong guild for this reason but since the game launch i have meet allot of really nice people from LFG to the point i have allot of new friends in game .

I think from the context of my post it was pretty clear i was referring to WoW and you appear to be referring to swtor.

Anyone

Jesus....all this EQ talk is taking me back. I remember a friend of mine had a high lvl enchanter. And we used to use the account when short of funds, could sell the buff KEI for donations and make some nice gold!

Also the death penalties in it were mad, I remember I walked into the Plane of Hate on day, got summoned half way across the zone and killed rather quickly, asked my guild for help, was only a few on, and they died also...so we got another guild to help with the CR, all in all, was about 20 of us...and I never went back to the Plane of Hate again!


As for Star Wars, personally I hope they never allow mods in, in my opinion WoW was destroyed by them, Gear Score being the main one, and dont get me started on meters....I played a healer there.

I'm still enjoying SWTOR though, lvl 27 now, in the middle of Tatooine and had my first Jawa killing experience. I was dissapointed they didnt say "ootini" when they died!

Kirby

Dustaz wrote: »

Are you confusing dps meters with boss mods? I think you are young padawan.

I'm confusing nothing.

Threat metre tells me I'm close to the tank......stop pushing buttons!
Threat metre tells me I have low threat.....push buttons!

Ergo a metre is playing for you. As I said, this is brainless. It's a foreign concept I know, but maybe people could pay attention to what they are doing instead of relying on a mod to do it for them?

jeawan

Dustaz wrote: »

I think from the context of my post it was pretty clear i was referring to WoW and you appear to be referring to swtor.

ahh agreed completely on LFG In wow never used or liked it guild groups all the time

Dustaz

Kirby wrote: »

I'm confusing nothing.

Threat metre tells me I'm close to the tank......stop pushing buttons!
Threat metre tells me I have low threat.....push buttons!

Ergo a metre is playing for you. As I said, this is brainless. It's a foreign concept I know, but maybe people could pay attention to what they are doing instead of relying on a mod to do it for them?

Could you pay attention to what you are doing for long enough to stop talking about threat meters and start talking about combatlog/dps meters?

Thanks.

Kirby

TheDoc wrote: »

No threat meters.
No threat highlight on party/raid frames. /

Kirby wrote: »

threat metres is a design choice, not an oversight..

TheDoc wrote: »

But you also have about 4-6 more abilities, with no indication of threat caused. .

jeawan wrote: »

Tanking wise threat meter not really needed in vanillia wow we had none and didn't have any problems ..

Everyone in here is talking about threat metres and their inclusion/exclusion. Dustaz, If you contributed a little to the discussion instead of getting snarky with anyone who disagreed with you you would wouldn't embarrass yourself as much.

Anyone

The more i think of EQ and its death penalties, the more I think that they made you a better player. I mean you learned from your mistakes. Since WoW, dieing has had no consequence to the player apart from you lost a small amount of time.

nesf

TheDoc wrote: »

I think it also shows how much Blizzard feel threatened in that they didnt even launch new content or anything to combat the SWTOR launch : /

Um, Blizzard almost never do. They launch new content a few months after when the shine has worn off the new MMO and people are starting to ask themselves if they want to pay for two subs a month.

From what I remember anyway.

Lone Stone

Anyone wrote: »

The more i think of EQ and its death penalties, the more I think that they made you a better player. I mean you learned from your mistakes. Since WoW, dieing has had no consequence to the player apart from you lost a small amount of time.

i dont agree really, i think your just good or bad at something.

When i played eq2 when it first came out if you were in a group and one of those people died you also got the death penalty that was just infuriating :mad: It would even happen if the person was like in another part of the world and in your group. I remember once everyone in my party died on the way to meet up to do a dungeon and i got a huge penalty which took days to clear.