EBS building soc workers want annual Xmas bonus

pretty-in-pink

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Why are all the figures different?

It does not help when you are your colleagues lie about it being a bonus then throw around lots of different figures.

You blame management and higher ups, but you can't even settle on figures in your own posts, where is the honesty there?

Because everyone is on a different wage...the average, as i stated is 1500-1800 a month. The bonus is less then a months wage. Without looking at my payslip from last year, I cannot remember what i got last year after tax. I've been using figures that are around the average, and also semi-easy maths wise to breakdown

The tax on the decemeber pay is quite high, so i gave a rough figure. Would you post your exact wages here? or would you give an average?

The Waltzing Consumer

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Because everyone is on a different wage...the average, as i stated is 1500-1800 a month. The bonus is less then a months wage. Without looking at my payslip from last year, I cannot remember what i got last year after tax. I've been using figures that are around the average, and also semi-easy maths wise to breakdown

The tax on the decemeber pay is quite high, so i gave a rough figure. Would you post your exact wages here? or would you give an average?

Eh, I don't know averages for where I work. All I know is that unions and publicly owned companies are first class bullshi**ers when it comes to discussing their wage. They feed you all the lines and forget many things.

So we will see what you did. Are you saying 1500-1800 is net or gross salary a month?

Oh and I would not have a clue what average wage is. I know starting wage for my company, that's it. 22k, but I ain't doing what your union or the PS does. 22k is the gross salary. I don't include giving net salary after taxes, levies, mortgage payments, travel etc.,

The only figure you should be giving is your advertised stated gross salary.

pretty-in-pink

advertised gross is around 1800 a month. advertised yearly gross is given as 23k. Now if you multiply 1800 by 12, you get 21.6k, which leaves 1400 for the christmas pay- which they have withheld.

So its a pay cut of 1400, with 3 days notice. Public or private employment is surely irrelevant when it comes to just cutting someones pay like that. Every other company that has recieved a pay cut, got more then 3 days notice (and im being genorous saying its 3 days. We found out on tuesday afternoon, it was due to be paid early hours friday morning)

TheZohanS

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Yes and no- it is put as a bonus in our contract, however its also classed as being a guaranteed part of our annual package. In so far as it states on our wage documentation we earn say 23k, split into 12 payments of 1800, and an extra pay in december of 1400. So they are classing it as both.

Ah here there's no "yes and no", it's down in your contract as a bonus, all bonuses have now been stopped so you're not getting your bonus this year. Bonuses were supposed to be stopped a couple of years ago so at least you had those. The fact that you're not getting paid a bonus is no reflection on you guys as workers, no doubt you're all working your asses off. At least your employers are offering you an interest free loan, can't really think of any other employers that do that. I hope the AIB restructuring that will inevitably happen in the New Year won't have an impact on you.

However your colleagues that came on here and told lies that it wasn't a bonus should be ashamed of themselves.

The Waltzing Consumer

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

advertised gross is around 1800 a month. advertised yearly gross is given as 23k. Now if you multiply 1800 by 12, you get 21.6k, which leaves 1400 for the christmas pay- which they have withheld.

So its a pay cut of 1400, with 3 days notice. Public or private employment is surely irrelevant when it comes to just cutting someones pay like that. Every other company that has recieved a pay cut, got more then 3 days notice (and im being genorous saying its 3 days. We found out on tuesday afternoon, it was due to be paid early hours friday morning)

Okay, now that is the "average" your union has got you to peddle out. The problem is, we don't know if you are being honest.

You yourself state you get 1620 as a bonus, so it is still confusing as what you get is not what you state as that is clearly above 1400.

You also said in a post earlier that the bonus was 1500 as average. Now it's 1400.

Cone on, I call lies.

Make love not war

TheZohan wrote: »

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Yes and no- it is put as a bonus in our contract, however its also classed as being a guaranteed part of our annual package. In so far as it states on our wage documentation we earn say 23k, split into 12 payments of 1800, and an extra pay in december of 1400. So they are classing it as both.

Ah here there's no "yes and no", it's down in your contract as a bonus, all bonuses have now been stopped so you're not getting your bonus this year. Bonuses were supposed to be stopped a couple of years ago so at least you had those. The fact that you're not getting paid a bonus is no reflection on you guys as workers, no doubt you're all working your asses off. At least your employers are offering you an interest free loan, can't really think of any other employers that do that. I hope the AIB restructuring that will inevitably happen in the New Year won't have an impact on you.

However your colleagues that came on here and told lies that it wasn't a bonus should be ashamed of themselves.

If your referring to me I'm not ashamed at all. If you read the comments correctly you will see it's included in her annual package.
If you look up the definition of a bonus it something given in addition to what is expected. There's nothing additional about this! I said before its not preformance related it's included in our pay.
they call it a bonus on one page and call it our salary on another.

TheZohanS

Make love not war wrote: »

If your referring to me I'm not ashamed at all. If you read the comments correctly you will see it's included in her annual package.
If you look up the definition of a bonus it something given in addition to what is expected. There's nothing additional about this! I said before its not preformance related it's included in our pay.
they call it a bonus on one page and call it our salary on another.

I've seen the quote from YOUR contract, it's a bonus. It is defined under your contract as a bonus, it is not included in your salary, it IS in addition to your salary. So now you're saying there's another page?

Jesus, give it a rest. :rolleyes:

The Waltzing Consumer

Make love not war wrote: »

If your referring to me I'm not ashamed at all. If you read the comments correctly you will see it's included in her annual package.
If you look up the definition of a bonus it something given in addition to what is expected. There's nothing additional about this! I said before its not preformance related it's included in our pay.
they call it a bonus on one page and call it our salary on another.

you ain't helping. There has been so much lies and spin put out by this union, you only got yourselves to blame. Even your colleague in the three past pages has told us different figures, different averages, trying to include taxes and general bull. I don't blame her, she obviously just takes the line peddled by the union.

You guys should be ashamed.

Make love not war

TheZohan wrote: »

Make love not war wrote: »

If your referring to me I'm not ashamed at all. If you read the comments correctly you will see it's included in her annual package.
If you look up the definition of a bonus it something given in addition to what is expected. There's nothing additional about this! I said before its not preformance related it's included in our pay.
they call it a bonus on one page and call it our salary on another.

I've seen the quote from YOUR contract, it's a bonus. It is defined under your contract as a bonus, it is not included in your salary, it IS in addition to your salary. So now you're saying there's another page?

Jesus, give it a rest. :rolleyes:

You haven't seen a quote from MY contract!!!!!

Read her comments it's in her salary and then wrote down as a bonus underneath that's what she means by yes and no!!!!

It's NOT in addition to MY pay...... It's included in my salary.

I don't even know why I'm bothering replying.

The Waltzing Consumer

Make love not war wrote: »

You haven't seen a quote from MY contract!!!!!

Read her comments it's in her salary and then wrote down as a bonus underneath that's what she means by yes and no!!!!

It's NOT in addition to MY pay...... It's included in my salary.

I don't even know why I'm bothering replying.

these guys are brilliant. Okay, obvious question. In your contract, is there any mention of the word bonus or christmas bonus?

Note: we have already found out some of these guys have been lying so the chance of an honest answer is questionable.

pretty-in-pink

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

you ain't helping. There has been so much lies and spin put out by this union, you only got yourselves to blame. Even your colleague in the three past pages has told us different figures, different averages, trying to include taxes and general bull. I don't blame her, she obviously just takes the line peddled by the union.

You guys should be ashamed.

NOBODY has told ANYBODY to "peddle a salary". Infact the amounts given by union people said that the satff affected earn no more then 30k. I dont earn even near that amount. A lot of other people are in the same boat.

Do not tell me, or my co-workers, that "we should be ashamed". Go research the thing, and when you've read/seen it all (the 31 pages here, the news articles, the videos) then form your opinion. At the moment it seems you only want to attack people, with no real idea about the issue. You can call "lies" all you want, thats your opinion.

Make love not war

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Make love not war wrote: »

If your referring to me I'm not ashamed at all. If you read the comments correctly you will see it's included in her annual package.
If you look up the definition of a bonus it something given in addition to what is expected. There's nothing additional about this! I said before its not preformance related it's included in our pay.
they call it a bonus on one page and call it our salary on another.

you ain't helping. There has been so much lies and spin put out by this union, you only got yourselves to blame. Even your colleague in the three past pages has told us different figures, different averages, trying to include taxes and general bull. I don't blame her, she obviously just takes the line peddled by the union.

You guys should be ashamed.

If anything she hasn't taken anything from the union she quoted her contract which the union haven't done.

She wasn't given you exact figures she using basic numbers to save confusing we're all on different salaries. You couldn't answer her either when she asked you the same question.

There's over 300 employees this effects we all have similar contracts but employed at different times so I'm sure they differ slightly. I can only speak for myself.
I said before I'm under no illusion here I don't think we'll get this back. It just could of been handle better. My anger is towards management who no one seems to care about them getting their fat pay cheques.

We've every right to go to court and strike.

The Waltzing Consumer

Make love not war wrote: »

We've every right to go to court and strike.

good luck to you, a sh** bank which should have been thrown in the tip, rescued by Government and spoilt workers have a hissy fit when their bonus is taken away from you.

Expect much sypmathy.

Frank Black

TheZohan wrote: »

I've seen the quote from YOUR contract, it's a bonus. It is defined under your contract as a bonus, it is not included in your salary, it IS in addition to your salary. So now you're saying there's another page?

Jesus, give it a rest. :rolleyes:

I think ye're being a bit unfair, there's a difference between a discretionary bonus and a contractual one. The contract clause quoted would imply to me that workers are entitled to the payment - if it had been called an additional December 'payment' would it have been stopped?

Having said that, I do think salary reductions in failing companies are pretty normal, but it is a disgrace that management seem to be avoiding this due to the different wording of their contracts.

I think EBS workers would receive more support if they had striked on the basis that mangement weren't sharing the pain, rather than for re-in statement of their bonus.

Make love not war

black francis wrote: »

TheZohan wrote: »

I've seen the quote from YOUR contract, it's a bonus. It is defined under your contract as a bonus, it is not included in your salary, it IS in addition to your salary. So now you're saying there's another page?

Jesus, give it a rest. :rolleyes:

I think ye're being a bit unfair, there's a difference between a discretionary bonus and a contractual one. The contract clause quoted would imply to me that workers are entitled to the payment - if it had been called an additional December 'payment' would it have been stopped?

Having said that, I do think salary reductions in failing companies are pretty normal, but it is a disgrace that management seem to be avoiding this due to the different wording of their contracts.

I think EBS workers would receive more support if they had striked on the basis that mangement weren't sharing the pain, rather than for re-in statement of their bonus.

Black Francis I totally agree with you.
For myself that's what I'd like to see happen. It's not going to be reinstated but the managers should feel the hit too not get salary increases!!!

TheZohanS

Make love not war wrote: »

Black Francis I totally agree with you.
For myself that's what I'd like to see happen. It's not going to be reinstated but the managers should feel the hit too not get salary increases!!!

I support you in your strike. I will boycott all EBS products and services in future and suggest that you strike and stay striking until such time that they reinstate your bonus/salary-dohickey.

That will show them.

pretty-in-pink

TheZohan wrote: »

I support you in your strike. I will boycott all EBS products and services in future and suggest that you strike and stay striking until such time that they reinstate your bonus/salary-dohickey.

That will show them.

God help me but i can't feel offended by you. Actually you're quite funny.

I thank you for your support

amdublin

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

I will quote the relevent part for you:

Salary:
Your salary is X per annum, payable on a monthly basis. The society operates a system of performance related pay for all new clerical staff, and your salary will be reviewed under prp on an annual basis.

Christmas Bonus:
You will be paid a bonus during december each year, on the basis of 1 weeks basic salary per 3 months or part thereof worked during the course of he year. If you leave the societys employmentbefore the due payment date of bonus in december, you will not be entitled to either a full or pro-rata bonus payment for that year.

Gainshare
Paid in march, based on company performance, between 0-3% of base salary

Dudes (ESB workers) it's quite clear here it's a Bonus.

You're barking up the wrong tree tbh.

Frank Black

Make love not war wrote: »

Black Francis I totally agree with you.
For myself that's what I'd like to see happen. It's not going to be reinstated but the managers should feel the hit too not get salary increases!!!

If they had any sense of social solidarity, the managers should take a voluntary pay cut that would match yours (around 7%). Even better, they could agree to pay the amount into a joint account and use it for social outings - I bet it would add up to a bit.

After all, they bear far more responsibility for the mess the company is in than you guys, and it would demonstrate that you were all in it together, not to mention improving staff morale and therefore productivity.

Won't hold my breath for you though.

The Waltzing Consumer

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Do not tell me, or my co-workers, that "we should be ashamed". Go research the thing, and when you've read/seen it all (the 31 pages here, the news articles, the videos) then form your opinion. At the moment it seems you only want to attack people, with no real idea about the issue. You can call "lies" all you want, thats your opinion.

That's pretty admirable, but it took around 30 pages of this thread before you guys would admit the word bonus was real, that it describes this payment. You have then thrown around all types of figures and "averages" and they change post to post.

So it would be lovely to see the truth in this tale, but you and others have confused the hell out of it with half-truths, lies and different figures, only yourselves to blame really.

BlueSmoker

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

That's pretty admirable, but it took around 30 pages of this thread before you guys would admit the word bonus was real, that it describes this payment. You have then thrown around all types of figures and "averages" and they change post to post.

So it would be lovely to see the truth in this tale, but you and others have confused the hell out of it with half-truths, lies and different figures, only yourselves to blame really.

I've watched this thread with alot of interest over the last while, Why because I care for my mother and she needs to deal with them as it is her bank. 9/10 it has being the best service I have ever got in a bank, and I would like to congratulate the staff on helping me, help a customer of theirs, they have being outstanding in all honesty.

Ok I now understand what the contracts say, and in fairness they say what they say, which is bonus, really sorry guys

One thing I do have a major problem with though and I see no one complaining about, is why are the managers getting this payment anyway, obviously their contracts were worded differently, but was it not the managers that oked the mortgage's/loans or if not sent them through to head office knowing they should have being more closely looked at (10 times anyones annual salary and no desposit, their is no way anyone can pay that mortgage.

I think as usual we are complaining about and attack the lowest common level, because we are use to it. when then penny hasn't even fallen that far yet.

Hence why I think we all should get a bloody bonus, If the EBS Managers can manage to work 56 weeks in a year, then by hell the rest of us have

Freddie59

BlueSmoker wrote: »

One thing I do have a major problem with though and I see no one complaining about, is why are the managers getting this payment anyway

If you read the rest of the thread you will see almost 100% against management receiving this payment.

BlueSmoker

Freddie59 wrote: »

If you read the rest of the thread you will see almost 100% against management receiving this payment.

Oh I agree with you 100% are against the management receiving this payment, but that wasn't the point of my post, which I believe I made quite clear, we glanced over that the management are getting this payment, disagreed that they should, and then left it. Then decided to bagger the worker who aren't getting the bonus. It all seems abit school yardish to me and very much the way us Irish deal with things, we come across as being disgrunted towards our equals while being never dareing to speak above our station (or towards the people in charge). Just saying maybe we should be wondering Why the management are getting this payment

Freddie59

BlueSmoker wrote: »

Just saying maybe we should be wondering Why the management are getting this payment

As I pointed earlier - another Golden Circle in operation.

And don't forget the salaries that some full-time Union reps are on in comparison to those they represent. How can these people relate to those workers who earn way less than them? Yet another example of all that is wrong with this country.

gigino

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

good luck to you, a sh** bank which should have been thrown in the tip, rescued by Government and spoilt workers have a hissy fit when their bonus is taken away from you.

Expect much sypmathy.

I have not read the entire thread, but have read most of it. The impression given by the employees is that they are relatively "badly paid", and they are looking for sympathy. ( not un-naturally if they are on 21k etc ).

Contrast the position in Irish Life, another sort of a small financial instution " rescued" by the taxpayer. Its widely known that in 2010 its 4340 staff got paid an average pay and pension renumeration of 65,000 euro. Thats even reported in the editorial on page 4 of the January issue of BusinessPlus magazine.

Anyone got stats on what the average pay in EBS is so we the taxpaer can evaluate if a months bonus should be paid ? If average salary is the same in EBS as in Irish life ( 65k a year ) , I do not think most people would support the months bonus, for the workers of this institution which after all along with Anglo etc has helped wreck the country through reckless lending.

Papio

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A job may decide not to pay you for a months work if they don't feel like it? Eh, no. The can only do that with a bonus, not wages.



If there was a shred of truth in this, it would be a a glaring breach of employment law and struck down by the courts at the very first opportunity. No "reputable" company would be so stupid as to try pull a stunt like that.



Anyone who works for a bankrupt company and still somehow expects a months wages as a discretionary christmas bonus, is a fúcking idiot.



Exactly. Savings scheme my arse. That's laughable!
They aren't getting a bonus cos they don't deserve one, plain and simple, it's that sense of entitlement that has this country fúcked. If you weren't being kept alive artificially with tax payers money, you'd all be on the fúcking dole. Is that not bonus enough for you, you've all gotten a 12 month bonus this year, does it not smack of greed to expect a 13th?:mad:

I dont know where you get off,i am an ebs employee who works for no other reason than to feed my two children without having to go on the '****ing dole' which i no doubt have contributed more towards than you have over the past ten years- both my parents worked their whole lives as have the rest of my family, to now get by on pittence and be shafted days before christmas- i have worked there now for coming up to 5 years and now my annual salary(as shown in my contract might i add) has gone from just over 23k to below 21.5k and yet there's no mention of any contract change, but im supposed to be happy no?i couldnt care less about the banking crisis or where i work as long as i can feed my kids and live somewhat comfortably from the earnings of the 40 hour week i work, but you big man want to speak of greed is it?let me guess... you are one of these with a rented out house that you now have to add extra to every month to meet your payments?feeling a little bitter is it?!its the greed of the nation that has got the banks where they are i've watched it unfold with my own eyes-funny how people 4 and 5 years ago who looked down their noses at you because they had 7 rented properties making a little off each for themselves are now the ones crying-karmas a bitch no?!!!So explain how the head honchos still get the 'bonus'? when people like myself who make none of the decisions and come to work to earn a living and get the grief of 'being kept alive artificially with tax payers money' everyday from mouths like yourself dont!all nice when ebs and aib are seen on the same level now in the media after they've amalgamated but i can guarantee that anyone who has worked for aib for the last 5 years is on a hell of alot more than i am-some kick in the teeth- but hey i should just go sign on instead no?might see you there with some of my other shafted colleagues!

DonQuay1

starbelgrade wrote: »

The EBS were taken over by AIB earlier this year & the government are 99% owners of the AIB. Under the bailout terms, bonuses are not allowed, so that's why they're not getting an extra month's payment.

And nor should they - no-one in the banks that we've bailed out should be getting bonuses - from the lowest paid to management... it may seem tough coming up to Christmas, but for them to expect us to fund an additional month's salary out of our tax coffers is just absurd.

And their response to this is? The threat of an all out strike.

I don't see them getting a whole lot of sympathy on that front.

Bonus = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance-related_pay

You know what? They were getting these ginormous bonus'ssssss when they were in 'the private sector' - even the lowliest of the workers got them! 'The private sector' never complained about because it suited 'the private sector' - then. I believe that the private sector is totally above reproach about anything!!
And yet - 'the private sector' slags off the public sector as if they are holier than thou! Now that the bankers have all joined 'the public sector' .... 'the private sector' can slag off 'the public sector' again as 'these private sector' workers try to hang onto their so called productivity bonus'ssssssssss!! I'm sure that they're all worth their bonus'ssssssss - even the frontline workers on the desk who constantly carp on about their low wage but still give terrible service to the paying public. They'll get worse - now that they're in 'the public sector'!!

Papio

ARMAHGARD dude either u are well ignorant or u are just flat out retarded.. see the whole point of what i typed out before was to indicate that it isnt a bonus.. but apparently u have issues trying to understand written text so ill try and simple it out for u.

Let me put it in reeeeealll easy terms so no brainer tools like urself can understand what is trying to be said:

my salary as stated in the contract I signed 5 years ago is 23.2k gross per year (NO BONUS FUGGOT), which divided by 12 is 1933 gross per month, BUT i only receive 1784 gross per month. Now smart arse try multiplying that 1784 by 13 and see what comes up.. no that isnt a bonus that is what i signed upto as yearly pay. Now come again, WASTER YE.

And ur going on about tax as if im exempt from tax.. i pay just as much tax as u do (if ur not on the dole leeching off my paid tax, usually dont mind but in ur case i would like to exempt u personally) and so do both my working parents and so do all the other working siblings from my family, so dont give me that whole "WE" bailed u out cuz that we includes me just as much as you if not more so cuz now im getting cheated out of what it said i would earn a year.. and what u think i profited from the bubble i never took out any 100% morgage i didnt sign up for 5 houses i never did any of that but still its my fault on my 23k salary, while a few years ago ppl like u came in looking down the nose at me cuz i was in a "****ty job".. my 13th pay has never been performance related in anyway it was just my salary as stated in my contract they just somehow split it over 13 months cuz they pay every 25th of the month and obviously from one 25th to the next 25th isnt always the same amount of working days/hours so they balance it out at the end of the year.. but sure its a bonus right? haha ur too much go back to school dip****. So but me on 23k shud just get scammed out of a wage pay i worked for all year while my managers get them eitherway and they would be much more involved in the decision makings of the bank.. ye man ur right this was the right thing to do and u know it all dont ye.

I personally just find it ridiculous that im getting stick for going to work day in day out in a regular job and my wage is slashed with no prior notice and im down to 21k after 5 years of service, and then u have some boards.ie superhero who'll feckin tell me why i shud be happy or why its my fault the economy collapsed.. ye not really because again i never milked the loans and i didnt decide who got one or not i just followed the protocols of my employer so u can go ahead and blame the "customer service agents of EBS" cuz thats pretty much all we are u ask info and we provide it, again i dont decide what the protocols are for giving out loans i just follow them. But jackall knowing smart arses whine about how u get **** service at the banks.. its a job end of the day if my employers pays me poorly then i will perform equal to what im being rewarded with, why would i care about u at all its obvious u sleaveenes dont care about the working class ppl being duped by their employers who are the banks either, hypocrit C**T.

The world of today is just unbelievable and im really not surprised were getting nailed like this by our own government.. the general public is full of guys like u, know nothing about anything just follow the trends and achieve absolutely nothing at all except waste oxygen with their blabbering, why dont u just go on and die and let somebody half usefull have it, ur an embarrasment to the irish society and ur ancestors who fought for this to be a republic.. selfish eeejit.

dr.bollocko

^^^
Banned.
See little point in going over this again.