EBS building soc workers want annual Xmas bonus

gigino

"The EBS will offer staff loans to compensate them for non-payment of a traditional Christmas payment worth a month's salary."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1207/ebs-business.html

Given that salaries in the EBS have been reduced - one poor man who works there only gets € 380,000 per year now,http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1117/ebs.html
I am sure they are all feeling the squeeze.

The State is injecting €2.4 billion into EBS. Should'nt we inject a few extra bob in and give them a bonus - say round that poor lads salary up to 400k a year ? Think of the good work they done during the boom, helping people get on the property ladder and sometimes loaning people over ten times their salary.

Celly Smunt

gigino wrote: »

"The EBS will offer staff loans to compensate them for non-payment of a traditional Christmas payment worth a month's salary."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1207/ebs-business.html

Given that salaries in the EBS have been reduced - one poor man who works there only gets € 380,000 per year now,http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1117/ebs.html
I am sure they are all feeling the squeeze.

The State is injecting €2.4 billion into EBS. Should'nt we inject a few extra bob in and give them a bonus - say round that poor lads salary up to 400k a year ? Think of the good work they done during the boom, sometimes loaning people over ten times their salary so they could get on the property ladder.

I had an argument,but i don't really care anymore.

MagicSean

Trolling the world again gigino?

The only people who aren't receiving the bonus are the lowest paid workers. Management are all getting it still.

AnonoBoy

Sure we have to have electricity like, y'know?

melekalikimaka

gigino, i hope you get no bonus this year

Morag

EBs the building soc not the ESB.


The bottom tier of staff 1 week before payday and 2 weeks before christmas got told they were not getting the bonus but all the managers are. They have gotten it every past year going back 11 years and to have it landed on them at such short notice when most of them were going to pay for christmas out of it is sniveling, mean and underhanded.

bleg

None of them should get bonuses. If management have gotten bonuses it should come out of their pay packet for next year.

gigino

melekalikimaka wrote: »

gigino, i hope you get no bonus this year

I never got a Christmas bonus equivalent to one months salary. In fact very few people in the country ever had the taxpayer giving them a months bonus at Christmas time.

But I do feel sorry for the likes of poor Mr. Fitzpatrick of Anglo Irish bank , Fingers of Irish Nationwide building society ( with his 20 million pension pot ) and the poor EBS building society workers. As I say, think of the poor family and kids. If someone who has helped fuel the property boom here during the tiger era has his salary reduced to only € 380,000 a year , a months bonus should be paid. The government could find the money from disabled kids allowances or someone.

TheZohanS

Whilst I can empathise with the workers I certainly don't have any sympathy for them.

ejmaztec

There will be thousands of people rioting outside the ESB headquarters, screaming "bastards!" and heaving bricks through the windows.

starbelgrade

Sharrow wrote: »

The bottom tier of staff 1 week before payday and 2 weeks before christmas got told they were not getting the bonus but all the managers are. They have gotten it every past year going back 11 years and to have it landed on them at such short notice when most of them were going to pay for christmas out of it is sniveling, mean and underhanded.

The EBS were taken over by AIB earlier this year & the government are 99% owners of the AIB. Under the bailout terms, bonuses are not allowed, so that's why they're not getting an extra month's payment.

And nor should they - no-one in the banks that we've bailed out should be getting bonuses - from the lowest paid to management... it may seem tough coming up to Christmas, but for them to expect us to fund an additional month's salary out of our tax coffers is just absurd.

And their response to this is? The threat of an all out strike.

I don't see them getting a whole lot of sympathy on that front.

Freddie59

gigino wrote: »

"The EBS will offer staff loans to compensate them for non-payment of a traditional Christmas payment worth a month's salary."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1207/ebs-business.html

Given that salaries in the EBS have been reduced - one poor man who works there only gets € 380,000 per year now,http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1117/ebs.html
I am sure they are all feeling the squeeze.

The State is injecting €2.4 billion into EBS. Should'nt we inject a few extra bob in and give them a bonus - say round that poor lads salary up to 400k a year ? Think of the good work they done during the boom, helping people get on the property ladder and sometimes loaning people over ten times their salary.

WTF??!! A month's salary????????:eek:

jester77

Sharrow wrote: »

EBs the building soc not the ESB.


The bottom tier of staff 1 week before payday and 2 weeks before christmas got told they were not getting the bonus but all the managers are. They have gotten it every past year going back 11 years and to have it landed on them at such short notice when most of them were going to pay for christmas out of it is sniveling, mean and underhanded.

I've been in plenty of jobs that have had 13 salary payments, and it always stated in the contract that the 13th payment is based on company performance and is not guaranteed. I've always received it and would have been pissed off if I didn't, but it clearly stated in the contract that it was not a given, so I would have no right to complain.

But it is total BS for these people that upper mgmt are getting it

jester77

Freddie59 wrote: »

WTF??!! A month's salary????????:eek:

This is not a bonus payment.

Your total salary is divided by 13 instead of 12. So every month you get a little less and then at the end of the year you get salary 12 + 13 in one payslip. Num 13 is not guaranteed and may not be paid out if the company had a bad year and is struggling.

woodoo

THE MANAGERS GIVING THEMSELVES A BONUS IS PRETTY SICK . I HOPE THE LOWER PAID STAFF STRIKE HARD.

My name is URL

It's specified in their contracts that they would receive a bonus payment so they've every right to expect to get it, whether people find it agreeable or not.

Was it specified in the contracts of certain government advisors that they would be entitled to pay increases which go against the pay cap introduced by the government? I doubt it very much, and yet some of them have been handed substantial pay increases recently.

Deank

Just to set the record straight on this one, the press and Senior Management of EBS have totally misquoted the terms of the EBS employees contracts, it is not a bonus that they were entitled too it was savings.
Each month they had a percentage of their salary deducted by payroll and put aside as savings, they were entitled to get this lump sum back in December, it was up to each individual whether they signed up to the savings scheme and the amount which they contributed.

ejmaztec

There are an awful lot of people who have been made redundant from other financial institutions, who probably wouldn't mind getting back into the industry, and aren't too fussed about bonuses these days.

Teyla Emmagan

Long as I get today's expected interest rate decrease passed on then I don't really care.

It smells of KFC in here, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

tightropetom

starbelgrade wrote: »

The EBS were taken over by AIB earlier this year & the government are 99% owners of the AIB. Under the bailout terms, bonuses are not allowed, so that's why they're not getting an extra month's payment.

And nor should they - no-one in the banks that we've bailed out should be getting bonuses - from the lowest paid to management... it may seem tough coming up to Christmas, but for them to expect us to fund an additional month's salary out of our tax coffers is just absurd.

I don't see them getting a whole lot of sympathy on that front.

They are not missing out on a bonus, they are missing out on wages that they opted to give up over the year so that they could receive them at xmas. They are not being paid out of your tax coffers, they are being paid out of their own earnings.

There are 13 lunar months in a year. Essentially what the company used to do was withhold any pay over 28days per calendar month and store it up as a ’13th’ month so people would have a ‘little extra’ at Xmas. What this decision now amounts to is that they lose 4 weeks pay. Essentially they have been paid less each month, with the excess being put towards this payment of their OWN money back to them. It’s NOT a bonus, but that’s how the media and managers are spinning it. And it’s the lower paid workers who are losing out, not the managers. These front line staff aren’t the ones who ruined this country.

krudler

Deank wrote: »

Just to set the record straight on this one, the press and Senior Management of EBS have totally misquoted the terms of the EBS employees contracts, it is not a bonus that they were entitled too it was savings.
Each month they had a percentage of their salary deducted by payroll and put aside as savings, they were entitled to get this lump sum back in December, it was up to each individual whether they signed up to the savings scheme and the amount which they contributed.

shhhh, facts get in the way of a juicy "bloody bankers!" story, facts shmacts.

fishy fishy

myself and my colleagues haven't even gotten a RAISE for the last three years, never mind any bonuses.

why should people be getting bonuses when we all had to take pay cuts. That doesn't make sense.

what's the point - this country is a laughing stock.

Deank

See the post above it's not a bonus, it's savings which were deducted monthly and due to the staff in December.

MagicSean

fishy fishy wrote: »

myself and my colleagues haven't even gotten a RAISE for the last three years, never mind any bonuses.

why should people be getting bonuses when we all had to take pay cuts. That doesn't make sense.

what's the point - this country is a laughing stock.

Can you not even read the few posts before yours?

rasper

imagine its fairly easy to make out if per contract is €x /13, then they should get it however it sounds like a xmas bonus which should not be paid to a bankrupt company, my own non loss making company axed overtime, sick pay, christmas bonuses, christmas party and anything else in2008-09 that cost anything

starbelgrade

tightropetom wrote: »

These front line staff aren’t the ones who ruined this country.

"Front line" staff? They're desk job workers.

You make it sound like they work in a frigging war zone.

Sir Oxman

tightropetom wrote: »

They are not missing out on a bonus, they are missing out on wages that they opted to give up over the year so that they could receive them at xmas. They are not being paid out of your tax coffers, they are being paid out of their own earnings.

Allow me to explain. There are 13 lunar months in a year. Essentially what the company used to do was withhold any pay over 28days per calendar month and store it up as a ’13th’ month so people would have a ‘little extra’ at Xmas. What this decision now amounts to is that they lose 4 weeks pay. Essentially they have been paid less each month, with the excess being put towards this payment of their OWN money back to them. It’s NOT a bonus, but that’s how the media and managers are spinning it. And it’s the lower paid workers who are losing out, not the managers. These front line staff aren’t the ones who ruined this country.

So, wait a minute.
People who worked are paid monthly. Some agreed to put the excess on 28days pay into an internal savings plan for xmas and now are not getting their own money back but senior management are?

WTF?
RTE are not reporting this at all (I'm not doubting you but the reports are totally out of kilter with what you've said)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1207/ebs.html

Nowhere in that does it say it is a portion of a workers actual earned salary - if what you're saying is true than that is nothing but robbery.

stoneill

ejmaztec wrote: »

There will be thousands of people rioting outside the ESB headquarters, screaming "bastards!" and heaving bricks through the windows.

I will sell those bricks at €10 each.

starbelgrade

gambiaman wrote: »

Nowhere in that does it say it is a portion of a workers actual earned salary - if what you're saying is true than that is nothing but robbery.

It's not true. He just made that up.

Even Unite - the trade union for EBS workers - recognise that this is not the case... Union official Colm Quinlan yesterday said "workers considered the payment a built-in payroll savings scheme to subsidise extra expenses at this time of year."

Now while they may have considered it a built-in payroll savings scheme, that doesn't mean that it actually is one.

This is a simple case of workers throwing their toys out of the pram because they're not getting any bonus this year.

DoesNotCompute

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Sure we have to have electricity like, y'know?

FAIL

krudler

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not true. He just made that up.

Even Unite - the trade union for EBS workers - recognise that this is not the case... Union official Colm Quinlan yesterday said "workers considered the payment a built-in payroll savings scheme to subsidise extra expenses at this time of year."

Now while they may have considered it a built-in payroll savings scheme, that doesn't mean that it actually is one.

This is a simple case of workers throwing their toys out of the pram because they're not getting any bonus this year.

well if anyone here was in the same boat they'd be pissed too. especially if they were contributing wages towards it all year. dunno what to believe now.

Deank

Right so Star, lets say you do enter a scheme with your employer to put aside €200 a month over 12 months from you salary and for the savings to paid in one lump sum in Dec, and then your employer turns around in Dec and says sorry your not getting it, do you not consider that robbery, your employer has just taken €2,400 of your hard earned cash!!!

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not true. He just made that up.

Even Unite - the trade union for EBS workers - recognise that this is not the case... Union official Colm Quinlan yesterday said "workers considered the payment a built-in payroll savings scheme to subsidise extra expenses at this time of year."

Now while they may have considered it a built-in payroll savings scheme, that doesn't mean that it actually is one.

This is a simple case of workers throwing their toys out of the pram because they're not getting any bonus this year.

oldyouth

Deank wrote: »

Just to set the record straight on this one, the press and Senior Management of EBS have totally misquoted the terms of the EBS employees contracts, it is not a bonus that they were entitled too it was savings.
Each month they had a percentage of their salary deducted by payroll and put aside as savings, they were entitled to get this lump sum back in December, it was up to each individual whether they signed up to the savings scheme and the amount which they contributed.

Now if that's the case, it is a totally different thing altogether. The money belonged to the staff and they are entitled to it back.

I'm not hearing this side of things anywhere though

Deank

Ask anyone who works in EBS, it is fact, they are being robbed, Senior Management have put a spin on the whole thing to make it sound like a bonus payment when it it actually savings.

oldyouth wrote: »

Now if that's the case, it is a totally different thing altogether. The money belonged to the staff and they are entitled to it back.

I'm not hearing this side of things anywhere though

starbelgrade

Deank wrote: »

Right so Star, lets say you do enter a scheme with your employer to put aside €200 a month over 12 months from you salary and for the savings to paid in one lump sum in Dec, and then your employer turns around in Dec and says sorry your not getting it, do you not consider that robbery, your employer has just taken €2,400 of your hard earned cash!!!

True - but no such payment scheme actually existed in EBS.

Deank

And you have that on good authority do you, there was / is such a scheme, whether it's actually called a savings scheme or not I cannot verify.

Are you Senior Management in EBS???

The fact is that the staff if the so wished too had a sum of money deducted from their monthly salary which was to be paid back to them in December.

starbelgrade wrote: »

True - but no such payment scheme actually existed in EBS.

Snakeblood

Deank wrote: »

And you have that on good authority do you, there was / is such a scheme, whether it's actually called a savings scheme or not I cannot verify.

Are you Senior Management in EBS???

The fact is that the staff if the so wished too had a sum of money deducted from their monthly salary which was to be paid back to them in December.

So you were able to opt out of the deduction and receive it throughout the year?

gigino

Should an insolvent small building society, which does nothing now for the taxpayer but absorb a bailout of over 2 billion euro - not just be wound up like their comrades in Anglo ?
Should not people who helped wreck the economy have their wages ( which go up to € 380,000 ) cut by 10% instead of getting their usual one month salary Xmas bonus ? What other perks do they have we do not hear about ?

Deank

There is an option in their contracts where they can specify an amount to be deducted from payroll monthly which they would get back in December.

Not sure if you could opt out once you signed up for the scheme as i don't work for EBS but know someone who does and is effected by this debacle.

Snakeblood wrote: »

So you were able to opt out of the deduction and receive it throughout the year?

Snakeblood

Deank wrote: »

There is an option in their contracts where they can specify a monthly amount to be deducted from payroll monthly which they would get back in December.

Not sure if you could opt out once you signed up for the scheme as i don't work for EBS but know someone who does and is effected by this debacle.

I'm a bit confused how EBS can break a contract then.

MagicSean

Fbjm wrote: »

They're not... **** it I give up :rolleyes:

Did your daddy not tell you he was getting his 13th month payment?

Deank

Eh they are getting it - FACT.

Fbjm wrote: »

upper management aren't getting it.

Snakeblood

Snakeblood wrote: »

I'm a bit confused how EBS can break a contract then.

According to this:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1208/1224308742888.html

STAFF AT the EBS have been told they will not receive an annual Christmas bonus of up to €5,000 per person as the Government’s bailout deal with Allied Irish Banks, the building society’s new owner, prohibits bonus payments.

Well, if it's lose bonus or lose job, suck it up, I guess.

stovelid

Fbjm wrote: »

Funny actually, they were on the news yesterday and wanted to make a fuss, but dad got the place to shut and disable the blinds, thus a reporter standing outside a seemingly calm building. Union epic-fails :cool:

"Dad" sounds like a bit of a cunt?

rich1874

Pretty black and white to me, if it's in their contract and they are expecting it as part of their salary them of course they should get it, anyone who argues otherwise obviously doesn't know how a signed a contract works. If it's not guaranteed or is not in their contract then of course they shouldn't get it.

Anybody know what the actual contract says?

rich1874

Fbjm wrote: »

Because he made necessary cuts? I get where you're coming from and actually pulled him up on it last night when he was telling myself and mom. Not like I could do anything about it though, and besides the cuts were necessary.

How muc does you dad get a year? Is he getting a bonus?

stovelid

Fbjm wrote: »

Because he made necessary cuts?

Not at all. It's his job.

I meant the other stunt I quoted and the seemingly gleeful way in which it was related.

COYW

gigino wrote: »

IIn fact very few people in the country ever had the taxpayer giving them a bonus at Christmas time.

Except for people who were in the following categories pre 2009 :

You will get a Christmas Bonus if you are getting one of the following social welfare payments:

Back to Work Allowance
Back to Education Allowance
Blind Pension
Carer's Allowance
Half-rate Carer's Allowance
Carer’s Benefit
Deserted Wife's Benefit
Deserted Wife’s Allowance
Prisoner's Wife's Allowance
Disability Allowance
Farm Assist
Guardian’s payments - formerly called Orphan’s Pension or Allowance
Invalidity Pension
Jobseeker’s Allowance (long-term) - formerly called Unemployment Assistance
One-Parent Family Payment
Pre-Retirement Allowance
Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's (Contributory) Pension
Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's (Non-Contributory) Pension
State Pension (Contributory) - formerly called Old Age (Contributory) Pension
State Pension (Non-Contributory) - formerly called Old Age (Non-Contributory) Pension
State Pension (Transition) - formerly called Retirement Pension
Disablement Pension
Death Benefit by way of pension.

Fbjm wrote: »

How is it a fact? I was told none of the upper managers have got it for years

That is true, it was done away with for higher level managers years ago.

El Weirdo

Jesus, I'm not sure which side I should be rabbling on in this one.

On the one hand, you got people saying that it's workers' salaries that have effectively been withheld as part of some Christmas club saving scheme. Although these people haven't provided links to back this up.

On the other hand you've got people saying that these payments are bonuses that are prohibited under the government bailout. Unfortunately the links backing these claims up are from RTE and the Irish Times who, after recent developments concerning a certain PR company, I am not feeling too inclined to believe.

What to do.

MagicSean

Fbjm wrote: »

>.> easy there, no point in getting abrasive...

You're the one that came on laughing and bragging about how your dad was the one who has put these people under massive financial pressure for Christmas.

Freddie59

rich1874 wrote: »

Pretty black and white to me, if it's in their contract and they are expecting it as part of their salary them of course they should get it, anyone who argues otherwise obviously doesn't know how a signed a contract works. If it's not guaranteed or is not in their contract then of course they shouldn't get it.

Anybody know what the actual contract says?

Very far from black and white actually. Their contract was with a previous entity, which was bankrupt and no longer viable.